Should Jose suffer the same fate....

[OLLY ORANGE]

Let's see the number of changes Jose makes in the summer.
I thought he had to give the majority of the players the benefit of seeing them in the flesh before moving any one out when he first came here. He seems pretty straight and fair with the players.
He would have been called reckless and on a hiding to nothing if he'd had moved eight players out including the club captain and so called star man out all within six weeks of starting.
There is progression even though it's been hard watching. A lot has to do with the type of players he's inherited.
Let's get behind him and take the pressure off him to turn things in the right direction.

 

[wolvored]

Zlatan's not taking a salary this season?

And then some!

 

[Red_Aaron]

I'm still behind him and still have faith we'll be much better next season

I am struggling with the last few weeks though, I totally understand the reasoning but feel bigger clubs need to be more bullish in the face of such circumstances. He's pretty much admitted to giving up on certain fixtures and that just doesn't sit well, it's giving the players an excuse to underperform imo.

There's really no reason we couldn't have performed better against spurs today and especially arsenal who didn't even have to play well to beat us.

He needs to win that final, otherwise there's a lot of poor results in a row that will be put at his door

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

How is publicly chucking the towel in ever going to promote the winning mentality we all crave ? It doesn't matter wether we have injuries or not. Any United player , youth or reserve should be sent on to the pitch with the belief to win.... & that is what Jose was supposed to bring...winning mentality....all Jose , ( & those who think like you ) do is send them out with a ready made excuse to fail.

I think the winning mentality will come from having 2 cups in the cabinet, a big European night and celebration and a CL spot for next season.

That's a winning mentality. Going full on into a bunch of games and risking injury to your most important players is a fools game.

 

[wolvored]

You got to judge what happens over the summer and next season there is no hiding place for Jose. Its got to be top 2 and if we finish 2nd we have to be challenging right to the end imo, as top 4 simply wont do after another fortune spent in the summer.

 

[sunama]

One year might be an aboration but at this point now we have to be worried it's a sign that he is struggling. Especially because throughout this year he has apparently fallen out with some of our brightest talents (Shaw, Martial and Smalling)

Wumminator, Shaw and Smalling are now our brightest talents. Shaw had about 8 good games in 3 seasons. He had potential, but failed to realise it. And the less said about Smalling, the better.

...and his signings this year haven't been fantastic (I was sad to see that Mikhi is 28, thought he had more time to improve)

His signings have been fantastic. Pogba, Baily and Ibra have been amongst the best players in our team this season. It is almost unprecedented to have 3 out of 4 signings being the best players in the team.
Are you serious or trying to wind us up?

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

@frank lee madeer..

Would you have seriously gone full strength and risked injury on the hope that Liverpool drop points and that a weakened United without Rojo and Zlatan (and Pogba too) could win versus Arsenal, Spurs, Southampton away on the bounce squeezed in between Europa League games whilst all of these teams have a week of rest?

And if an important player or two picked up an injury in a loss to Spurs or Arsenal away, you'd be fine with that, despite massively hurting our EL chances because well, we gave it a go?

 

[wolvored]

If Van Gaal kept support of the fans he'd still be here.

No way! He had 2 years and had us playing worse in his 2nd year. Had to go.

 

[izzydiggler]

There really wasn't "so much" to play for at all @izzydiggler

4 games to go and 1 point behind City and Liverpool (who dropped points last week) - absolutely a lot to play for - and at that point, the Celta Vigo tie hadn't been played and Ajax will be far from pushovers, with the team going to play with no momentum.

It's not even the resting of players - I was quite encouraged by the team that started today but it was a gutless, shambles of a performance, not helped by the manager's admission that he doesn't want to be even playing these games.

Everybody involved (bar the travelling fans) should be ashamed by today.

 

[endless_wheelies]

4 games to go and 1 point behind City and Liverpool (who dropped points last week) - absolutely a lot to play for - and at that point, the Celta Vigo tie hadn't been played and Ajax will be far from pushovers, with the team going to play with no momentum.

It's not even the resting of players - I was quite encouraged by the team that started today but it was a gutless, shambles of a performance, not helped by the manager's admission that he doesn't want to be even playing these games.

Everybody involved (bar the travelling fans) should be ashamed by today.

So we should have accumulated injuries by pushing an already fatigued squad past breaking point vs Arsenal and Tottenham, when Celta/Ajax is a far easier combination of matches to win? It was right for Mourinho to lower expectations for these matches - as well as physically the players need to focus their mental energies on the Europa, and it would have also damaged morale badly to ramp up expectations of beating both our fierce rivals back to back away from home with weakened teams and then predictably lose.

What exactly was so bad about today? From what I saw we pushed an extremely impressive Tottenham side hard in a WHL atmosphere that was worth was about three extra men to them.

 

[Richard Cranium]

Should he, yes.
Will he, no.

 

[Kag]

When we have the players, yes we will.

We will what? Start attacking teams? We have the players to be doing that right now yet don't do a very good job of it.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

We will what? Start attacking teams? We have the players to be doing that right now yet don't do a very good job of it.

I really don't think we do. Without Rojo we have one decent CB, no decent LB and we struggle to even start building up play from the back. With Zlatan out it means the horrific amount of long balls we inevitably smash out from the back are barely contested. Pogba has also missed games now for different reasons.

Those two injuries and Pogba missing games has killed us imo, even with those players we're still at least a a forward/winger short of being able to really attack top teams without ending up getting a beating.

 

[Dancfc]

He has always won the title in his second season but i don't think he will this time. He is still a winner hence almost certainly winning United two trophies (with Jose's cup final record i can't see a young Ajax side shafting you) and his tactics can still be good in one off games as when we came to your place shows, but his relentless and driven nature over a long season seems to have gone. United's season this season is a typical Benitez at Liverpool season, no league consistency but doing well in the cup's.

 

[DavosOfManc]

And then some!

I'm still confused. Me using the term "on a free" doesn't mean I think they are here playing without wages out of the goodness of the heart. It means on a free transfer... Lost in translation?

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

but his relentless and driven nature over a long season seems to have gone.

He won the league with your lot just 2 full seasons ago, in a relentless and driven campaign.

 

[Drifter]

No one can deny that this as been a disappointing season in the PL considering the money spent. But voted no .Give him another season if we don't get into the CL through the back door. If we are back here again .Then he as to go.

 

[Nadger]

All three managers have succumbed to the same fate of their buys not working out or having the expected influence and feeling the pressure of getting results rather than both the performance and result.

I would give Jose time, about 3 years to see an improvement. The squad is a weird collection of players and bad buys, it will take a while.

The table is looking very similar to last year, ~50 goals and the teams above pushing ~70.

Hopefully he buys actual strikers. We haven't replaced Rooney Van Persie Chico. We always had big fire power under Fergie, the managers so far have relied on Rooney and Jose just simply swapped Rooney for Ibra, Ibra alone is not enough. We've spent £70-80 million on Memphis and Martial and put them on the wing. We even had them plus Di Maria at one point, yet no bloody strikers. We also need better delivery from our left and right backs, an Evra type player is needed, no more donkeys please.

Isn't that Jose's career in a nutshell?

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Isn't that Jose's career in a nutshell?

Pochettino's tends to be less in fairness.

 

[Nadger]

Pochettino's tends to be less in fairness.

This is a thread about Jose Mourinho, just in case you forgot.

 

[Vida5Nick]

That's not how football works.

Thats how football works unfortunately. Miss goals and concede and games and points vital for top 4 are dropped Missing one or two chances once in a while is bad luck. Missing consecutively over a long time is bad finishing.

 

[shabadu84]

So we turned up in the matches with our tails between the legs. Ever seen a SAF side do this? Forget that, we couldn't even keep Arsenal/Tottenham out given our defensive record and tactics. Pathetic.

Sooner people get over this idea that a manager is going g to simply come in and turn us back into SAF's finest, the better

Why did you think we were going to approach today's match as anything more than a friendly? We have only one meaningful match left this season. That has been obvious for weeks, that the EL final had become the target at this point.

And I can certainly remember teams during g the SAFyears when the team didn't perform with much more on the line. The season we lost on GD to City - remember how many listless performances there were over the last month? Or how we performed in Europe that year? We clearly shifted priority to the league when we dropped into the EL and got trounced by Bilbao - why is it any different now?

 

[Womp]

So we turned up in the matches with our tails between the legs. Ever seen a SAF side do this? Forget that, we couldn't even keep Arsenal/Tottenham out given our defensive record and tactics. Pathetic.

Yes

 

[WPMUFC]

It's high-risk, high-reward football.

We win the EL final, Jose gets to reset next season with another "war chest" and can challenge. A win also gives us two trophies and a CL place. Not bad imo, especially after last season.

If they fail, then it goes down as an improved season (compared to LVG season 2) yet he has obvious issues to fix and he has enormous expectations to meet.

After LVG season 2, I give any manager a fresh start to repair his damage. We as fans forget the damage inflicted on this squad by that lunatic.

Do we really need to dredge up the news stories about LVG yelling at Herrera for attacking, schneiderlin feeling like a robot and second guessing everything, and the leaked stories about email trackers because the squad just gave up on listening to anything LVG said, just to prove how big of a job this was for Jose in season 1?

Jose has used a large chunk of this season just mentally fixing these players. The ability of time to soften the perception of just how fecking awful we were last season seems to be in full effect in some of these threads.

 

[Insanity]

In my more than 2 decades of watching football, have never seen a big club phone it in the league. It's surreal how we have played the last few games.

Manchester United giving up on a league season - never thought I'll see that in my life time after Fergie turned it into the most successful club in the land and one of the most successful in the world. Don't know what to think about it. Pathetic and cowardly are the words that come to mind.

Jose better win the European Mickey Mouse cup or this season would turn into a catastrophe.

Can't get people saying that our squad is shit. We finished last season with the FA cup and 5th in the league (level on points with 4th) and said we had a terrible manager who should have done better. Then apparently we got the best manager in the world, had a terrific transfer window and still will only finish 6th in the league. Put whatever spin you want on it, the simple truth is we have massively under-performed given the reputation of the manager and the resources he had available. All he has done is tone down expectations to cover his failures.

Now everything hinges on a one-off game, which could go either way. Scary.

 

[ClosetDevil]

If we don't win against Ajax, I think he has to go. It would have been a failed season.

 

[Green_Red]

I have been one of Jose's biggest critics but even I wouldn't want him gone after a season.

It's not his fault we bought and sold poorly up until this season and Jose usually spend well. Even from this season the only questionable buy is mkhitaryan.

We need to rid ourselves of cowards like Jones and smalling and he's the first to call them out on their bullshit.

I'd give him another season for sure if it doesn't work out, someone like allegri or Ancelotti is bound to become available and Jose usually leaves good squads behind so any new manager can carry the work instead of having to burn the house and rebuild again.

It's a bad first season but you can see when players are fit that out game has improved under Jose. Turn 3 of those draws throughout the season into wins and we're in the top 4. Things are getting better.

I expect after having to play a second string side a few times squad depth will be high on his agenda during the summer.

You can't challenge for anything when you have to go to players like Rooney, Fellaini or Smalljng as backup. When we were at our most powerful we essentially had 2 top class starting XIs.

Overll I'd give this season a 6/10. If we win the EL then probably a 7.

I expect improvement next year and I'm confident, even as a Mourinho critic, it will.

 

[Moonred]

He will obviously be kept regardless of the EL final results. Very little credit if that happens though. It will be primarily because we can't keep changing manager every year unless we hire a buffoon like Moyes and because of the hope that he will eventually turn it around.

 

[Lawman]

It's a bad first season but you can see when players are fit that out game has improved under Jose. Turn 3 of those draws throughout the season into wins and we're in the top 4. Things are getting better.

I expect after having to play a second string side a few times squad depth will be high on his agenda during the summer.

You can't challenge for anything when you have to go to players like Rooney, Fellaini or Smalljng as backup. When we were at our most powerful we essentially had 2 top class starting XIs.

Overll I'd give this season a 6/10. If we win the EL then probably a 7.

I expect improvement next year and I'm confident, even as a Mourinho critic, it will.

I think you are correct although I think he will move on a few more perhaps 4 more and replace them with players for his 11 and then Fellaini Lingard and Blind will be more squad players than starters. Think a few have let him down this season Rooney Smalling Jones and Shaw being the main culprits and the disappointing thing is they are all unfortunately English players.

 

[Lentwood]

First of all have some of us learned nothing from last year? LvG was hounded and ridiculed on here despite an unbelievable record as a manager.

Too much credit is assigned to a manager when a team does well and too much critcism when a team does badly

Ultimately it is the players who take to the pitch and have to put the plan of the manager into action

Does anybody honestly believe, looking at our squad, that we have a divine right to be top 4?

I have said it before - there is absolutely no point in even attempting to judge a manager until his 3rd season.

 

[Mana]

Mourinho sent more than £150 million in the summer.

Failure to get Europa should get him the sack. Absolutely. He is at the end of the day, no better than LvG in his second season. In fact, I'll argue LvG did better than Mourinho as FA Cup > League Cup, and LvG lost out by goal difference.

Why Moyes and LvG get the sack for failure of no CL, but Mourinho gets a free pass?

 

[wolvored]

I'm still confused. Me using the term "on a free" doesn't mean I think they are here playing without wages out of the goodness of the heart. It means on a free transfer... Lost in translation?

I understood you. You were saying doesnt he take a salary, and me saying 'and then some' was because of how much he was being paid. Its more like a salary and a half.

 

[Jonno]

First of all have some of us learned nothing from last year? LvG was hounded and ridiculed on here despite an unbelievable record as a manager.

Too much credit is assigned to a manager when a team does well and too much critcism when a team does badly

Ultimately it is the players who take to the pitch and have to put the plan of the manager into action

Does anybody honestly believe, looking at our squad, that we have a divine right to be top 4?

I have said it before - there is absolutely no point in even attempting to judge a manager until his 3rd season.

Good post, we do not have a divine right to be in the top 4, and sadly lots of people on here have been so spoilt this past 20 odd years and think we do.

It is going to take time, and work and commitment to get us to the level that Chelsea and Spurs are at now. Mourinho is building it and I'm with the minority on here, I'm patient and enjoying watching him build it.

 

[Gavin2012]

The argument about how many games we've played this year is odd. Didn't we.play a similar amount last year?

I think the winning mentality will come from having 2 cups in the cabinet, a big European night and celebration and a CL spot for next season.

That's a winning mentality. Going full on into a bunch of games and risking injury to your most important players is a fools game.

You have this shit backwards. We should have been looking to play youth 2nd string in the europa fa cup and not doing so is bad management. Priority was always to challenge for the title everything after that was gonna be a bonus.

The mentality point is wierd. We won the fa cup last year and we are about to finish 6th. Liverpool made the final last year and lost yet they are gonna finish a head of us.

Imo the team would have gained more confidence from actually finishing above the teams that are likely to challenge next year, beating Ajax will be "a good night", but thats all it would be.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

Good post, we do not have a divine right to be in the top 4, and sadly lots of people on here have been so spoilt this past 20 odd years and think we do.

It is going to take time, and work and commitment to get us to the level that Chelsea and Spurs are at now. Mourinho is building it and I'm with the minority on here, I'm patient and enjoying watching him build it.

Yuck

 

[Dr. Funkenstein]

Mourinho sent more than £150 million in the summer.

Failure to get Europa should get him the sack. Absolutely. He is at the end of the day, no better than LvG in his second season. In fact, I'll argue LvG did better than Mourinho as FA Cup > League Cup, and LvG lost out by goal difference.

Why Moyes and LvG get the sack for failure of no CL, but Mourinho gets a free pass?

I don't agree. To sack or not to sack is not about what's fair for the manager, but about what's best for the club. For Van Gaal it wasn't fair that he was sacked, and it was even more unfair that he was undermined since at least december 2015. It's also unfair that Mourinho would be allowed to stay after he made such a mess of the season, but that doesn't matter if Mourinho is the one to take United forward.

The question should be wether Mourinho is the one that's going to make United the best club in the PL and a serious CL contender again. The answer is no of course, so he should be sacked when there's someone available who can.

 

[Viral United]

The argument about how many games we've played this year is odd. Didn't we.play a similar amount last year?

We might play 4-5 games more than last season.
But problem is when we play those games.
If I am not wrong we are constantly playing 2 game a week since April, and at same time our players start picking Injuries.
I think that is one of issue for our bad performance in game.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

Mourinho sent more than £150 million in the summer.

Failure to get Europa should get him the sack. Absolutely. He is at the end of the day, no better than LvG in his second season. In fact, I'll argue LvG did better than Mourinho as FA Cup > League Cup, and LvG lost out by goal difference.

Why Moyes and LvG get the sack for failure of no CL, but Mourinho gets a free pass?

You're a Chelsea fan so I'll try not to waste my time too much on this..

Moyes took a team that was Champions to 7th.

LvG got United into the CL and had a second Summer to build on it, crashed out at the group stage and finished 5th.

Mourinho has had one Summer transfer window and bought all those players before he'd manage a single match. He has taken us from shit to slightly less shit but now knows what the squad needs and can build on it.

If we're here in 12 months outside the top 4 and in no European final, he will be gone just like the others

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

You're a Chelsea fan so I'll try not to waste my time too much on this..

Moyes took a team that was Champions to 7th.

LvG got United into the CL and had a second Summer to build on it, crashed out at the group stage and finished 5th.

Mourinho has had one Summer transfer window and bought all those players before he'd manage a single match. He has taken us from shit to slightly less shit but now knows what the squad needs and can build on it.

If we're here in 12 months outside the top 4 and in no European final, he will be gone just like the others

For sure.

And I still can't get over some of our fans, any manager achieving 2 trophies & Champions League football in his first season after taking over the 5th placed team has done a good job, regardless of the money spent.

As for the money spent, well EL prize money & confirmed CL football probably pays off half of the spend if not more (adidas payments) and the only way to judge money spent is to judge the players bought, not the league position.

 

[worldgonemad]

Based upon the fate of the last two managers Yes would have to be the answer ...

Thing is though , united cannot get into the damaging cycle of ditching a manager every 18 months or so then re-building team again and again. I think no matter what they will stick with him now , and give him more money to spend as well . Hes still one of the big names in management ( even though i do think hes lost some of his mojo over the last 3 years or so ) and as such is key in attracting big names to united . The signing of Pogba and Zlatan are testament to that with no promise of CL football. Keeping Mourinho at OT will be a big part of holding onto talent here already and by that i mean players like De Gea and Rashford ( god help you if you lose de gea , he is immense and for me worth 15 points a season to you guys )

I,m sure that even if he offered his resignation , should you fail to qualify for CL the board would throw masses of cash at him to get him to stay at least another season.