They did a conference for other museums where they advocated experimenting when developing temporary exhibitions by just setting up a mock-up of it in a different exhibition space. They don't have any idea about the limited resources most other museums have in comparison to theirs, they are a step away from 'let them eat cake'.
Should artifacts be returned to former colonies?
- Thread starter Adisa
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Possibly one of UNs councils or something.
Yes, the chances of a artifact being safe is much higher in a museum in London is far higher than a similar museum in Jordan or Syria.
Not if they get stolen or destroyed.
They have hundreds of them, it's only one. I can understand if they want it returned, but it's not a crying matter.
Can't tell if you actually believe this or not.
Eh ?
@Colin , how would you feel if you had a lovely chess set that your ancestors built and then Silent Witness came over uninvited, lorded it over you for a couple of hours and left with one of the rooks?
Says something about SW that he ditches the queen for a rook.
Interestingly, there's a new article on the BBC about treasures looted from Africa. I'm not sure about the stuffed man-eating lions, but I can see why the other items are of great value to their countries of origin.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-45406557
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-45406557
all of that stuff should be given back. I believe looting like that these days can result in being court martialled and some time in jail. The government should push to have it returned. Doubt they will though.
@shamans
some more polling, with slightly differently worded questions. Very strong partisan divide, and some age and gender divides.
some more polling, with slightly differently worded questions. Very strong partisan divide, and some age and gender divides.
Us Scots as always coming out alright.@shamans
some more polling, with slightly differently worded questions. Very strong partisan divide, and some age and gender divides.
What's wrong with Jordan? They haven't had any internal warfare I'm aware of
They're a favourite target of whatever jihadi group is flavour of the month, being on such friendly terms with the non Muslim world.
I'd cry like a baby until you gave it back.
Those same artifacts survived hundreds to thousands of years on those countries without European saviors stealing them in order to prevent them.
Only if they're willing to pay for postage and packaging.
I watch Antiques Roadshow here in the US and you often see stuff come up that was clearly looted by American GIs in WW2. Should that stuff be returned?
What's the rules on spoils of war?
What's the rules on spoils of war?
Some of it would practical yes? For instance, I have a Nazi officer's knife that my uncle looted in WW2. There would be no way to return that and I doubt Germany would even want it. I don't even display it or anything its sitting in some box in the garage I haven't seen in years.
But if it was for instance a high quality hereditary Japanese wakizashi then I would put in the effort if I inherited that to try to return it to the original family.
Last edited:
Thanks for the show. I watched one episode on this sculpture that might have been an original Giacometti but even at the end they couldn't truly determine because of some good forgeries of the process. Interesting story, I'll definitely check out a few more
This makes a lot of sense. Great info there. I didn't think about how much technology must help since the 1970s. From the way you describe it I wouldn't be surprised if there were con groups? A really good forger and a couple lesser known "experts" seem like they might be able to get away with selling to some private collections and making a nice little grift on it. I can imagine a good movie plot around it at least
I don’t think there has to be a blanket rule for everything ever removed from its country of origin. But some things should obviously just be given back, and the more clear cut cases shouldn’t be ignored just because of the ones which aren’t, in my opinion.
Yeah, it’s usually how this happens. Usually with the help of an intermediary, who organizes the sell and pays an expert for a fake certificate. It’s obviously very hard to spot that from the outside and to prove a forgery after the deal, as no one (including a new owner) is interested in another expertise and private collections are rarely exposed to the general public.
You mean stealing them in the first place, just like what the Americans did in Iraq thousands of artifacts were stolen by them and being sold in private auctions.
Well if that happened then they are out of luck aren't they.
Perhaps because this isn't a French forum?
Perhaps they can learn from us then?
Wasn't mentioning just this forum
Does anyone really own anything? Everything is borrowed from nature anyway.
I started off taking the piss with that but I think I've instantly persuaded myself.
I started off taking the piss with that but I think I've instantly persuaded myself.
There’s only 5,761 people on Easter Island. Give each of them a free trip to come and see the artifact. They can not only bathe in the glory of their own cultural heritage, but also the thousands of antiquities we’ve stolen from all over the world.
Plus, I bet the fish and chips are way better in London.
Plus, I bet the fish and chips are way better in London.
I guess it depends on how the artifacts were obtained. If they were straight up looted then I don’t see how we have any right to keep them.
If they were solid or legally ceded in treaties of war/a gift etc then it becomes trickier.
If they were solid or legally ceded in treaties of war/a gift etc then it becomes trickier.
You are a man of wisdom.
Yet more wisdom:
If someone stole your pants off the washing line & then 'shared them with the world' in a museum, you'd be pissed off royal an' no mistake, guv.
TL;DR Give the stuff back, twits.
If someone stole your pants off the washing line & then 'shared them with the world' in a museum, you'd be pissed off royal an' no mistake, guv.
TL;DR Give the stuff back, twits.
Thought about your post when I was reading the news. One of the Russian museums decided to do a big exhibition of the works from their collection, mostly focused on Russian avant-garde. Since it was a big event, they decided to invite experts to check their collection and, unsurprisingly, found quite a few fakes. One of them was Malevich — the original work was in museum's collection since the 20's, but turns out it was replaced by a fake in the 70's and the original is now at New York's MoMA... And, by the way, I'm not accusing MoMA of anything — I'm 99% sure that they've bought the work legitimately, but one of its previous owners organised the whole thing.
But I assume you mainly interact with Brits so our bad behavior in colonialism is likely to be more front and center than Belgium's.
On the topic of other colonialists;
France in particular were particular scumbags, and I think they still get colonial tax from former colonies.
It's not just the Brits were who were bad.
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
France in particular were particular scumbags, and I think they still get colonial tax from former colonies.
It's not just the Brits were who were bad.
Yeah, it's not foolproof. There's always the possibility of an inside job, as the sums of money involved are a lot more than most curators will ever earn!
Isn't the Vatican littered with relics and artifacts?
I was there once but the actual museum part was under construction and closed. Apparently there's billions of stuff in there.
I was there once but the actual museum part was under construction and closed. Apparently there's billions of stuff in there.
Last edited:
Yeah, one of them even conducts mass from his window.
The obelisk in St Peter's Square is Egyptian as are quite a few of the obelisks around Rome itself.
You just reminded me of my visit. I was in the square with thousands of people and there were big screens showing the Pope saying mass. Thought it was cool but was wondering where he was (rumors were he was in Argentina at the time). Took me a while to notice no one looking at the screen but towards a tiny window in an non-important looking building considering the Architecture of the neighboring buildings. He was great live though
