There’s no way Putin is losing face now, this is his moment something he’s been wanting ever since he got power, could see things getting very bad.
Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion
- Thread starter Wednesday at Stoke
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Hadn't read about that. Wouldn't that make you a deserter unable to return to your family in Russia afterwards? And a POW currently? Fecking horrible situation to be (put) in if you're not supporting the war.
Well it's their right to die defending their country in a hopeless cause, i just hope they don't. It's not worth thousand of lives only to be invaded anyway.
I can't see the win here but hopefully I'm wrong and they somehow deter Russian forces.
The problem is US ic just lost any credibility since 03. They might regain a bit with this crisis.
Protests in St-Petersburg, Moscow, Nizhny Novgorod... Go on lads!
Whatever happens, there's no way back for him now. He has crossed the Rubicon and will never be accepted by the international community and will be regarded as the pariah that he is. No industrialized country will want to do business with Russia until he is removed.
Unfortunately there is going to have to come a time where someone calls Putin's bluff. Nobody wants war. And certainly nobody wants nuclear war, but unless you are prepared to accept the alternative of Russia (or any other nuclear power) simply doing whatever the feck they want without contestation, then there must come a point where you say "no".
Putin has threatened nuclear war on anyone who intervenes.
Putin has threatened that banning Russia from SWIFT will be seen as a declaration of war.
Putin has multiple times referenced Russia's nuclear armament.
Much like the boy who cried wolf, he has figured out that as long as you cry "nukes", the rest of the world tends to just idly by, for fear of him following through. It doesnt work. You let him go unchallenged and - just like with Hitler - he gets bolder and bolder. A clear red line needs to be drawn, and the west needs to be willing (or at least to give the impression that they are willing) to enforce those lines militarily.
Putin has threatened nuclear war on anyone who intervenes.
Putin has threatened that banning Russia from SWIFT will be seen as a declaration of war.
Putin has multiple times referenced Russia's nuclear armament.
Much like the boy who cried wolf, he has figured out that as long as you cry "nukes", the rest of the world tends to just idly by, for fear of him following through. It doesnt work. You let him go unchallenged and - just like with Hitler - he gets bolder and bolder. A clear red line needs to be drawn, and the west needs to be willing (or at least to give the impression that they are willing) to enforce those lines militarily.
Ura
I don't think the Chinese, Indians or anyone in Asia/Africa will have a problem. Also tbf, the EU are still buying his gas and oil.
Putins fecked in the world stage, he needs to be whacked or humiliated enough to step down before he brings on a nuclear armgageddon
He wouldn't want his own country to become a wasteland either. I don't think any major superpower will deploy nukes unless from a defensive position. It's all just hot air.
If there is one thing we have learned from recent military histary, people do not give up their countries easily. The longer it goes, the worse it is for Putin.
I'm surprised I have to answer these questions tbh.
Boris just said Aeroflot will be banned from UK.
It works both ways. NATO has plenty of nuclear weapons of it's own. If they ban Russia from SWIFT (which I think they should do), what's he going to do about it? If he attacks a NATO country, NATO HAS to intervene militarily, otherwise it ceases to exist. He won't win a fight with NATO, it'll be a war with no winners.
Hear hear.
Keir Stamier is calling for that in no uncertain words, strong words from Keir but I do wonder if cutting off the gas supply just now is a viable option.
How? No one wants a nuclear conflict over Ukraine. Talking tough is pretty limited when you have to do something for it to work. Russia wants whatever it wants in Ukraine far more than everyone else wants to end the world over it.
May they keep on pushing. We need more of those for as long as it will take.
That is so American. I don't even notice stuff like that anymore.
Which could now give United the legal excuse to end the deal.
He’s basically using any excuse possible to justify it all.de-Nazification.
I really didn't expect that level of lunacy.
Thanks for the update
Utter insanity. Every word.
Where are seeing this? Verified or not?
This may be the only thing that manages to stop Putin is if the Russian public turn against him
Swift ban not in the sanctions?
Boris just said it was not off the table.
Boris just said it was not off the table.
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Countries and companies kept purchasing oil from ISIS, Lafarge was effectively paying them to keep factories working. Russia's oil and gas will be purchased by the same countries, they will just hide it a little bit.
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Schalke have a different position, financially it's a very brave call, given that they are all but bankrupt already and that's with Gazprom paying significantly over market value. Though on the other many will say they never should have done this deal to begin with.
Nobody wants a nuclear conflict full stop. What makes you so sure that Putin is willing to start WW3 and drop nukes over the fate of Ukraine, any more than NATO/US?
It seems to me that the "tough talk" is coming from one side of this conflict, and that the general reaction has been "best not get involved or Vlad will press the big red button". That logic doesnt hold up to any sort of scrutiny, it is simply appealing to the natural fear of nuclear war and pacifism that most of civilized humanity holds. It is easy to look the other way when it is a country in Eastern Europe. What happens next time? There have already been rumours that Putin might extend his current offensive to Moldova.
Its a simple question: If not now, when?
To be fair the same was also suggested about Bin Salman when he butchered Khashoggi a couple of years ago, but gradually everybody has forgotten and all companies can't wait to do business with him. Granted, Bin Salman was always an ally of the West and Putin has always been seen as an enemy, but these things can't be really set in stone at this stage, especially with a country like Russia which the world would still need to solve a lot of other problems.
Feel free to elaborate.
The only question now is whether or not there are enough people with a conscience within the Kremlin to do what is necessary to stop Putin's madness. When Brezhnev entered severe cognitive decline in the last few years of his life, there was at least an old guard to stop recklessness. As for now, it is very uncertain. Those career officials better start thinking about their future because they could well become targets for the masses if enough angry Russians are willing to tear everything associated with Putin's regime down to the ground.
Over Ukraine, I don't want to find out.
Nor the Pakistanis
I was sent this info about Ukraine by a friend today:
1st in Europe in proven recoverable reserves of uranium ores;
2nd place in Europe and 10th place in the world in terms of titanium ore reserves;
2nd place in the world in terms of explored reserves of manganese ores (2.3 billion tons, or 12% of the world's reserves);
2nd largest iron ore reserves in the world (30 billion tons);
2nd place in Europe in terms of mercury ore reserves;
3rd place in Europe (13th place in the world) in shale gas reserves (22 trillion cubic meters)
4th in the world by the total value of natural resources;
7th place in the world in coal reserves (33.9 billion tons)
Ukraine is an important agricultural country:
1st in Europe in terms of arable land area;
3rd place in the world by the area of black soil (25% of world's volume);
1st place in the world in exports of sunflower and sunflower oil;
2nd place in the world in barley production and 4th place in barley exports;
3rd largest producer and 4th largest exporter of corn in the world;
4th largest producer of potatoes in the world;
5th largest rye producer in the world;
5th place in the world in bee production (75,000 tons);
8th place in the world in wheat exports;
9th place in the world in the production of chicken eggs;
16th place in the world in cheese exports.
Ukraine can meet the food needs of 600 million people.
Ukraine is an important industrialised country:
1st in Europe in ammonia production;
Europe's 2nd’s and the world’s 4th largest natural gas pipeline system;
3rd largest in Europe and 8th largest in the world in terms of installed capacity of nuclear power plants;
3rd place in Europe and 11th in the world in terms of rail network length (21,700 km);
3rd place in the world (after the U.S. and France) in production of locators and locating equipment;
3rd largest iron exporter in the world
4th largest exporter of turbines for nuclear power plants in the world;
4th world's largest manufacturer of rocket launchers;
4th place in the world in clay exports
4th place in the world in titanium exports
8th place in the world in exports of ores and concentrates;
9th place in the world in exports of defence industry products;
10th largest steel producer in the world (32.4 million tons).
I haven't fact checked it all, he had started though and what he checked was true.
Food for thought.
1st in Europe in proven recoverable reserves of uranium ores;
2nd place in Europe and 10th place in the world in terms of titanium ore reserves;
2nd place in the world in terms of explored reserves of manganese ores (2.3 billion tons, or 12% of the world's reserves);
2nd largest iron ore reserves in the world (30 billion tons);
2nd place in Europe in terms of mercury ore reserves;
3rd place in Europe (13th place in the world) in shale gas reserves (22 trillion cubic meters)
4th in the world by the total value of natural resources;
7th place in the world in coal reserves (33.9 billion tons)
Ukraine is an important agricultural country:
1st in Europe in terms of arable land area;
3rd place in the world by the area of black soil (25% of world's volume);
1st place in the world in exports of sunflower and sunflower oil;
2nd place in the world in barley production and 4th place in barley exports;
3rd largest producer and 4th largest exporter of corn in the world;
4th largest producer of potatoes in the world;
5th largest rye producer in the world;
5th place in the world in bee production (75,000 tons);
8th place in the world in wheat exports;
9th place in the world in the production of chicken eggs;
16th place in the world in cheese exports.
Ukraine can meet the food needs of 600 million people.
Ukraine is an important industrialised country:
1st in Europe in ammonia production;
Europe's 2nd’s and the world’s 4th largest natural gas pipeline system;
3rd largest in Europe and 8th largest in the world in terms of installed capacity of nuclear power plants;
3rd place in Europe and 11th in the world in terms of rail network length (21,700 km);
3rd place in the world (after the U.S. and France) in production of locators and locating equipment;
3rd largest iron exporter in the world
4th largest exporter of turbines for nuclear power plants in the world;
4th world's largest manufacturer of rocket launchers;
4th place in the world in clay exports
4th place in the world in titanium exports
8th place in the world in exports of ores and concentrates;
9th place in the world in exports of defence industry products;
10th largest steel producer in the world (32.4 million tons).
I haven't fact checked it all, he had started though and what he checked was true.
Food for thought.
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To be fair you're answering a different question to the one i asked. I wasn't asking why would anyone ever defend their nation.
There's been plenty of surrenders across modern history when defeat looks inevitable.
Which unfortunately, is exactly what Putin is banking on.
Unconfirmed but it does seem Ukraine are quite effective in open battle.
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Yep, and it's a very safe calculation. Obama basically said it in 2016. Ukraine matters far more to Russia than it does to the West when it comes to the prospect of war.
Quite effective the javelin as well.