Ryan Giggs | Interviewed for Wales job

GBBQ said:
I don't buy this, they're 4 points from safety at the moment with half a season to go. 4 teams above Swansea have only won 1 more match than them so we're not talking about a lot of form teams to catch either.

If he does take it on he'll have to accept a large portion of the blame for relegation if it happens.
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It depends on what resources he will be given in January. They are a shambles at the back and don't even have one decent defender.
 
Zoo said:
It depends on what resources he will be given in January. They are a shambles at the back and don't even have one decent defender.
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Agreed but as soon as he signs his name on the dotted line he is accepting the liability. People dont care about the details they remember the result and Giggs should take heed of Neville's career killing spell at Valencia!
 
This Swansea job has Alan Shearer moment of insanity all over it. Giving an inexperienced legend a crack at management when you're in the relegation dogfight is just that, absolutely insane.

Even if Swansea are going to "give it to Giggsy till the end of the season" which I highly doubt will happen, I still think he shouldn't take it as looking at the teams above them they seem dead certs to go down. Even if he may feel like he can go down and try to bring them back up straight away I still think that'll be career suicide considering all the media circus and inevitable statements he'll have to make about working hard to keep them up.

If he wants to make his mark he should take a lower div team and build on it Eddie Howe style instead of taking a team in desperation which would ironically be out of his own desperation to manage in the PL.
 
Should avoid it like the plague. Unless the club have accepted that they're doomed and want to rebuild in the Championship.
 
Seems I am the only one thinking this is actually win win for Giggs: if the Swans go down, they were doomed anyhow. If Giggs keeps them up, what a manager!

It would be a bad appointment from Swansea's viewpoint but perhaps they are thinking long-term?
 
Swansea is the worst team in the league on the basis of current performances. They are going down regardless of who the manager is. If Giggs is offered the job he only needs to decide whether he wants to gain that management experience or would he rather not have relegation with his first job on the CV. IMO, he'd be better of not taking the job even if he's offered. But it would be fun to watch him as a manager. I would certainly watch all Swansea games.
 
Would Swansea really pick Giggs? Considering the fact that Swansea picked Bob Bradley over him before, and that Giggs's interview with them was 'underwhelming',
 
K2K said:
That isn't true at all.

It was Celta Vigo that actually gave Enrique a chance to rebuilt his career. It was only after he had done well there that Barca showed interest. Ancelotti got fired by Real Madrid and Chelsea.After finishing second.He wasnt a total failure at either club. Heck, he wasnt much of failure at either.hes a multiple champions league winner that has had success wherever he's been. Those are poor examples.
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K2K said:
He was fired for finishing second at Juve too.

And did fairly well at Parma. Which reinforcess the point I am making, if you do well at a club but eventually do get fired, the jobs do not necessarily dry up.Its when you are an undeniable failure when they do.
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No, in fact these two examples and what you are saying perfectly illustrate my point - that is the English game is way too brutal and follow the "one strike, or sometimes two strikers, and you're out" type of managerial employment philosophy. Managers are given very little chance to perform and if they get sacked, it will leave a black mark on their CV. They don't get to make comebacks like Ancelotti, Allegri, and Luis Enrique. Ancelotti had rubbish last seasons at Parma and AC Milan, but was still employed by Juventus and Chelsea because the owners trusted his potential.

However, this does not seem to happen as often in England. No matter how much everyone hates David Moyes here, Moyes is a GOOD manager. He took over Everton from Preston North End when Everton was in a terrible shape and facing administration. He kept them in the Premier League, consistently got them to mid-table and sometimes to a European position, and helped Everton become a longstanding Premier League force they are today for Koeman and Martinez. However, after failing at United, no club even wants to employ him now. His decade of achievement at Everton was erased by just 10 months at United. I think he is too big for Sunderland, a club which is in serious mismanagement. Southampton and Watford did not even consider him when they were looking for a manager during the summer. You can't blame the man for being bitter about United when now he has to manage Sunderland. Sunderland isn't giving him transfer funds this January and he is losing players to AFCON. The position at Sunderland is similar to the one at Swansea - a poisoned chalice. There is a high chance that he will fail with Sunderland and everyone will go," See! I told you he is rubbish!" But his club is Sunderland! Moyes could have made a comeback if he were given a job at Southampton or Watford.
 
FahadiHossein said:
No, in fact these two examples and what you are saying perfectly illustrate my point - that is the English game is way too brutal and follow the "one strike, or sometimes two strikers, and you're out" type of managerial employment philosophy. Managers are given very little chance to perform and if they get sacked, it will leave a black mark on their CV. They don't get to make comebacks like Ancelotti, Allegri, and Luis Enrique. Ancelotti had rubbish last seasons at Parma and AC Milan, but was still employed by Juventus and Chelsea because the owners trusted his potential.

However, this does not seem to happen as often in England. No matter how much everyone hates David Moyes here, Moyes is a GOOD manager. He took over Everton from Preston North End when Everton was in a terrible shape and facing administration. He kept them in the Premier League, consistently got them to mid-table and sometimes to a European position, and helped Everton become a longstanding Premier League force they are today for Koeman and Martinez. However, after failing at United, no club even wants to employ him now. His decade of achievement at Everton was erased by just 10 months at United. I think he is too big for Sunderland, a club which is in serious mismanagement. Southampton and Watford did not even consider him when they were looking for a manager during the summer. You can't blame the man for being bitter about United when now he has to manage Sunderland. Sunderland isn't giving him transfer funds this January and he is losing players to AFCON. The position at Sunderland is similar to the one at Swansea - a poisoned chalice. There is a high chance that he will fail with Sunderland and everyone will go," See! I told you he is rubbish!" But his club is Sunderland! Moyes could have made a comeback if he were given a job at Southampton or Watford.
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To be fair, Ancelotti was sacked at Parma but did guide them to a 2nd placed finish the year before that. He finished twice in consecutive seasons at Juventus and won two CL's with Milan: for all the poor times he had it's arguable he never fully flopped at any of the clubs...whereas if Sunderland go down that'll be three consecutive jobs Moyes has had where he's failed massively.
 
Cheesy said:
To be fair, Ancelotti was sacked at Parma but did guide them to a 2nd placed finish the year before that. He finished twice in consecutive seasons at Juventus and won two CL's with Milan: for all the poor times he had it's arguable he never fully flopped at any of the clubs...whereas if Sunderland go down that'll be three consecutive jobs Moyes has had where he's failed massively.
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Yes, but I have a strong feeling that clubs in England are less willing to overlook that one season of underachievement and instead look at the past achievements. I still think that Moyes is a good mid-table manager for Southampton or Watford, and he does not have to go to Sunderland. Roy Hodgson is being considered at the position at Swansea, which I feel for him is a major step-down since he was a success at stable, mid-table teams like Fulham and WBA.

What I feel is that if Giggs were to take up this position and he fails, that will the end of his managerial career...though the fault may lie in the management, but not in him.

EDIT: trying to stick to topic.
 
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AlwaysRed66 said:
I know the general opinion is that Gary Neville was a failure at Valencia, but his successors are hardly doing any better, & as of now they are one place of the relegation spots. Obviously the problems go deeper than Neville's managerial ability. At least he is articulate & speaks well, which is more than you could say for Giggs. Hardly see him inspiring anyone, certainly not me.
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I used Gary's example more to highlight that taking over the wrong club at the wrong time can kill a managerial career. I didn't follow what happened at Valencia that closely enough when Gary was there to judge if he was a failure or not.
 
ZupZup said:
Yeah, you're absolutely right. If he wanted to be a coach, he probably could have done his coaching badges or something? At least show some intent... imagine if he even went out and became the first person to get their UEFA Pro Licence whilst still a player! I mean he could have done that but... oh.
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You almost had me there.. lol
 
FahadiHossein said:
Yes, but I have a strong feeling that clubs in England are less willing to overlook that one season of underachievement and instead look at the past achievements. I still think that Moyes is a good mid-table manager for Southampton or Watford, and he does not have to go to Sunderland. Roy Hodgson is being considered at the position at Swansea, which I feel for him is a major step-down since he was a success at stable, mid-table teams like Fulham and WBA.

What I feel is that if Giggs were to take up this position and he fails, that will the end of his managerial career...though the fault may lie in the management, but not in him.

EDIT: trying to stick to topic.
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Agree with this.
I just find it strange that Utd fans are criticising Giggs for not picking up a managerial job asap.
Why should he? It is his choice.
This whole "sense of entitlement" to the Utd job is so overplayed.
Maybe he harboured the ambition to succeed LVG when he was LVG's number two, and that affected the way Utd fans looked at him.
But it is clear now that he is not in the running, why should we be bothered whether or not he is in a rush to take up a managerial job?
 
Giggs is off his head if he takes that job imo.

They'll go down, and he won't escape the abuse from it.
 
Bwuk said:
Giggs is off his head if he takes that job imo.

They'll go down, and he won't escape the abuse from it.
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Why would someone give him a more important job? Hasn't he basically been playing football in India or something since he was passed over for the United job? The dude needs to take a risk if he wants a coaching career at all. He's not going to be gifted a good opportunity because no one will buy into that scam.
 
FahadiHossein said:
Yes, but I have a strong feeling that clubs in England are less willing to overlook that one season of underachievement and instead look at the past achievements. I still think that Moyes is a good mid-table manager for Southampton or Watford, and he does not have to go to Sunderland. Roy Hodgson is being considered at the position at Swansea, which I feel for him is a major step-down since he was a success at stable, mid-table teams like Fulham and WBA.

What I feel is that if Giggs were to take up this position and he fails, that will the end of his managerial career...though the fault may lie in the management, but not in him.

EDIT: trying to stick to topic.
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There's an argument Moyes could be a good still be a good mid-table manager but there's also a counter-argument that he just happened to be suited to the situation at Everton (very stable squad etc), and that he hit gold...and he's not very good elsewhere. Or he's just past his best...many managers decline, and fail to emulate past career successes.

Hodgson partially made Fulham and WBA mid-table clubs...the former were threatened with relegation when he came in and the latter were the definition of a yo-yo team till recent years.

I feel like Giggs would get a second chance if he failed because of his inside connections and the fact that English football is full to the brim of average managers who had one alright spell at a club and have been consistently spending one or two years and then getting the inevitable sacking since.
 
Flytan said:
Why would someone give him a more important job? Hasn't he basically been playing football in India or something since he was passed over for the United job? The dude needs to take a risk if he wants a coaching career at all. He's not going to be gifted a good opportunity because no one will buy into that scam.
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Pretty much. All this "ah, that's too risky" stuff seems a bit bizarre. What jobs don't hold an inherent risk? Any side near the bottom is threatened with relegation, a few of the current mid-table sides are arguably punching above their weight and won't get much better, and the sides at the top are sometimes cutthroat if a manager doesn't win things or falls below what's expected. Swansea may be worse than most right now, but if Giggs has ambitions to manage United I want him to go into a situation that's an absolute mess, and fix it. It's tough, yeah...but, well, tough shit. Good managers improve teams. They impose their own authority upon a squad and make their mark. It's harder in the modern game, granted, but plenty still do it.

If Claudio Raneiri can win the league with Leicester, or Sir Alex Ferguson can go 21 league seasons in a row while never finishing below 75 points, or if Arsene Wenger can get a side to go an entire season unbeaten, or if Brian Clough can win two consecutive European Cups with Nottingham Forest, then Ryan Giggs - if he's a capable manager - should be able to walk into a club who finished around 8th two years ago and make them not finish below 17th.
 
Cheesy said:
If Claudio Raneiri can win the league with Leicester, or Sir Alex Ferguson can go 21 league seasons in a row while never finishing below 75 points, or if Arsene Wenger can get a side to go an entire season unbeaten, or if Brian Clough can win two consecutive European Cups with Nottingham Forest, then Ryan Giggs - if he's a capable manager - should be able to walk into a club who finished around 8th two years ago and make them not finish below 17th.
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Agree with the rest of the post except the part in quotes. Most of the examples you have provided were in a different era. Only the Leicester example is relevant, however it is an outlier so can't really be used to make decisions. For every Leicester, there are multiple Blackburns and Leeds who fell apart due to weak ownership.

I can see were Giggs is coming from. Very rarely does a manager who start right at the bottom makes it up to the very top of the league. Hence, he may be risk averse but I completely agree that to become one of the top managers of the world who shuttles between the Inters, Bayerns and Uniteds of the world, he needs to prove his mettle elsewhere. Its useless hoping that one of these positions will fall in his lap.
 
Subho611 said:
Agree with the rest of the post except the part in quotes. Most of the examples you have provided were in a different era. Only the Leicester example is relevant, however it is an outlier so can't really be used to make decisions. For every Leicester, there are multiple Blackburns and Leeds who fell apart due to weak ownership.

I can see were Giggs is coming from. Very rarely does a manager who start right at the bottom makes it up to the very top of the league. Hence, he may be risk averse but I completely agree that to become one of the top managers of the world who shuttles between the Inters, Bayerns and Uniteds of the world, he needs to prove his mettle elsewhere. Its useless hoping that one of these positions will fall in his lap.
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Because most of them aren't very good. They generally all play predictable, risk-averse football, buy Peter Crouch for £9m, aim to finish 13th and sort of keep things stable.

Leicester are an outlier but one of the most refreshing things about them was how they played a fairly simple but ridiculously effective style of play that managed to suit their main goalscoring outlet perfectly and allowed them to maintain low possession but win games. Granted, many managers would try that and fall flat on their arse, and I can understand why they opt for risk aversion when their reputations are on the line, but the managers who do succeed are often the ones who take risks.

Guardiola walked into Barca and got rid of Ronaldinho. He won the treble. Mourinho risked ridicule by calling himself special. He produced perhaps the two most dominant PL seasons we've seen. Fergie got rid of numerous major names and continued to succeed. Wenger was seen as a bit absurd and strange when he first came to the PL, but he changed Arsenal's culture and succeeded. Shankly was a visionary who recognised Liverpool were straggling far below where he believed they should be. He fixed that.

If Giggs wants to be a good manager, he has to take risks and just do something other than finish 13th with West Brom for four consecutive years. Swansea may not be the best choice, perhaps, but either way he's approaching his mid-40s and needs to do something. He doesn't need to worry about a second job. He's mates with some of the most powerful people in English football and would quite easily get something in the Championship if he fecked up at Swansea or Sunderland or Burnley or whoever.
 
Cheesy said:
Because most of them aren't very good. They generally all play predictable, risk-averse football, buy Peter Crouch for £9m, aim to finish 13th and sort of keep things stable.

Leicester are an outlier but one of the most refreshing things about them was how they played a fairly simple but ridiculously effective style of play that managed to suit their main goalscoring outlet perfectly and allowed them to maintain low possession but win games. Granted, many managers would try that and fall flat on their arse, and I can understand why they opt for risk aversion when their reputations are on the line, but the managers who do succeed are often the ones who take risks.

Guardiola walked into Barca and got rid of Ronaldinho. He won the treble. Mourinho risked ridicule by calling himself special. He produced perhaps the two most dominant PL seasons we've seen. Fergie got rid of numerous major names and continued to succeed. Wenger was seen as a bit absurd and strange when he first came to the PL, but he changed Arsenal's culture and succeeded. Shankly was a visionary who recognised Liverpool were straggling far below where he believed they should be. He fixed that.

If Giggs wants to be a good manager, he has to take risks and just do something other than finish 13th with West Brom for four consecutive years. Swansea may not be the best choice, perhaps, but either way he's approaching his mid-40s and needs to do something. He doesn't need to worry about a second job. He's mates with some of the most powerful people in English football and would quite easily get something in the Championship if he fecked up at Swansea or Sunderland or Burnley or whoever.
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Good post again, I completely agree with what you have said. He definitely needs to do something special and not wait for something of this stature to fall in his lap.

My only point is that I can see why he is being risk averse. He has one or maybe two opportunities to make a mark and he wants to choose the right club that suits him. Yes, time is running out for him and he doesn't have many options. Maybe he will take the Swansea job, let's wait and watch.
 
Cheesy said:
Because most of them aren't very good. They generally all play predictable, risk-averse football, buy Peter Crouch for £9m, aim to finish 13th and sort of keep things stable.

Leicester are an outlier but one of the most refreshing things about them was how they played a fairly simple but ridiculously effective style of play that managed to suit their main goalscoring outlet perfectly and allowed them to maintain low possession but win games. Granted, many managers would try that and fall flat on their arse, and I can understand why they opt for risk aversion when their reputations are on the line, but the managers who do succeed are often the ones who take risks.

Guardiola walked into Barca and got rid of Ronaldinho. He won the treble. Mourinho risked ridicule by calling himself special. He produced perhaps the two most dominant PL seasons we've seen. Fergie got rid of numerous major names and continued to succeed. Wenger was seen as a bit absurd and strange when he first came to the PL, but he changed Arsenal's culture and succeeded. Shankly was a visionary who recognised Liverpool were straggling far below where he believed they should be. He fixed that.

If Giggs wants to be a good manager, he has to take risks and just do something other than finish 13th with West Brom for four consecutive years. Swansea may not be the best choice, perhaps, but either way he's approaching his mid-40s and needs to do something. He doesn't need to worry about a second job. He's mates with some of the most powerful people in English football and would quite easily get something in the Championship if he fecked up at Swansea or Sunderland or Burnley or whoever.
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I agree that he needs to start making moves rather than sitting on his arse with the odd side gig in mediocre punditry, but almost none of those managers just done something special. Wenger spent most of his playing career as partial coach, and was a manager for 12 years before even getting the Arsenal job, Sir Alex also had 12 years on the job before United, working his way up the Scottish ladder and doing impressive things with Aberdeen, Morurinho had only 4 years as a manager, but was a coach and assistant manager for a long time before it. Guardiola is the outlier(and Zidane had a similar start), but he's not going to land a situation like that, especially not in England.

Swansea may not be the right job, but he does need to get his career started if he plans on having one and there'll be plenty available in the next few months. Like you say, he needs something and has enough mates with influence(and a media that fawns over him) to get his leg back in if it does go to pot on his first gig.
 
Earthquake said:
I agree that he needs to start making moves rather than sitting on his arse with the odd side gig in mediocre punditry, but almost none of those managers just done something special. Wenger spent most of his playing career as partial coach, and was a manager for 12 years before even getting the Arsenal job, Sir Alex also had 12 years on the job before United, working his way up the Scottish ladder and doing impressive things with Aberdeen, Morurinho had only 4 years as a manager, but was a coach and assistant manager for a long time before it. Guardiola is the outlier(and Zidane had a similar start), but he's not going to land a situation like that, especially not in England.

Swansea may not be the right job, but he does need to get his career started if he plans on having one and there'll be plenty available in the next few months. Like you say, he needs something and has enough mates with influence(and a media that fawns over him) to get his leg back in if it does go to pot on his first gig.
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Agree with this, if he is not careful he will be a fifty year old managerial novice like Mike Phelan. He needs a platform to showcase his managerial vision and if he shows something there then even getting relegated with Swansea won't be a blot on his CV because some owner in the lower divisions could be impressed and offer him a job in a more stable environment.
There are still a lot of unanswered questions re-Giggs the manager and if he doesn't take the stage to answer them he will confine himself to punditry forever because an ideal job won't simply fall on his lap. The moment such a job becomes available it attracts more proven candidates from European leagues and he loses out again. Fixing a club in trouble like Swansea are right now is his only chance.
Anyone who says he needs tens of millions to survive with that side is flat out lying. Not in this environment where he can bag an old pro or two on loan, has access to Woodward where he can ask for young talented lads on loan from our U23 side and he can pick up one or two bargain signings on the continent to launch a mini rebuild.
 
There is a reason why Giggs is in the frame. Surely Swansea are counting on Giggs' connection with Man Utd and have calculated that there would be players that can be signed on loan/perm deals in January from us and that's a main reason why his name is mentioned prominently.
 
fishfingers15 said:
There is a reason why Giggs is in the frame. Surely Swansea are counting on Giggs' connection with Man Utd and have calculated that there would be players that can be signed on loan/perm deals in January from us and that's a main reason why his name is mentioned prominently.
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Perhaps. I don't know that our squad is as swollen with driftwood as it was 3 or 4 years ago so not sure there would be much available that would immediately improve Swansea.

Maybe they hope a lot of players would like to work with a player of his caliber and all that he has seen and done.
 
Giggs should have accepted the reserve team. Working one or two years with them and staying at the club rather than applying for Swansea and being relegated.

Zidane did it with Real. Pep at Barcelona. A lot of new coach are doing their trade in reserve team.
 
Bwuk said:
Giggs is off his head if he takes that job imo.

They'll go down, and he won't escape the abuse from it.
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Similar to Ole taking the job at Cardiff, he's got no chance and it's hard to recover from that kind of failure.
 
Devil81 said:
Similar to Ole taking the job at Cardiff, he's got no chance and it's hard to recover from that kind of failure.
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Exactly my point. Should of went for a job like Villa when it was available.
 
Bwuk said:
Exactly my point. Should of went for a job like Villa when it was available.
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But Villa hired Bruce who is fairly experienced and well qualified... it's not like Giggs can have whatever job he wants.

Maybe he was in consideration and they went for Bruce? We don't really know... maybe Swansea want someone more experienced in their current predicament? Again, it's all guesswork so it's a bit wrong to say he should have done this, or should have done that. We don't know what has happened, or is happening behind the scenes.
 
Would be a stupid appointment, I'd like to see him manage a team though. So I hope he takes it, really.
 
Would like to see him take TFM on loan
 
I think he was assured he would be getting the big job after a few year's under lvg and he has not recovered from that going tits up. He was so sure he would be the next Utd manager that he still doesn't really want any other job. Saying that I hope he does well if he does eventually get in to management.
 
At this point for Swansea it must be accepted that going down is a real possibility so I can't see Giggs being too affected by it if they do. It will all have to be about effective planning and squad management over the next 8 months ready for next year. If he can get a couple shrewd loan signings then they would have a chance.

Provided expectations can be managed realistically going in then it could be a really good starting point for him.
 
Gary Rowett has been linked right? A manager with something to prove, who already has a decent track record. Has experience as a manager but still young enough for fresh ideas. If he keeps them up, great, if not, he's shown upward mobility in the Championship recently. Sounds like the right move. They'll probably appoint Giggs so.
 
It's such an unattractive job. Certainties not to come up after relegation. Swansea will not even be a big name in the championship.
 
Chaky_Best said:
Giggs should have accepted the reserve team. Working one or two years with them and staying at the club rather than applying for Swansea and being relegated.

Zidane did it with Real. Pep at Barcelona. A lot of new coach are doing their trade in reserve team.
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The Spanish B-teams play in competitive lower division leagues, rather than purely against other reserves, it's not exactly an apples to apples comparison.
 
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