[#07]

McTominay is like a poundshop Frank Lampard. His best work is done arriving late into the box, making third man runs, with limited responsibility for defending or playmaking.

He should not be deep in midfield where you need him to show for the ball and set the tempo of our passing.

The fact he's having to play that role, again, calls into question our recruitment: Why did we buy Mount? Another attacking midfielder. When we badly needed a proper central midfielder, who could add pace, physicality and passing to our midfield.

 

[jderbyshire]

Ten Hag got this wrong last night.

Should have taken McTominay off at 3-1 rather than Amrabat.

How can we expect to control a game with a guy who struggles to control a ball?

 

[Ayrlad39]

Scotland has him taking corners. Interesting!

I'm Scottish and I don't understand why he is taking the corners

 

[Ayrlad39]

Its funny how top managers have all stuck by Scott McTominay, yet fans say otherwise.

Is he elegant? No, but he gets the job done. Definitely worthy of a squad place, in my opinion, and I believe he'd have been a useful squad player under Sir Alex, and that's nothing to do with the fact that he's Scottish.

Funnily enough, since he's come back into the team, we've been better. Is that solely down to him? Of course not, but as I said before, he's a player who steps up when needed.

Agreed, that's 5 different managers who seem to rate him

 

[Diamond Chap]

I think a few would TBH.

Shaw
Mainoo
Garnacho
Bruno
Hojland ( providing his upward trajectory continues )

Maybe not starters but 100% they would be competing.

The rest I think would struggle starting for West Ham and Brighton.

Shaw is unavailable for long spells.
Good player though.
Mainoo, Garnacho in their infancy, and nowhere.near City level.
They haven't played enough games yet and are still being 'nurtured'.
Bruno would get the odd appearance, but is inconsistent and can be careless, which Pepe doesn't like.
Hojiland, Pepe might see enough potential to coach him, and use him as a squad player.

 

[Chaky_Best]

Ten Hag's obession with Mc Tominay begins to depress me.

I get the point that Eriksen, Casemiro and Mount are injured, so he doesn't really has the choice BUT playing him as his second striker is an absolute joke.

I understand that in terms of balance, it's good to have a big boy like him fighting for second ball but he doesn't wins these balls and is pointless tactically.

Yesterday he went deep to create space, but Onana played the ball to him, started to panic, had an ugly control and made an horrible pass to Maguire.

The guy hides during the construction phase and just want to get the ball in the box.

He's our second striker. It's not on him, it's Ten Hag.

I am sorry but if he plays in the same way at Anfield we'll get trashed 10-0 for sure.

 

[Rozay]

Was watching in the first half and remember thinking to myself ‘this only works if this is one of those games where he gets a goal’. Which he did. And it’s clear that this is the only reason Ten Hag plays him. He could pop up with a goal, and we need those. It is at the detriment of the team’s play of course. He totally vacates the midfield area for the most part, and Bruno isn’t too dissimilar, although I feel even he is playing deeper than Scott now. We can’t sacrifice a man from the actual midfield simply out of hope that Scott may just grab a goal every game.

https://x.com/privilege_mufc/status/1730115131047026808?s=46&t=5KQRH--dSKLb81GORZAA_Q

 

[Idxomer]

People rightly criticize him for the pass he didn't make for Martial in the 2nd half. He also failed to make any use of a really good position before their first goal. He decided to cross the ball which was the worst option he could make, his cross was also horrible. He then in a usual manner was nowhere near the defence or midfield during the counterattack. Both Garnacho and Bruno were well deep in our half before he made an appearance near the half-line.

 

[MadDogg]

Agreed, that's 5 different managers who seem to rate him

Ole is really our only manager who consistently chose him over a good period of time.

He barely played under Mourinho.
He played a lot for Ole.
He played a lot for Rangnick but there were basically no other options available.
ETH tried to sell him and only plays him when others are injured.

We're having a short period at the moment where Scott is being picked due to him actually being a decent goal threat at a time our attackers are struggling, combined with quite a lot of injuries. I doubt it lasts too long and expect we'll try to sell him again at the end of the season.

 

[ForeverRed1]

He’s just not involved enough in general play. If you have Bruno as a number 8 (who loses the ball a fair bit but is worth the risk because he’s so good and our main creater) then you have to have a midfield general in there with him to negate that risk. Mctominay gets strolled through or disappears. It makes us too easy. Scores sometimes and has moments but generally he’s just not where he should be enough.

Onana of Everton would be the type of player that would compliment Bruno very well.

 

[Jingaling7]

had to make an account on here as I enjoy seeing different fans opinions on players, but I'm sorry this lad isn't and has never been good enough to justify over 200 games for this club.

how can any professional football go missing for the amount of time he does absolutely baffles me, did anyone see when he received a throw in and ended up juggling it out of play ? or when Mainoo played the ball into him and he just ballooned it up into the centre circle.. he cannot play out from the back, he consistently fouls players, he doesn't have the vision for a pass ( as seen when he thought he was Gerrard later in the game and decided to shoot )

Just seriously starting to question the manager, the gaps he left yesterday were inexcusable and at 3-1 up he should've been took off and we should've shut the shop up..

if the manager continues to play him we will get absolutely cooked over the next few weeks with big games coming up

 

[Beachryan]

He's not a midfielder. Can't pass, poor touch, no vision and can't defend.

He has good instincts in the box, and has a decent shot.

If we have to play him, it should only be as a second striker. Which means you have to take off a forward for him. Or Bruno.

 

[Stobzilla]

Marouane McTominay.

 

[Oranges038]

People rightly criticize him for the pass he didn't make for Martial in the 2nd half. He also failed to make any use of a really good position before their first goal. He decided to cross the ball which was the worst option he could make, his cross was also horrible. He then in a usual manner was nowhere near the defence or midfield during the counterattack. Both Garnacho and Bruno were well deep in our half before he made an appearance near the half-line.

Should be criticised for the pass he didn't make to Bruno that led to their first goal, the one that led to Bruno chasing back 60 yards and giving away athe free kick.

 

[Zumbi]

What the feck! This is a guy who gives 100% every time he plays. He doesn’t moan or hide he’s always available and yet we fans seem to hate him. I don’t understand it. Him, Maguire, AWB - we all wanted them out. Look where the De Gea hate got us - a poor man’s barthez !
The squad is a shambles ETH has to take some of the blame. But there’s a lot of blame to go round. Scott is not the problem. He’s better than mount for a fuxkin start. I’ll fight anyone who says different!

One of the main criticisms of him is that he always hides from the ball and doesn't make himself available for passes. Which is one of the main reasons we can't exert any control in the midfield.

 

[Zumbi]

Agreed, that's 5 different managers who seem to rate him

Most of whom who are no longer here because they weren't deemed good enough. The fifth is currently under fire because we're not very good. How on earth is that a good justification for him playing?

 

[Hughes35]

McTominay is like a poundshop Frank Lampard. His best work is done arriving late into the box, making third man runs, with limited responsibility for defending or playmaking.

He should not be deep in midfield where you need him to show for the ball and set the tempo of our passing.

The fact he's having to play that role, again, calls into question our recruitment: Why did we buy Mount? Another attacking midfielder. When we badly needed a proper central midfielder, who could add pace, physicality and passing to our midfield.

I was literally coming on to post the sane about the cheap Frank Lampard. He's a Kevin Nolan regen. Good player, will score goals but can't run a midfield or be a starter at CM for a top team. Great squad / bench player or a good starter for mid table teams.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

His job and skill set have NEVER been to control midfield. He has always been employed for his physicality, ball winning and ball carrying. By every manager who has employed him. Even ETH currently doesn't use him in the build up tactically. Yet it does'nt stop people in here. The way folks constantly moan that "he can't control games" or "show for the ball" is classic case of insisting on judging a fish on tree climbing. Not on what it is actually capable of doing

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

What we saw from McTominay yesterday is what ten Hag bought Mount for. Unfortunately, we've yet to see that from Mount, but I think the introduction of Mainoo, who is much more in the mold of a deep-lying playmaker when compared to Casemiro, has allowed McTominay to play further up.

 

[Hackman2210]

Frank lampard couldn’t run a midfield either!
Scott is not a Tikky takka midfielder. He’s a Darren fletcher type - lots of running lots of tackling and decent amount of goals. He’s limited but so is erikson - he’s got no legs!!
Take all sorts to make a midfield tick

 

[Hackman2210]

His job and skill set have NEVER been to control midfield. He has always been employed for his physicality, ball winning and ball carrying. By every manager who has employed him. Even ETH currently doesn't use him in the build up tactically. Yet it does'nt stop people in here. The way folks constantly moan that "he can't control games" or "show for the ball" is classic case of insisting on judging a fish on tree climbing. Not on what it is actually capable of doing

Exactly - it’s like say Erikson is shit cause he can’t run about. Horses for courses init?

 

[#07]

His job and skill set have NEVER been to control midfield. He has always been employed for his physicality, ball winning and ball carrying. By every manager who has employed him. Even ETH currently doesn't use him in the build up tactically. Yet it does'nt stop people in here. The way folks constantly moan that "he can't control games" or "show for the ball" is classic case of insisting on judging a fish on tree climbing. Not on what it is actually capable of doing

Nobody expects him to control midfield. That's partly the complaint. He's playing as the second man in midfield, when all his strengths are geared towards playing as the third man.

In terms of ball winning and ball carrying, we didn't really see much of that tonight and haven't really seen much of it this season. According to FBREF McTominay's in the 62nd percentile for tackles, 30th percentile for interceptions and 74th percentile for blocks. By comparison Yves Bissouma is in the 90th percentile for tackles, 84th percentile for interceptions and 53rd percentile for blocks. If he's been all action its not really been on display.

Frank lampard couldn’t run a midfield either!
Scott is not a Tikky takka midfielder. He’s a Darren fletcher type - lots of running lots of tackling and decent amount of goals. He’s limited but so is erikson - he’s got no legs!!
Take all sorts to make a midfield tick

When you have Makelele and Essien behind you, like Lampard did, it doesn't matter. Although Lampard's all around game was far better than McTominay's.

By the same token, McTominay is not a Darren Fletcher type. Fletcher was far more capable with the ball at his feet and his short and long passing was miles ahead of McTominay's. There were plenty of games in 2009-10 when Fletcher literally dragged us through matches where everyone else was awful. I can't remember a single time McTominay has been anywhere near as good as Fletcher was in both legs of the Champions League last 16 against Milan in 2009-10.

@Hughes35 is right to liken him to Kevin Nolan. Although I actually think Kevin Nolan was happier showing for the ball and moving it through the thirds.

Exactly - it’s like say Erikson is shit cause he can’t run about. Horses for courses init?

Eriksen is another third man masquerading as a playmaker. For Denmark he plays with two more defensive minded midfielders. Only for United, as a result of our ridiculous recruitment policy, is he expected to play deep in midfield.

We've been doing this since we bought Fellaini. Buy a player who's better going forward than defending, play them in a box-to-box role and wonder why the midfield always looks empty.

The issue is not actually McTominay's limits as a player. Its playing him in a role that magnifies all those limits and hinders the rest of the team as a result. It genuinely pained me late on when Mainoo retained the ball under real pressure on our left, looked inside for the square ball and had to go back because we had no #8. McTominay simply doesn't take up those positions. To some extent, I don't blame him for not doing so. Its not his natural game. But when Ten Hag keeps picking him to cover that ground its hard not to point that out.

 

[Zumbi]

His job and skill set have NEVER been to control midfield. He has always been employed for his physicality, ball winning and ball carrying. By every manager who has employed him. Even ETH currently doesn't use him in the build up tactically. Yet it does'nt stop people in here. The way folks constantly moan that "he can't control games" or "show for the ball" is classic case of insisting on judging a fish on tree climbing. Not on what it is actually capable of doing

But he's not even a top player at those things. He adds some height for set pieces and goes through the odd patch of scoring a couple goals from midfield but generally speaking he's a limited player, both with and without the ball. Surely we should be aiming for more? Any question for which McTominay is the answer is the wrong kind of question for a club that's seeking to get back to the top.

 

[Zumbi]

Nobody expects him to control midfield. That's partly the complaint. He's playing as the second man in midfield, when all his strengths are geared towards playing as the third man.

In terms of ball winning and ball carrying, we didn't really see much of that tonight and haven't really seen much of it this season. According to FBREF McTominay's in the 62nd percentile for tackles, 30th percentile for interceptions and 74th percentile for blocks. By comparison Yves Bissouma is in the 90th percentile for tackles, 84th percentile for interceptions and 53rd percentile for blocks. If he's been all action its not really been on display.



When you have Makelele and Essien behind you, like Lampard did, it doesn't matter. Although Lampard's all around game was far better than McTominay's.

By the same token, McTominay is not a Darren Fletcher type. Fletcher was far more capable with the ball at his feet and his short and long passing was miles ahead of McTominay's. There were plenty of games in 2009-10 when Fletcher literally dragged us through matches where everyone else was awful. I can't remember a single time McTominay has been anywhere near as good as Fletcher was in both legs of the Champions League last 16 against Milan in 2009-10.

@Hughes35 is right to liken him to Kevin Nolan. Although I actually think Kevin Nolan was happier showing for the ball and moving it through the thirds.



Eriksen is another third man masquerading as a playmaker. For Denmark he plays with two more defensive minded midfielders. Only for United, as a result of our ridiculous recruitment policy, is he expected to play deep in midfield.

We've been doing this since we bought Fellaini. Buy a player who's better going forward than defending, play them in a box-to-box role and wonder why the midfield always looks empty.

The issue is not actually McTominay's limits as a player. Its playing him in a role that magnifies all those limits and hinders the rest of the team as a result. It genuinely pained me late on when Mainoo retained the ball under real pressure on our left, looked inside for the square ball and had to go back because we had no #8. McTominay simply doesn't take up those positions. To some extent, I don't blame him for not doing so. Its not his natural game. But when Ten Hag keeps picking him to cover that ground its hard not to point that out.

Very well said, can't disagree with any of this.

 

[MadDogg]

His job and skill set have NEVER been to control midfield. He has always been employed for his physicality, ball winning and ball carrying. By every manager who has employed him. Even ETH currently doesn't use him in the build up tactically. Yet it does'nt stop people in here. The way folks constantly moan that "he can't control games" or "show for the ball" is classic case of insisting on judging a fish on tree climbing. Not on what it is actually capable of doing

Midfielders who are in there mostly for their physicality, ball winning (which he's not actually particularly good at) and ball carrying still need to do their part to help the midfield function and control things. They don't have to be the main man making those things happen, but they can't be a complete non-entity which Scott is far too often.

It is literally impossible to have a balanced and well functioning midfield when one player is as limited at so many of the absolute basics of midfield play as McTominay is. Every player in there needs to be solid at the basics, and then the different players can have different strengths that worth together.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Midfielders who are in there mostly for their physicality, ball winning (which he's not actually particularly good at) and ball carrying still need to do their part to help the midfield function and control things. They don't have to be the main man making those things happen, but they can't be a complete non-entity which Scott is far too often.

It is literally impossible to have a balanced and well functioning midfield when one player is as limited at so many of the absolute basics of midfield play as McTominay is. Every player in there needs to be solid at the basics, and then the different players can have different strengths that worth together.

This isn't completly accurrate at all though.

In a 4-3-3 for example you don't need all 3 midfielders to be involved in build up to control midfield. Just the deepest and one of the side midfielders. Mourinho set up like that for years first at Porto then at Chelsea

Even in a 4-3-1-2 that Ancelotti famously employed a Milan. You can play one elite deep lying controller flanked by two dedicated ball carrying destroyers either side with a number 10 or two just ahead. You'd control it just the same. Milan proved this for years with Gatusso and Ambrosini flanking an elite deep playmaker like Pirlo

The 4-2-3-1 which we play is no different:

Mctominay is absolutely NOT needed to control midfield. Control can also be established by the starting DM, one of our fullbacks becoming a second pivot player and Bruno. Right now United's true issue is our utter absense of a player who can consistently run a game from deep in Casemiro and Mainoo's absence on pitch, who doesn't become an utter defensive liability in defensive transitions. Tactically it's blatantly obvious when we start Mctominay we purposely don't involve him in build up so it makes little sense people keep moaning about it. His brief is clearly to take up dangerous attacking positions, to maximize attacking transitions and to keep involved in the press to win back the ball. Not to start nor be heavily involved in passing sequences. Thus unless he is literally having pass accuracy and completion statistics below 70%, giving the ball away most time he tojches it, the ire directed consistently directed at him is way off side. Bordering on disingenous, even. Peoole literally pretend his strengths don't work with any other midfielders we have and just obssess over his weaknesses, over tactics we don't even employ.


Frankly right now Mctominay is holding that role in the team for Mount. Who when he finally gets fit, will be the one who can offer the passing all Mctominay's detractors crave whilst playing the same role.

 

[Cnaiür urs Skiötha]

I am not an expert but I would assume that at first a manager/club should have an idea how to play. Then look at the squad and see which players already have or could develop fitting attributes. Finally you analyze the market and get a few players in bringing the missing abilities.

We do it the other way round. Try to somehow shoehorn half-decent players in who are at the club and then make some panic buys.
McTominay is a prime example for this.

 

[Borys]

This isn't completly accurrate at all though.

In a 4-3-3 for example you don't need all 3 midfielders to be involved in build up to control midfield. Just the deepest and one of the side midfielders. Mourinho set up like that for years first at Porto then at Chelsea

Even in a 4-3-1-2 that Ancelotti famously employed a Milan. You can play one elite deep lying controller flanked by two dedicated ball carrying destroyers either side with a number 10 or two just ahead. You'd control it just the same. Milan proved this for years with Gatusso and Ambrosini flanking an elite deep playmaker like Pirlo

The 4-2-3-1 which we play is no different:

Mctominay is absolutely NOT needed to control midfield. Control can also be established by the starting DM, one of our fullbacks becoming a second pivot player and Bruno. Right now United's true issue is our utter absense of a player who can consistently run a game from deep in Casemiro and Mainoo's absence on pitch, who doesn't become an utter defensive liability in defensive transitions. Tactically it's blatantly obvious when we start Mctominay we purposely don't involve him in build up so it makes little sense people keep moaning about it. His brief is clearly to take up dangerous attacking positions, to maximize attacking transitions and to keep involved in the press to win back the ball. Not to start nor be heavily involved in passing sequences. Thus unless he is literally having pass accuracy and completion statistics below 70%, giving the ball away most time he tojches it, the ire directed consistently directed at him is way off side. Bordering on disingenous, even. Peoole literally pretend his strengths don't work with any other midfielders we have and just obssess over his weaknesses, over tactics we don't even employ.


Frankly right now Mctominay is holding that role in the team for Mount. Who when he finally gets fit, will be the one who can offer the passing all Mctominay's detractors crave whilst playing the same role.

You are SPOT ON with McTominay role description in that post IMO. Criticising McTominay for standing as high as the striker/forward line is like criticizing Onana for standing in the middle of our own half (the preaseason game when he was lobbed) - he didn't come up with this idea by himself, he's clearly following instructions here. Same instructions that tell him NOT to drop deep and RUN at goal when given an opportunity.

The bolded part is by far the bigger problem with this setup though - Bruno is expected/told to do things that he is not suited to do. It's blatantly obvious what he's good at and bad at, I am astounded that our manager came up with this idea to set up like that, while "the other midfielder" is basically playing a second striker role - be that McTominay or Mount.

If we are going for that setup, Bruno has to move to the most advanced midfielder position while Mount is the one connecting midfield with attack - and we pray he can do that effectively. And then it's ok if Mount occasionally (20%) goes up and Bruno covers for him, but it can't be the other way around that Bruno is pushed to CM role 80% of the time.

 

[Gordon S]

Frank lampard couldn’t run a midfield either!
Scott is not a Tikky takka midfielder. He’s a Darren fletcher type - lots of running lots of tackling and decent amount of goals. He’s limited but so is erikson - he’s got no legs!!
Take all sorts to make a midfield tick

I understand you are not saying he is as good as Darren, but we should be careful to go there at all. Darren was absolute mint up until his problems started. One of our most important players i dare to say and that says a lot with the squad we had at the time.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

You are SPOT ON with McTominay role description in that post IMO. Criticising McTominay for standing as high as the striker/forward line is like criticizing Onana for standing in the middle of our own half (the preaseason game when he was lobbed) - he didn't come up with this idea by himself, he's clearly following instructions here. Same instructions that tell him NOT to drop deep and RUN at goal when given an opportunity.

The bolded part is by far the bigger problem with this setup though - Bruno is expected/told to do things that he is not suited to do. It's blatantly obvious what he's good at and bad at, I am astounded that our manager came up with this idea to set up like that, while "the other midfielder" is basically playing a second striker role - be that McTominay or Mount.

If we are going for that setup, Bruno has to move to the most advanced midfielder position while Mount is the one connecting midfield with attack - and we pray he can do that effectively. And then it's ok if Mount occasionally (20%) goes up and Bruno covers for him, but it can't be the other way around that Bruno is pushed to CM role 80% of the time.

I think that's a cop out, to be honest. ETH isn't operating them with a PS5 controller. McTominay is 26 years old. One of our more experienced players. He should be able to adapt his role and positioning in response to the ebb and flow of the game. The fact he doesn't do this is a big factor in the lack of protection our back four gets when McT plays. There are periods of the game when even our more attacking midfielders need to be more conservative, play a little deeper and focus more on controlling midfield and shutting the opposition down (like, say, when you've just gone 3-1 up in a tricky CL away fixture!) If McT can't or won't play with that sort of in game intelligence then that's a huge problem for our team. And it certainly looks as though that's beyond him, based on what we've seen this season.

 

[Borys]

I think that's a cop out, to be honest. ETH isn't operating them with a PS5 controller. McTominay is 26 years old. One of our more experienced players. He should be able to adapt his role and positioning in response to the ebb and flow of the game. The fact he doesn't do this is a big factor in the lack of protection our back four gets when McT plays. There are periods of the game when even our more attacking midfielders need to be more conservative, play a little deeper and focus more on controlling midfield and shutting the opposition down (like, say, when you've just gone 3-1 up in a tricky CL away fixture!) If McT can't or won't play with that sort of in game intelligence then that's a huge problem for our team. And it certainly looks as though that's beyond him, based on what we've seen this season.

I remember we had that discussion in the past, but I don't agree with this.

There are two separate issues here:
1) There is no doubt about McTominay feeling uncomfortable in possession/build up phase. I don't think we need to go into that.
2) Recently McTominay has been deployed in more attacking role, and I am convinced this is by design. Point 1) might be part of the reason, BUT we have seen Mount in very similar role (not really involved in buildup/defensive game), while Bruno has been playing less attacking/more all-round role all season (apart from when Eriksen plays, because then we have 2 man midfield).

It hurts to me to say it but IMO McTominay has to play deeper so that at the very least he can provide some screening for the back 4 (he's not very good at it, but right now we're too porous), while Bruno HAS to be the most advanced "midfielder" (double quotes because he really isn't a midfielder) of the three.
Then, once Mount is back, he will take McTominay role but the setup remains the same. This IMO is our best hope of making this work.

 

[AnotherLondonManc]

I remember we had that discussion in the past, but I don't agree with this.

There are two separate issues here:
1) There is no doubt about McTominay feeling uncomfortable in possession/build up phase. I don't think we need to go into that.
2) Recently McTominay has been deployed in more attacking role, and I am convinced this is by design. Point 1) might be part of the reason, BUT we have seen Mount in very similar role (not really involved in buildup/defensive game), while Bruno has been playing less attacking/more all-round role all season (apart from when Eriksen plays, because then we have 2 man midfield).

It hurts to me to say it but IMO McTominay has to play deeper so that at the very least he can provide some screening for the back 4 (he's not very good at it, but right now we're too porous), while Bruno HAS to be the most advanced "midfielder" (double quotes because he really isn't a midfielder) of the three.
Then, once Mount is back, he will take McTominay role but the setup remains the same. This IMO is our best hope of making this work.

No doubt, a midfield three of Bruno, Mount and Casemiro/Mainoo would give us the most technical ability in midfield. But even when Mount was available, McTom was still getting picked ahead of him.

I don't get it. McTom clearly has the potential to be a great impact player as he's very capable of getting into scoring positions. But starting? He just can't contribute in the way a United midfielder needs to. I actually think we need to move him further up the field, not deeper. All he's shown is that he can be a nuisance when moved further away from midfield. He doesn't get on the ball, doesn't pass progressively, and doesn't win the ball back. It can't be all about scoring a goal every 4 or 5 games, especially as a holding midfielder.

I really hope ETH makes a change this weekend and starts Mainoo alongside Amrabat. McTom will get his minutes when we inevitably go behind

 

[Borys]

No doubt, a midfield three of Bruno, Mount and Casemiro/Mainoo would give us the most technical ability in midfield. But even when Mount was available, McTom was still getting picked ahead of him.

I don't get it. McTom clearly has the potential to be a great impact player as he's very capable of getting into scoring positions. But starting? He just can't contribute in the way a United midfielder needs to. I actually think we need to move him further up the field, not deeper. All he's shown is that he can be a nuisance when moved further away from midfield. He doesn't get on the ball, doesn't pass progressively, and doesn't win the ball back. It can't be all about scoring a goal every 4 or 5 games, especially as a holding midfielder.

I really hope ETH makes a change this weekend and starts Mainoo alongside Amrabat. McTom will get his minutes when we inevitably go behind

But he is playing in more advanced position already, that is the whole point, he's not performing "midfielder" role anymore.

McTominay has a thing that the ball will fall to his feet + he's a very good finisher. I don't blame ETH for choosing him for that "second striker" role if he's pushing for goals, I blame ETH for completely surrounding on any kind of control in midfield as we play tennis games not football games now.

BTW a few weeks ago I was saying similar things about Mount, he has not been deployed as a midfielder for United, he's always very advanced what IMO is completely wrong as we're struggling with buildup/defensive cover in midfield, and that has been the case since minute 1 of this season.

 

[Jingaling7]

seriously though can someone name me a player thats played over 200 times for the club who is as limited ? i'm genuinely intrigued to see what sort of names have played as many games as him.

 

[Bobski]

But he is playing in more advanced position already, that is the whole point, he's not performing "midfielder" role anymore.

McTominay has a thing that the ball will fall to his feet + he's a very good finisher. I don't blame ETH for choosing him for that "second striker" role if he's pushing for goals, I blame ETH for completely surrounding on any kind of control in midfield as we play tennis games not football games now.

BTW a few weeks ago I was saying similar things about Mount, he has not been deployed as a midfielder for United, he's always very advanced what IMO is completely wrong as we're struggling with buildup/defensive cover in midfield, and that has been the case since minute 1 of this season.

Ten Hag keeps going back to that type of set up. He tried it in pre-season last year, 1 deep midfielder, the other 2 pushed exceedingly high and keeps reverting to it. The signing of Mount was for that very purpose. Most on here questioned the balance of a Cas/Mount/Bruno midfield, even with prime Cas I don't think it works, far too much space to cover defensively and too stretched in possession for this league.

We have never seen McT with this type of role before this season. His issues in possession follow him wherever he goes of course but this vacating the midfield, constant line breaking runs, often starting close to Hojlund, this is a new folly.

If he persists with this midfield insanity it is going to get him the sack.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Nobody expects him to control midfield. That's partly the complaint. He's playing as the second man in midfield, when all his strengths are geared towards playing as the third man.

That's the thing though. Y'all assume he is playing the traditional second man in midfield who is involved in the build up. It's been beyond obvious for months now that is NOT how we set up! Yet folks go on and on pretend that it is!

In terms of ball winning and ball carrying, we didn't really see much of that tonight and haven't really seen much of it this season. According to FBREF McTominay's in the 62nd percentile for tackles, 30th percentile for interceptions and 74th percentile for blocks. By comparison Yves Bissouma is in the 90th percentile for tackles, 84th percentile for interceptions and 53rd percentile for blocks. If he's been all action its not really been on display.

This the point where statistics can't help you. You are yet again comparing chalk and cheese. Bissouma for Spurs is employed as a traditional second man in midfield with a brief to dominate ball winning. United in comparison have been employing this season a vertical very high press. Resulting in amongst the highest PPDA in the league and also different people winning and intercepting balls regularly due to the collective press. It is why for example Casemiro's tackle statistics are down from last season because he and his partner are not the sole focus of ball winning. Plus why when the press is breached, if we make the mistake of bombing both fullbacks on he has gottem isolated trying to shield the defence. Mctominay is heavily involved in this collective pressing and has been more effective at it than an Eriksen.

The issue here is people want to insist on acting like what other players do for other clubs in completely different tactical set ups to ours are grounds to judge our players. Mctominay is just the lattest victim. People do it with our fullbacks, both our center midfield postions and even Bruno's role in the team.

 

[Sylar]

McTominay is like a poundshop Frank Lampard. His best work is done arriving late into the box, making third man runs, with limited responsibility for defending or playmaking.

I had this thought watching him. He wouldbe a good option for a 433 / 451 that you used to see chelsea have with Lampard there. Deeper is a waste because he doesnt like to get on the ball.
We normally see goals per minutes. Id love to know his goals per touches stat, given he averages like 15 or something ridiculously low per game.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

I was literally coming on to post the sane about the cheap Frank Lampard. He's a Kevin Nolan regen. Good player, will score goals but can't run a midfield or be a starter at CM for a top team. Great squad / bench player or a good starter for mid table teams.

But he’s not a good squad player. Good squad players are those that can fit into how your first XI plays and brings similar qualities but at a lower level. He’s a completely different style of player that brings no real quality into a top level aspiring midfield. Being able to pop up in the box from midfield and being a good finisher is so far down the list of what you need as a higher quality side looking to play modern football and control games.

Players in which you have to completely alter tactics or aren’t good squad players.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

I had this thought watching him. He wouldbe a good option for a 433 / 451 that you used to see chelsea have with Lampard there. Deeper is a waste because he doesnt like to get on the ball.
We normally see goals per minutes. Id love to know his goals per touches stat, given he averages like 15 or something ridiculously low per game.

Difference is Lampard was also excellent creatively and could thread killer balls. McT might be the worst passer in our entire midfield

 

[Sylar]

Difference is Lampard was also excellent creatively and could thread killer balls. McT might be the worst passer in our entire midfield

Im not arguing, thats why I went with the poundshop version analysis.