SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

Drifter

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UnrelatedPsuedo

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People need to stop trying to make sense of the Tiers and regions.

This government was elected. This is how they behave. Trying to parse some fairness in there is pointless.
 

VeevaVee

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I feel like the Christmas break is just because they know a lot of people are going to break lockdown if it’s in place, which would quite rightly piss everyone else off. Coupled with trying to police it on Christmas Day, it’s probably just not worth having the lockdown. Potential uproar on both sides.
 

groovyalbert

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I feel like the Christmas break is just because they know a lot of people are going to break lockdown if it’s in place, which would quite rightly piss everyone else off. Coupled with trying to police it on Christmas Day, it’s probably just not worth having the lockdown. Potential uproar on both sides.
Sort of agree to be honest. For me, the only reason to impose lockdowns/restrictions is to protect hospitals/ensure other treatments can be administered. It's a real shame that after the first wave we haven't been better at making more space/opening up facilities to cope with what was always going to come. We should have utilised army facilities/doctors and demanded more from private hospitals that simply never took place.

Now we're left putting unnecessary pressure on a bowing health service because we didn't make use of all options. And all this for a disease which - despite it's horrific impact , and one which has touched me personally - still isn't that bad compared to other potential pandemics we've either previously avoided/may still come.
 

Suv666

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I think I've caught it. Have an insanely bad cough since morning now. Antibiotics arent working. Have isolated myself will try to get tested tommorow
 

Nytram Shakes

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Slight problem with that theory: it is not just the UK government relaxing restrictions for the holidays
I honestly dunno how people are handling it in other countries, i would guess that it isn't just UK people who are acting like spoilt brats but i don't live in those countries so I won't coment.

Also, I don't just blame the UK government I think the people of the UK need to take and equal (if not the majority of the blame) people are demanding the relaxing for xmas it's very clear that even if the government didn't allow it then a majority of people would just ignore the rules anyway.
 
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Judas

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France seems to be handling it in a much more strict manner going by what friends have told me, I think we've got off so lightly in this country and the government have just put faith and trust into the public to do the right thing. Seems like laziness and a desperate attempt to please.
 

The holy trinity 68

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The North East of England is being crippled by Covid. Staying in tier 3 again. I have family that own pub's and the money provided to them from the government is not enough and unfortunately their businesses that they have worked extremely hard for are about to go under.
 
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it's simply that us British people are spoilt and have would have a massive hissy fit if they weren't allowed to have family Christmas.

We will also have a hissy fit afterwards when we have to be lockdown again, will blame everyone else for the fact that it costs peoples lives and jobs.

The biggest thing i'm taking away from this pandemic is that we are a country of overly entitled *****
It not sure it’s just British people. Be interesting to see if there are similar reactions elsewhere.

there’s certainly a lot of people who can’t see the point in the restrictions, and who are taking the piss. Perhaps because they can’t see the implications of their actions immediately?

we are certainty not a country United that’s pulling in the same direction. That’s very clear, and not just from corona.

This logic where we're all just dickheads is a bit weird.

It seems pretty normal people are frustrated with what is happening.

Not being allowed out properly in 9 or so months
It's now winter which is naturally going to piss more people off
A tier system where logic seems to go out the window somewhat
A government which clearly doesn't know what they're doing.
The fact it's approaching Christmas is a factor as well

I'm sure you can find people in Germany, Spain, Italy, France wherever who are pissed off at the whole thing as well. It's not exactly out of the ordinary to be frustrated by it all.

It seems more to more people love taking the high ground and feeling superior by talking down to people who dare miss normality and say it.
I don’t get the obsession with Christmas, and this sudden need for everyone to see each other. Use zoom or Skype for goodness sake. There should be a focus on people who are in care homes, and haven’t been able to see elderly relatives/ grandchildren but for most people, it should be a case of suck it up.

we don’t need a 5 day period to go wild and visit everyone. People will not stick to this 3 family bubble, there’s no enforcement, and I know people who will just go from family to family for 5 days having a party every day.

of course there are people taking the high ground, but they presumably are not spreading the virus from their ivory tower?

i would suggest there are more people pushing the boundaries to what’s acceptable, or making up scenarios to bend/ circumvent the rules.

too many people want a rule for everything and every single thing that can happen. It’s pretty simple, just reduce contact with people.

I might be baa humbug, but a big Christmas is not needed this year. No need to see people outside your immediate family.

I’d rather that that have a national lockdown in January, which is an inevitable outcome when the R value goes through the roof as a result.
 
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I feel like the Christmas break is just because they know a lot of people are going to break lockdown if it’s in place, which would quite rightly piss everyone else off. Coupled with trying to police it on Christmas Day, it’s probably just not worth having the lockdown. Potential uproar on both sides.
good point. It’s inevitable that people will get together, no matter what the restrictions. Might as well let us be allowable, than fine people on Christmas, that will create outrage.

it’s ridiculous really to have to bow to that pressure, but I think your right, and it’s the only reason we have a United stance in the UK countries for the first time since this started.
 

nme_pro

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Visiting family? Nah get fecked.

Watching a sporting event? Sure, bring 999 of your mates.


Pretty nice of covid to not make its way into such venues.
The bolded bit is completely nonsensical. Why on earth would that be OK? Just leave it until the New Year and make a judgement after we see how much havoc was created by Christmas.

Also, its a tad harsh on the London Boroughs who aren't really contributing much to the total number and getting lumped in with London's restrictions.
 

Nytram Shakes

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good point. It’s inevitable that people will get together, no matter what the restrictions. Might as well let us be allowable, than fine people on Christmas, that will create outrage.

it’s ridiculous really to have to bow to that pressure, but I think your right, and it’s the only reason we have a United stance in the UK countries for the first time since this started.
Its just pathetic that people are so incapable of accepting a smaller Christmas that there isn't a point trying to tell them no.

Whats does that say about how utterly pathetic people are? that despite everyone knowing that it will cost lives(as it will obviously massively spread the virus) and jobs (because companies will deftly have to shut again when there is another lockdown for that). people just don't care as they want a party.
 
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Its just pathetic that people are so incapable of accepting a smaller Christmas that there isn't a point trying to tell them no.

Whats does that say about how utterly pathetic people are? that despite everyone knowing that it will cost lives(as it will obviously massively spread the virus) and jobs (because companies will deftly have to shut again when there is another lockdown for that). people just don't care as they want a party.
I agree.
 

Pogue Mahone

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Its just pathetic that people are so incapable of accepting a smaller Christmas that there isn't a point trying to tell them no.

Whats does that say about how utterly pathetic people are? that despite everyone knowing that it will cost lives(as it will obviously massively spread the virus) and jobs (because companies will deftly have to shut again when there is another lockdown for that). people just don't care as they want a party.
It’s not really a party though, is it? For the vast majority of people it’s extended family spending a day together after being kept apart for most of an absolutely terrible year.

I’m honestly struggling to understand the begrudgery about this.
 

Dave_MUFC

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This logic where we're all just dickheads is a bit weird.

It seems pretty normal people are frustrated with what is happening.

Not being allowed out properly in 9 or so months
It's now winter which is naturally going to piss more people off
A tier system where logic seems to go out the window somewhat
A government which clearly doesn't know what they're doing.
The fact it's approaching Christmas is a factor as well

I'm sure you can find people in Germany, Spain, Italy, France wherever who are pissed off at the whole thing as well. It's not exactly out of the ordinary to be frustrated by it all.

It seems more to more people love taking the high ground and feeling superior by talking down to people who dare miss normality and say it.
I understand the frustrations, and wanting to return to normality. But it's acting upon it which is the issue. Deciding not to wear a mask or follow social distancing because you're sick of it isn't a reasonable thing to do. I'm sick of not being able to visit restaurants, bars, going on holiday, visiting friends and family etc. But I have still spent the best part of the last 6 months mainly just with my missus, and doing outdoor activities.

A few days ago, a bunch of the local independent bars and restaurants around here wrote an open letter to the mayor stating that he should fight for Birmingham to go into Tier 2 so they can open up, and tried to state with percentages that there were more risks going to a supermarket than going to a restaurant, which is completely false, and spreads fake news. I don't appreciate that kind of selfishness. I understand your business is losing loads of money, but people's health has to come first and foremost.
 

Nytram Shakes

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It’s not really a party though, is it? For the vast majority of people it’s extended family spending a day together after being kept apart for most of an absolutely terrible year.

I’m honestly struggling to understand the begrudgery about this.
because its going massively spread the virus, millions of people travelling all over the country mixing inside, it's only going to go one way. The cost is going to be more lives lost and more jobs lost. All for 1 day because of its Christmas. And when there is a spike in deaths people won't accept any responsibility they will blame other people.

There are vaccines on the way, people should be capable of going ok I will see them in a few months, I don't need to see them now I can deal with one small Christmas. but apparently, people can't.
 

bsCallout

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I think I've caught it. Have an insanely bad cough since morning now. Antibiotics arent working. Have isolated myself will try to get tested tommorow
Hope you're OK and it passes quickly.
 

bsCallout

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because its going massively spread the virus, millions of people travelling all over the country mixing inside, it's only going to go one way. The cost is going to be more lives lost and more jobs lost. All for 1 day because of its Christmas. And when there is a spike in deaths people won't accept any responsibility they will blame other people.

There are vaccines on the way, people should be capable of going ok I will see them in a few months, I don't need to see them now I can deal with one small Christmas. but apparently, people can't.
I was watching 'The man who invented christmas' and they talk about people having a day off from work for Christmas like it was completely wrong.

Now we're willing to put lives at risk for that one day.
 

Nytram Shakes

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I was watching 'The man who invented christmas' and they talk about people having a day off from work for Christmas like it was completely wrong.

Now we're willing to put lives at risk for that one day.
Exactly, its just 1 day. Most people aren't even Cristian these days, and those who are sure don't think a God who is meant to be a perfect being would want them to basically knowing spread a virus that harms peoples long term health and lively hoods just for 1 day! Plus even most Christians don't think Jesus was actually born on that date and know its just a hangover from a pagan festival that was adopted by Christianity. So there is no real significance to the date beyond what humans have decided to put on it.

Just accept we can't really have Christmas this year and have huge national/world holiday when vaccinations have been given out next year and normal Xmas next year.
 

golden_blunder

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This logic where we're all just dickheads is a bit weird.

It seems pretty normal people are frustrated with what is happening.

Not being allowed out properly in 9 or so months
It's now winter which is naturally going to piss more people off
A tier system where logic seems to go out the window somewhat
A government which clearly doesn't know what they're doing.
The fact it's approaching Christmas is a factor as well

I'm sure you can find people in Germany, Spain, Italy, France wherever who are pissed off at the whole thing as well. It's not exactly out of the ordinary to be frustrated by it all.

It seems more to more people love taking the high ground and feeling superior by talking down to people who dare miss normality and say it.
I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. All the stuff you say + a percentage of people not taking personal responsibility / deniers
 

Ananke

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because its going massively spread the virus, millions of people travelling all over the country mixing inside, it's only going to go one way. The cost is going to be more lives lost and more jobs lost. All for 1 day because of its Christmas. And when there is a spike in deaths people won't accept any responsibility they will blame other people.

There are vaccines on the way, people should be capable of going ok I will see them in a few months, I don't need to see them now I can deal with one small Christmas. but apparently, people can't.
I'm all for a small Christmas, keeping safe and not risking peoples lives away.

But you can't not empathize with people who bend around the rules, small or big, at this time of the year. You can say 'well I'm managing to do it and I'm struggling why can't they?'. Well your circumstance will never be the exact same as someone else. They'll be people who do it because they don't give a ****, they'll be people doing it because it might be the last Christmas they get to spend with certain family members. They'll be people not doing it because they simply just want to feel high and mighty about themselves as opposed to actually caring about stopping deaths. There will be a lot of reasons and situations, I wouldn't paint it black and white. Saying 'just wait a month' is not a thing. There is no guarantee that will be the case. And we haven't had that guarantee over the last 9 months. There hasn't been a light at the end of the tunnel, most people have obeyed the rules in the idea that doing so will loosen those rules. They've been loosened, tightened, loosened, tightened. When you don't see an end, you'll start to break those rules.

Personally I'm not going to instantly judge someone if they step over the line that's been set. If they start sprinting and pissing all over it, sure.
 

golden_blunder

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It’s not really a party though, is it? For the vast majority of people it’s extended family spending a day together after being kept apart for most of an absolutely terrible year.

I’m honestly struggling to understand the begrudgery about this.
They had a lady on a bbc article who was over the moon saying she was going to see all her family. The way she said it made me think she’s not talking about 4 or 5 people.
I mean if that’s what’s going to happen doesn’t it negate everything leading up to it? You’re inviting infection spread. For what? Because of a Daily Mail campaign?
 

acnumber9

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I think people being judged for visiting relatives at Christmas is harsh. I see where it’s coming from and there’s logic in the argument against it but it ignores the human element. People who haven’t seen their families in months, elderly people who have been isolated and Christmas and family is a big thing for them. It’s not fair to demonise those people. Especially if they are the ones who have already suffered the most.
 
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Pogue Mahone

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I think people being judged for visiting relatives at Christmas is harsh. I see where it’s coming from and there’s logic in the argument against it but it ignores the human element. People who haven’t seen their families in months, elderly people who have been isolated and Christians and family is a big thing for them. It’s not fair to demonise those people. Especially if they are the ones who have already suffered the most.
Exactly. And when you get above a certain age you start to count the number of Christmas’ you have left. My experience of Christmas is that the only people who come anywhere close to the enthusiasm of young children are the elderly. They’ve put up with a much worse year than the rest of us, so it absolutely makes sense to try and find a way for them to have a few days normality at the end of it.

Obviously, there is an onus on their younger relatives to do their best to make it as safe as possible for them. Which is where the personal responsibility comes in. Don’t cancel Christmas but ffs don’t spend the week before spending a day with your grandparents down the pub.
 

Nytram Shakes

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I'm all for a small Christmas, keeping safe and not risking peoples lives away.

But you can't not empathize with people who bend around the rules, small or big, at this time of the year. You can say 'well I'm managing to do it and I'm struggling why can't they?'. Well your circumstance will never be the exact same as someone else. They'll be people who do it because they don't give a ****, they'll be people doing it because it might be the last Christmas they get to spend with certain family members. They'll be people not doing it because they simply just want to feel high and mighty about themselves as opposed to actually caring about stopping deaths. There will be a lot of reasons and situations, I wouldn't paint it black and white. Saying 'just wait a month' is not a thing. There is no guarantee that will be the case. And we haven't had that guarantee over the last 9 months. There hasn't been a light at the end of the tunnel, most people have obeyed the rules in the idea that doing so will loosen those rules. They've been loosened, tightened, loosened, tightened. When you don't see an end, you'll start to break those rules.

Personally I'm not going to instantly judge someone if they step over the line that's been set. If they start sprinting and pissing all over it, sure.
I'm not saying it isn't hard. But unforntunaly life some times is hard, but if the hardest thing you have to cope with is not seeing extended family for a year and have a quiet Christmas, then your life has been pretty amazing! But sympathise with anyone who is struggling and people should be supported in any way that doesn't in danger lives, but just because you are struggling doesn't mean you can do what you want and don't need to accept that your actions have consequences.

The UK is basically saying we don't care about the consequences we want to be able to see each other at xmas. Personly i don't think that is a good idea. but what more annoying is when there is a massive spike in January people arn't going to go
"well this is the choice I made, these deaths are a consequence of that and i and others wanted to happened as we wanted a normal Christmas, and those people who lose their lives and jobs because of another lockdown are acceptable casualties of my need to have a normal xmas"
Of course, people are not going to say that they are going to blame other people, deny any responsibility and demand money to help them through the hard times.
 

Ananke

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if the hardest thing you have to cope with is not seeing extended family for a year and have a quiet Christmas, then your life has been pretty amazing!
Might be amazing for an introverted person. But for an extroverted person, that is not an amazing life. That's hell, you can compare other horrible things that happen in the world to it and say 'well at least this isn't happening to them'...but we're talking about what they know, what they feel, their own struggles. And it's not "extended" family, we're talking about grandparents, some are a lot closer to family than others.

just because you are struggling doesn't mean you can do what you want and don't need to accept that your actions have consequences.
People will be willing to accept the actions they take have consequences. When I get in my car, I accept that by doing so there's a chance something bad may happen. What I do, is limit that bad thing from happening in every way I can. Seatbelt, make sure I'm not drowsy, keep focus. They'll be people who go outside the rules this Christmas, who make sure to isolate in the days prior, who pay attention to their own health and don't ignore symptoms. People who want to see their family, will make sure they do so as risk free as possible. It's family...


The UK is basically saying we don't care about the consequences we want to be able to see each other at xmas. Personly i don't think that is a good idea. but what more annoying is when there is a massive spike in January people arn't going to go
"well this is the choice I made, these deaths are a consequence of that and i and others wanted to happened as we wanted a normal Christmas, and those people who lose their lives and jobs because of another lockdown are acceptable casualties of my need to have a normal xmas"

Of course, people are not going to say that they are going to blame other people, deny any responsibility and demand money to help them through the hard times.
That's a very generalized accusation you're painting on the entirety of the UK population. There could be a massive spike in January based on coming out of lockdown on the 4th December, in the run up to Christmas going into shops, restaurants etc. and that's still following the government rules. You're already saying the massive spike in January that may happen, will be 100% down to Christmas Day and people not following rules. Again, bit wild. And you've already put all the blame on those people. Your mind sounds set before anything has happened, or any kind of evidence/statistics are even up.
 

Brwned

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I honestly dunno how people are handling it in other countries, i would guess that it isn't just UK people who are acting like spoilt brats but i don't live in those countries so I won't coment.

Also, I don't just blame the UK government I think the people of the UK need to take and equal (if not the majority of the blame) people are demanding the relaxing for xmas it's very clear that even if the government didn't allow it then a majority of people would just ignore the rules anyway.
Some people need to see people to cope. Other people need to ridicule others to cope. We're all humans after all. Deeply flawed and far more comfortable judging other people's flaws than our own.

Personally I'm surprised how many people can't empathise with others' need for basic human connection. Something we're literally biologically programmed to do. Either lockdown has made people lose touch with their own sense of humanity or it's just been an ideal time for sociopaths to advocate for their worldview.

In any case, it's worth recognising that we don't all live in the same world. We haven't all spent the last 6 months with the missus, living a comfortable life. 8.2m people lived alone in the UK last year. Many of whom are old, and more than a few widows / widowers. My granny has been alone for over a decade now, out in the countryside, miles away from anyone in her family. There is a very real chance this will be her last christmas, as she's gotten significantly worse this year - perhaps partly due to lockdown, but also simply because she's nearing 90. She understands the risks. She doesn't fit very neatly into your archetype of spoilt brats who just want a bit of a party, unfortunately. Millions don't. In the UK and elsewhere. It's not a reflection of the decline of society but just a reflection of society.

We are social beings, and it has been a fundamental part of not just this "selfish" culture you have been brought into, but basically all cultures we've ever known. I get the impression you want to rip apart that culture or tear off those blots in the framework that allow these awful creatures to behave so irrationally. You just want them to do the "right" thing. It's a bit like the Christian missionaries in Tasmania in the 19th century. They wanted those barbaric creatures to distance themselves from their terrible rituals and follow the enlightened path. Eventually when all elements of their culture were outlawed, ridiculed or hidden away, they sort of lost the will to live. Some stopped having children, some committed suicide. Their culture - regardless of what others' thought of it - gave them a reason to be. It was also the primary way they accumulated enough resources to live healthy lives.

That clearly isn't the situation we're in here, but I'd suggest there are some echoes. Mainly in the complete lack of empathy for how others live and what value they get from living that way, and a complete disregard for the consequences of not even attempting to empathise. If they don't live according to our values then they're not living right. Getting people to give up their reason to be is not a question of willpower.
 
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RedRover

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With swathes of the country in Tier 3 till god knows when, the prospect of "lockdown 3" is fairly moot. Other than not being able to go the shops (a limited worry straight after Christmas) or get your hair cut, it's not all that different.
 

GloryHunter07

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It’s not really a party though, is it? For the vast majority of people it’s extended family spending a day together after being kept apart for most of an absolutely terrible year.

I’m honestly struggling to understand the begrudgery about this.
Agreed. Obviously there is a degree of risk involved but I expect the vast majority will be sensible.
 

Oggmonster

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It not sure it’s just British people. Be interesting to see if there are similar reactions elsewhere.

there’s certainly a lot of people who can’t see the point in the restrictions, and who are taking the piss. Perhaps because they can’t see the implications of their actions immediately?

we are certainty not a country United that’s pulling in the same direction. That’s very clear, and not just from corona.



I don’t get the obsession with Christmas, and this sudden need for everyone to see each other. Use zoom or Skype for goodness sake. There should be a focus on people who are in care homes, and haven’t been able to see elderly relatives/ grandchildren but for most people, it should be a case of suck it up.

we don’t need a 5 day period to go wild and visit everyone. People will not stick to this 3 family bubble, there’s no enforcement, and I know people who will just go from family to family for 5 days having a party every day.

of course there are people taking the high ground, but they presumably are not spreading the virus from their ivory tower?

i would suggest there are more people pushing the boundaries to what’s acceptable, or making up scenarios to bend/ circumvent the rules.

too many people want a rule for everything and every single thing that can happen. It’s pretty simple, just reduce contact with people.

I might be baa humbug, but a big Christmas is not needed this year. No need to see people outside your immediate family.

I’d rather that that have a national lockdown in January, which is an inevitable outcome when the R value goes through the roof as a result.
I think Christmas is obviously traditionally seen as a family time for most people. I'm not to fussed about christmas day but I love the christmas period as it's a time to be with friends/family and a break from work.

I agree with what you're saying and I'm the same re another lockdown but I can equally see why people are frustrated by it all and it seems pretty reasonable to be annoyed by it (I'm not advocating breaking rules etc just I can sympathise with the frustration)

I understand the frustrations, and wanting to return to normality. But it's acting upon it which is the issue. Deciding not to wear a mask or follow social distancing because you're sick of it isn't a reasonable thing to do. I'm sick of not being able to visit restaurants, bars, going on holiday, visiting friends and family etc. But I have still spent the best part of the last 6 months mainly just with my missus, and doing outdoor activities.

A few days ago, a bunch of the local independent bars and restaurants around here wrote an open letter to the mayor stating that he should fight for Birmingham to go into Tier 2 so they can open up, and tried to state with percentages that there were more risks going to a supermarket than going to a restaurant, which is completely false, and spreads fake news. I don't appreciate that kind of selfishness. I understand your business is losing loads of money, but people's health has to come first and foremost.
Yeah I don't think people should be breaking rules or anything but I just feel that it is perfectly normal to be pissed off by it and I don't think it makes anyone dickheads if they're annoyed by the rules. The rules though are constantly seemingly lacking logic at times and I can see why it pisses people off. It pisses me off as I live in the north west and where I am the rate is lower than the UK average and it's still dropping yet I'm in Tier 3 for the next few weeks still!

I agree it's bad to spread false information or fake news but I also think it is healthy to question the governments decisions cos they have U-Turned or been proven wrong on so many. I also sympathise hugely with restaurant and bar owners in particular as so many of them are not getting the help they need and will clearly be gone within the next 12 months which must be horrible.

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. All the stuff you say + a percentage of people not taking personal responsibility / deniers
Yeah definitely is people who don't help by denying it etc as well. Think these Tiers etc just annoy people even more, at least in a national lockdown they're all in it, must be hugely frustrating for business owners who can see a restaurant open a few miles away for example.
 

VeevaVee

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There’s 100% going to be old people dying because of it. So many people acting moronic, there’s no way everyone gonna use common sense precaution.
 

acnumber9

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Jun 21, 2006
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Exactly. And when you get above a certain age you start to count the number of Christmas’ you have left. My experience of Christmas is that the only people who come anywhere close to the enthusiasm of young children are the elderly. They’ve put up with a much worse year than the rest of us, so it absolutely makes sense to try and find a way for them to have a few days normality at the end of it.

Obviously, there is an onus on their younger relatives to do their best to make it as safe as possible for them. Which is where the personal responsibility comes in. Don’t cancel Christmas but ffs don’t spend the week before spending a day with your grandparents down the pub.
My post should’ve said Christmas instead of Christians though. Nobody cares about them.