SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

[Brwned]

If you think I’m being purposefully ambiguous. You are wrong - and perhaps, or should I say you are making (see I’m being forthright...) judgements that aren’t correct. It’s obvious mistakes have been made, that’s almost a universal truth. What they were, how grave they were, and what could have been done differently are judgements that will take time to process and to unravel.

I have no agenda, and if I did, I wouldn’t be promulgating it on here - I don’t have a want or desire to influence any opinion.

Yes that seems like another great illustration of equivocation. Let’s take it to one concrete example so you can talk about the mistakes that were made, why they were made, and what impact that they had. Or deflect some more.

Did the government initially follow a herd immunity strategy, then repeatedly lie about following that strategy after it became obvious it wouldn’t work out as they planned?

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Yes that seems like another great illustration of equivocation. Let’s take it to one concrete example so you can talk about the mistakes that were made, why they were made, and what impact that they had. Or deflect some more.

Did the government initially follow a herd immunity strategy, then repeatedly lie about following that strategy after it became obvious it wouldn’t work out as they planned?

mate. Pick an argument elsewhere.

 

[Mihai]

Puts the claims that UK gov actually handled things okay (and the claims that herd immunity was never actually their plan) into sharp context. Incompetent liars.

I don't think anyone with more than 2 brain cells claimed that.

 

[Bosws87]

I don't know how much is true or untrue but im 99% sure the stuff about hancock is all true you can tell straight away that guy is a joke.

 

[11101]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

He really is a cretin isn't he. Turning against the government like a scorned lover, forgetting that he was the PMs right hand man at the time. He was the one supposed to be advising him.

None of it will matter, nobody will care about all the awful decisions taken up to the vaccination campaign, where through luck more than judgement they've bailed themselves out.

 

[LARulz]

UK hospital numbers slowly increasing again but remain under 1000

 

[711]

Went to London for the first time in a year today. More 'normal' than Lancashire, busier streets and underground, but what really surprised me was the mask-wearing. I've been reading all year about people not wearing them, or wearing them badly, and wondered where this was supposed to be, because at home everyone is very good about it. Well now I know, London. It's full of people that don't think rules apply to them for some reason. Tossers.

 

[Tony Babangida]

Back in lockdown in Melbourne. Completely predictable, the Federal government is completely to blame with their shocking vaccine rollout and inability to take any sort of responsibility for quarantine. Utd losing and now this, what a shite day.

 

[Wibble]

Back in lockdown in Melbourne. Completely predictable, the Federal government is completely to blame with their shocking vaccine rollout and inability to take any sort of responsibility for quarantine. Utd losing and now this, what a shite day.

Original plan for end of May was 16 million shots. To date only 3.8 million given. Bloody useless.

How these utter incompetents are still in a job is beyond me. Since the last election what haven't they fecked up?

The bush fires should have been enough to make them unelectable but they still scraped in, largely thanks to News Corp propaganda.

Economic support during covid has been expensive and partly effective, but so piecemeal and aimless. The sight of large companies giving the federal covid funds they didn't need to executives as bonuses and shareholders as dividends, while letting sectors the Feds hate, like Universities and the arts, go to the wall is immoral.

They have abdicated all responsibility for quarantine to the states despite hotel quarantine never being a sustainable long term solution. We bought far too few different vaccines and only finally decided to buy some Moderna 12 months too late, which won't be delivered until late 2021 and early 2022. We have fecked up the distribution of what we do have with a lack of planning and assuming if we just throw money at Lin Fox because they have refrigerated truck that all would be well. Surprise, surprise that this was a disaster. For example, of the 26,000 people in disability care home only 999 have had their first shot.

Hundreds of thousands of Aussies trapped overseas with no support from the Government (not just the 40k who have registered for rapid repatriation).

They then announce a new gas powered power station at the cost of 600 million dollars on the day the World Energy Body warns against any new development, just to buy a marginal constituency in a NSW by-election where mining is a big employer. Followed by widespread power outages in Qld and northern NSW that would have been avoided if we had invested in renewables and battery storage. #scottyfrommarketing then just outright lies that our emissions are declining. Proof? #scottyfrommarketing said so. And the government has stopped giving out information ion anything they don't want us to know about and walk out of press conferences if questioned.

What else? Dutton banning the military from promoting diversity in the military. The tsunami of sexual assault, rape, gender related bullying and associated issues that seem to infect the Feds and their constituent parties? Spending billions to hold a handful of brown people in third world gulags indefinably, despite most of them being genuine refugees?

The list goes on and it sickens me. Can you tell that I'm pissed off? And I like Albo, a decent bloke but why are Labor letting the government have a free ride on so many things?

The only good things is that this might give some of those who are at the just lazy section of the vaccine hesitancy demographic will get motivated to get the jab. Particularly those over 50 who can get the AZ vaccine of which we have more than enough. So far I have seen 1 TV adverts promoting vaccination and nothing from the feds such as press conferences or media appearance urging people to get vaccinated. This makes me suspect that supply is even worse than we fear (and how would be know as it has became a state secret?). Luckily Hamilton The Musical is being advertised heavily so the TV and Ad industries haven't been totally forgotten.

 

[Cooksen]

Original plan for end of May was 16 million shots. To date only 3.8 million given. Bloody useless.

How these utter incompetents are still in a job is beyond me. Since the last election what haven't they fecked up?

The bush fires should have been enough to make the unelectable but they still scraped in, largely thanks to News Corp propaganda.

Economic support during covid has been expensive and partly effective, but so piecemeal and aimless. The sight of large companies giving the federal covid funds they didn't need to executives as bonuses and shareholders as dividends, while letting sectors the Feds hate, like Universities and the arts, go to the wall, is immoral.

They have abdicated all responsibility for quarantine to the states despite hotel quarantine never being a sustainable long term solution. We bought far too few different vaccines and only finally decided to buy some Moderna 12 months too late, which won't be delivered until late 2021 and early 2022. We have fecked up the distribution of what we do have with a lack of planning and assuming if we just throw money at Lin Fox because they have refrigerated truck that all would be well. Surprise, surprise that this was a disaster. For example, of the 26,000 people in disability care home only 999 have had their first shot.

Hundreds of thousands of Aussies trapped overseas with no support from the Government (not just the 40k who have registered for rapid repatriation).

They then announce a new gas powered power station at the cost of 600 million dollars on the day the World Energy Body warns against any new development, just to buy a marginal constituency in a NSW by-election where mining is a big employer. Followed by widespread power outages in Qld and northern NSW that would have been avoided if we had invested in renewables and battery storage. #scottyfrommarketing then just outright lies that our emissions are declining. Proof? #scottyfrommarketing said so. And the government has stopped giving out information ion anything they don't want us to know about and walk out of press conferences if questioned.

What else? Dutton banning the military from promoting diversity in the military. The tsunami of sexual assault, rape, gender related bullying and associated issues that seem to infect the Feds and their constituent parties? Spending billions to hold a handful of brown people in third world gulags indefinably, despite most of them being genuine refugees?

The list goes on and it sickens me. Can you tell that I'm pissed off? And I like Albo, a decent bloke but why are Labor letting the government have a free ride on so many things?

The only good things is that this might give some of those who are at the just lazy section of the vaccine hesitancy demographic will get motivated to get the jab. Particularly those over 50 who can get the AZ vaccine of which we have more than enough. So far I have seen 1 TV adverts promoting vaccination and nothing from the feds. Luckily Hamilton The Musical is being advertised heavily so the TV and Ad industries haven't been totally forgotten.

Albo is stepping up the attacks but the media is just not reporting him, out of sight and out of mind.

Am pissed off at scotty though, bloke has never taken any responblity for anything during Covid.

 

[Tony Babangida]

That is so true, I’ve seen 1000x more adverts for Hamilton than for getting vaccinated.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

Just caught up with the Cummings testimony and this quite honestly he reminds me of Saul Goodman.

 

[11101]

Yeah exactly. I've no reason to disbelieve him and if you've ever been involved in politics at work you know you can't speak out at the time, only observe all the crap you're seeing.

In his case, he was supposed to be the one doing it all. He was the PMs Chief Advisor and he's trying to make out like he was sitting on the sidelines observing. It's as much his fault as anybody's.

 

[Cooksen]

At least managed to get a slab of piss and some TP last night before all the panic buying in Melbourne.

 

[Massive Spanner]

How is the vaccine rollout so bad in Oz? Shortages of supply? Don't you have an amazing healthcare system?

 

[jojojo]

Encouraging small scale study on ongoing protection following covid infections and covid vaccines. Antibody levels reduce dramatically in the first 3-6 months following vaccination or infection, but B cells continue to remember the infection, ready to fight it again.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/26/...y-vaccines.html#click=https://t.co/veputtvOdz

Early days of course, timewise and mutation wise, and this is a difficult study to run (needs trialists to give bone marrow) but it's the kind of news we were hoping to hear.

 

[Cooksen]

How is the vaccine rollout so bad in Oz? Shortages of supply? Don't you have an amazing healthcare system?

The Australian govenment placed all its eggs in one basket (The AZ shot, which incidentally was due to be manufactured here by a company owned in part by a Liberal Party MP), then when all the issues with AZ were announced which along with Scotty saying "just wait til we get Pizfer" and "Its not a race to get vaccinated" along with Murdoch press manipulating boomers meant a lot of vaccines have been wasted. But at the start there was a short supply, Australia could have had a wide varity but just went all in on 1

Add on top the current federal govenment palmed off their constitutional responblity to the states for quarantine as well.


My local MP who is going hammer and tong at Scotty from Marketing


The Labor party leader also going after the govenment.

Scotty makes Bojo look competent.

 

[africanspur]

How is the vaccine rollout so bad in Oz? Shortages of supply? Don't you have an amazing healthcare system?

Seems to be a mixture of betting too heavily on a couple of horses (AZ and UQ), not buying enough doses and perhaps a bit of lack of urgency with how normal life is over there.

 

[Cooksen]

Seems to be a mixture of betting too heavily on a couple of horses (AZ and UQ), not buying enough doses and perhaps a bit of lack of urgency with how normal life is over there.

There has been a spike in getting them this week though, baby boomers here have suddenly found out that this virus is not going to pander for their needs.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Encouraging small scale study on ongoing protection following covid infections and covid vaccines. Antibody levels reduce dramatically in the first 3-6 months following vaccination or infection, but B cells continue to remember the infection, ready to fight it again.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/26/...y-vaccines.html#click=https://t.co/veputtvOdz

Early days of course, timewise and mutation wise, and this is a difficult study to run (needs trialists to give bone marrow) but it's the kind of news we were hoping to hear.

That’s a good read. Nice explanation to counter the hysteria around antibody levels dropping after infection.

Antibody levels in these individuals dropped rapidly four months after infection and continued to decline slowly for months afterward — results that are in line with those from other studies.

Some scientists have interpreted this decrease as a sign of waning immunity, but it is exactly what’s expected, other experts said. If blood contained high quantities of antibodies to every pathogen the body had ever encountered, it would quickly transform into a thick sludge.

 

[jojojo]

And another good news piece, because we need them. As impressed as I've been by the development speed and the performance of the vaccines, I've been disappointed by the testing technology.

By now I was kind of hoping we'd have a covid breathalyser test or some kind of saliva on litmus paper style test. At last a suggestion that someone may have, at least, done the proof of concept:

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

The details of the Nature article are way beyond me. But as I'm a past (decades past ) guinea pig on early trials of blood finger prick sensor cholesterol, clotting and glucose gadgets - I'm hoping that they're really onto something there. And that someone with a truckload of cash will take a serious look at it.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Sobering/scary thought. If covid had come at us with Indian variant transmissibility straight off the bat (pun intended) then not even a Wuhan style lockdown could have stopped the first wave.

 

[Wibble]

How is the vaccine rollout so bad in Oz? Shortages of supply? Don't you have an amazing healthcare system?

We didn't order as many vaccines as other countries and when AZ became suboptimal for those under 50 and the UQ vaccine failed #scottyfrommarketing had no idea whst to do and we were left with huge under-supply. Coupled with Federal incompetence with organising the distribution network and here we are.

 

[stw2022]

The cognitive disconnect between looking at how well things have gone in UK thanks largely to rollout of the AZ vaccine yet having an aversion to AZ is very first world problem

 

[Lj82]

And another good news piece, because we need them. As impressed as I've been by the development speed and the performance of the vaccines, I've been disappointed by the testing technology.

By now I was kind of hoping we'd have a covid breathalyser test or some kind of saliva on litmus paper style test. At last a suggestion that someone may have, at least, done the proof of concept:

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

The details of the Nature article are way beyond me. But as I'm a past (decades past ) guinea pig on early trials of blood finger prick sensor cholesterol, clotting and glucose gadgets - I'm hoping that they're really onto something there. And that someone with a truckload of cash will take a serious look at it.

I don't know the details of the science behind it, but the Singapore Government recently authorizes the use of breathalyzer for covid testing

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/new...breathonix-hsa-trial-land-checkpoint-14874824

 

[jojojo]

I don't know the details of the science behind it, but the Singapore Government recently authorizes the use of breathalyzer for covid testing

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/new...breathonix-hsa-trial-land-checkpoint-14874824

That's great news.
Assuming it works I guess.

 

[Cooksen]

The cognitive disconnect between looking at how well things have gone in UK thanks largely to rollout of the AZ vaccine yet having an aversion to AZ is very first world problem

Has the murdoch press gone against AZ in the UK?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

The cognitive disconnect between looking at how well things have gone in UK thanks largely to rollout of the AZ vaccine yet having an aversion to AZ is very first world problem

Things have gone well in the UK. They seem to have gone a bit better in Israel though, where they exclusively used an mRNA vaccine. They avoided the uptick in cases/hospitalisations you seem to be getting now. And that’s without even getting into the respective safety profiles.

You’re bang on that this is the literal definite of a first world problem but for countries that do have the luxury of choice it might make sense to be picky about their vaccines.

 

[hmchan]

And another good news piece, because we need them. As impressed as I've been by the development speed and the performance of the vaccines, I've been disappointed by the testing technology.

By now I was kind of hoping we'd have a covid breathalyser test or some kind of saliva on litmus paper style test. At last a suggestion that someone may have, at least, done the proof of concept:

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

The details of the Nature article are way beyond me. But as I'm a past (decades past ) guinea pig on early trials of blood finger prick sensor cholesterol, clotting and glucose gadgets - I'm hoping that they're really onto something there. And that someone with a truckload of cash will take a serious look at it.

There is no way the speed of the testing technology catches up with that of vaccine development in a pandemic. All biomedical companies focus on designing primers and kits based on existing principles and machines. This is the fastest way to pass all evaluation criteria, get approved by the FDA, and offer gold-standard tests to the public.

 

[hmchan]

I don't know the details of the science behind it, but the Singapore Government recently authorizes the use of breathalyzer for covid testing

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/new...breathonix-hsa-trial-land-checkpoint-14874824

If you read more carefully it has nothing to do with COVID. It just detects biochemical changes in your body which could indicate anything.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Things have gone well in the UK. They seem to have gone a bit better in Israel though, where they exclusively used an mRNA vaccine. They avoided the uptick in cases/hospitalisations you seem to be getting now. And that’s without even getting into the respective safety profiles.

You’re bang on that this is the literal definite of a first world problem but for countries that do have the luxury of choice it might make sense to be picky about their vaccines.

Yeah and AZ will probably not even be used here in Ireland anymore soon given the massive Pfizer supplies we have coming in as well as the ramp up of Moderna and J&J. Why bother with a vaccine that people are skeptical of and has a 12 week gap for the 2nd dose.

Saying that, I'd still happily snap one up right now, but as a 33 year old, I hope that when I get mine in early July (maybe?) it's not one of the mandatory options!

 

[Wolverine]

Quite a lot of cases in Leicester I'm finding of covid possibly new variant I don't know if PHE is doing genomics on confirmed cases
But I've seen false negatives on lateral flow tests done which turned out to be positive on a PCR (usually have to plead with patients to get them done)

A lot of people (usually 30-40s) using their kids' lateral flow test kits on themselves when only meant to be used for asymptomatic cases but clearly not adhering to social isolation protocols while pending PCR test and mixing freely. Reckon thats a big reason for the increased spread.

Massive information campaign needed for the flow tests I reckon
Luckily not seen many severe cases so far and the elderly/vulnerable who've had jabs seem to be ok.

 

[groovyalbert]

Things have gone well in the UK. They seem to have gone a bit better in Israel though, where they exclusively used an mRNA vaccine. They avoided the uptick in cases/hospitalisations you seem to be getting now. And that’s without even getting into the respective safety profiles.

You’re bang on that this is the literal definite of a first world problem but for countries that do have the luxury of choice it might make sense to be picky about their vaccines.

There are factors beyond the type of vaccine used to explain why things have gone better in Israel.

Eg - smaller population, crisis-aware/compliancy culture, shorter period between administering of 1st and 2nd shots, less migration/open borders (only 1 major airport to monitor), more streamline centralised healthcare system.

Not to say mRNA isn't better (it clearly is), but the UK would have encountered the same distribution issues (far less than a lot of Western countries) regardless of the vaccine used. A lot of these were procedural, supply-chain, policy/public related.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Yeah and AZ will probably not even be used here in Ireland anymore soon given the massive Pfizer supplies we have coming in as well as the ramp up of Moderna and J&J. Why bother with a vaccine that people are skeptical of and has a 12 week gap for the 2nd dose.

Saying that, I'd still happily snap one up right now, but as a 33 year old, I hope that when I get mine in early July (maybe?) it's not one of the mandatory options!

I’m getting mine on Saturday (fecking finally!) They seem to be rattling through 50s/40s at a crazy pace, and it should get quicker from here, so I’d say there’s close to a 100% chance of you getting your first dose in June.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

There are factors beyond the type of vaccine used to explain why things have gone better in Israel.

Eg - smaller population, crisis-aware/compliancy culture, shorter period between administering of 1st and 2nd shots, less migration/open borders (only 1 major airport to monitor), more streamline centralised healthcare system.

Not to say mRNA isn't better (it clearly is), but the UK would have encountered the same distribution issues (far less than a lot of Western countries) regardless of the vaccine used. A lot of these were procedural, supply-chain, policy/public related.

All good/fair points.

 

[Massive Spanner]

I’m getting mine on Saturday (fecking finally!) They seem to be rattling through 50s/40s at a crazy pace, and it should get quicker from here, so I’d say there’s close to a 100% chance of you getting your first dose in June.

Yay, congrats. Yeah my manager registered on the portal last week and is getting his tomorrow so it's looking good. Who knew the HSE could actually be competent on something, eh?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Yay, congrats. Yeah my manager registered on the portal last week and is getting his tomorrow so it's looking good. Who knew the HSE could actually be competent on something, eh?

Can’t stress how lucky we are that this system somehow avoided the ransomware attack. That would have been an unbelievable kick in the bollox.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Can’t stress how lucky we are that this system somehow avoided the ransomware attack. That would have been an unbelievable kick in the bollox.

it's new isn't it? Pretty sure that's why. It's totally independent to the HSE monolith.

 

[V.O.]

The 'lab leak' hypothesis seems to be getting a lot more play recently. Top story on the BBC is currently Biden calling for US intelligence agencies to redouble their efforts in investigating the origins of the virus, which follows articles similarly looking at the idea through fresh eyes from the NY Times and Wall Street Journal.

It's so fecking shit that much like the response to the outbreak, the theory when it was first considered was immediately politicised because the most prominent proponent of it was that fat orange prick who'd rather climb a tree and tell a lie than stay on the ground and tell the truth.

It's always seemed like a pretty big fecking coincidence that the world's leading lab for the study of bat coronaviruses is in Wuhan. There's evidence that three researchers from the lab were hospitalised in November 2019 (as per the WSJ article above - though we don't know the specifics of their symptoms etc). Either way, it's tough to see how a safety feck up leading to researches becoming infected with a sample they're studying is categorically implausible.

 

[Wolverine]

What is the actual evidence behind lab leak hypothesis beyond "there was a sciencey lab in Wuhan" and a few people working in it got sick which the chinese deny?

I know science writer Nicholas Wade's article about it but why not get say I don't know somebody in synethetic virology to offer up a view?

And anything to contradict the WHO's very extensive 120 page report regarding the extreme unlikelihood of this being man-made?
https://www.who.int/publications/i/...bal-study-of-origins-of-sars-cov-2-china-part

a laboratory origin of the pandemic was considered to be extremely unlikely

Not ruling it out for sure because I'm not an expert in the area but just because the American politicians are saying they are considering it doesn't mean we should necessarily take it more seriously unless there is solid science behind it

Incidentally there is are counter arguments to Nicholas Wade's points here
https://www.forbes.com/sites/starts...-that-covid-19-wasnt-leaked-from-a-wuhan-lab/