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SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)
- Thread starter Don't Kill Bill
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Sorry, I don't know. Please be more specific.
It's not an on/off switch. No vaccine is. Despite the complication of Omicron, which is more immune evasive than Delta, if everyone is vaccinated then the R rate falls below 1 and the infection rate dies down in the community. Only bad luck gets you infected at those levels, and in those circumstances, and it's bad luck when you pass it on.
If you aren't vaccinated and catch it, and you were in a position to be vaccinated, it's not bad luck - it's your choice. If you aren't vaccinated and catch it, and pass it on, then it's not about luck - it's about your decision affecting someone else.
This doesn't make any sense. Any individual's freedom necessarily impinges on the freedom of every other individual. In a world of 8.5 billion people or whatever the number is these days, freedom to pursue one's interest will inevitably contradict someone else's interest.
You are absolutely right.
It does make absolute sense and is actually one of the ground rules of every society. And it's not about mere interest. It's about endangering others with what some might call freedom. We wear masks during this time because it helps protect the most vulnerable in the society. Same goes with he vaccination. Now if some entitled prats think this is unbearable which results in full ICUs then the vaccination needs to be mandatory.
That's a pretty hard lockdown! Interesting to see its not having the same effect as it had here. What are the reasons you think? Are people being careless and not obliging?
You didn't understand what he wrote.
Life is made of battles and conflict of interests that can't be solved in the light of a banal citation.
feck knows what you watch or listen to, but I have NEVER heard any reputable source ever claiming vaccines would completely stop transmission.
Life is made of battles. Now that is a banal citation.
Not being able to do whatever pleases you when it endangeres others is not.
No one gives a shit, its the Netherlands ffs. If you want a good time go to Belgium or Germany. Stupid eu rules and freedom of movement, fecking madness. feck eu rules and close borders, its so feckin simple
My mates in Berlin said the same. They banned fireworks for NYE so people just drove across the border to buy them.
A banal citation is widespread.
In an authentic democracy, the rights of a minority (unvaccinated people in Western countries) must be protected no matter how alienated the minority is from the majority society. Vaccinated people can also endanger the safety/rights of unvaccinated people, so nothing is black or white (Nelson Mandela for your reference).
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Here we go again?
Nee variant found in south of France, believed to originate from Cameroon.
Cluster of 12 cases identified so far but that region is seeing a high rate of admissions to ICU despite relative vaccination take up which is causing some concern. Still early days in identifying the threat though.
It's not a new variant. It popped up a month ago and hasn't really moved from the initial clusters. It didn't complete with Delta, it isn't competing with Omicron. Unless that changes, it's just one of many mutations that have been seen and that we'll keep seeing.
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Ahh thanks that’s good to know. It seems to have picked up a bit of steam on Twitter today.
Dr Rochelle Walensky Director of CDC “vaccinated people do not carry the virus, do not get sick” Vs “what they can’t do anymore is prevent transmissions”
Obviously once they learnt more about the virus/vaccine or new variants came things changed and they amended their opinion.
Why would anyone expect vaccines to be sterilising when virtually no vaccines are sterilising?
They don't need to be sterilising to do a great job so why covidiots are trying to turn this into something meaningful is bewildering? Then and antivaxxers and covidiots are bewildering.
Of course Nelson was talking about the unvaxxinated
Is it possible to have a viral load so low that it's undetectable by the current test methods, yet still enough to cause symptoms?
Doubt it. Especially with classic symptoms. I believe that a typical PCR test can detect a single molecule of RNA in a microlitre of solution whereas the lateral flow antigen tests need a sample to contain probably tens of thousands of viral particles per microlitre to produce a positive result
There was something I read in the Lancet about poor nasopharyngeal sampling technique in young kids - in addition to young kids having very low viral loads + timing of testing possibly leading to a few more false negatives than would be expected but that's about it.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-59858887
Will see more and more hospital reporting critical incidents like this with NHS staff shortages.
Am so lucky to have a supportive spouse as we've been really living like a hermit to prevent us getting omicron and not leaving colleagues in the shit.
Will see more and more hospital reporting critical incidents like this with NHS staff shortages.
Am so lucky to have a supportive spouse as we've been really living like a hermit to prevent us getting omicron and not leaving colleagues in the shit.
Fukk off you bore
PCR labs are set to be quite sensitive, so it's unlikely to miss a symptomatic infection due to viral load. Timing can be odd though, some people can test positive (and be infectious) a couple of days before symptoms show up - and be negative when they test a day or so after the symptoms appear.
Field trials of PCR tests done at home or outside a lab/hospital environment suggest problems with swabs aren't that uncommon either - with more than 5% of infected people getting a false negative result. Maybe down to something the person ate/drank or whatever, or the way the swab was handled or some contaminant that spoiled the swab or the test.
I should have realised you were in the USA. No wonder the messages you got are all fecked up.
Heres the bit that doesnt add up with respect to understanding the vaccine was never going to stop people 100% from getting covid. Remember all the reporting about each vaccines efficacy rates before they were released? Surely that simple bit of info lets you know the vaccines werent the perfect stopper?
Well put Stan.
i don’t know… ask the Fucci, Biden, Whitty, Dr Walensky etc. I assumed they initially said it would stop transmission because that’s what they thought at the time and then things changed and they amended their opinions which is normal… if you think that makes them anti vaxxers and covidiots that’s weird and makes no sense but your choice. Labelling and name calling is for extremist, so I’ll stay out of that.
Can't speak for the rest but I've watched every single press briefing since the start of the pandemic including royal college video updates from Chris Whitty and on the subject of transmission initially it was, wait for data, then some data suggests partial reduction in transmission during delta, but then omicron changed that.
Crux of messaging was though protection from severe disease and implication for ITU/preventing overwhelming of health systems.
Bizarre of you to say people are rewriting history when I can see you literally lying. Weird hill to die on. There's a lot of grey areas surrounding science but some certainties. Many have been quite admirable in that communication, especially Chris Whitty. Especially in the face of the pernicious, disingenuous murderous death **** that is the covid anti-vaxx movement
You could have just ended the post with this.
Which is why there is absolutely no limitation whatsoever on the right to freedom of religion.
Oh wait…
They didn't though all bar Walensky always stressed they were waiting on the data and never claimed such totality. It wasn't at all common belief that vaccines stopped all transmission.
I remember that CDC statement coming out from Walensky as I'm sure it was discussed in here. It caused a stir and they clarified the day or so after they meant broadly i.e. the 90% study.
I can't imagine that anyone though the vaccines would be sterilising. Why would they? From the earliest results they weren't and nobody was at all surprised, but rather delighted the results were so good. I'd bet most of the statements claiming to say otherwise are lies or taken out of context to pretend someone was making a point they weren't, as any professional scientist in the area would know that vaccines are rarely sterilising. Not to know so would be like Lewis Hamilton being surprised that cars often have 4 wheels, 1at each corner.
Trying to diminish the importance of vaccines because they aren't sterilising is idiotic and a play from the antivaxx/covidiot playbook. Anyone who buys in to this bullshit should be ashamed of themselves.
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What? I demand my pagan religious rights to sacrifice babies? It's PC gone mad I tell you.
Love Barry Ritholtz. Been following him since Bailout Nation came out. Always informative and wields hard data against bad narratives.
We were discussing it in this thread from the start. You're right its become a really strange criticism of the vaccines from some.
A huge proportion of right wing politicians, if not the majority, are a moral vacuum and getting worse. It doesn't make the middle or left flawless but at least they aren't despicable by default. I'm not going to pretend otherwise.
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Yes. Not being able to manage relatively minor personal inconvenience for the greater good is many things, including idiotic.
Adult vaccination is over 90% overall and O12s are catching up fast and O5s soon to follow. Where we have an issue with Omicron is that our initial vaccine strollout has delayed getting the third shot that helps so much against Omicron. I'm very glad I've had mine.
So far hospitalisations are nowhere near as bad as they could be but it looks like it could be a rough next 3 months. I'm turning into a hermit for the next few months
Can’t speak for the context of that quote. I suspect there must be more to it.
Firstly here in the UK, my point stands. I haven’t heard Whitty or anyone for that matter ever claim vaccines stop transmission.
But in any case I seriously question your critical thinking ability. Unless you’ve also got some magical source which claimed vaccines were 100% effective, the fact they were always reported as, say, 90%, should be enough to tell you they were never going to fully stop transmission?
I can’t figure out if you’re just a misinformed person or you’re purposely being obtuse, but I’m starting to think the latter if I’m honest because when confronted with facts and sound logic you’re still trying to stand by your bullshit assertion.
You should put that guy on mute. He’s a hysterical fear-mongerer thriving on the attention he gets from doomy tweets. An absolute weapon.