Greece and Cyprus have also done well.
Cyprus for example implemented testing and quarantine for new arrivals around a month ago.. something so sensible yet the UK is still struggling to say when this will start for us.
SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)
- Thread starter Don't Kill Bill
- Start date
Cyprus for example implemented testing and quarantine for new arrivals around a month ago.. something so sensible yet the UK is still struggling to say when this will start for us.
It's a disgrace.
Of course they knew this was going to happen. You'd have to be incredibly stupid to not think that the buses would be packed again. There's simply no way that the public can be blamed for this. They knew that making this decision would mean the buses would be in use because people just do not have any other choice. I know a few people in London who are in their mid 20s and don't have a licence because when public transport is so readily available there is no need for them to drive or justify that type of expense. With some who do drive they don't have cars for the same reasons. It also assumes that everyone lives in areas close to their work which is ridiculous too. The majority of people who live in London don't really 'choose' where they live but are forced into picking where they live by necessity of cost. People can't afford to live in places they work and to then say to a workforce that could have been relying on public transport for a number of years to suddenly shift to walking/cycling is just not going to work with a click of fingers. For some it will be simply too far and for others they won't be able to cycle for health/other reasons.
I read that car sharing was allowed as long as windows are open and passengers face away from each other but you're still in an enclosed space with 2-4 other people who are all touching that enclosed space. Who knows how many people they'll come into contact with.
They should have absolutely made masks or face covering compulsory on public transport but that leads into another issue of providing masks for people as there may be some who find it difficult to obtain a mask that is going to be beneficial. In that case should people just be covering their face with a scarf or bandana etc anyway until they can be given a proper mask? I would say so.
It's clear though that the government doesn't really give a feck about people's health as long as enough people live to sustain their 'economy'.
Yeah, pretty much every pandemic has had a second wave and there's no reason to think that Covid-19 will be different given the herd immunity level is at less than 5% in most Western European countries. However, imposing a second lockdown is just not a realistic scenario, so our governments and experts will have to come up with different solutions, and hopefully we'll be better prepared to keep the wave in check / at an acceptable level.
Terrible voting record but Peter Bone is always critical of the government. He was in particular of Theresa May when she held a re-election.
I've actually spoken to him a few times as he rented a flat in my dad's apartment block. We once removed a cat which used to sneak inside
It's infuriating. How hard is it for the transport minister to have set out guidelines that every other seat is removed/closed off.
In this case they'll blame Khan because it's what they always do but it's an issue beyond London and companies will not do it off their own back without basic guidance provided.
The British publics refusal to wear masks because they feel silly is going to kill a lot of people.
Lockdown measures were announced on 23rd March, a day when there were supposedly 967 new cases in the UK. Now we are easing lockdown while they are reporting 3-4,000 new cases per day. Surely anyone can see this is not going to work out well.
They cant really close off those seat because that would be half the people being late for work or other things. So you cant really blame them if it their only means for transportation. But yeah I think for a least until theres a vaccine, everyone should wear a mask. It would give a peace of mind to everyone.
Is it not just ‘R’, with ‘R0’ speaking to the disease itself?
R shifts
R0 doesn’t (unless the virus mutates)
This is true but those 967 new cases were in an era of crammed pubs, offices, tube trains, buses, schools, sporting stadia etc Which was a completely different world to the one we live in now.
I know that footage of busy public transport is scary but life is so radically different now, even as the lockdown eases, we should be able to avoid the exponential spread of the first wave. Barring some absolutely catastrophic decisions by the government/local councils.
The second wave of the Spanish flu came after thousands and thousands of troops were squeezed into transports together and the general public thronged the streets together, on armistice day parades. I’d like to think we won’t do anything quite that suicidal. Even if we get a load of weapons throwing barbeques and house parties whenever the sun comes out.
R0 shifts all the time. And varies from place to place. I don’t think “R” is even a thing. Which is one of the many aspects that bugs me about BoJo’s speech.
Kind of.
R0 is the basic reproduction number of reinfections at Day 0, i.e assuming nobody is immune or vaccinated, but it is affected by things like population density. It can be different in different places.
Re is the effective reproduction number taking everything into account, but most people (even governments) just call this R0.
This conversation reinforces the point that unless we are epidemiological experts, we don't know enough to be interpreting these numbers in any way.
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I’ll see if I can dig out the article I read when I first got irked by ‘R’ being quoted.
Fortunately I can work from home with no issues. You can tell from my username I live in Purley. To get to work I walk to the station, get the overland train to Victoria or London Bridge and then its a bus or a tube to Covent Garden/Leicester Sq.
If my employer told me I had to be in the office there is no other option other than public transport. I do have a car, but parking is scarce and would cost £40-£50 per day. I do have a pushbike, but its a 12 mile round trip on busy (or maybe not so busy now?) roads. Only takes a lorry to do an unexpected left turn and you are a streak of jam on the road. Not going to be an option for me.
I'd imagine millions of other people are in the same boat, so what do they think would happen?
I can only imagine its a calculated action, surely nobody could be that stupid that they thought everyone would magically find new ways to get into work whilst still social distancing?
If my employer told me I had to be in the office there is no other option other than public transport. I do have a car, but parking is scarce and would cost £40-£50 per day. I do have a pushbike, but its a 12 mile round trip on busy (or maybe not so busy now?) roads. Only takes a lorry to do an unexpected left turn and you are a streak of jam on the road. Not going to be an option for me.
I'd imagine millions of other people are in the same boat, so what do they think would happen?
I can only imagine its a calculated action, surely nobody could be that stupid that they thought everyone would magically find new ways to get into work whilst still social distancing?
Cool. I could be wrong about this. R0 is the only concept I’m familiar with anyway.
Absolutely the worst. The scenario is probably what the government wanted and shows how out of touch the government is with regards to working class people (and its so odd a lot voted for them and will still do so)
Its a whole bunch of contradictions. A lot of people rely on public transport. But they should only take it if its necessary and safe to do so. But if their employer is basically saying, you have to come back to work, then thats what they gotta do. But then, if they are to follow the guideline, if the bus is 'unsafe' what do the workers do? Wait for the next one? As they cant walk over an hour (or have the luxury of drivers, cars, helicopters etc)
So an employer could be saying come back to work or else.
So employee needs to think, go to work / get paid / risk health or not going to work / stay alert safe / lose money to pay for rent.
Ugh, shit show.
And media putting this on people is absolutely the worst.
12 mile round trip should be doable on a bike but the onus is on the government to make sure cycling is safe as possible BEFORE encouraging people back to work.
In Dublin we’ve seen loads of barriers put up to shield bike lanes from traffic in the last couple of weeks (fecking many years too late and took a global pandemic but whatevs) Is this sort of infrastructural change happening where you live? It should be.
I wouldn’t want to cycle in central London - looks like a death trap! And I assume there’ll be more cars and bikes than ever now.
The Government are also suggesting that people work different shifts to spread the demand for public transport out - e.g. instead of everyone starting at 8/9am, some could start at midday, others at 4pm, etc.
Tory Pigs and their Tory Pig mouthpieces. Fecking vile scum.
So much for social distancing
Nowhere near as busy as it normally is at rush hour to be fair.So much for social distancing
No. I work for the "media" and the blame is on the government. We were criticised for being too harsh on them and not matching to their war drum.
These pictures and videos aren't to point the finger at the public but the government. Look at the coverage post Boris speech. Even Daily Mail had their knives out
Nope. Actual vacant seats! Never see that usually. Bit mad that not everyone is wearing masks. Surely that’s compulsory on public transport now?
No, just advisory in the UK. Difficult for them to push it too much when they have been claiming that there is weak evidence of any benefit for two months.
Phew, what a tough ordeal PMQs is for Boris Johnson:
Guardian said:
Belgium is entering phase 2 of the lockdown lift this week. Shops are already open and all companies were allowed to open last week. Working from home is still recommended.
Weekly markets are now allowed, hairdressers and beauty parlours can reopen, zoo's and museums are opening too. Sporting in group is allowed again, for maximum 20 people and with social distancing. Marriages and funerals are allowed with 30 people, instead of 15.
Weekly markets are now allowed, hairdressers and beauty parlours can reopen, zoo's and museums are opening too. Sporting in group is allowed again, for maximum 20 people and with social distancing. Marriages and funerals are allowed with 30 people, instead of 15.
Just more platitudes from Boris at PMQs. It's no good saying employers must be considerate, that has no real force or meaning. Neither does encouraging people to avoid rush hour or not travel. You need policies to support this and you've had months to come up with them.
It's seriously getting to the point where people are going to think feck it why stay away from family when thats happening every day on the commute.
It's seriously getting to the point where people are going to think feck it why stay away from family when thats happening every day on the commute.
Two issues I think.
We have a government that has a total inability to apologise or ever admit they were wrong on anything (and in fairness, a political system which encourages this behaviour from all sides) so, after not recommending it before, I think they've decided its difficult now to do a complete 180.
I'm not sure we've been buying enough to make it compulsory. I am not really seeing it in many shops and even the couple of websites I've used to buy other supplies (gloves/ hand sanitiser etc) have been sold out of masks.
We need to ask the important questions at this time. Plus indulge our need for a good old fashioned pun...
Not all workplaces have showering facilities either and I wouldn’t want to do a 6 mile bike ride and then sit down to a full days work without a shower first.
This confused me - I'm not following the press conference but I read that "training in groups up to 20 people" was allowed outside. I assumed that meant football's allowed as well again, but that would contradict the social distancing part. Maybe they only mean cycling in groups and stuff like that.
This isn’t where I read it, but the language is the same.
Guardian Covid-19 article
Quoted;
“But the R0 is not the only important number. The effective reproduction number, R, is a value that takes into account the susceptibility of the population”
Not saying it’s scientifically correct, but it made logical sense to me.
The trouble with all this is that they are 'suggesting' things and asking businesses and individuals to exercise 'common sense', rather than leading on things and introducing emergency legislation. We have all worked for idiot managers, and we know what will happen when decisions like this are left to their discression. They don't give a shite, and most of them have not used any form of public transport for years, so have no clue what it's like to commute in on it.
Today was the official end of the state of emergency in my country. The funny thing is there has been a media circus going on during the day due to totally different sort of events going on.
By the way, I just saw the the European Commission is against putting travelling EU citizens in quarantine when they go to other member-states, they also strongly disagree with the proposal of medical certificates being used.
By the way, I just saw the the European Commission is against putting travelling EU citizens in quarantine when they go to other member-states, they also strongly disagree with the proposal of medical certificates being used.
Britain's politics squared:
Ok, I think @11101 covered that already. Re takes into account people being previously infected/vaccinated. R0 assumes nobody immune. So give a better idea of how transmissable a virus is, left to its own devices.
Either way, they can both change depending on people’s behaviour. R0/Re during lockdown will be very different to what it was a few months ago.
Just to add on to what @sglowrider and @Lj82 have said - I strongly disagree we should come out anywhere near the top compared to the likes of South Korea, Hong Kong and Taiwan in Asia especially since we have been through SARS as well. It's funny how some politicians here were openly mocking HK at the beginning of January but we haven't seen much of them recently.
While our community cases outside of foreign workers have been low, it could also be due to all the efforts going into testing the foreign workers where the situation has spiralled out of control despite the awful conditions that they live in being known to everyone including the politicians for quite some time. Countries who have done well managed to take proactive steps, but the measures here have been very reactive in comparison and hence less effective.
And here we have the Minister of Manpower who's supposed to be in charge of the labour force.
More reading: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...re-flipped-from-virus-hero-to-cautionary-tale
For all the criticism about the government's vagueness and ambiguity, they've nevertheless managed to use the words 'You MUST return to work' regularly enough; a mere coincidence, I'm sure.
Its been a little while since I've worked in Epi stuff but I think part of the issue is that R0 itself refers to how many secondary infections are produced by a single infection, into a fully susceptible population.
The reality of that of course is that once you've gotten more than 1 case, you're already technically breaking that definition because your population is no longer fully susceptible.
We always just used R0 to be honest and used it as a number that could change based on interventions, even though I guess linguistically and technically, it isn't exactly the right term.
Jesus. Really?Today was the official end of the state of emergency in my country. The funny thing is there has been a media circus going on during the day due to totally different sort of events going on.
By the way, I just saw the the European Commission is against putting travelling EU citizens in quarantine when they go to other member-states, they also strongly disagree with the proposal of medical certificates being used.