SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

[Drawfull]

I think I said 'efforts were being made', they were in the absence of any scientific test being available taking temperatures. However inadequate the governments in the West were attempting coherent responses given what was available immediately and of course hoping that it would be contained in Wuhan and contact tracing would be effective.

I don't think I'm attempting to claim that any of it has been effective but to say that the West did bugger all until March isn't accurate either.

We've been on cruises, it must have been terrifying and completely disorganised whatever country they eventually landed on. Pass The Parcel hasn't been helpful at all and the unnecessary deaths will never be attributable or fully counted.

Yes but if you have an unscheduled, evacuation charter coming in full of people that have been confined with a known case, then you'd hope at least basic checks would be done. To suggest that perhaps more was being done on random flights stretches credibility.

They were treated excellently, both by the cruise line (they were two weeks in to a 5 week cruise and got 100% refund amongst other things), and the FO. IN Brazil, on the day of departure they were being checked by doctors (not tested) every hour. Prior to that they were being checked for temps 3 times a day. Like I sais, nothing is perfect, but the lack of awareness from Heathrow (or whoever should have put something is place) was staggering.

Edit: I accept that things were being done in the UK before this, was just responding to the Heathrow part.

 

[UncleBob]

As long as people aren't dying as a result of not being able to get a ventilator or an ICU bed then the lockdown didn't come too late. The numbers were always going to be huge.

Depends on the strategy.

 

[Cal?]

Since when is Italy whole of Europe or most of Europe? Furthermore anyone could fly to Italy via a third country. Banning a flight doesn't help. Screening is what helps.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-not-needed-to-beat-china-virus-idUSKBN1ZX1H3

On Feb 3, Tedros was still telling people not to ban international travel.

 

[oates]

Yes but if you have an unscheduled, evacuation charter coming in full of people that have been confined with a known case, then you'd hope at least basic checks would be done. To suggest that perhaps more was being done on random flights stretches credibility.

They were treated excellently, both by the cruise line (they were two weeks in to a 5 week cruise and got 100% refund amongst other things), and the FO. IN Brazil, on the day of departure they were being checked by doctors (not tested) every hour. Prior to that they were being checked for temps 3 times a day. Like I sais, nothing is perfect, but the lack of awareness from Heathrow (or whoever should have put something is place) was staggering.

Edit: I accept that things were being done in the UK before this, was just responding to the Heathrow part.

If you read back I said the tests were simple and relied upon temperatures being taken, I didn't claim anything more was being done and was quite clear. I'm unsure which one of us is stretching credibilty here.

 

[Drawfull]

If you read back I said the tests were simple and relied upon temperatures being taken, I didn't claim anything more was being done and was quite clear. I'm unsure which one of us is stretching credibilty here.

Why weren't they temperature tested then?

 

[oates]

Why weren't they temperature tested then?

I'm unsure if something is being lost in translation.

relied upon temperatures being taken,

 

[Drawfull]

I'm unsure if something is being lost in translation.

You said the tests relied upon temperatures being taken. I dispute that that was in place, for the simple matter that a plane arrived with a great big fecking Coronavirus sticker on the side and the passengers from that specific flight did not have their temp taken.

It is stretching credibility to suggest Heathrow were taking the temperatures of passengers and yet they didn't think this plane - a plane full of people who had been in contact with at least one known case (I don't know the results of the other passengers) - wasn't worth the effort.

Maybe I'm missing something obvious, if so apologies.

 

[Sandikan]

Seriously? People falling for Chinese re-writing of history?

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I think this Sky person is the only person who genuinely believes their figures.

 

[UncleBob]

Same over here, data today shows biggest death day but it was approx 40 /day since Saturday on actual daily figures.

 

[Ekkie Thump]

*4 months ago*

*China:* OK there's a new virus. From now on no one moves around. If you go out, you must wear a mask. Nationwide lockdown and quarantine policies implemented.
*The West:* Don't trust anything these f**ing commies say! It's just a flu! They are trying to control everyone's life! There's no need for masks.
*Asia:* Let's take measures, wear masks and control frontiers

*4 months ago...*
...was December 8th. Hubei was locked down on the 24th of January. That's an extraordinarily large month you've got there. As of January 14th (Less than 3 months ago) reports out of China were still saying there was no evidence of human to human contact, which the WHO passed on and which *The West* seems to have believed.

Your timeline is ballsed up.

From late January onwards sure, many western governments might need to take a long hard look at their responses. China's response from that point on was particularly repressive but also apparently effective - no argument. Before that point the wheels in China seem to have moved slowly, your obfuscations notwithstanding.

 

[UncleBob]

Researchers in Shanghai hope to determine whether some recovered coronavirus patients have a higher risk of reinfection after finding surprisingly low levels of Covid-19 antibodies in a number of people discharged from hospital.
A team from Fudan University analysed blood samples from 175 patients discharged from the Shanghai Public Health Clinical Centre and found that nearly a third had unexpectedly low levels of antibodies.
In some cases, antibodies could not be detected at all.
“Whether these patients were at high risk of rebound or reinfection should be explored in further studies,” the team wrote in preliminary research released on Monday on Medrxiv.org, an online platform for preprint papers.

 

[sammsky1]

I don't believe anybody should go after reparations but China should definitely be held to account in other ways. The world should no longer shrug its shoulders and say 'it's their culture' if a country allows obviously unsafe practices to carry on unchecked.

what do you propose and how will it be enforced?

 

[oates]

You said the tests relied upon temperatures being taken. I dispute that that was in place, for the simple matter that a plane arrived with a great big fecking Coronavirus sticker on the side and the passengers from that specific flight were not tested.

It is stretching credibility to suggest Heathrow were taking the temperatures of passengers and yet they didn't think this plane - a plane full of people who had been in contact with at least one known case (I don't know the results of the other passengers) - wasn't worth the effort.

Maybe I'm missing something obvious, if so apologies.

I confess I know nothing about 'This plane' with a sticker on it.

The original charge was that nothing was being done by or in the West before March.

Airlines were ceasing flying to certain parts of the world, temps were being taken at various airports and contacts being traced as early as the end of Jan and beginning of February. I don't think the response was coherent anywhere in particular.

I feel our correspondence on this point suggests that something was being done before March in stages also depending on information from China, I have nothing else to add.

 

[Drawfull]

I confess I know nothing about 'This plane' with a sticker on it.

The original charge was that nothing was being done by or in the West before March.

Airlines were ceasing flying to certain parts of the world, temps were being taken at various airports and contacts being traced as early as the end of Jan and beginning of February. I don't think the response was coherent anywhere in particular.

I feel our correspondece on this point suggests that something was being done before March in stages also depending on information from China, I have nothing else to add.

I just wanted to know where you'd heard that Heathrow specifically had implemented passenger checks mid-March as per my original reply to your claim. You should get those castors taken off the goalposts. Cheers.

 

[oates]

I just wanted to know where you'd heard that Heathrow specifically had implemented passenger checks mid-March as per my original reply to your claim. You should get those castors taken off the goalposts. Cheers.

You are being ridiculous. It's notable you attempting to demand beyond what was offered.

This backs up when action started and I personally remember temperatures being taken at the same time, I wish I could track down any of the articles among thousands now on the web just to satisfy you but perhaps you could come up with a sourced denial of this yourself.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/26/travel/Coronavirus-travel.html

edit health screening also reported by nytimes as beginning mid Jan. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/04/us/coronavirus-china-travel-restrictions.html

 

[Honest John]

The reason other virus scares like SARS and bird flu were not as devastating as first thought was down in no small measure to the sharing of information early doors.

This does not appear to have happened in this case.

And if the data from China is to be believed - especially now they say they are on top of it, then all I can say is that the speed of their response indicates:

1. A deep knowledge of what would happen and therefore what to do
and
2. A state of readiness.

 

[DoomSlayer]

what do you propose and how will it be enforced?

It would be funny to watch a politically and economically divided Europe try to enforce anything on an authoritarian state like China, which also has almost double the population of our continent.

 

[11101]

what do you propose and how will it be enforced?

Countries might recognise it's not a good idea to outsource their entire supply chain for a start.

 

[stepic]

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The same China who were telling people there was no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV)?

that tweet was from the 14th January. by 30th January at least 54 English-language papers on the coronavirus had been published

 

[Fully Fledged]

I thought the pandemic was caused by a bat virus

That is conjecture. It hasn't been proven how the virus started.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

Researchers in Shanghai hope to determine whether some recovered coronavirus patients have a higher risk of reinfection after finding surprisingly low levels of Covid-19 antibodies in a number of people discharged from hospital.
A team from Fudan University analysed blood samples from 175 patients discharged from the Shanghai Public Health Clinical Centre and found that nearly a third had unexpectedly low levels of antibodies.
In some cases, antibodies could not be detected at all.
“Whether these patients were at high risk of rebound or reinfection should be explored in further studies,” the team wrote in preliminary research released on Monday on Medrxiv.org, an online platform for preprint papers.

If this is true, then it's more or less all over boys and girls. We've basically run into the 'big one', the one that wipes out the human race.

 

[Honest John]

Countries might recognise it's not a good idea to outsource their entire supply chain for a start.

Yep. Start making things again

 

[BusbyMalone]

I know in the grand scheme of things this is very small, but I just came back from my bike ride and I go past shops, post offices, etc. And you see people lining up outside, 6ft apart, most wearing gloves and masks and it just makes you think how fecking crazy this all is. How much the world has changed in a matter of weeks. Again, I know there's obviously way more important and awful things going on than people queuing outside of shops, but I'm saying it more in the sense of how fast people's behaviors have changed.

Just mental to think when we were all celebrating the new year and welcoming in a new decade, that in merely a few month's time the world would be completely changed. Crazy times.

 

[VP89]

I think we can agree on both - that China fecked up, and so did other countries. When it was so clearly a problem in Italy, could have done a lot more a lot sooner.

 

[stepic]

Yep. Start making things again

good luck with that. once this all settles, people are still going to prefer buying things made cheaper due to globalisation.

 

[Cal?]

that tweet was from the 14th January. by 30th January at least 54 English-language papers on the coronavirus had been published

Yet, in early Feb, Tedros was still telling the world not to ban international travel.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-not-needed-to-beat-china-virus-idUSKBN1ZX1H3

 

[VP89]

Meanwhile in Illinois https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/07/us/illinois-mayor-wife-gathering-police-trnd/index.html


"These are very serious times and I'm begging you to please stay at home," Brant Walker, mayor of Alton, Illinois, said in a briefing on Friday.
Less than 48 hours later, police broke up a gathering at Hiram's Tavern in downtown Alton. Among those in attendance: Walker's wife.

 

[Dante]

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938 today Not good

 

[Don't Kill Bill]

Chinese scientists were letting people know in January. most of the West sat on it until March. i can already see Europe deflecting from their own inadequate response by pinning all of this on China, once this is all over and done with.

The WHO issued a statement on 14th Jan that Chinese authorities found no evidence of human to human transmission.

It isn't very likely that they had no evidence as the transmission rate and rapid spread were both indicating it had to be.

There is a massive difference between a virus you catch from close contact with sick animals and one you catch person to person.

 

[Rajma]

Researchers in Shanghai hope to determine whether some recovered coronavirus patients have a higher risk of reinfection after finding surprisingly low levels of Covid-19 antibodies in a number of people discharged from hospital.
A team from Fudan University analysed blood samples from 175 patients discharged from the Shanghai Public Health Clinical Centre and found that nearly a third had unexpectedly low levels of antibodies.
In some cases, antibodies could not be detected at all.
“Whether these patients were at high risk of rebound or reinfection should be explored in further studies,” the team wrote in preliminary research released on Monday on Medrxiv.org, an online platform for preprint papers.

If this will end up as actually correct, 3 month long total and universal lockdown might turn out to be the only solution.

 

[stepic]

Yet, in early Feb, Tedros was still telling the world not to ban international travel.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-not-needed-to-beat-china-virus-idUSKBN1ZX1H3

that's on WHO. i agree they have been shite too.

 

[Shakesy]

The virus was first spotted in Wuhan. We don't know if it originated in Wuhan. Wuhan tried to cover it up. We don't think China covered it up, but it might have. China placed the whole country in an unparalleled lock-down, but the virus already spread beyond it's borders. China, Italy - hell, everyone - underestimated the virus and didn't take quick, decisive action. So the virus spread to almost every country.

Now we're all pissed off. Who are we going to blame? China obviously.

Somehow I don't find this surprising. Infuriating, yes. But not surprising.

 

[stepic]

The WHO issued a statement on 14th Jan that Chinese authorities found no evidence of human to human transmission.

It isn't very likely that they had no evidence as the transmission rate and rapid spread were both indicating it had to be.

There is a massive difference between a virus you catch from close contact with sick animals and one you catch person to person.

a few days later a revised statement was produced. see my earlier post showing that by the end of January loads of papers had been published.

 

[oates]

a few days later a revised statement was produced. see my earlier post showing that by the end of January loads of papers had been published.

Just out of curiosity did all of the papers give the same responses and answers as such?

 

[Honest John]

good luck with that. once this all settles, people are still going to prefer buying things made cheaper due to globalisation.

When this thing is over I would think there will be enough people in this world who's lives and families have suffered a massive blow because of this. Tapping into that emotion with some negative propaganda regarding the purchasing Chinese products would not be a difficult thing to do.

I honestly don't know. What do you reckon? Do you think, for example, the Huawei deal will go ahead now?

 

[Di Maria's angel]

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938 today Not good

Have to wonder why we didn't lockdown earlier.

 

[Dante]

Have to wonder why we didn't lockdown earlier.

You've been told why multiple times earlier in the thread.

 

[Cal?]

that's on WHO. i agree they have been shite too.

Tedros is basically on China's payroll.

 

[predator]

Has any country surpassed 1000 deaths in a single day?

 

[justboy68]

I think we can agree on both - that China fecked up, and so did other countries. When it was so clearly a problem in Italy, could have done a lot more a lot sooner.

This should really be the only conclusion. I remember the BBC clip where a bloke was interviewed coming through a UK airport having returned from Wuhan itself in mid January. Even he was slightly appalled that he hadn't been tested or screened in any way. Trying to claim that Western countries like the UK were taking serious measures is a bizarre rewriting of history. As are any attempts to absolve or ignore the mistakes of the Chinese government.