SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

Wibble

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Get vaccinated or kill Penna you selfish bastards
I mean it didn't really take a genius to know that things would be tougher in the winter than the summer and that fatigue would set in by then. There hasn't been a point since covid surfaced where there was any reason to believe it wouldn't behave like other viruses and come in waves..and even without fatigue the winter was always going to be tougher for people restrictions wise due to the lack of daylight hours, colder temperatures, etc.

Places like supermarkets though are where you can put control measures in place so people have no choice, and actually waiting in a queue for 10 minutes to get in a supermarket was very little hassle. Particularly as half that time was made up not having to feck about longer or wait in queues once you were inside...and even more time than that saved by it being easier and insentivised to do all your shoppnig in one go (going to a supermarket 3 times a week as opposed to 1 is also an infection risk factor).

Masks still confuse me really. I've seen plenty of knowledgeable people explain why they are important, but the infection numbers and the places infections seem to occur in (according to the data) just don't back it up at all. If they were that important for example then not wearing them in a school or workplace, but then wearing them to go in a shop, makes absolutely no sense...and they'd also have had a tangible impact on numbers in places like London with the amount of people on public transport every day...and they just haven't. They either just don't very much or we are using them stupidly.

I mean here for example there was a high proportion back in March-June of the type of idiot who made a point of not wearing one, yet through the whole first wave the infection rate here remained low and rose very moderately compared to other areas of the country. THen in December when there was generally a lot more compliance it's shot up here faster than anywhere in the Country including London. Hard to put a finger on why but it does suggest there's far more significant factors at play than how many people are wearing masks when they are told to.
Whatever the infection rates they would be even worse without masks. They protect you a bit from getting infected and if you have covid they significantly reduce your ability to pass it on., but like most individual measures they aren't a silver bullet.
 

christy87

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Well take heart from the fact that you wearing a mask doing physical work is helping make it safer for other people. You are a good bugger as far as Im concerned
I have no problems with wearing a mask while this is going on, but once we get back to normality, this is one of the few things I look forward to.

On a different note my aunt uncle and and 5 cousins got it over Xmas the aunt and uncle came through it alright one of the cousins lost 2 stone because of it and he's going to take a while longer to recover, the uncle was the one we were worried about as he had to get his leg amputated last year because of cancer.

Hearing of more sever cases in the last 2 weeks than the whole time since it started and not in the at risk group but 40s and 50s age bracket
 

Dancfc

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You might have a point in that one example but I say to you that by saying everything is scaremongering you are doing more harm than good.’people need to realise the severity of what’s going on.
I never said everything was scaremongering i said some things are, there's also been reports in the last few days that give convenient sensational headline's implying the vaccine efficiency of the first dose isn't looking great only to read the full article and see it's not near as bad as the headline makes out. There's also been a bit of "X variant may evade vaccine" headline's when reading the full article the jist actually is (paraphrasing) "research is still be done but the likely worst case is it will marginally weaken vaccine efficiency and even if it completely evades it they can be modified within weeks at most", I'm sure someone will pop up soon with a way to justify it but in what way is that responsible reporting?

Never said the situation wasn't serious (and if you look at the thread "should football be suspended" i actually countered an argument by someone ,mildly not to denying level, playing it down) that was Pogue trying to twist my words to suit his narrative (yet again). However there's some corners of people who appear to be absolutely revelling in this and the fact that so many are leaping to the defense of those types show exactly why they will carry on doing it, because they have an army of sheep/cheerleaders who will act as their free marketing team and give them this platform.

To give you one example of someone who appears to be revelling in this (and has an army of apologist's ready to justify his every move) Piers Morgan. After months of exaggerated statements/tweets (for example never tweeting when there was a week by week decrease but whenever a week by week increase came about he was all over it) then buggered off to France in the summer, returned while gloating about dodging quarentine (he actually tweeted branding himself a quarentine dodger) did the same relentless campaign again and then flew to Antigua just before Christmas not only while living in a tier 3 area but also days after aggressively trying to shame people into staying at home over Christmas. Why is he not being called out on such blatant double standards? Why is he not being "held to account" as he likes to put it? In what way is that anything other than dispicable behaviour? There's no defense for his behaviour although it's certainly not for the want of trying.

But above all else, that type of biased/selective reporting is exactly why a lot of the country were so complacent with this in the first place, because we heard the exact same song with Ebola/Swine Flu/Bird Flu etc al, so when one turned up that actually was a serious problem for the Western world people thought they were crying wolf again and just carried on as you were.

People who deny/defend the type of people/stories I mentioned aren't that much better than the lunatics denying there's a virus. Infact long term their actions are probably more damaging, eventually by hook or by crook this pandemic will end, the likes of Piers Morgan and their fan clubs will still be here.
 
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Mb194dc

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Personally don't expect there to ever to be an end to this. I see little evidence that vaccination will provide a permanent solution. End game is COVID-19 becoming seasonal and permanent like influenza imo. In northern hemisphere we should at least see some easing through spring and summer.

Sure vaccines might take the edge off deaths every winter, as the yearly influenza vaccine does. I don't see covid zero being viable long term because there are enough countries in the world where that is impossible to allow SARS-CoV-2 to continue evolving, it will then spread back to rest of the world via freight and migration legal and illegal.

Sure you can keep it out of cut off islands for very long periods of time, it will just mean no one from the rest of the world will ever be able to visit again without strict quarantine and vice versa as people in those places won't have up to date immunity for it due to lack of natural exposure.
 

Dancfc

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Personally don't expect there to ever to be an end to this. I see little evidence that vaccination will provide a permanent solution. End game is COVID-19 becoming seasonal and permanent like influenza imo. In northern hemisphere we should at least see some easing through spring and summer.

Sure vaccines might take the edge off deaths every winter, as the yearly influenza vaccine does. I don't see covid zero being viable long term because there are enough countries in the world where that is impossible to allow SARS-CoV-2 to continue evolving, it will then spread back to rest of the world via freight and migration legal and illegal.

Sure you can keep it out of cut off islands for very long periods of time, it will just mean no one from the rest of the world will ever be able to visit again without strict quarantine and vice versa as people in those places won't have up to date immunity for it due to lack of natural exposure.
I don't think there's ever been any doubt it will still be here in some capacity even when the Pandemic is declared over.

The only virus that's ever been eradicated is smallpox, even the Bubonic Plague is still lurking around to a (very) small degree.
 

McGrathsipan

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Personally don't expect there to ever to be an end to this. I see little evidence that vaccination will provide a permanent solution. End game is COVID-19 becoming seasonal and permanent like influenza imo. In northern hemisphere we should at least see some easing through spring and summer.

Sure vaccines might take the edge off deaths every winter, as the yearly influenza vaccine does. I don't see covid zero being viable long term because there are enough countries in the world where that is impossible to allow SARS-CoV-2 to continue evolving, it will then spread back to rest of the world via freight and migration legal and illegal.

Sure you can keep it out of cut off islands for very long periods of time, it will just mean no one from the rest of the world will ever be able to visit again without strict quarantine and vice versa as people in those places won't have up to date immunity for it due to lack of natural exposure.
So thats it then. We may as well end it all now if this is how we have to live.
End of the world has begun.
 

Wibble

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Get vaccinated or kill Penna you selfish bastards
Sure you can keep it out of cut off islands for very long periods of time, it will just mean no one from the rest of the world will ever be able to visit again without strict quarantine and vice versa as people in those places won't have up to date immunity for it due to lack of natural exposure.
Being an Island helps but Britain is an island.
 

Coxy

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My wife’s granddad sadly died this morning. He caught COVID end of November and tested positive on 1st December. He died of complications from COVID so in theory due to the date of the test he won’t count in the figures of who died from COVID (not within the last 28 days).

begs the question how many others have died from complications after 28 days and then aren’t being added to the figures.
 

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In England, London and the North East had the highest infection rates in the week ending 16 January. We estimate that in London, 1 in 35 people had #COVID19
 

Bratt

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Parts of Norway (10 municipalities) are closing down as of today, with the strictest lockdown rules since the 12. of march.
Numbers of newly infected and dead are still pretty low in Norway though, but areas being locked down because of a spread of the UK mutation.
 

DomesticTadpole

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First lockdown here the local Morrisons had a queue system, security guards, someone cleaning all the baskets and trolleys before they were re-used, and were only allowing 1 person in per family unless it was someone who needed assistance.

It's a free for all now. Kids runnign up and down the isles and wiping their snot on all the vegetables (probabably). Queues for all the tills and packed isles....and they've come up with the genius idea of putting the baskets next to the self service checkout so they don't have to bother moving them so people can use them again...but it means you literally have to barge through the queue for the tills to get one.

If there's some scientific data showing all the supermarket precautions mean feck all then fair enough, but I really doubt that's the case since we never had a spell in the first lockdown where supermarkets were just letting people do whatever they want, so there's no way to make a comparison.

I also found it a lot easier to do a weekly shop in one go with the restrictions as once you got into the shop there was no hassle and everything was stocked, where as now it's back to being rage inducing and having to go 3 times just to get all the essentials.
The first lockdown I used to go later to Tesco and had to queue outside, it was orderly and like Morrisons they only let one in at a time. I now go around seven o'clock and there are not enough people there to form a queue. They have the traffic light so it will change colour once the limit of people is reached. I was back home before eight o'clock. I only do my shopping once like you. If I forget something it is just tough.
 

Sandikan

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Does it really bother you that much?

What a bizarre thing to ask.
I've worn a mask for two hours when they temporarily opened footy games again.
Was quite unpleasant and i wouldn't be in any hurry to get back into a ground if you still need one.

This guy wears it all day. Doing physical work.
That would be really horrible.
 

T00lsh3d

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What’s the advice on exercise (indoors obviously) when you’re positive? Don’t do it even if you feel ok?
 

DavelinaJolie

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Whilst I don't necessarily agree with the media "fear-mongering" I do think that news papers are very poor at reporting science effectively. By now they've all carried hundred of articles over the years with headlines stating "X causes cancer" based on a small study, without fully contextualising it. Hence why people joke "everything causes cancer". They effectively desensitise people to potential risks and cause mistrust of science by poorly reporting it.
 

Pogue Mahone

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Sorry for your loss.

The metrics need redefining as we'll never truly know the true figures.

Your grandad in law was a Covid death but won't be acknowledged as such and there's probably people who's death had nothing to do with Covid but will count as a Covid death because they had a positive test within 28 days, which means theoretically someone could be eaten by a crocodile and have Covid put down as cause of death.
That’s complete nonsense. A fiction spread on social media. Which has been corrected multiple times in this thread, including by the doctors that sign their name to the cause of death on death certs. Most recently @Hernandez - BFA.
 

Dancfc

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That’s complete nonsense. A fiction spread on social media. Which has been corrected multiple times in this thread, including by the doctors that sign their name to the cause of death on death certs. Most recently @Hernandez - BFA.
What's your opinion on Piers Morgan going on holiday in December and gloating about dodging quarentine in August? Only asking because you don't seem to be as quick to condemn him as you are others, I'm assuming it's because his views align closer to yours!
 

Brwned

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Sorry for your loss.

The metrics need redefining as we'll never truly know the true figures.

Your grandad in law was a Covid death but won't be acknowledged as such and there's probably people who's death had nothing to do with Covid but will count as a Covid death because they had a positive test within 28 days, which means theoretically someone could be eaten by a crocodile and have Covid put down as cause of death.
That isn’t how deaths are recorded. You write the cause of death on the death certificate. When someone is eaten by a crocodile they don’t check their health records and write down COVID. For all sorts of reasons. They have to have both died within 28 days of Covid and had that as their suspected cause of death, primary or secondary. Not just the first part. Why don’t you ask someone who actually does it for a living.

Went in an hour earlier on Thursday just to catch up with some death certificates that had unfortunately been racking up during the week. Yes, it is as morbid as it sounds.
When you write in a death certificate, you also write in a "receipt" that stays within the book (as you tear out the actual death certificate), which also includes the causes of death.
I had a quick look through the many, many, many receipts that were there and the vast majority of them were 1a - COVID 19.

Bollocks to those who still think that doctors put down shit like: 1a Myocardial Infaction/(Heart attack), 1b COVID; or 1a Subarachnoid Haemorrhage (Brain bleed) 1b. COVID.

That shit doesn't happen and I can't believe people still think it happens. The only times I've put COVID in the death certificate when it wasn't the primary reason for the cause of death is when a patient is in the process of getting over the oxygenation failure from COVID and then pick up a hospital acquired pneumonia which worsens their condition again. In that case it would be 1a - Bacterial Pneumonia, 1b COVID.

Anywho our hospital is changing to a 7 day working week from now on as it's too unsafe in "out of hours" like weekends and after 5pm when ward teams head home.
So for the foreseeable future, everyday will be 12 hour shifts with the occasional day off or two so we still keep within the rough range of hours of our contracts.
This is despite practically everyone exceeding the hours of our contract anyway. Think the earliest I've left work over the last few weeks is 17:45.

We'll hit a 1000 deaths per day sometime this week.
It’s wild that you’re calling people sheep for buying into scaremongering, while you’re here buying into a different kind of scaremongering. It is just scaremongering from a source that you prefer based on an ideology you’re more aligned to. It’s easier to see it in others than yourself.

It will mean more people get tested which will mean confirmed cases will rise again.

Best late Christmas present the MSM and scaremongers could wish for!
Here you’re just parroting a line that comes from people you share some beliefs with. You’ve also just regurgitated it without really critically analysing the idea. Like the crocodiles. The maths doesn’t add up, ultimately.

If you believe a lot more people will test positive because a lot more tests are freely available, then you believe there is a lot of undetected infection out there currently. That is the single biggest factor in community transmission. If you can better identify the level and source of transmission, you can better control it. If you believe that the reason they would come forward for tests is the financial incentive, which is tied exclusively to an isolation period, then you believe that more infected people would remove themselves from community transmission chains. That would improve the weakest part of our virus response.

If those two things happened then yes case numbers would go up in the short term. But case numbers would fall more quickly and more sustainedly over the medium term, and so the media’s window for fear mongering would be greatly shortened, and their dramatic peaks would be less common and less impactful. Not only would it lead to fewer total infections, which brings with it fewer hospitalisations and deaths, but it would reduce the proportion of people that get seriously ill. The earlier people get tested, the earlier they can go to hospital and get appropriate treatment, and the better their health outcomes are on average.

So it wouldn’t be a very good way to boost the numbers. That’s not at all in keeping with the epidemiology of this pandemic. I agree with you that the media like dramatic headlines, but the net impact of this policy would have been fewer opportunities of them, not more. Even the most sceptical epidemiologists you’re a fan of would confirm the basic facts of how transmission takes place, and the role test and isolate plays in mitigating that. They might choose to focus on other aspects of the pandemic but they wouldn’t argue against that basic truth.

Maybe you’re a sheep. Or maybe there’s a better way to describe people that focus on particular angles of a story that are more important to them, and recycle parts of stories from sources they trust. I’d just call that being a human.
 

Pogue Mahone

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What's your opinion on Piers Morgan going on holiday in December and gloating about dodging quarentine in August? Only asking because you don't seem to be as quick to condemn him as you are others, I'm assuming it's because his views align closer to yours!
What a weird post. I think Piers Morgan is an attention-seeking twat and have zero interest in what he says about anything. What’s that got to do with death certs?
 

Wumminator

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Why are people still going on about anything on death certificates being put down on COVID? We’ve locked society down, made the world safer (less people in work, less people on roads, less chance of catching illnesses) and excess deaths are still above the official Corona numbers. How do you explain that @Dancfc.

Also who the feck cares about Piers Morgan? But it is clear that one side of the “debate” has spread more untruths than others - hence TalkRadio being taken down for spreading mistruths; Toby Young deleting all past tweets and that Sikora idiot being completely discreditedz
 

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Why are people still going on about anything on death certificates being put down on COVID? We’ve locked society down, made the world safer (less people in work, less people on roads, less chance of catching illnesses) and excess deaths are still above the official Corona numbers. How do you explain that @Dancfc.

Also who the feck cares about Piers Morgan? But it is clear that one side of the “debate” has spread more untruths than others - hence TalkRadio being taken down for spreading mistruths; Toby Young deleting all past tweets and that Sikora idiot being completely discreditedz
Try explaining that to the Qpricks all over the world,
 

jojojo

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What’s the advice on exercise (indoors obviously) when you’re positive? Don’t do it even if you feel ok?
The advice I've read to college athletes (based on heart studies) even those who are feeling ok/normal is keep your heart rate low and don't get out of breath. So basically keep it gentle. The risk appears to be that you can be sicker than you feel and you'll pay for it later. So no racing, feeling the burn, or pushing through.

It particularly applies if you've had symptoms (even mild ones) but you are now feeling ok again. Build up slowly, and don't ignore your body's warnings - heart rate, breathlessness, dizziness etc.

If you've got a pulse oximeter use that to let you know if you should be exercising at all - if yours is below 95% at any stage then you need to rest irrespective of how you feel.

https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.m4721
Has some details, if you're interested in the background briefing the doctors/physios are getting.
 

JPRouve

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What a weird post. I think Piers Morgan is an attention-seeking twat and have zero interest in what he says about anything. What’s that got to do with death certs?
It was a magnificent tangent and he also yeld at you for some strange reason. :lol:

And why people think that doctors would put Covid as the cause of death if they don't believe that it is the case? What is the rational behind that theory beyond the Qanon conspiracies?
 

T00lsh3d

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The advice I've read to college athletes (based on heart studies) even those who are feeling ok/normal is keep your heart rate low and don't get out of breath. So basically keep it gentle. The risk appears to be that you can be sicker than you feel and you'll pay for it later. So no racing, feeling the burn, or pushing through.

It particularly applies if you've had symptoms (even mild ones) but you are now feeling ok again. Build up slowly, and don't ignore your body's warnings - heart rate, breathlessness, dizziness etc.

If you've got a pulse oximeter use that to let you know if you should be exercising at all - if yours is below 95% at any stage then you need to rest irrespective of how you feel.

https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.m4721
Has some details, if you're interested in the background briefing the doctors/physios are getting.
Many thanks. I think I’ll sack it off as I’m not exactly in athletic condition at the moment, I was working to get back there but will take a few weeks off. We have an oximeter actually and so far the lowest reading is 97 so all well so far
 

Anustart89

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It was a magnificent tangent and he also yeld at you for some strange reason. :lol:

And why people think that doctors would put Covid as the cause of death if they don't believe that it is the case? What is the rational behind that theory beyond the Qanon conspiracies?
Oh, didn't you know? We get a bonus for every Covid death recorded in our hospital! I'm rolling in it mate, just bought myself a Ferrari and all.
 

Anustart89

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Just a general tip for people who catch Covid if they want to make one preparation in case of critical illness. Find a comfortable position while in a prone position and try to make yourself comfortable lying on your belly for longer periods.

We've had numerous patients who we had to intubate and put on ventilators because they couldn't or wouldn't prone while awake due to discomfort, joint pain or neck pain.
 

JPRouve

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Oh, didn't you know? We get a bonus for every Covid death recorded in our hospital! I'm rolling in it mate, just bought myself a Ferrari and all.
Someone, somewhere, is going to use that in an argument. :nono: