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Terminator

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Where is all this criticism coming from? I don't understand.

Decent last night and scored the match winning goal.
 

Kweku Amonoo

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When you watch the likes of Gundogan and Thiago play in central midfield then you come to watch Mctominay play, you’ll understand why we are taking forever to be great again.
 

spiriticon

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Yeah I don't get the criticism for Scott either. I like him a lot. He is very dynamic and he tries to be adventurous with his passing, even though his execution isn't always there. I don't fault a player for trying a forward pass. Better than sitting deep and passing it sideways all the time.

Most importantly, he plays for the club and not himself. Those type of players are incredibly hard to find these days.
 

marktan

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He's not going to be a Scholes type midfielder ever, so using that as a bench mark is harsh.

His qualities are:
- Great tackling
- Great work rate
- Great finishing around the box
- Can drive with the ball

His weaknesses are:
- Passing

Of course lacking higher tier passing as a midfielder is crux, but he has enough other qualities to be a good long term player for us. I'm hopefully he'll add to his passing as he matures as he's still young.
 

Poborsky's hair

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Yeah I don't get the criticism for Scott either. I like him a lot. He is very dynamic and he tries to be adventurous with his passing, even though his execution isn't always there. I don't fault a player for trying a forward pass. Better than sitting deep and passing it sideways all the time.

Most importantly, he plays for the club and not himself. Those type of players are incredibly hard to find these days.
I disagree, he runs a lot but his acceleration is quite subpar, so is his positioning, which are the main attributes of a midfielder or any outfield player. If he was at least a good passer but again he showed he's really terrible one, can't string basic passes together and mostly just turns and pass back or play very basic pass. We couldn't control the midfield and neither could create anything of note. You just knew the ball coming to him or VdB it will go to our fullback and then back to our back 4 ad passing in this "u" shape, really "vintage" Sheffield United of last season.

He's a player for underdog team who has no possession and likes to defend, even then he needs a DM next to him because he struggle to be up to speed of the game, covering the right spaces. Ideally he's a bench player for Moyes'es West Ham, never for Manchester united.

And I am happy he scored a goal but except that he showed his limitations again. The lad just had a great luck he was around the right time when we needed a player. Ideally we will upgrade our first teamers so our squad players drop down the pecking order. Till thatwe just have to hope Scott has one of his better games when he gets to play..
 

Poborsky's hair

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He's not going to be a Scholes type midfielder ever, so using that as a bench mark is harsh.

His qualities are:
- Great tackling
- Great work rate
- Great finishing around the box
- Can drive with the ball

His weaknesses are:
- Passing

Of course lacking higher tier passing as a midfielder is crux, but he has enough other qualities to be a good long term player for us. I'm hopefully he'll add to his passing as he matures as he's still young.
Would Barcelona, Real, Mancity ever consider having a player like that? You know your answer. Same way Fellaini was not a good fit for us, neither is Scott. Right now he's where he is because he played so many games due to timing when he was available and his manager Mourinho being a fan, so he will naturally get better but imagine giving that game time to a more talented player.

If McTominay wasn't Scottish he wouldn't get as much gametime and neither would even midtable clubs ask for his signature. Simple as that.
 

Borys

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He has a tendency of pushing players down when chasing them, I don't understand why he thinks he can get away with that. Silly fouls. Other than that, I think he did OK.
 

Idxomer

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No one yesterday put a top performance.

McTominay was quite average which is an improvement on what we've seen lately from him.
 
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Oranges038

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He has a tendency of pushing players down when chasing them, I don't understand why he thinks he can get away with that. Silly fouls. Other than that, I think he did OK.

Noticed this too, its almost like he tackles with his hands.

For what it's worth, I actually think he'd be a better centre back than midfielder.
 

OrcaFat

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Noticed this too, its almost like he tackles with his hands.

For what it's worth, I actually think he'd be a better centre back than midfielder.
If playing as CB will he stop pushing and giving away fouls? If so easy he should stop now, while playing midfield!

But anyway, he won’t become a top CB while playing for us as he won’t be selected to play there very often.

With more experience he could become a top midfielder but, on balance of evidence, I think he is always going to be a notch below what we need. Still, any improvement would be welcome. His best performances have been pretty acceptable so there’s always hope.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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He's not going to be a Scholes type midfielder ever, so using that as a bench mark is harsh.

His qualities are:
- Great tackling
- Great work rate
- Great finishing around the box
- Can drive with the ball

His weaknesses are:
- Passing

Of course lacking higher tier passing as a midfielder is crux, but he has enough other qualities to be a good long term player for us. I'm hopefully he'll add to his passing as he matures as he's still young.
I wouldn't say his tackling is great. His tackling is decent, because he gave lot of fouls away. Great tackling is Ndidi or Kante, great tackling should be lot of successful tackles. His passing is decent depends on how you look at it, he can make long diagonal ball but when it's simple pass or through ball, he seems to fail to do it.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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He needs to score more headers. With his height and aggressiveness and combined with Bruno, Telles & Shaw (improved) set piece takers, he has the potential to score 3-5 league goals per season from heading alone.
 

Isotope

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Somehow, he reminds me of Tacchinardi of that great Juventus side. When playing, he's just there to make up XI players on the team.

Is it a good comparison, @devilish ?
 

jem

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Typical toxic scumbags you find lurking over here..
That Rants clown is a cringeworthy joke. I don’t mind Saeed, but he does himself no favours associating with such a click-merchant (I hate using the ‘merchant’ bit, but so applicable here.)
 

jem

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Would Barcelona, Real, Mancity ever consider having a player like that? You know your answer. Same way Fellaini was not a good fit for us, neither is Scott. Right now he's where he is because he played so many games due to timing when he was available and his manager Mourinho being a fan, so he will naturally get better but imagine giving that game time to a more talented player.

If McTominay wasn't Scottish he wouldn't get as much gametime and neither would even midtable clubs ask for his signature. Simple as that.
I find this whole ‘would City or Liverpool have him’ argument so tiring. Just several years ago, Fabian Delph found himself playing regularly for City. All clubs need squad players who play a role. I don’t think McTominay should be starting regularly, but I love having him in the squad.
 

romufc

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Yeah I don't get the criticism for Scott either. I like him a lot. He is very dynamic and he tries to be adventurous with his passing, even though his execution isn't always there. I don't fault a player for trying a forward pass. Better than sitting deep and passing it sideways all the time.

Most importantly, he plays for the club and not himself. Those type of players are incredibly hard to find these days.
He will miss 2 passes in a game and everyone will remember that.

Bruno / Pogba / Martial will miss those same passes but will say "he is taking risks" so they can lose the ball.

There is a real agenda against some players in this team. You cannot keep buying talent into a squad that needs some backbone. Its funny because alot of people say the team needs leaders, Scott is one of them, but they will say he isn't good enough player.

Look at the impact Henderson has at Liverpool, not the most talented player but he allows the rest of the team to do what they need to. Scott has been improving and as long as he does, he will be useful to us.
 

romufc

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Would Barcelona, Real, Mancity ever consider having a player like that? You know your answer. Same way Fellaini was not a good fit for us, neither is Scott. Right now he's where he is because he played so many games due to timing when he was available and his manager Mourinho being a fan, so he will naturally get better but imagine giving that game time to a more talented player.

If McTominay wasn't Scottish he wouldn't get as much gametime and neither would even midtable clubs ask for his signature. Simple as that.

Looks like you have found yourself a choice of teams to support there.

You can talk about would x player ever get into y squad, but forget the principles Manutd is built on.

The Parks, Fletcher, Oshea type of players have all done well at this club.

Do you we would play Zinchenko as our LB?
Do you think Manutd will have a sergi Roberto at RB?
 

Superden

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not just henderson, you can add milner, wijnaldum, keita to that list, all midfielders that some on here would rant about for not being the second coming of pirlo with their footballing ability. and yet theyve played key roles in midfield for the most successful team in the world arguably over the last few seasons.
 

Poborsky's hair

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I find this whole ‘would City or Liverpool have him’ argument so tiring. Just several years ago, Fabian Delph found himself playing regularly for City. All clubs need squad players who play a role. I don’t think McTominay should be starting regularly, but I love having him in the squad.
regularly yeah? how many games he played there and where is he playing now? please tell me:-) I keep seeing some comparisons with Fletcher, that is tiring. Fletcher covered more ground, had much superior passing ability spend a lot of time in two-men midfield with slowish Carrick. I understand the concept of squad. If you didn´t notice our b-team is a too huge drop of quality, if you can´t see that we will disagree. Scott is a lucky boy with immense dedication which got him his reward to be in the first team. He´s not exactly a player to be first in the line to sell since there are worse but we should be ready not to feel any sentiment when upgrading our first team palyers and squad palyers as well - that´s all.
 

romufc

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regularly yeah? how many games he played there and where is he playing now? please tell me:-) I keep seeing some comparisons with Fletcher, that is tiring. Fletcher covered more ground, had much superior passing ability spend a lot of time in two-men midfield with slowish Carrick. I understand the concept of squad. If you didn´t notice our b-team is a too huge drop of quality, if you can´t see that we will disagree. Scott is a lucky boy with immense dedication which got him his reward to be in the first team. He´s not exactly a player to be first in the line to sell since there are worse but we should be ready not to feel any sentiment when upgrading our first team palyers and squad palyers as well - that´s all.
Yes, regularly. Other than the times when he was injured, he was playing very regularly.

15/16 - 27 appearances - played most games when fit, missed games due to injury
16/17 - 13 appearances - missed 1/2 the season injured
17/18 - 29 appearances - missed 10 weeks injured.

Now, I have shown you stats that prove he played regularly, why dont you show us that Fletcher covered more ground than McTominay?

If only luck and dedication can get you into a PL team, it requires talent too.

Can he be upgraded? yes, but don't disrespect players saying they are lucky. These players put in hard work in the academy to be able to force themselves into the first team. To call them lucky is just silly.
 

Poborsky's hair

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Looks like you have found yourself a choice of teams to support there.

You can talk about would x player ever get into y squad, but forget the principles Manutd is built on.

The Parks, Fletcher, Oshea type of players have all done well at this club.

Do you we would play Zinchenko as our LB?
Do you think Manutd will have a sergi Roberto at RB?
O Shea was a defender and yeah did his job even in the goal hell, Park and Fletcher much better technical abilities while way more dynamic players. That lazy comparison with Fletcher is tiring. Yes we know they are both Scottish! I am not replacing McT just now and I understand what squad player means, but he´s getting too many crucial starts for us (and good for him!) I think ideally a player of his level should be used as more of a fringe player, however we are rebuilding and players like him will inevitably get some gametime. Ideally we will replace him with a better squad player when the time comes.

And he miss two mpasses andeveryone talks about it.. please do me a favour and rewatch a game against Aston Villa. He misplaced almost every pass even the most basic passes. I wouldn´t mind if he was an expansive passer in advanced positions like you mention with Bruno. But he´s not, can´t do the basics sometimes. Ideally a palyer of his technical ability could play as a CB but as a CM he´sliability. You can see some frustration with other players around him when he can´t make an easy pass between the lines or just lose the ball with an easy transition pass. That is frustrating to watch and not that he´s exactly class defensively, being on his heels or too slow to react, outof position. He was given ennough gametime to improve in that department and can´t see that either...
 

Stack

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red_de_pologne

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not just henderson, you can add milner, wijnaldum, keita to that list, all midfielders that some on here would rant about for not being the second coming of pirlo with their footballing ability. and yet theyve played key roles in midfield for the most successful team in the world arguably over the last few seasons.
Does he actually play an important role for Pool? Thought he's gone missing in that team.
 

romufc

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O Shea was a defender and yeah did his job even in the goal hell, Park and Fletcher much better technical abilities while way more dynamic players. That lazy comparison with Fletcher is tiring. Yes we know they are both Scottish! I am not replacing McT just now and I understand what squad player means, but he´s getting too many crucial starts for us (and good for him!) I think ideally a player of his level should be used as more of a fringe player, however we are rebuilding and players like him will inevitably get some gametime. Ideally we will replace him with a better squad player when the time comes.

And he miss two mpasses andeveryone talks about it.. please do me a favour and rewatch a game against Aston Villa. He misplaced almost every pass even the most basic passes. I wouldn´t mind if he was an expansive passer in advanced positions like you mention with Bruno. But he´s not, can´t do the basics sometimes. Ideally a palyer of his technical ability could play as a CB but as a CM he´sliability. You can see some frustration with other players around him when he can´t make an easy pass between the lines or just lose the ball with an easy transition pass. That is frustrating to watch and not that he´s exactly class defensively, being on his heels or too slow to react, outof position. He was given ennough gametime to improve in that department and can´t see that either...
Please do me a favour and watch it yourself before making such comments. He misplaced every pass? I agree it wasn't his best game but 70 % passing is not great but its not losing the ball every time.

Against City - 97% passing and Bruno was 73% - don't see you saying he lost the ball every time he got it.

Against Leicester- 91% passing and Bruno was 70% and Fred 76% and Pogba 60%

Against Leeds - 86% passing accuracy.

Against City (league) - 88% passing accuracy.

Please stop picking a players bad game as it being a representation of him as a player. Stop with the agendas.
 

Idxomer

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He does misplace a lot when he gets on the ball like any midfielder should, mostly his problem is he doesn't show for the ball and hide between players.
 

Poborsky's hair

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Yes, regularly. Other than the times when he was injured, he was playing very regularly.

15/16 - 27 appearances - played most games when fit, missed games due to injury
16/17 - 13 appearances - missed 1/2 the season injured
17/18 - 29 appearances - missed 10 weeks injured.

Now, I have shown you stats that prove he played regularly, why dont you show us that Fletcher covered more ground than McTominay?

If only luck and dedication can get you into a PL team, it requires talent too.

Can he be upgraded? yes, but don't disrespect players saying they are lucky. These players put in hard work in the academy to be able to force themselves into the first team. To call them lucky is just silly.
Ant then they got rid, that´s the point.. also Delph was a star player for Villa. Genuinelly looked one of the best midfielders in the league from the bottom teams hence City went for him. I struggle to see McTominay having such impact in any of those teams.

To the bold part, I won´t show it since it would be hard to find but we all remeber he was one of the best defensive minded B2b in the world in his short peak playing in two men midfield with Carrick who is exactly not a runner. Also km covered is not exactly the most precise metrics. Scott is very hardworking but it´s about the acceleration and covering the first few meters, Fletcher was a great athlete in that sense and I think we just seem to rate player how much they run but never look what runs they make and whihc positions he fills. Matic can cover quite some ground toobut we all know how awful he can be in his first few meters..
 

GoldTrafford99

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When you watch the likes of Gundogan and Thiago play in central midfield then you come to watch Mctominay play, you’ll understand why we are taking forever to be great again.

This is the kinda thing you'd say when you know absolutely nothing about football.`

I remember the EXACT same criticism aimed at players like Michael Carrick and Darren Fletcher when they started in our first team. It took United fans until Carrick was in his final two seasons to go 'oh yeah - he is a good footballer after all'. And I genuinely don't think Fletcher got any praise from the majority of United fans until he was finished playing.

When a footballer's job is to do all of his work OFF THE BALL - which is the job of a deep-lying midfielder like Michael Carrick, Darren Fletcher, Jordan Henderson etc - then folk who only look at the ball when watching a game of football, simply won't see all the good that is done by these type of players.
 
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MadDogg

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This is the kinda thing you'd say when you know absolutely nothing about football.`

I remember the EXACT same criticism aimed at players like Michael Carrick and Darren Fletcher when they started in our first team. It took United fans until Carrick was in his final two seasons to go 'oh yeah - he is a good footballer after all'. And I genuinely don't think Fletcher got any praise from the majority of United fans until he was finished playing.

When a footballer's job is to do all of his work OFF THE BALL - which is the job of a deep-lying midfielder like Michael Carrick, Darren Fletcher, Jordan Henderson etc - then folk who only look at the ball when watching a game of football, simply won't see all the good that is done by these type of players.
The problem is that even Fletcher and Henderson are significantly better on the ball than McTominay is, let alone Carrick who blows all of them out of the water. Even defensive midfielders need to be good enough on the ball that it isn't an actual weakness. I will say that McTominay has had moments where he's shown enough ability on the ball (I remember being very pleasantly surprised in the early part of last season) but his average game simply isn't good enough. Maybe he can still develop further and I do hope that happens, but he's not that young anymore. He's currently the same age as Fletcher was when he became a key part of our team.

His normal midfield partner in Fred is just about the minimum of what we should be looking for in ability when on the ball. McTominay is quite a bit below that.
 

Stacks

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He's not going to be a Scholes type midfielder ever, so using that as a bench mark is harsh.

His qualities are:
- Great tackling
- Great work rate
- Great finishing around the box
- Can drive with the ball


His weaknesses are:
- Passing

Of course lacking higher tier passing as a midfielder is crux, but he has enough other qualities to be a good long term player for us. I'm hopefully he'll add to his passing as he matures as he's still young.
You are describing like he is Arturo Vidal (prime) and he is not on the same stratosphere
 

romufc

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This is the kinda thing you'd say when you know absolutely nothing about football.`

I remember the EXACT same criticism aimed at players like Michael Carrick and Darren Fletcher when they started in our first team. It took United fans until Carrick was in his final two seasons to go 'oh yeah - he is a good footballer after all'. And I genuinely don't think Fletcher got any praise from the majority of United fans until he was finished playing.

When a footballer's job is to do all of his work OFF THE BALL - which is the job of a deep-lying midfielder like Michael Carrick, Darren Fletcher, Jordan Henderson etc - then folk who only look at the ball when watching a game of football, simply won't see all the good that is done by these type of players.
Exactly this.

Carrick was never rated this highly during his playing days, only recently after watching european CDM's do that role do fans appreciate what he did.

Fletcher was never rated by any Manutd fan. Fans who say Fletcher was x,y,z but McTominay isnt. He is 23 playing in a team that is not really winning, whereas the other two played in a well oiled team winning titles, getting into semis of CL.

There is a reason Jose played McTominay and Ole keeps doing so, even if you think Ole is a PE teacher, he has realised Bruno needs to play, Pogba needs to be accommodated, he needs to protect his CB's.
 

GoldTrafford99

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The problem is that even Fletcher and Henderson are significantly better on the ball than McTominay is, let alone Carrick who blows all of them out of the water. Even defensive midfielders need to be good enough on the ball that it isn't an actual weakness. I will say that McTominay has had moments where he's shown enough ability on the ball (I remember being very pleasantly surprised in the early part of last season) but his average game simply isn't good enough. Maybe he can still develop further and I do hope that happens, but he's not that young anymore. He's currently the same age as Fletcher was when he became a key part of our team.

His normal midfield partner in Fred is just about the minimum of what we should be looking for in ability when on the ball. McTominay is quite a bit below that.

They are the exact same things folk round here used to say about Carrick. And Fletcher. And Liverpool fans used to hound Jordan Henderson for his limited passing.

I remember having a stand-up row with a guy once who tried to tell me Fletcher was an awful player for the level he was playing at... It was, of course, an argument I couldn't lose. All I had to say was 'you may think he's shite, mate, but I know a guy called AlexFerguson who said he would play in him every big game if he was manager of Manchester United.'

EXACT same can be said for McT now.

CAF LOGIC

Scott McTominay, lauded by Jose Mourinho and Ole Solskjaer; an academy graduate who has captained both Manchester United and his national team of Scotland.

Guy on Red Cafe: His passing's a bit shit, mate.
 

UncleBob

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This is the kinda thing you'd say when you know absolutely nothing about football.`

I remember the EXACT same criticism aimed at players like Michael Carrick and Darren Fletcher when they started in our first team. It took United fans until Carrick was in his final two seasons to go 'oh yeah - he is a good footballer after all'. And I genuinely don't think Fletcher got any praise from the majority of United fans until he was finished playing.

When a footballer's job is to do all of his work OFF THE BALL - which is the job of a deep-lying midfielder like Michael Carrick, Darren Fletcher, Jordan Henderson etc - then folk who only look at the ball when watching a game of football, simply won't see all the good that is done by these type of players.
Exactly this.

Carrick was never rated this highly during his playing days, only recently after watching european CDM's do that role do fans appreciate what he did.

Fletcher was never rated by any Manutd fan. Fans who say Fletcher was x,y,z but McTominay isnt. He is 23 playing in a team that is not really winning, whereas the other two played in a well oiled team winning titles, getting into semis of CL.

There is a reason Jose played McTominay and Ole keeps doing so, even if you think Ole is a PE teacher, he has realised Bruno needs to play, Pogba needs to be accommodated, he needs to protect his CB's.
I have no idea, whatsoever, what you two are on about.

Carrick was highly appreciated at United in his first years, it wasn't until after the first CL final against Barcelona that he hit a brick wall and suffered mentally, took him quite some time to sort himself out, during which he got a lot of stick for not being decisive enough and for pulling out of duels. His ability to pass the ball was never in question

Fletcher was extremely promising in his youth days, got a nasty injury that set him back, then he was being eased into the first team on the right wing side where Fergie kept changing between him and Ronaldo...Polar opposite players, meant that he got a lot of stick in his early days, completely changed in the 08/09 season and onwards. He was a fecking beast in 09/10, turned into a universally loved player and his passing sure as shit wasn't in question either.

Neither of them just walked into well oiled teams winning titles and getting into semis. We had gone 3 seasons without winning the title, and Chelsea under Mourinho looked like they were going to dominate for some time, our midfield was suffering from the void after Roy Keane while our attempts at replacing him were disasters. Ruud was sodded off, Beckham... Most commentators were on about how it was the end of Fergies reign at United, that he was past it and United would be wise to bring in someone else. No idea how it's even remotely possible to reach the conclusion that this was an easy environment for either players to walk into.

McTominay needs to be quicker on the ball..He doesn't have to have the passing skills of Michael Carrick, all he needs to do is combine his agression with the ability to keep things simple. Win the ball back, if there's space then go forward with it and if you're crowded then just make a simple pass to someone else.
 

lRed

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We need Scotty and Fredo to form the partnership they are so comfortable with.
This match is one of the most important, the most important game since the begenning without a doubt after Leipzig away.

If that double pivot plays sunday I don't know if Pogba will play but that's a tough one for Ole there.
 

amolbhatia50k

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Mctominay has much to prove before being compared to Fletcher and especially Carrick. For one, his passing is terrible whereas theirs was good (Carrick's was really good).
 

Aouer-United

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Please not play him in diamonds midfield against Liverpool. I'm sick of him. Matic should play as holding midfielders with Fred as a box to box ball-winning behind Pogba and Bruno.