Thanks, looks like we may be going home just in time.
SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)
- Thread starter Don't Kill Bill
- Start date
Sturgeon in Holyrood announcing new restrictions. Whenever I hear her talk I can never understand why folk like Boris are so bad at it.
She's from Ayrshire which means that at this time of her day her blood is 70% gin.
She's from Ayrshire which means that at this time of her day her blood is 70% gin.
Didn't get the second Covid notification. Feel like Neo dodging that shit.
Only about a month late locking down the central belt. Quick enough to do it for Aberdeen and now it’s got out of control.
Sounds like tinder but you're actively rooting to not get a follow up message then.
Pubs & restaurants to close across central Scotland from Friday.
14162 cases and 70 deaths for UK
3145 in hospital
Interesting on the dashboard they have the 57k deaths stat on there.
3145 in hospital
Interesting on the dashboard they have the 57k deaths stat on there.
https://www.statnews.com/2020/10/07/eli-lilly-monoclonal-antibody-cocktail-covid-19/
The beginning of the end, it looks like?
The beginning of the end, it looks like?
I of course accept that behind the scenes, the Government is trying to keep the economy running whilst protecting the NHS and trying to keep loss of life and transmission of the virus to a minimum. What I'd like to see is more being made of that and a Government who will speak plainly about the need for balance, which has been lacking to date. For example, I appreciate nobody wants to openly say that there is an acceptable number of deaths from the virus to allow a functioning economy (thereby saving lives which may otherwise be lost), even if that is true.
As I said, we're in unprecedented times and I see no reason why politicians can't put the spin to one side and be honest. Maybe that allows the public to better understand the problems they're having to deal with and how complicated this all is. Maybe it makes people more sympathetic to others and perhaps, encourages people to follow the rules. Maybe it creates more "buy - in" if the Government says "here are the facts, this is why we've done what we've done". Maybe that's over optimistic.
It's almost as if, despite being in the biggest post-war crisis the country has seen, the public are seen as to soft, or too stupid to understand that it is impossible to fully suppress the virus and keep the economy running.
Being frank, who knows what the right balance is. I'm not sure it can ever be found 100%, or at least, as things change its something that needs to be kept constantly under review.
Yeah, I'd appreciate that a lot too. It's supposed to be one of the pillars of any successful strategy in dealing with scenarios like this; clear, consistent and transparent messaging. In the end we as a country elected a prime minister whose most noticeable quality prior to the election was sticking exceptionally closely to simple slogans on big issues which were neither true nor substantive. It's entirely predictable that he would stick to that same model in the next crisis, and the government would follow cue. We didn't elect someone that we thought would be good in a crisis, or if we did, we didn't think about that one very hard. It's due to a failure of the public, the media and the opposition political parties that we find ourselves in that scenario, so maybe next time we'll take the consequences more seriously. As it is we should hold them to account and demand more but, personally, I don't expect that to be delivered upon.
One thing to add is that they might have a good (and also terrible) reason for not being transparent: they're handling it very badly, and being more open would only lead to more civil disobedience (not less) among those who are fed up, while panicking those who already worry.
For example, if they were to talk about the contact tracing system openly, many more people would get this message:
So while a lot of the talk on here about contact tracing failures has been about the system, it has more to do with poor cooperation from society in part because they don't trust the entire government response. All it does is impose additional burdens on people without providing appropriate support, and it doesn't even work anyway, so why bother.
Side note: cooperation is even worse in France, the US, Germany.
Tougher restrictions for the north of England with 6pm closures of pubs and restaurant. Following Nicola Sturgeon’s lead.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54457377
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54457377
Inevitable.
Am I losing my mind?
This is the PHE data most recently released:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/national-covid-19-surveillance-reports
Figure 19 and 20 clearly show that workplaces and education settings are driving the wave and that hospitality has an absolutely negligible effect on it.
So why are we clambering over ourselves to argue about exactly how strict things should be, and not addressing the elephant in the room that it is simply not possible to teach kids safely and that employers have failed to make workplaces "covid secure".
I'm sure my moaning comes from a selfish place (hell, I know it does), but I simply cannot for the life of me understand why we're diverting all our attention to making miniscule changes to people's ability to actually do anything remotely fun over the next six months when it's such a tiny sticking plaster on the absolutely huge gaping wound that is education and workplaces.
This is the PHE data most recently released:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/national-covid-19-surveillance-reports
Figure 19 and 20 clearly show that workplaces and education settings are driving the wave and that hospitality has an absolutely negligible effect on it.
So why are we clambering over ourselves to argue about exactly how strict things should be, and not addressing the elephant in the room that it is simply not possible to teach kids safely and that employers have failed to make workplaces "covid secure".
I'm sure my moaning comes from a selfish place (hell, I know it does), but I simply cannot for the life of me understand why we're diverting all our attention to making miniscule changes to people's ability to actually do anything remotely fun over the next six months when it's such a tiny sticking plaster on the absolutely huge gaping wound that is education and workplaces.
I think you’re right, unfortunately. I saw a Twitter thread from a public health physician in Israel. He was absolutely convinced that it was their schools which drove their outbreak. Right the way into a second full lockdown.
Maybe less of an issue for very young kids (creches opened in the UK ages before surge started) but secondary schools seem to be riddled with the virus. Looks as though one of the biggest factor in keeping things under control over summer was keeping the kids out of school. Everywhere we look, shit starts going south within weeks of them starting up again.
It does seem harsh to put such strict restrictions on the hospitality sector when the issues are elsewhere. It’s obviously the most politically palatable scapegoat.
Which begs the question, how many people are governments willing to let die for kids to be in school. I can well understand that people would be able to put forward a case that that number is not zero (I understand that this is essentially the sort of calculation that health services make on a micro scale all the time), but I bet the public appetite for death is a lot lower than the actual number would be.
Schools are always a driver with viruses so it would be very surprising if they weren't involved in this pandemic, even if younger kids seem to possibly get infected less often, certainly get far less severe or no symptoms, albeit with it still seeming largely unknown how much they can transmit once infected. Secondary schools are surely a concern as it is the U9's that are least effected.
I don’t fully understand why schools have to be kept open at all costs. Except of course that the Government just want the parents in work. I understand that people want their kids to be educated and have the social interaction that goes with it but what’s the point when those same kids futures are being destroyed?
NZ has eradicated again. Victoria continues to tread downwards towards zero even if there is still some community transmission occurring. NSW went 11 days without a case of community transmission but frustratingly 3 cases popped up yesterday, which may reset the clock on opening the border with QLD which was due in November.
Given how hard it has been for AU to get back to very low levels of infection you wonder what it would now take in most countries to massively reduce infections especially given the northern winter is coming, which can't help. The world really fecked this one up even though some countries fecked it up worse than others.
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There seems to be a few in my work place who have got it, the frustrating thing is no one is telling us about it, we are hearing someone in our area from the other shift has it, we weren't told but other rooms were told.
What measures are taken to ensure safe opening of pubs? Here you have to electronically register prior to entry, apply hand sanitiser (some even take your temperature), most remove or close about 50% of tables (there is a customer per sqm rule I think) and you aren't allowed to stand other than to go to the bar to order (all seating). Each pub must also have a specific identified covid marshall to enforce the rules and you often see the cops dropping in to check. The fines for getting it wrong are big and a few places have had their licences suspended for a period of time for not complying. I'm guessing the UK and Ireland aren't requlating to this extent.
My wife works in a large primary school. On average I'd say they are made aware of one positive test per week. Dozens of children are off on a weekly basis whilst they wait for test results after having symptoms
The most frustrating thing is that she is now off work and isolating for the second time after parents had their child tested, sent them into school BEFORE they have had the results of the test, only for them to subsequently test positive.
Visits to the hospital or ER were made by 5.8% of patients in the placebo group, but just 0.9% of those who received the antibody combination. That difference, however, was just barely statistically significant.
It is not the silver bullet yet but much like the Regeneron treatment, another step in improving treatment.
These tend to be expensive to make in quantity.
Peter Doherty thinks that vaccines combined with monoclonal antibody treatment will be the solution. So maybe covid has changed what is expensive/achievable?
https://www.theguardian.com/austral...id-specific-therapy-says-australian-scientist
I think most people would argue it makes sense to prioritise the wider economy and education over fun, and so what they're doing is whittling away at the at the stuff around the edges until the only thing left is those two. They foreshadowed this with public health experts saying they may have to close pubs to keep schools open in August, and the majority accepted it. I wouldn't rule out those two being on the horizon as well as, rather than instead of, these restrictions.
I do think the scale of transmission in schools changes that equation somewhat though. It was suggested that young kids aren't much of a concern back in August, but primary schools have 10x as many clusters as universities, and education is the source of 5x as many cases vs. restaurants, pubs, and seemingly every other leisure activity. Those figures don't seem to fit with their projections, so surely they should at least be revising the model.
If it was put to the public that you could stop the surge in transmission entirely by taking kids out of school, and all other recent restrictions could be removed, how many people would agree? I'd guess it would be a majority. Especially if they provided real figures for how many jobs will be lost in hospitality because of it.
The problem with the education system is it's less flexible. A couple of months of no school means the entire school year is fecked, the curriculum is very rigid in that way. Whereas a couple of months without pubs means nothing when people go straight back to normal routines afterwards.
The other thing is about mental health. People are quick to point to pubs being important for people's mental health, which is true to a point, but I'd imagine it's more true for schools. Some affluent and like minded families have found the extra time with their kids a net benefit but loads were close to breaking point being teacher, carer and worker all day long. On balance I'd say it's much more of a risk to long term mental health.
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Do you still think this the kind of recession that happens every decade or so; it won't be uniquely damaging in the last half century?
The White House is no place to work these days.
There must be a suitable collective noun.
Oh dear.
Big money trumps leisure. The greater economy takes precedence. That's the sad fact of the broken world we live in. In order to survive, we must sacrifice lives to make rich people richer.
Anyways, I think you made a good observation about schools. One thing many governments realized is what people call "super spreader" events. Any situation where large groups of people congregate and social distancing is difficult can potentially lead to that. Especially if it is in closed spaces. Schools, construction sites and religious events are examples of this. School children have no concern for hygiene in their behavior and they can hardly social distance in the closed environment of their classes.
Some countries actually implemented measures to combat this. E.g. Mandatory testing of school teachers and students before reopening. Rostered classrooms where classes take turns between studying from home and studying in school. Priority given to classes facing national exams, like O levels. Regular surveillance testing to catch outbreaks before they get out of control. I'm not sure if the UK has had any of these measures.
It's a crime to see how europe did so well to contain the virus only to cock it up with overly aggressive reopenings. Was there a lack of social distancing/testing/surevillance testing protocols? UK and EU even opened borders early without even a concern for checking respective country 7 day infection rate averages, right? UK was still at ~1000 cases a day when they reopened with Spain and Italy who were down to ~100 cases a day, IIRC.
, seriously though I was sitting down at lunch and overheard 2 women talk about COVID in the factory, they mentioned that one room was the talk of the factory and then they mentioned my area has a confirmed case, point of all this is you miss out on a lot of what’s going on when you don’t have a talkative smoker working in your area, we’d heard nothing off no one, in fact the buddies misses had heard about it before we had and she’s out on maternity.Where is this if you don’t mind me asking? Location on earth, not specific name of factory.
Where are they?
Isn't it something to cherish that even at their age, in their condition and in these circumstances, they're still willing and able to live freely (within a broad spectrum of responsible choices)? You value their lives more than their freedom, which most people can relate to, but should they?
Ireland
Good luck. Stay safe.
Something weird happened and the thread forgot I'd read anything in this thread since April. When I realised I couldn't be bothered to not ask.Wait, why are you both quoting something from April?