maybe i'm being a little unfair, but the general point is that a lot of countries have had their own failings in their response (which is to be expected), and that i don't think it's fair to purely pin all of this on China. pandemics are a real threat, and will continue to be in the future, and the world needs to be better as a whole at dealing with them. just blaming China is missing the bigger picture.
SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)
- Thread starter Don't Kill Bill
- Start date
Let's just put this 'The West sat on its hands' to bed. As early as Jan 26 the New York Times were reporting on efforts being made to test and contact trace in Airports and by authorities at Heathrow and other European countries. Not exactly doing nothing and not actually in full possesion of the facts from the Chinese governt.
Fair enough, it will be interesting to see how Iceland develops.
On the highlighted quote, I don't think that's necessarily quite true anymore - but it might just depend on each German state. Just based on an anecdote - a friend of mine was randomly tested just the weekend gone after one of her colleagues was a confirmed case. Though she's staying in a fairly small town (Naumburg).
The original 3 weeks isn't up until Monday anyway. I'd be amazed if it wasn't extended beyond that though
Poorly formatted post
I am not defending their style of government but it's better to understand what happened. China is a lot more federal than most people understand.
What happened in Wuhan can't be blamed as hiding from the central government.
Did Wuhan hide it? Of course they did. It's only in late December that the central government realised what was going on. I would accept the timings for them to send a team to Wuhan, investigate it and then get the testing on the virus and inform everyone in early to mid January.
There was no hiding by the central government. There was hiding by the Wuhan government.
As for the WHO they simply can't declare a pandemic by the guy who is on the TV.
They have an executive board too comprising of health officials of various governments from all over the world including the USA. Trump still have not nominated anyone to this post.
The western governments sat on their arse all these months. They did feck all from early January till early to mid March. That's two months. Now they are trying to deflect their own incompetence and liability for this disaster onto other countries in this case China.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/15/business/china-coronavirus-lockdown.html
To Tame Coronavirus, Mao-Style Social Control Blankets China
They're still making fun of the lockdown in Febuary, at that rate the death number is already very high
To Tame Coronavirus, Mao-Style Social Control Blankets China
They're still making fun of the lockdown in Febuary, at that rate the death number is already very high
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What the feck is this? This belongs in some other thread.
Even WHO was giving wrong advice upto February iirc.
Has there really been testing at Heathrow? Before the UK lockdown, my parents were quarantined off Brazil for 9 days, to be subsequently flown back to UK on a Foreign Office chartered flight (with help from the cruise line). There was at least one positive case on a very small ship hence the quarantine.
When they disembarked the ship in Recife, they were taken via police convoy to the airport, literally onto the tarmac next to the steps of the plane. They were not allowed any contact whatsoever with the local people there. Upon arrival at Heathrow, there was literally nothing: no checks, no segregation, no advice, no enforced UK quarantine. All passengers were allowed to make their own onward travel arrangements (local flights had been arranged, but these were not compulsory). My parents took a 12-seater minibus from a Chauffeur company and sat, fully maxed-up on the rear row. They told the company in advance that they were returning from an infected ship, and the company was great. Driver had his own PPE and had no contact with my parents.
TLDR: Heathrow were doing feck all with known potential cases as little as 3 weeks ago. I can't see them having been doing much more any time prior to that.
As usual I think the truth is somewhere in between both arguments. But ultimately the western governments are still responsible for the way they've managed it in their own countries, because they still had the opportunity to react much earlier than they did.
Cheltenham going ahead was crazy. And that's not even hindsight, I thought that at the time, couldn't believe it
Here in Wales, the government has already decided that the lockdown will 'definitely' be extended.
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
The same China who were telling people there was no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV)?
My bad. Can't count on my fingers.
The virus finding its way into humans.
No, it's sad and untrue
Funny, sad and true.
Potentially silly question but how do I know if my mask is single use or can be washed and reused?
I think I said 'efforts were being made', they were in the absence of any scientific test being available taking temperatures. However inadequate the governments in the West were attempting coherent responses given what was available immediately and of course hoping that it would be contained in Wuhan and contact tracing would be effective.
I don't think I'm attempting to claim that any of it has been effective but to say that the West did bugger all until March isn't accurate either.
We've been on cruises, it must have been terrifying and completely disorganised whatever country they eventually landed on. Pass The Parcel hasn't been helpful at all and the unnecessary deaths will never be attributable or fully counted.
The massive cover up early in January that caused the pandemic
Tends to say so on the packaging
Nearly another 1000 people died today.
The number is scary.
The number is scary.
This goes without saying, really. Anyone who thought it'd be relaxed after the initial 3 weeks is crazy.
I stand by the prediction of 3 +3 + 2. Then gradual release.
People just believe what they want to, don't even bother trying to look into actual evidence. Just make up their bullshit as they go along.
Same.
When my Dad* told me and my sister that he was going to Cheltenham, we berated him over the phone for a good while about how stupid he was being. He still went.
*62 year old key worker in a care home for the elderly, has had a plethora of heart problems himself in the last 10 years, incredibly high risk, surrounded by even higher risk people.
The clue's in the thread title
What do you mean by other European airports? I flew via Frankfurt on the 10th of February and nothing was done. It was business as usual. I flew into Canada on the 12th and nothing out of the ordinary. Same business as usual.
18 December was the first report of an old man with problem in Wuhan.
End of December Beijing decide it's a new virus. Around the 11th Jan they informed who that they have no credible evidence of human to human transfer. Three days later they informed that they now think it does transfer human to human.
Now from 18th January the USA and Europe did feck all.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/daveke...ina-before-americait-didnt-work/#6d1abd61481b
Italy banned flights from China on Jan 31
German, Swiss and Austrian airports and airlines. I think you'll have to look back at the post I answered to see the context of my answer and the gist of that was that no-one in the West responded before March. The week before the 26th Heathrow were taking what measures they could. Edit Before March was when European Airports and Airlines were responding.
Three days later they did inform the WHO that now they think it does pass from human to human. This is around the 18th of January. So yes some countries are trying to rewrite history for their own incompetence and liability and doing feck all from 18th January till early March. The USA had their first case on the 23rd January. The same day Korea had their first case.
I was talking about the compensatory scheme you referred to in your next sentence, which you said would have led to the majority of businesses temporarily shutting down of their own volition.
We can agree that if they provided more compensation direct to businesses at that time, it would have encouraged more businesses to close. But rather than debate how many more would have closed within this hypothetical scenario, let's just stick with the imperfect evidence we have.
Does the evidence support your view?
I was in Heathrow in January, February and March. Their priority was on a seamless passenger experience not on strict health protocols. Other European airports were slightly more cautious.
I thought the pandemic was caused by a bat virus
Since when is Italy whole of Europe or most of Europe? Furthermore anyone could fly to Italy via a third country. Banning a flight doesn't help. Screening is what helps.
FFS. The original statement being responded to stated March.
Sorry. I thought you meant in January and February they were taking measures at European airports.
The Spanish Prime minister was open in an interview at their lockdown saying they tried to stay open for economic reasons but had to change.
The illness is caused by the virus and it would likely have become an epidemic.
It developed into a pandemic due to the Chinese cover-up and WHO incompetence.