Sparky Rhiwabon
New Member
- Joined
- Jul 10, 2013
- Messages
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If Andy Burnham, etc, rejects the move to Tier 3 for Manchester, does that mean it won’t happen, because the Government have said that it’s down to local government to enforce it?
No. I gave you an example of working. There are many more. But we only need one to discuss why ours is a horror show.Which would imply that Germany are the exception, when other countries with similar problems, similar riches, different technology bases, different political objectives and different growth trajectories have performed similarly, as far as I can tell.
Aiming to be the best is sensible enough if the things that allowed the best to be that are achievable in a short period of time, or is part of a longer term political criticism, but suggesting that it is a critical failure despite being among the best of the rest is a bit...questionable.
Many. Germany. South Korea. Start with them and then work through the Atlas.Which countries have done better?
You're basically screaming at the wall here. You responded to this question: which countries have done better [than a 40% contact rate]. That's what he said, and it doesn't have anything to do with tests.No. I gave you an example of working. There are many more. But we only need one to discuss why ours is a horror show.
Germany is a half day drive away. They’re a political ally. They run on principally the same system as us. They have no natural advantage and close to identical climates, ability to spend, political clout, the works.
We are not among the best of the rest. What don’t you get? Are you just looking at numbers tested? Because every country that’s getting it right has not entered into a dick swinging contest advertising testing numbers. Total tested is POINTLESS.
Our testing is an absolute unmitigated disaster. Not a single element of it is working.
But I haven't followed it that closely, hence why I asked him who he was using as a benchmark for what the appropriate standard is, and who meets said standard. That's what I "don't get". Maybe if you spent more time reading what people said rather than shouting at a screen you'd find it a bit easier to understand people.In Germany, people said they would refuse to hand over names to contact tracers at double the rate of Britons, according to a poll by Imperial College London.
They have done better at containing the virus, sure. But this is about your 40% figure contact rate quoted. What's the list of these many countries, and where's the evidence? I'm pretty sure the list of countries that have done better is not longer than the list that have done worse, in that specific issue, and the ones who have done better have the legislation in place to do so. Most people in Europe are fine with that concession, even in these times. Korea allow their privacy to be invaded in a way they themselves don't even like, but accept after the measures were forced through from MERS. They wouldn't have volunteered to do it now, in the way most of Europe would not volunteer to do it now, even with the health benefits.Many. Germany. South Korea. Start with them and then work through the Atlas.
A shorter answer would be what countries have done worse. We have the highest death rate in Europe for a reason.
Ironically, you don't need to look outside the country for 98%+ contact rates. Just look at instance where local public health officials are doing the contacting, rather than Serco running an expensive and incompotent national service.You're basically screaming at the wall here. You responded to this question: which countries have done better [than a 40% contact rate]. That's what he said, and it doesn't have anything to do with tests.
So, same question again, which countries are doing better at getting people to voluntarily give up a high number of contacts, in the tracing part of this test and trace system? What we know is that Taiwan is a benchmark, where they have fewer data protection rules and the government has more power to coerce that information from you. On average they give up 15 contacts. In Spain they get 3, in France they get just under 3, in the US they get just over 1. In the UK, they get 5. Nowhere near the benchmark, but that benchmark is set under different conditions, and better than comparable peers. Even Germany, as per the limited data I've seen.
But I haven't followed it that closely, hence why I asked him who he was using as a benchmark for what the appropriate standard is, and who meets said standard. That's what I "don't get". Maybe if you spent more time reading what people said rather than shouting at a screen you'd find it a bit easier to understand people.
They have done better at containing the virus, sure. But this is about your 40% figure contact rate quoted. What's the list of these many countries, and where's the evidence? I'm pretty sure the list of countries that have done better is not longer than the list that have done worse, in that specific issue, and the ones who have done better have the legislation in place to do so. Most people in Europe are fine with that concession, even in these times. Korea allow their privacy to be invaded in a way they themselves don't even like, but accept after the measures were forced through from MERS. They wouldn't have volunteered to do it now, in the way most of Europe would not volunteer to do it now, even with the health benefits.
The only thing we are world-beating at is sheer incompetence.Ironically, you don't need to look outside the country for 98%+ contact rates. Just look at instance where local public health officials are doing the contacting, rather than Serco running an expensive and incompotent national service.
https://www.theguardian.com/society...covid-rates-launch-own-test-and-trace-systems
And this is before we even delve into the UK covid app debacle. Compare that with other countries too.
I genuinely don't understand why you feel the need to defend the UK's catastrophically poor response to Covid. It fails by every metric.
Unless you can share some metrics where we are "World beating"?
You will find local areas in countries that outperform others, for a myriad of reasons, in the same way you will find "catastrophically poor" rates in almost all similar countries at a national level, for a different myriad of reasons. If it was so easy to scale up that performance level to an entire country, you'd see it almost everywhere you look, because they haven't all used the same rip off private companies. So let's stick with your original claim, rather than moving the goalposts. How many countries have done better on the specific metric you've cited, and where's the evidence?Ironically, you don't need to look outside the country for 98%+ contact rates. Just look at instance where local public health officials are doing the contacting, rather than Serco running an expensive and incompotent national service.
https://www.theguardian.com/society...covid-rates-launch-own-test-and-trace-systems
And this is before we even delve into the UK covid app debacle. Compare that with other countries too.
I genuinely don't understand why you feel the need to defend the UK's catastrophically poor response to Covid. It fails by every metric.
Unless you can share some metrics where we are "World beating"?
What we know is that Taiwan is a benchmark, where they have fewer data protection rules and the government has more power to coerce that information from you. On average they give up 15 contacts. In Spain they get 3, in France they get just under 3, in the US they get just over 1. In the UK, they get 5. Nowhere near the benchmark, but that benchmark is set under different conditions, and better than comparable peers. Even Germany, as per the limited data I've seen.
Not for the first time I’ve thought that the obsession with data protection at all costs in the EU causes more problems than it solves. Although never thought it would literally costs lives before the end of 2020. Although possibly a discussion for a different thread!You will find local areas in countries that outperform others, for a myriad of reasons, in the same way you will find "catastrophically poor" rates in almost all similar countries at a national level, for a different myriad of reasons. If it was so easy to scale up that performance level to an entire country, you'd see it almost everywhere you look, because they haven't all used the same rip off private companies. So let's stick with your original claim, rather than moving the goalposts. How many countries have done better on the specific metric you've cited, and where's the evidence?
I would be shocked if any of the UK's response was world beating. I do think their initial financial response was among the best, and markedly better than obvious peers, but whether that was the right decision in the long run is hard to know at this stage. There have been plenty of shocking failures on the public health front. I just don't see any evidence for the current fashionable criticism. I think it's more likely you were conned into believing that test and trace could perform miracles it couldn't, and there is increasing evidence from previous leading lights like Czech Republic that seem to indicate the success of the test and trace system is entirely contingent on the virus being managed at low levels. It cannot cause that, nor overturn it. Czech Republic's system went from "world-beating" to "embarrassing" very quickly, despite no changes to the actual system. That's quite hard to reconcile with the current criticism leveraged at the UK system.
It seems far more useful to me to recognise the limitations of the test and trace system, by putting it in an international context and comparing the performance, than by holding it to an impossible standard and then repeatedly claiming it's "an unmitigated disaster". Because then it allows national attention to refocus on actual practical measures, rather than consistently hanging on to this idea of the holy grail. People are using it as a get out of jail free card. If only these Serco bastards could do their jobs, I could do my job. And it's another excuse to stoke up the north-south divide. If only the national government did this one thing, we could succeed in stopping the virus with our own additional measures. Bullshit.
And yes, it is galling they paid a fortune to a company that has done a mediocre job, when we could have invested a lot less for our own organisation to do a mediocre job. But the idea that they could do an acceptable job, as per your standards, seems to be pure fantasy. And it might have been fantasy created by the government but that isn't an excuse to keep believing it now, in the absence of credible evidence. Rather than picking holes, what have you seen that contradicts this?
Yeah, I've not given a lot of thought to it myself but it's definitely a contributing factor in the contact tracing process. As much because of the legal requirements as it is because of general attitudes to data privacy, and what it's worth sacrificing for. I've got a survey running that briefly touches on the subject and it seems to me that attitudes are simultaneously resolute, and largely inconsistent.Not for the first time I’ve thought that the obsession with data protection at all costs in the EU causes more problems than it solves. Although never thought it would literally costs lives before the end of 2020. Although possibly a discussion for a different thread!
The government set a target of 80% contact rate and our scientists said we need to achieve that 80% for it to be effective. That should be the minimum benchmark.You will find local areas in countries that outperform others, for a myriad of reasons, in the same way you will find "catastrophically poor" rates in almost all similar countries at a national level, for a different myriad of reasons. If it was so easy to scale up that performance level to an entire country, you'd see it almost everywhere you look, because they haven't all used the same rip off private companies. So let's stick with your original claim, rather than moving the goalposts. How many countries have done better on the specific metric you've cited, and where's the evidence?
I would be shocked if any of the UK's response was world beating. I do think their initial financial response was among the best, and markedly better than obvious peers, but whether that was the right decision in the long run is hard to know at this stage. There have been plenty of shocking failures on the public health front. I just don't see any evidence for the current fashionable criticism. I think it's more likely you were conned into believing that test and trace could perform miracles it couldn't, and there is increasing evidence from previous leading lights like Czech Republic that seem to indicate the success of the test and trace system is entirely contingent on the virus being managed at low levels. It cannot cause that, nor overturn it. Czech Republic's system went from "world-beating" to "embarrassing" very quickly, despite no changes to the actual system. That's quite hard to reconcile with the current criticism leveraged at the UK system.
It seems far more useful to me to recognise the limitations of the test and trace system, by putting it in an international context and comparing the performance, than by holding it to an impossible standard and then repeatedly claiming it's "an unmitigated disaster". Because then it allows national attention to refocus on actual practical measures, rather than consistently hanging on to this idea of the holy grail. People are using it as a get out of jail free card. If only these Serco bastards could do their jobs, I could do my job. And it's another excuse to stoke up the north-south divide. If only the national government did this one thing, we could succeed in stopping the virus with our own additional measures. Bullshit.
And yes, it is galling they paid a fortune to a company that has done a mediocre job, when we could have invested a lot less for our own organisation to do a mediocre job. But the idea that they could do an acceptable job, as per your standards, seems to be pure fantasy. And it might have been fantasy created by the government but that isn't an excuse to keep believing it now, in the absence of credible evidence. Rather than picking holes, what have you seen that contradicts this?
@Brwned@Brwned
Our testing is shot. I got my result back today. 5 days. Result? Inconclusive.
I have been isolating with my partner for those 5 days.
My last outing was to a pub on Saturday. All four of us checked in using the App.
I advised my two friends. One is a builder and can’t work from home. But he rode to work this week instead of taking the tube, wore a mask at work and advised the other two people on site of his situation. His partner worked from home this week.
The App hasn’t alerted any of them that they’ve spent time with someone that has logged two of three symptoms. I can’t log an inconclusive test result for some reason.
This is 5 days. We’re all like minded and affluent individuals so I don’t think the impact is too bad. But what if all four of us had a job that meant we had to work with others?
This is not anecdotal evidence. This is evidencing example. There are countless stories like this.
You seem to be fixated on the numbers and percentages and who’s doing better.
The absolute core fundamentals of our system are broken. There are no examples of this System working for the majority. Fcuk loads of people are dead. The devil does not need an advocate here.
I’m not shouting at a wall, I’m pissed off. Everyone should be. The people we trust to look after society have failed us. Looking for cracks of daylight as we continue to be covered in an ever increasing pile of rubble is not helpful to anyone.
You’re suggesting that we support and buy into a narrative that is ‘Some are doing worse, few are doing better’.
Fcuk. That.
This was the laugh I needed. Going through this thread puts you in an unrelentingly bleak mood.Hopefully she won't be mauled by a dog in the interim
I have lots of friends with similar stories. I cant fathom how people think the UK is doing well with all this. It's a complete mess of a system. I saw the UK is bragging that 1/3 of tests are now getting results within 24 hours. In Italy I can get a test any time I like and the results will be back in a couple of hours at most. Same in Switzerland. Both countries have had functioning tracking apps for months.@Brwned
Our testing is shot. I got my result back today. 5 days. Result? Inconclusive.
I have been isolating with my partner for those 5 days.
My last outing was to a pub on Saturday. All four of us checked in using the App.
I advised my two friends. One is a builder and can’t work from home. But he rode to work this week instead of taking the tube, wore a mask at work and advised the other two people on site of his situation. His partner worked from home this week.
The App hasn’t alerted any of them that they’ve spent time with someone that has logged two of three symptoms. I can’t log an inconclusive test result for some reason.
This is 5 days. We’re all like minded and affluent individuals so I don’t think the impact is too bad. But what if all four of us had a job that meant we had to work with others?
This is not anecdotal evidence. This is evidencing example. There are countless stories like this.
You seem to be fixated on the numbers and percentages and who’s doing better.
The absolute core fundamentals of our system are broken. There are no examples of this System working for the majority. Fcuk loads of people are dead. The devil does not need an advocate here.
I’m not shouting at a wall, I’m pissed off. Everyone should be. The people we trust to look after society have failed us. Looking for cracks of daylight as we continue to be covered in an ever increasing pile of rubble is not helpful to anyone.
You’re suggesting that we support and buy into a narrative that is ‘Some are doing worse, few are doing better’.
Fcuk. That.
Man, there's a reason why you haven't provided the evidence for your initial claim, the only claim I've ever challenged of yours. That many other countries are doing contact tracing better, or the list of countries doing it better is longer than the list of countries doing it worse. The evidence does not exist. And there's a reason for that, too. Ignoring that reason only serves to amplify political rhetoric and distract from practical solutions.The government set a target of 80% contact rate and our scientists said we need to achieve that 80% for it to be effective. That should be the minimum benchmark.
You say we could have paid our own
organisation to do a "mediocre job". Yet I've given you evidence of public health achieving 98% contact rate vs Serco at 40%. If both 98% and 40% are defined as mediocre by you then I don't know where to start. The decision to use Serco was a massive £12bn mistake.
If there are large variations in local area for a "myriad of reasons", then maybe the project should be managed locally by health organisations that understand the area?
That's not what I've said. I'll put it in a single sentence for you.@Brwned
Our testing is shot. I got my result back today. 5 days. Result? Inconclusive.
I have been isolating with my partner for those 5 days.
My last outing was to a pub on Saturday. All four of us checked in using the App.
I advised my two friends. One is a builder and can’t work from home. But he rode to work this week instead of taking the tube, wore a mask at work and advised the other two people on site of his situation. His partner worked from home this week.
The App hasn’t alerted any of them that they’ve spent time with someone that has logged two of three symptoms. I can’t log an inconclusive test result for some reason.
This is 5 days. We’re all like minded and affluent individuals so I don’t think the impact is too bad. But what if all four of us had a job that meant we had to work with others?
This is not anecdotal evidence. This is evidencing example. There are countless stories like this.
You seem to be fixated on the numbers and percentages and who’s doing better.
The absolute core fundamentals of our system are broken. There are no examples of this System working for the majority. Fcuk loads of people are dead. The devil does not need an advocate here.
I’m not shouting at a wall, I’m pissed off. Everyone should be. The people we trust to look after society have failed us. Looking for cracks of daylight as we continue to be covered in an ever increasing pile of rubble is not helpful to anyone.
You’re suggesting that we support and buy into a narrative that is ‘Some are doing worse, few are doing better’.
Fcuk. That.
Grim.132 dead yesterday. Over 500 total this week. All ICUs across the country are full, in some areas if you have heart attack you are dead as they won't even attempt to help you anymore as they don't have ambulances.
Yes, that's a feature of the pandemic being out of control in your locality, not a feature of the system. This is in the Czech Republic last week.@Brwned
I can validate that. My office colleague tested positive 6 days ago.
He spoke to test and trace 6 days ago but no one I work with has been contacted by them yet. Luckily we have all self isolated because our colleague told us.
I had symptoms but luckily I tested negative, so guess it was a cold or flu in my case.
At the start of the pandemic they were praised for having so few cases you "couldn't even call it an epidemic", and the contact tracing system was seen as key to keeping it that way. Then things got out of control.The track-and-trace system has struggled to keep up. Authorities are taking days - sometimes 14 - to contact people who might have come into contact with an infected person. Its helplines are permanently engaged,
I am not saying the test and trace system is working well now in the UK. I'm saying the contact tracing aspect of the system cannot work well under these conditions. The problem is there are too many cases in your area, every day, for those people to process all of those contacts. It is physically impossible with the current numbers, no systematic updates would change that, the financial costs to resolve that would be so absurd, and the recruitment and training lead times would be so impractical, that it will always be that way.But it is the Czech Republic that leads the pack when it comes to “fast-track” COVID-19 measures.
The country was one of the first EU member states to declare a state of emergency, on March 12. And only a week later, it became the first EU country to make it mandatory for everyone to wear face masks in public.
The Czech tech sector was also quick to act. In mid-March, the country’s largest search engine, Seznam, introduced a coronavirus tracing feature on its geolocation app, Maps.cz. With a user’s permission, it draws on location data to inform people if they have crossed paths with anyone who has tested positive.
A month later, the Czech Health Ministry released a Bluetooth-based social tracing app known as eRouska (eMask). The app anonymously detects pairings among different devices on which the app has been installed. Similar technology is now being developed all across Europe.
The app is integrated into a more complex solution called the Smart Quarantine, which combines data from cell phones and payment cards. With a user’s permission, local hygiene stations can use this data to isolate individuals who have come into contact with infected people.
Jan Kulveit, a senior researcher at the Future of Humanity Institute at Oxford University, is one of the two main strategists for the system developed by Covid19.cz, a group of Czech tech companies and IT enthusiasts working on tech-based solutions out of the current crisis. He said developing an app is the easy part.
“The tricky part is to ensure that these technical solutions are somehow integrated into a system that local hygiene stations can obtain information from, and then act upon,” he said in a phone interview.
“In this sense, the Czech Republic is a few weeks ahead of Germany and most other European countries. We’re actually currently in contact with several countries who expressed their interest in our model.”
Yeah, but @Hanks scored with Leeds lass.132 dead yesterday. Over 500 total this week. All ICUs across the country are full, in some areas if you have heart attack you are dead as they won't even attempt to help you anymore as they don't have ambulances.
Yes I agree.@Brwned about Czech: I was there in early March and mid July as I see a czech girl at times. The reason why they did well in the first wave was because they acted early. Early lockdown, travel restrictions, mask rules from the start. Nothing to do with test and trace.
Then after coming out of lockdown the mood in the country was that "we beat covid" which was ridiculous of course. And it didn't help that billionaire PM didn't listen to the health officials.
Having been spared in the first wave they didn’t think it could hit them like this. Lacking that experience they would have needed strong leadership in taking action already about 1-2 months ago. Now they test positive about 30 % of the time. Test and trace is meaningless at that point.
Well it's not like people in Poland treat this seriously either. They all think it's people dying from other causes and doctors signing them off as covid to get more money and chip us with a vaccine.Yeah, but @Hanks scored with Leeds lass.
Shouldn’t your mate be self isolating at home instead of working at the site? Surely he doesn’t need an app to tell him that?@Brwned
Our testing is shot. I got my result back today. 5 days. Result? Inconclusive.
I have been isolating with my partner for those 5 days.
My last outing was to a pub on Saturday. All four of us checked in using the App.
I advised my two friends. One is a builder and can’t work from home. But he rode to work this week instead of taking the tube, wore a mask at work and advised the other two people on site of his situation. His partner worked from home this week.
The App hasn’t alerted any of them that they’ve spent time with someone that has logged two of three symptoms. I can’t log an inconclusive test result for some reason.
This is 5 days. We’re all like minded and affluent individuals so I don’t think the impact is too bad. But what if all four of us had a job that meant we had to work with others?
This is not anecdotal evidence. This is evidencing example. There are countless stories like this.
You seem to be fixated on the numbers and percentages and who’s doing better.
The absolute core fundamentals of our system are broken. There are no examples of this System working for the majority. Fcuk loads of people are dead. The devil does not need an advocate here.
I’m not shouting at a wall, I’m pissed off. Everyone should be. The people we trust to look after society have failed us. Looking for cracks of daylight as we continue to be covered in an ever increasing pile of rubble is not helpful to anyone.
You’re suggesting that we support and buy into a narrative that is ‘Some are doing worse, few are doing better’.
Fcuk. That.
The NHS website says:Shouldn’t your mate be self isolating at home instead of working at the site? Surely he doesn’t need an app to tell him that?
You want him to take a financial hit because he sat at a pub table with me for two hours and I have a fever and a cough?Shouldn’t your mate be self isolating at home instead of working at the site? Surely he doesn’t need an app to tell him that?
I am not defending the system. The system doesn't work. There is no evidence that any tracing system works when the virus spread this much. Demanding it does work seems kind of pointless if it cannot possibly work under those conditions, and there is no evidence that it has worked in France, Italy, Spain and various other countries of the same size, with the same conditions. It has also failed in smaller countries, with both better conditions and worse conditions. And because we have limited resources and limited time, it is not just pointless but counterproductive and harmful.@Brwned
Mate, we’ve had 10 months.
You’ve accused me of shouting at a wall.
I fully expect a system that can scale. Ours doesn’t work. Let alone scale.
Yes some systems can’t meet capacity. Yes there will be resistance to adoption. Yes there will be mistakes.
But Our government tells everyone we have a world leading test, track and trace service. That we have the capacity to test 350,000 a day.
The reality is that Our testing system is on its knees at 5 figure outputs. Has Throttled access points. It’s late. Costs more than most of Europe’s system COMBINED. It’s an abject failure.
Pointing out small countries inability to scale is foolhardy.
My brother in law lives in Baden-Wuttenburg and has a lot of friends in Bavaria. Their lived experience in Germany is night and day from us
Some regions have had some issues. But one regions issues don’t feck up the whole country because they’re decentralised.
You keep suggesting that other countries contract tracing systems don’t work. You’re using stats like number of contacts contacted. You’re missing out the key qualifier of time. Every day counts. Numbers get big so damn quick.
25% of test results inside 24 hours, coupled with an ill-functioning app and poor contact tracing.
vs
75% of test results inside 24 hours, coupled to a functioning app and functioning contact tracing.
Those Two scenarios lead to wildly different outcomes.
We are still trumpeting number of tests. Why? Raise the threshold to get a test in order to lower the burden on labs, in order to return results faster. In order to start contact tracing sooner.
The government is still talking about getting to half a million tests a day. There’s no fecking point in that. They chase headlines. We can’t process that level of test output. If we manage to get to that number we can’t run a successful contact tracing system.
It’s a public health crisis, you’re often borrowing from Peter to pay Paul. But why do we as a country not have the humility to just copy off the brightest kids in class. You know half the cabinet has done that for their whole life.
You and I aren’t really at odds. I just object to any kind of defence of £12 Billion resulting in this. Better performing countries are yet to push through £1 Billion in expenditure.
Ach, burn it all down.
Hmm OK, what’s the point of the track and trace app then because everyone should be social distancing anyway?The NHS website says:
If you think you've been in contact with someone who has coronavirus, but you do not have symptoms and have not been told to self-isolate, continue to follow social distancing advice.
So in the absence of symptoms it seems he doesn't have to self isolate, rightly or wrongly.
I'm frequently in Prague/the Czech Republic (last time in mid September) so I could see the development in stages. The one thing I didn't understand is why they lifted the mandatory mask rule in supermarkets and public transport (apart from the metro). That really sent the wrong signal.@Brwned about Czech: I was there in early March and mid July as I see a czech girl at times. The reason why they did well in the first wave was because they acted early. Early lockdown, travel restrictions, mask rules from the start. Nothing to do with test and trace.
Then after coming out of lockdown the mood in the country was that "we beat covid" which was ridiculous of course. And it didn't help that billionaire PM didn't listen to the health officials.
Having been spared in the first wave they didn’t think it could hit them like this. Lacking that experience they would have needed strong leadership in taking action already about 1-2 months ago. Now they test positive about 30 % of the time. Test and trace is meaningless at that point.
Is that definitely true? Sounds horrific. How on earth are the “just a flu” cretins squaring that with their beliefs?132 dead yesterday. Over 500 total this week. All ICUs across the country are full, in some areas if you have heart attack you are dead as they won't even attempt to help you anymore as they don't have ambulances.
Yes. It was very easy to see that they would end up in this situation. Should have started to act already 6 weeks ago. And problem for them is, that it is the whole country with similar figures, not just Prague.I'm frequently in Prague/the Czech Republic (last time in mid September) so I could see the development in stages. The one thing I didn't understand is why they lifted the mandatory mask rule in supermarkets and public transport (apart from the metro). That really sent the wrong signal.
Apparently it is but fortunately I haven't been able to verify. Lots of noises from medical staff saying similar things though.Is that definitely true? Sounds horrific. How on earth are the “just a flu” cretins squaring that with their beliefs?
Hmm OK, what’s the point of the track and trace app then because everyone should be social distancing anyway?
Soon we will have non-league restriction tablesTweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Whole thing is beyond a joke, should be made to walk the people in charge.