SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

[Hernandez - BFA]

Had my vaccine on Thursday. I always react badly to vaccines, but it felt as if the peak of my COVID hit me in one evening. I felt terrible. I’m back to normal now though. I’ve had COVID twice already and I’d say my reaction was the worst I’ve felt.

Nevertheless, take the vaccine when it’s offered to you.

My thoughts over the last few weeks:

1. We’re seeing an increase of fungal infections post COVID. I’ve seen a few cases now of patients recovering from COVID, but then deteriorate quickly while still being in hospital. Increased oxygen requirement. Treated with strong antibiotics in case it’s a bacterial pneumonia on top (Meropenem for those interested). Does nothing. Chest X-ray appears worse, and a fungal blood test given its appearance comes back positive. I’ve personally seen three cases now, and I’m hearing a few of my colleagues seeing more. Wouldn’t be surprise to see an article on this soon.
2. Still a lot of death, and my “high dependency COVID” ward is now jam packed again. ITU are completely full so unfortunately we’ve had patients die because they are in no position to be transferred and there is no where in the hospital to be safely intubated and cared for. Yesterday alone I had to do 4 family phone calls explaining to them that they are unfortunately dying and our treatment has not worked and that we’d be turning our focus to keeping their loved one comfortable. I was depressed as feck by the end of yesterday.
3. Starting to see some benefit from the use of methylprednisalone according to my ITU colleagues. Still early days but hopefully it’ll be something that is explored more.

 

[rcoobc]

I don't understand what sinister gains Bill Gates would get out of this?

It's all about controlling Maggie, 89, from Milton Keynes

 

[Pexbo]

Had my vaccine on Thursday. I always react badly to vaccines, but it felt as if the peak of my COVID hit me in one evening. I felt terrible. I’m back to normal now though. I’ve had COVID twice already and I’d say my reaction was the worst I’ve felt.

Nevertheless, take the vaccine when it’s offered to you.

My thoughts over the last few weeks:

1. We’re seeing an increase of fungal infections post COVID. I’ve seen a few cases now of patients recovering from COVID, but then deteriorate quickly while still being in hospital. Increased oxygen requirement. Treated with strong antibiotics in case it’s a bacterial pneumonia on top (Meropenem for those interested). Does nothing. Chest X-ray appears worse, and a fungal blood test given its appearance comes back positive. I’ve personally seen three cases now, and I’m hearing a few of my colleagues seeing more. Wouldn’t be surprise to see an article on this soon.
2. Still a lot of death, and my “high dependency COVID” ward is now jam packed again. ITU are completely full so unfortunately we’ve had patients die because they are in no position to be transferred and there is no where in the hospital to be safely intubated and cared for. Yesterday alone I had to do 4 family phone calls explaining to them that they are unfortunately dying and our treatment has not worked and that we’d be turning our focus to keeping their loved one comfortable. I was depressed as feck by the end of yesterday.
3. Starting to see some benefit from the use of methylprednisalone according to my ITU colleagues. Still early days but hopefully it’ll be something that is explored more.

Its a tough read but well done for all you are doing. It boils my blood that people like you are dealing with shit like this on a daily basis and people think it’s a good idea to arrange maskless marches in protest of their reduced lib-urh-tees.

 

[11101]

Worrying for the UK is cases are rising again, 21672 today and hospital admissions rising to 1622.

After the Nov-Dec restrictions, cases came down to 14k from a peak of 24k and admissions down to 1200 from 2k

I'm not surprised. I've been back a week and it's so relaxed compared to continental Europe. Coming though France the roads were virtually empty but driving up from Dover it was like a normal day. I'm quarantined in a Tier 2 area and looking out of the window, seems like I'm the only one who cares.

 

[golden_blunder]

When I was walking over Tower Bridge a Chinook flew directly over probably only 15m above the bridge, which was pretty cool but also emphasised the whole eary feeling of being in some kind of oppressive regime reality. The police stopping and searching half the people on the bridge didn't exactly help either, although I presume there was a non covid related reason why that was happening.

Have to say although I don't agree with these anti lockdown protests at all, I can see how people feel like their freedoms are being taken away and end up feeling really anxious about it. It's quite scary how dead everything is.

Also the trains are still a big problem. Even in an empty city they're still pretty packed. I did think it was silly not having any outdoor christmas markets or things that are minimal risk to cheer people up, but the problem would be that they'd draw so many people and then the trains/transport would also then be a much bigger problem.

I don't really see the point in delaying the tier 3 decision if it's basically inevitable. I also don't get why they can't just close the schools a week early for Christmas. I'm strongly for keeping them open in general as fair education is vitally important, but the last week of term before Christmas is hardly peak learning time, and supposedly the rates are rising most rapidly among school ages.

Welcome to everyday life during many years growing up in NI

 

[golden_blunder]

Had my vaccine on Thursday. I always react badly to vaccines, but it felt as if the peak of my COVID hit me in one evening. I felt terrible. I’m back to normal now though. I’ve had COVID twice already and I’d say my reaction was the worst I’ve felt.

Nevertheless, take the vaccine when it’s offered to you.

My thoughts over the last few weeks:

1. We’re seeing an increase of fungal infections post COVID. I’ve seen a few cases now of patients recovering from COVID, but then deteriorate quickly while still being in hospital. Increased oxygen requirement. Treated with strong antibiotics in case it’s a bacterial pneumonia on top (Meropenem for those interested). Does nothing. Chest X-ray appears worse, and a fungal blood test given its appearance comes back positive. I’ve personally seen three cases now, and I’m hearing a few of my colleagues seeing more. Wouldn’t be surprise to see an article on this soon.
2. Still a lot of death, and my “high dependency COVID” ward is now jam packed again. ITU are completely full so unfortunately we’ve had patients die because they are in no position to be transferred and there is no where in the hospital to be safely intubated and cared for. Yesterday alone I had to do 4 family phone calls explaining to them that they are unfortunately dying and our treatment has not worked and that we’d be turning our focus to keeping their loved one comfortable. I was depressed as feck by the end of yesterday.
3. Starting to see some benefit from the use of methylprednisalone according to my ITU colleagues. Still early days but hopefully it’ll be something that is explored more.

Thank you & to the other medical staff etc posting here. It sounds horrendous, and like @Pexbo said below it makes my blood boil that a percentage of society choose to ignore or dismiss it. It’s depressing actually

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Yeah I understood the rationale behind the 10 day period, but not the rationale between switching between 14 and 10. I had thought that by day 10, if you've had no symptoms you can be sure you will not transmit the virus as a symptomatic or asymptomatic carrier.

After reading the CDC reports it turns out a minority of people develop symptoms on day 12, and so theoretically could be at their most infectious in days 10-14. So the previous travel guidelines of 14 days wasn't nonsensical but just exceptionally cautious. Fair enough. Still seems a little strange to me that they'd change these guidelines now when the evidence doesn't seem to have changed.



Very cool.

This analysis was published in Ireland recently. They reckon about 85% of symptomatic cases will have symptoms by day 10. 95% by day 14. Which doesn’t seem to have changed from earlier analyses. It does seem a bit foolhardy to me to deliberately allow 10% of cases stop self isolating before they have symptoms.

 

[NinjaFletch]

This analysis was published in Ireland recently. They reckon about 85% of symptomatic cases will have symptoms by day 10. 95% by day 14. Which doesn’t seem to have changed from earlier analyses. It does seem a bit foolhardy to me to deliberately allow 10% of cases stop self isolating before they have symptoms.

They've been worried throughout that people aren't isolating when they're supposed to, and a shorter isolation period has been oft cited as a way that might make people do it. The trade off obviously is that a greater number of people properly self isolating when it's most important is worth missing some transmission at the end.

I'm not at all qualified to say whether that's sensible or daft, but I'm sure that's the thinking.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

They've been worried throughout that people aren't isolating when they're supposed to, and a shorter isolation period has been oft cited as a way that might make people do it. The trade off obviously is that a greater number of people properly self isolating when it's most important is worth missing some transmission at the end.

I'm not at all qualified to say whether that's sensible or daft, but I'm sure that's the thinking.

Actually, that’s a fair point.

 

[sammsky1]

Deaths per million
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/

 

[Brwned]

This analysis was published in Ireland recently. They reckon about 85% of symptomatic cases will have symptoms by day 10. 95% by day 14. Which doesn’t seem to have changed from earlier analyses. It does seem a bit foolhardy to me to deliberately allow 10% of cases stop self isolating before they have symptoms.

Good info, cheers! I do think the 14 days was just too long for the majority so there had to be a trade-off between the medical science and the behavioural science. My main concern was my pregnant sister, so between days 10-14 I'll go back to the family home but play it safe for an extra few days regardless of the legal change.

 

[FrankDrebin]

Encountered a little Covid conspiracy march today in central Bournemouth. Always good for cheap amusement.

 

[roseguy64]

Tested positive. Did the test as a precaution on Wednesday. Started feeling some aches last weekend and decided to do it. Also, body temp got a bit higher and my coughing increased. (I have a coughing issue that predates covid. The meds I used didn't mesh with me so I stopped. Gonna eventually get a second opinion for different meds for that once I deal with this.

Only major issue I've had really is Thursday night/Friday morning when I had pain in my chest that lasted about 4 hours. It ebbed between dull uncomfortableness and then sometimes felt heavy. Not like I was gonna die or anything but painful. So it's mostly been joint pain, coughing and low grade fever. If I'm only coughing by this time next weekend I should be good to go I hope.

 

[Wibble]

This analysis was published in Ireland recently. They reckon about 85% of symptomatic cases will have symptoms by day 10. 95% by day 14. Which doesn’t seem to have changed from earlier analyses. It does seem a bit foolhardy to me to deliberately allow 10% of cases stop self isolating before they have symptoms.

Foolhardy? Sounds truly idiotic to me.

 

[Wibble]

I’ve had COVID twice already and I’d say my reaction was the worst I’ve felt.

Were you tested both times and how long between the two events?

Given the relative lack of documented asws of reinfections you might be a useful case study for researchers.

 

[Isotope]

Had my vaccine on Thursday. I always react badly to vaccines, but it felt as if the peak of my COVID hit me in one evening. I felt terrible. I’m back to normal now though. I’ve had COVID twice already and I’d say my reaction was the worst I’ve felt.

Nevertheless, take the vaccine when it’s offered to you.

My thoughts over the last few weeks:

1. We’re seeing an increase of fungal infections post COVID. I’ve seen a few cases now of patients recovering from COVID, but then deteriorate quickly while still being in hospital. Increased oxygen requirement. Treated with strong antibiotics in case it’s a bacterial pneumonia on top (Meropenem for those interested). Does nothing. Chest X-ray appears worse, and a fungal blood test given its appearance comes back positive. I’ve personally seen three cases now, and I’m hearing a few of my colleagues seeing more. Wouldn’t be surprise to see an article on this soon.
2. Still a lot of death, and my “high dependency COVID” ward is now jam packed again. ITU are completely full so unfortunately we’ve had patients die because they are in no position to be transferred and there is no where in the hospital to be safely intubated and cared for. Yesterday alone I had to do 4 family phone calls explaining to them that they are unfortunately dying and our treatment has not worked and that we’d be turning our focus to keeping their loved one comfortable. I was depressed as feck by the end of yesterday.
3. Starting to see some benefit from the use of methylprednisalone according to my ITU colleagues. Still early days but hopefully it’ll be something that is explored more.

Total respect for you and your coworkers, man. The bit about talking to dying families is disheartening. I just wouldn't know what to say and do.

 

[zing]

Had my vaccine on Thursday. I always react badly to vaccines, but it felt as if the peak of my COVID hit me in one evening. I felt terrible. I’m back to normal now though. I’ve had COVID twice already and I’d say my reaction was the worst I’ve felt.

Nevertheless, take the vaccine when it’s offered to you.

My thoughts over the last few weeks:

1. We’re seeing an increase of fungal infections post COVID. I’ve seen a few cases now of patients recovering from COVID, but then deteriorate quickly while still being in hospital. Increased oxygen requirement. Treated with strong antibiotics in case it’s a bacterial pneumonia on top (Meropenem for those interested). Does nothing. Chest X-ray appears worse, and a fungal blood test given its appearance comes back positive. I’ve personally seen three cases now, and I’m hearing a few of my colleagues seeing more. Wouldn’t be surprise to see an article on this soon.
2. Still a lot of death, and my “high dependency COVID” ward is now jam packed again. ITU are completely full so unfortunately we’ve had patients die because they are in no position to be transferred and there is no where in the hospital to be safely intubated and cared for. Yesterday alone I had to do 4 family phone calls explaining to them that they are unfortunately dying and our treatment has not worked and that we’d be turning our focus to keeping their loved one comfortable. I was depressed as feck by the end of yesterday.
3. Starting to see some benefit from the use of methylprednisalone according to my ITU colleagues. Still early days but hopefully it’ll be something that is explored more.

#1 got covered in Indian media today. What is the incidence rate? It said 5 people in a hospital here developed a fungal infection and 2 died.

 

[Hernandez - BFA]

Were you tested both times and how long between the two events?

Given the relative lack of documented asws of reinfections you might be a useful case study for researchers.

First was in March/April time, second was mid-October - and yes tested twice.

You’ll be surprised. We’ve had a few cases of double infections to be honest. Not as uncommon as it’s made out on media. I’m definitely not saying we’re seeing more and more re-infected as that would be a lie. But there were a few staff members before me, and I’ve managed maybe two patients with a second infection.

#1 got covered in Indian media today. What is the incidence rate? It said 5 people in a hospital here developed a fungal infection and 2 died.

That was quick! Difficult to say as I think its literally in the last week that we came to test it and found them to be positive. Which then begs the question of how many of the previous cases we had seen with a strange pattern of COVID deterioration was actually a susceptible fungal infection hitting someone while their immune was temporarily weakened.

A friend of mine said that after she had COVID, she had about two to three weeks of vaginal thrush straight after it, which is typically fungal (this was mid-October time too). At the time, I definitely didn’t make the connection because she said she was prone to getting them every now and then - but she did say this was the worst case she had.

 

[Beans]

Had my vaccine on Thursday. I always react badly to vaccines, but it felt as if the peak of my COVID hit me in one evening. I felt terrible. I’m back to normal now though. I’ve had COVID twice already and I’d say my reaction was the worst I’ve felt.

Nevertheless, take the vaccine when it’s offered to you.

My thoughts over the last few weeks:

1. We’re seeing an increase of fungal infections post COVID. I’ve seen a few cases now of patients recovering from COVID, but then deteriorate quickly while still being in hospital. Increased oxygen requirement. Treated with strong antibiotics in case it’s a bacterial pneumonia on top (Meropenem for those interested). Does nothing. Chest X-ray appears worse, and a fungal blood test given its appearance comes back positive. I’ve personally seen three cases now, and I’m hearing a few of my colleagues seeing more. Wouldn’t be surprise to see an article on this soon.
2. Still a lot of death, and my “high dependency COVID” ward is now jam packed again. ITU are completely full so unfortunately we’ve had patients die because they are in no position to be transferred and there is no where in the hospital to be safely intubated and cared for. Yesterday alone I had to do 4 family phone calls explaining to them that they are unfortunately dying and our treatment has not worked and that we’d be turning our focus to keeping their loved one comfortable. I was depressed as feck by the end of yesterday.
3. Starting to see some benefit from the use of methylprednisalone according to my ITU colleagues. Still early days but hopefully it’ll be something that is explored more.

Have you heard about the MATH+ Protocol created by the Frontline Covid 19 Critical Care Alliance? They're a group of experts with 2,000 papers between them, their Dr. Kory had testified on behalf of the group to the Senate months ago about the benefits of steroids which was adopted more widely, and just testified about recent studies showing remarkable results with ivermectin and standard care.

In his testimony he mentioned a Dr. Hector Carvallo in Argentina heading their coronavirus response, who used ivermectin nasal sprays as a prophylaxis for 800 healthcare workers and 0 got ill, while 400 that weren't treated had 237 healthcare workers getting sick.

Here's a link to their protocol and a 10 minute excerpt from the testimony of him begging the FDA to look at their presentation of the new data. Apologies it's a Fox feed, but it's just a live feed without commentary.

https://www.evms.edu/media/evms_pub...cine/EVMS_Critical_Care_COVID-19_Protocol.pdf

 

[zing]

First was in March/April time, second was mid-October - and yes tested twice.

You’ll be surprised. We’ve had a few cases of double infections to be honest. Not as uncommon as it’s made out on media. I’m definitely not saying we’re seeing more and more re-infected as that would be a lie. But there were a few staff members before me, and I’ve managed maybe two patients with a second infection.



That was quick! Difficult to say as I think its literally in the last week that we came to test it and found them to be positive. Which then begs the question of how many of the previous cases we had seen with a strange pattern of COVID deterioration was actually a susceptible fungal infection hitting someone while their immune was temporarily weakened.

A friend of mine said that after she had COVID, she had about two to three weeks of vaginal thrush straight after it, which is typically fungal (this was mid-October time too). At the time, I definitely didn’t make the connection because she said she was prone to getting them every now and then - but she did say this was the worst case she had.

https://in.news.yahoo.com/mucormycosis-fungal-infection-mortality-rate-165958750.html

 

[Anustart89]

In Sweden we’re being hit hard by the second wave now.

Interesringly though, none of the patients in our Covid unit are showing any signs of multi organ failure. During the spring we had many cases that presented with lung disease and circulatory failure/renal failure etc, but the second wave has only been isolated lung disease, even those coming from home that we’ve admitted straight to the ICU.

 

[groovyalbert]

In Sweden we’re being hit hard by the second wave now.

Interesringly though, none of the patients in our Covid unit are showing any signs of multi organ failure. During the spring we had many cases that presented with lung disease and circulatory failure/renal failure etc, but the second wave has only been isolated lung disease, even those coming from home that we’ve admitted straight to the ICU.

Is this because we're better at handling the virus in it's earlier stages of symptomatic of something else?

 

[Hernandez - BFA]

Have you heard about the MATH+ Protocol created by the Frontline Covid 19 Critical Care Alliance? They're a group of experts with 2,000 papers between them, their Dr. Kory had testified on behalf of the group to the Senate months ago about the benefits of steroids which was adopted more widely, and just testified about recent studies showing remarkable results with ivermectin and standard care.

In his testimony he mentioned a Dr. Hector Carvallo in Argentina heading their coronavirus response, who used ivermectin nasal sprays as a prophylaxis for 800 healthcare workers and 0 got ill, while 400 that weren't treated had 237 healthcare workers getting sick.

Here's a link to their protocol and a 10 minute excerpt from the testimony of him begging the FDA to look at their presentation of the new data. Apologies it's a Fox feed, but it's just a live feed without commentary.

https://www.evms.edu/media/evms_pub...cine/EVMS_Critical_Care_COVID-19_Protocol.pdf

Very interesting! Will have a gander at this later on- thanks!

https://in.news.yahoo.com/mucormycosis-fungal-infection-mortality-rate-165958750.html

I think we've mainly seen Aspergillus infections, but I have heard Mucormycosis is getting more annual findings in the UK in recent years.
We do a blood test called Procalcitonin which gives a good indicator of how likely someone with COVID will suffer a septic response. If it's above a certain number, we've seen evidence to say that starting an unwell COVID patient (who is requiring hospital admission) on antibiotics is beneficial.
If we're seeing more of these cases, we may have to do more regular fungal blood tests after they've seemingly recovered from their initial bout of requiring oxygen supplementation; or (less likely) start people on anti-fungals and antibiotics prematurely before the blood test result is returned.

I think it entering peak Winter soon will make this all the more complicated. We'll be seeing infective bouts of COPD and typical community acquired pneumonias. Unfortunately, COVID will have to be the diagnosis to rule out first. I'm sure it happens in most hospitals now, but once a patient is deemed requiring admission from our Emergency Department - they get swabbed and only once that swab is returned with a result will they be moved to a "red" ward (COVID) or a "green" ward (non-COVID). We're already seeing patients waiting +18 hours in an uncomfortable hospital A&E bed depending on what time the swab is sent off - and that's not even mentioning the inevitable of patients getting a result back but can't be moved because there is no bed space in the hospital.

Logistically, if the influx of typical winter pressure patients present to A&E, then I can't even comprehend how fecked some hospitals are going to be given that there will be the addition of COVID cases who may unfortunately be mixing with the non-COVID patients in the assessment bays.

 

[jojojo]

I think it entering peak Winter soon will make this all the more complicated. We'll be seeing infective bouts of COPD and typical community acquired pneumonias. Unfortunately, COVID will have to be the diagnosis to rule out first. I'm sure it happens in most hospitals now, but once a patient is deemed requiring admission from our Emergency Department - they get swabbed and only once that swab is returned with a result will they be moved to a "red" ward (COVID) or a "green" ward (non-COVID). We're already seeing patients waiting +18 hours in an uncomfortable hospital A&E bed depending on what time the swab is sent off - and that's not even mentioning the inevitable of patients getting a result back but can't be moved because there is no bed space in the hospital.

Logistically, if the influx of typical winter pressure patients present to A&E, then I can't even comprehend how fecked some hospitals are going to be given that there will be the addition of COVID cases who may unfortunately be mixing with the non-COVID patients in the assessment bays.

That's one of the really scary things about the high case numbers. It raises the spectre of hospital acquired transmission again - especially if there are delays in testing.

Just out of curiosity. I know that these 30 minute tests are viewed as inadequate, but couldn't they be run while the "real" PCR test results were awaited? Even if they only get 50% of the cases, that's still better than nothing - especially if the theory that they probably show the (currently) most infectious people is correct.

 

[Hernandez - BFA]

That's one of the really scary things about the high case numbers. It raises the spectre of hospital acquired transmission again - especially if there are delays in testing.

Just out of curiosity. I know that these 30 minute tests are viewed as inadequate, but couldn't they be run while the "real" PCR test results were awaited? Even if they only get 50% of the cases, that's still better than nothing - especially if the theory that they probably show the (currently) most infectious people is correct.

I think the risk outweighs the benefit. As you said, they aren't particularly sensitive tests the "rapid" ones. If it comes up as a false negative, and then they get moved up to a clean ward then the shit hits the fan. I know the real PCR tests aren't 100% accurate but its only thing to truly go off.

I think the very difficult thing is that most Emergency Departments are split into "?COVID" areas and areas that include patients who don't come in with COVID symptoms, like chest pain, abdominal pain or a fracture.

The issue lies is that within the ?COVID areas, you'll get the bog standard patient with a bacterial pneumonia and actually isn't COVID, next door to a bed (to be fair separated by a wall) with a COVID patient. Unfortunately, they can present initially the same way and really the risk of the non-COVID patient getting COVID goes up.

Likewise, a man with chest pain in the non-COVID area may be COVID + but is asymptomatic, and his bed is next door to a guy who doesn't have COVID (separated by a curtain).

A lot of waffle there - but basically I think it's practically impossible to completely eradicate hospital-acquired COVID. Minimising it is definitely achievable but unless you get everyone's COVID status before they enter the A&E reception, then it's impossible.

Hence why a vaccine and proof that they've had it goes a long way.

 

[Jacko21]

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[jojojo]

I think the risk outweighs the benefit. As you said, they aren't particularly sensitive tests the "rapid" ones. If it comes up as a false negative, and then they get moved up to a clean ward then the shit hits the fan. I know the real PCR tests aren't 100% accurate but its only thing to truly go off.

I must admit I was thinking of using them the opposite way round - to start pulling (some of) the positive ones away from mixed/non-covid areas into covid streams. Interesting to read how that admissions process is being handled, thanks for taking the time to explain what's happening.

 

[Dave_MUFC]

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Meanwhile the UK has gone in the opposite direction, and people still protest over their rights being taken away

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I think the risk outweighs the benefit. As you said, they aren't particularly sensitive tests the "rapid" ones. If it comes up as a false negative, and then they get moved up to a clean ward then the shit hits the fan. I know the real PCR tests aren't 100% accurate but its only thing to truly go off.

I think the very difficult thing is that most Emergency Departments are split into "?COVID" areas and areas that include patients who don't come in with COVID symptoms, like chest pain, abdominal pain or a fracture.

The issue lies is that within the ?COVID areas, you'll get the bog standard patient with a bacterial pneumonia and actually isn't COVID, next door to a bed (to be fair separated by a wall) with a COVID patient. Unfortunately, they can present initially the same way and really the risk of the non-COVID patient getting COVID goes up.

Likewise, a man with chest pain in the non-COVID area may be COVID + but is asymptomatic, and his bed is next door to a guy who doesn't have COVID (separated by a curtain).

A lot of waffle there - but basically I think it's practically impossible to completely eradicate hospital-acquired COVID. Minimising it is definitely achievable but unless you get everyone's COVID status before they enter the A&E reception, then it's impossible.

Hence why a vaccine and proof that they've had it goes a long way.

They definitely shouldn’t be used to rule out covid but couldn’t they be used to screen for and isolate the really infectious cases a little bit quicker? Could maybe do a quick screening test for every patient (and relative!) at the door of A&E, with results available by the time they hit triage. Obviously any cases with any kind of clinical suspicion would need a negative PCR before you rule out covid.

 

[djembatheking]

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Will people behave in Germany and respect restrictions or just ignore them like a lot in the UK ?

 

[Stack]

Is there any indication when the Govt in the UK thinks it will have rolled out the vaccine to the majority of the population? Any timeline?

 

[Foxbatt]

Good article in The Guardian about what happened.
In short most of the Asian countries that controlled it realised what it was, A Virus. The western countries thought it was A Disease.

 

[F-Red]

Is there any indication when the Govt in the UK thinks it will have rolled out the vaccine to the majority of the population? Any timeline?

Anyone under 50 I would say the latter half of 2021.

 

[berbatrick]

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German posters - I saw news of anti-lockdown protests in Berlin and some other places. I know at least some of the groups involved were left-wing and some were basically the German branch of QAnon.
What is the political split of anti-lockdown people? And, is Berlin worse than other areas?

 

[Stanley Road]

Will people behave in Germany and respect restrictions or just ignore them like a lot in the UK ?

We will probably get the same in NL this week. We've gone from 4k per day to 10k in 2 weeks. It will never work unless you have a proper, harsh, military managed lockdown. People aren't following the rules anymore. They did in the beginning and we got to 0 deaths per day.

 

[berbatrick]

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[djembatheking]

We will probably get the same in NL this week. We've gone from 4k per day to 10k in 2 weeks. It will never work unless you have a proper, harsh, military managed lockdown. People aren't following the rules anymore. They did in the beginning and we got to 0 deaths per day.

It is the same here in Wales, apparently the NHS will be pretty much dedicated to covid soon, in South Wales yesterday a man had to wait outside hospital for 19 hours with suspected stroke. I went to get some shopping for my in laws today who haven`t been out since March and saw 2 people that said they have given up and are just carrying on as normal now. My next door neighbour has all sorts in and out of his house all day . It is all or nothing here it seems , just got to look after your own I suppose.

 

[Penna]

It is the same here in Wales, apparently the NHS will be pretty much dedicated to covid soon, in South Wales yesterday a man had to wait outside hospital for 19 hours with suspected stroke. I went to get some shopping for my in laws today who haven`t been out since March and saw 2 people that said they have given up and are just carrying on as normal now. My next door neighbour has all sorts in and out of his house all day . It is all or nothing here it seems , just got to look after your own I suppose.

As Stanley says, with no enforcement you get low levels of compliance, and even those people will get tired of it as time goes on. I honestly think people were more inclined to follow the rules when they were the same everywhere.

 

[utdalltheway]

As Stanley says, with no enforcement you get low levels of compliance, and even those people will get tired of it as time goes on. I honestly think people were more inclined to follow the rules when they were the same everywhere.

And if they know that everyone else is following them. The high profile rule breakers in govmnt (Cummings, etc) really hurts the ability of the govmnt to try to force more stringent rules. People will be just saying “it’s one rule for them and another for us”.

 

[jojojo]

Is there any indication when the Govt in the UK thinks it will have rolled out the vaccine to the majority of the population? Any timeline?

As usual, it depends.

If the AstraZeneca vaccine manages to do a more convincing job with the data it's got and with whatever it can assemble over the next few weeks - it could get its emergency use approval and start rolling out before the end of January. They think they can ramp up production fast so we might see all the highest risk (over 70s, healthcare workers and the clinically extremely vulnerable) done by early Q2. If we're relying on Pfizer/Moderna it takes the whole of Q1/2 to get there, and that assumes Pfizer/Moderrna don't hit further production issues. Better than nothing, and a massive reduction in the death rates, but still not great.

The other possible gap fillers are Novavax and J&J - if their current Phase 3 trials show the right efficacy/safety. Both of those may be ready for emergency approval late Q1. In theory at least both of those could ramp up production quickly. If those are available then Q2 could see a real increase in availability - probably enough to cover all the NHS priority groups including the over 50s. If that happens then by summer Europe will be a much more normal place - not business as usual perhaps but close.

In other words - fingers crossed for AstraZeneca (revised report!), J&J and/or Novavax.

The BBC has done a nice article at https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55274833 that includes things like the approximate number of people in each priority group.