I'll need some time to come up with something as 'out there' as your effort.
Will probably have to enhance my moral code while I'm at it.
Ryan Giggs. Professional, Legend, Adulterer, Accomplice, Assassin, Usurper?
- Thread starter RedPnutz
- Start date
Will probably have to enhance my moral code while I'm at it.
Excellent thread, and spot on.
You may use the old "Paul Scholes is a black man" thread for inspiration. Or, rather, the actual idea that Paul Scholes is a black man. It's out there, controversial, possibly racist - and it ties in nicely with the Giggsy theme, him being of African descent and all.
A secret African plot to take over United. Ginger Africans scheming to tear down the very fabric of the now largely Dutch, and formerly great football club.
+1 i think we need evidence eithr way..and not by using us as an experiment.
Paul Scholes AND Phillip Lahm are black men? Wow.
If Mourinho does end up with the job I'd be surprised if he agreed to have Grima shadowing him.
It was Lahm? Could have sworn it was Scholes. But Lahm works - he's been undermining LVG too.
Plus, for all we know Lahm could be Scholes - in which case Scholes is still a black man.
I love giggs as a player but we need to move on. valuing sentiment over practicality is exactly what got us into this mess in the first place.
if giggs wants to manage us in the future he'll have to prove that he has the quality to be a managerial success just like any other.
if giggs wants to manage us in the future he'll have to prove that he has the quality to be a managerial success just like any other.
Ryan Giggs. Professional, Legend, Adulterer, Accomplice, Assassin, Usurper, Womaniser
I'm not keen on Giggs tbh. Loved him as a young player. Thought he lost quite a lot of his ability in later years when everyone was still saying how wonderful and amazing he was. He was obviously still capable in many ways, and occasionally had a burst of brilliance, but he gave the ball away far more than was acceptable...and far more than seemed to be noticed by many.
His affair with his brother's wife did ruin the image a bit. Would have been different had it been a great love affair, because that might be forgiveable, but to do that to your brother for no good reason, wasn't.
He may well turn out to be a brilliant manager, but I'd rather he didn't practice at Old Trafford. Let him go and become a success elsewhere first, not just walk into the job here as a virtual novice.
His affair with his brother's wife did ruin the image a bit. Would have been different had it been a great love affair, because that might be forgiveable, but to do that to your brother for no good reason, wasn't.
He may well turn out to be a brilliant manager, but I'd rather he didn't practice at Old Trafford. Let him go and become a success elsewhere first, not just walk into the job here as a virtual novice.
I never forgiven him for killing Rhaegar Targeryan
Hiring the wrong manager twice is what got us into this mess.
From what I've read, he and his brother haven't had a great relationship for a long time, Livvs.
Anyway, if the focus must be on that, then why not hold it up as an example of ruthlessness and discuss how such a quality would be beneficial in a management role?
Who me? Or United?
I doubt United with their previously strong moral compass, would use adultery as an acceptable example of ruthlessness or as a desirable quality for a manager - it would reek of hypocrisy after sacking Tommy Docherty.
And I really don't see that having an affair with your brother's wife has any kind of relevance to the kind of ruthlessness which might be required of a manager.
I agree, it's not ruthless, it's just the behaviour of a scumbag.
I can't read into Giggs's mind but I've gotten the impression over the last seasons that he's trying to slip into our manager job through the side door - that he's been biding his time as an assistant to Moyes and LVG and waiting for the moment when the board will turn to him next. All while not having to risk his credibility by managing another club.
All of the former United players with aspirations to manage have taken on jobs elsewhere - Ole, Keane, Ince, Hughes, Bruce, Strachan, G. Neville, etc. - sometimes even two or three divisions down to establish a CV. Giggs has been given IMO a crony's appointment and looks like he might be free of the timeline that other managers would have to go through in order to be even faintly considered by us. None of the ex-players have been up to par for the United job (G. Neville we don't know yet) and for us to even consider Giggs, who had just gotten his coaching badges recently and has all of 4 games to his record, would make me wonder about the decision-making of the club.
LVG has to carry the load for these problems we're having now but I've wondered how much he's needed (and Moyes) to placate Giggs while trying to do his job. Giggs has very deep connections in the club, needless to say, and his roots with SAF can't make things easy for any manager who is his boss. I'm not going to sit here and accuse him of trying to make LVG's life difficult (as I don't have a clue what goes on at the club) but I could see the possibility, based on his personal doings, that Giggs might try to squirm his way in without actually earning it.
I'm not one to say that Giggs will definitely fail but I don't see what makes him exempt from the same requirements as everyone else. And it's not like Giggs couldn't get a managing job somewhere. There is so much turnover at clubs nowadays, he would almost certainly have found something.
All of the former United players with aspirations to manage have taken on jobs elsewhere - Ole, Keane, Ince, Hughes, Bruce, Strachan, G. Neville, etc. - sometimes even two or three divisions down to establish a CV. Giggs has been given IMO a crony's appointment and looks like he might be free of the timeline that other managers would have to go through in order to be even faintly considered by us. None of the ex-players have been up to par for the United job (G. Neville we don't know yet) and for us to even consider Giggs, who had just gotten his coaching badges recently and has all of 4 games to his record, would make me wonder about the decision-making of the club.
LVG has to carry the load for these problems we're having now but I've wondered how much he's needed (and Moyes) to placate Giggs while trying to do his job. Giggs has very deep connections in the club, needless to say, and his roots with SAF can't make things easy for any manager who is his boss. I'm not going to sit here and accuse him of trying to make LVG's life difficult (as I don't have a clue what goes on at the club) but I could see the possibility, based on his personal doings, that Giggs might try to squirm his way in without actually earning it.
I'm not one to say that Giggs will definitely fail but I don't see what makes him exempt from the same requirements as everyone else. And it's not like Giggs couldn't get a managing job somewhere. There is so much turnover at clubs nowadays, he would almost certainly have found something.
The discussion, in fact.
There are, perhaps, varying degrees of severity in adultery, I'd say banging your brother's wife for eight years is pretty ruthless, at the very least there's not an ounce of sentimentality there. Definitely a desirable quality in a football manager.
Anyway, times have changed since Docherty was sacked, the general perception of infidelity is less than favourable but it is accepted as a fact of life, indeed, some chronic adulterers are known to have a compulsion for the behaviour. As well, that situation involved people within the club so it is markedly different from an operating perspective.
Furthermore, we know little of how Ryan's views on sex were formed, how much his father's conduct influenced them and even what kind of marriage he has. Certainly, denigrating him as a person over consensual sex is nearly as low as cheating, imo.
Giggs' autobiography has a paragraph about the game in Portugal where Ronaldo played against Utd. I don't remember the exact wording, but the single paragraph said the team was tired & that was the only reason that Ronaldo did so well.
It looks either he can't recognize great potential even when it walks up and bites him, or maybe he just resents players that are as talented as him (better than him?).
Either way, that doesn't look good for his career as a manager imo. And reading that made me think he wouldn't be a great teammate either.
It looks either he can't recognize great potential even when it walks up and bites him, or maybe he just resents players that are as talented as him (better than him?).
Either way, that doesn't look good for his career as a manager imo. And reading that made me think he wouldn't be a great teammate either.
Certainly he possesses the presence and stature at the club to have had more influence on the mood surrounding the club and the way it comes across in the media. That he has neglected to use this when the confidence of LVG, the players and the fans are at this low ebb is concerning. Is it a neglect of duty or a betrayal? I'm not sure, but I don't like it.
Yes, and my point really was that he might not be above being a scumbag in other situations as well.
Certainly. This is a relevant perspective and you are not making any claims about whether he will be a good or bad manager. Not sure why some posters got really upset, we are just discussing possible human nature here.
We don't need a scumbag sneaking around doing underhanded shit, we just need a strong leader who makes direct calls for the good of the team.
Clarification please, are you implying that it is ok to bang your brother's Wife for eight years (or commit serial adultery) because of how his dad or family shaped his views?
Should a child rapist or molester be forgiven or less guilty because he or she was sexually abused as a child?
And come on. How can Suggesting a person may have certain unscrupulous characteristics that may cause him to create trouble in a working environment; be as low as cheating on a family member and causing that family to break up and creating embarrassment for the people involved?
It's always nice when United fans speak this way of their legends and act as though Mourinho is a man of great character. Lovely stuff.
Don't be so precious, this sentimentality is getting worse, being a legend doesn't give anyone a free pass, like Scholes, wonderful player and United legend, but his endless whining and frankly dense opinion pieces and spouting on BT sport have been detrimental and he's rightfully been called on it.
the fine art of manipulation wrapped in a distracting coat of subterfuge and misdirection
Human behaviour is clearly extremely complex and when we don't know the the very individual cognitive and affective influences involved it is just impossible to analyse and therefore judge his actions fairly.
It has been my 30th birthday today. Giggs has always been my favourite Utd player, since I can remember anyway. Above Cantona, Keane and Ronaldo without question.
But I would not trust him in the manager's role (permanently) at this stage. He is the ultimate legend, in my time, but that is not enough to guarantee a job with no experience.
But I would not trust him in the manager's role (permanently) at this stage. He is the ultimate legend, in my time, but that is not enough to guarantee a job with no experience.
No of course it doesn't, but to call him Grima is just sad. What has he done as an assistant manager to make you liken him to Saruman's spy?
To me he is like a lurking snake in the background wanting LvG's job and expecting to be just handed the reigns because he was a great player for us, instead of going out there from under the United security blanket and actually earning the credentials to be United manager.
"About 1% of the human population are psychopaths. But CEOs are four times more likely to be psychopaths than the average person, according to journalist Jon Ronson."
Being a bit uncaring or self-centred has never been been a barrier to success. Not that I'm claiming Giggs is either a psychopath or that I'd let him near my missus, but it's hardly something to get precious about in a manager.
Also, Rio claimed that Giggs is almost impossible to read, which is something he said would help his as a manager. From my own experiences, I'd agree.
Being cold, calculating and stony faced has its advantages. I'd rather that than David Brent or Basil Fawlty, no matter how entertaining the press conferences (and there are a few in those veins in the PL). LvG's ornery style never did him any favours in the end.
Being a bit uncaring or self-centred has never been been a barrier to success. Not that I'm claiming Giggs is either a psychopath or that I'd let him near my missus, but it's hardly something to get precious about in a manager.
Also, Rio claimed that Giggs is almost impossible to read, which is something he said would help his as a manager. From my own experiences, I'd agree.
Being cold, calculating and stony faced has its advantages. I'd rather that than David Brent or Basil Fawlty, no matter how entertaining the press conferences (and there are a few in those veins in the PL). LvG's ornery style never did him any favours in the end.
I really hope that's not the case. If we want to be at the top, we have to buy the top players and hire the top coaches. We can't expect Pep MkII.
I would hope Giggs realises this.
Wow, so because our board decided it would be a great idea for him to be an understudy to Van Gaal, one of the game's most experienced managers, after he showed some promise in his brief spell as an interim manager, he's a snake with the character of Grima Wormtongue for taking the offer? You do realise you are just projecting all of this stuff onto Giggs without having a clue what he's doing in his day-to-day job as Van Gaal's assistant? It's yet to be seen whether he will be handed the reins.
I fully agree. The best workplace managers I know have been dickheads. I'd hazard that the most successful men in business would all fit into the same category.
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......Or doing his job and assist LVG in the public domain too. If he doesn't feel like he can do it, because he disagrees with the way things are being run, then he should quit. In no way do I see him doing his utmost to aid the manager, and that's his job.
This thread is ludicrous; the current situation at the club has put you all in panic mode, and there's some weird bitter stuff being said about LVG and Giggs.
Same with being my favourite player for a long time.
I tihnk part of the problem is the only thing i know about him is he was screwing his brothers wife for a long time.
I dont know him, or his situation, or the world he lives in (which is probably pretty bizarre in fairness)
And to be honest i dont think i care, i find the whole celebrity stalking thing weird and a bit boring.
His character isn't very relevant to me (I dont have to work with him)
and the people actually picking the next manager are in a better position to judge him so its their problem to worry about.
Its hard to look at him favourably when the only thing you know about him is hes good at football and the cheating thing though.
100%
You still need to hone that craft at some stage though, you can't always 100% it first time, especially with the expectations we have.
I take Giggs' personal life out of it - in football he is a legend of the highest order and that respect will earn him major favours, rightly or wrongly. He's clearly a despicable bastard off the pitch - worse than Mourinho even, for those that care.