my appologies for reading it wrong
Someone's slashed Huntley's throat!
- Thread starter markorm
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
I assume you mean in the money way? so yeah. But in all honesty it is the dregs they get served, though no where near the American system.
Not quite. DVD releases yes, which always pisses me off.
No, unless they are in Juvenile place then they have to buy it themselves.
For F***s sake its Officers, not guards or warders!! and they will only be there if he is on a suicide watch. They change over as well so its not like he has personal Officers with him at all times.
Not really true. The service is so thin on the ground it does not have the time to look after and help those with Mental Health problems.
You should blame the do gooders. Its impossible to do any sort of job without being under constant threat from solicitors or under investigation from the management who put a prisoners allegations above anything you have to say. They are more protected than a rare species, and they would rather they got rid of an experienced Officer so they can bring in one of the 'new' Prison Officer 2 grades on less pay, less experience, shitter terms and conditions. As long as the top brass get their bonus.
I don't think so.......
Not that I think/ or believe any of them should have any sort of entertainment system (though it does go someway to ensuring thay are occupied in ways other than making shanks with which to attack me and my colleagues) they are only allowed ps and ps2. Gamecube as well I think. No 18 cert. games are allowed. That was funny when that ruling came in!! especially from the robbers who believe they have done nothing wrong (okay generalisation there)that may be his problem - is it the right playstation ? that could really undermine his belief in society attempt to rehabilitate him
he should have been given every type of playstation just to reassure him
My approach to morality is that when we find ourselves in situation where a terrible crime has been committed, we should approach it from the point of view of what is the best we can make of the situation. There can never be ‘justice’ for a murder victim, that’s just a sad fact we have to accept as rational people. They’re gone, and unfortunately nothing we can do will bring them back.
On practical grounds, rather than risk a further major injustice by murdering an innocent person mistakenly found guilty - or someone with undiagnosed mental health problems - it makes much more sense to imprison them so they can cause no further harm. And if they are later found to have been wrongly convicted it's a lot easier to unlock a prison cell than bring someone back from the dead.
On your point of 'rehabilitation', I am not for the rehabilitation of people like Ian Huntley. I accept that some people are beyond ever being able to be released and should live the rest of their lives in prison. I think you’re setting up a bit of a straw man in that I don't think anyone is arguing that Huntley or his type should ever be rehabilitated and released. All we're saying is that the state should not kill its own citizens, largely for practical reasons, but in my case also for ideological ones. I think the unnecessary taking of human life is wrong from an ethical point of view... to put it simply it's the old adage of 'two wrongs don't make a right'.
Fair enough thx for the reply
I admire your convictions mate, but say for example some nutter had raped and murdered my daughter, I'd be quite happy to put a bullet through his brain.
Yes, I've no doubt most people's better ethical and rational judgements are effected in situations of high emotion and stress.
Oh yeah I was listening to this on the 5 Live radio. They were talking about the prisons and officers and if prison officers had the most dangerous job in Britain.
Are you a prison officer sparky?
Its getting that way. We don't have stab vests or any of the other delightful range of equipment the Police have in order to protect themselves. We have a baton. Thats it. And that has only recently been changed from the flimsy wooden stick that was designed to break on impact. The only time an Officer will done a stab vest and PPE is in an organised Control and Restraint incident.
It would be easy to say that ar of our job is to prevent cons getting these weapons but you have to understand that, staffing levels are down, morale is down, they can make a weapon out of anything so the only real way to prevent it is to have a complete bare cell and never let them out. If any of you watch the American prison shows and see some of the everyday items that are confiscated you will know what stuff they can make. However, in our system, they are allowed most everyday items. A pen can be a weapon, a toothbrush can be a weapon. So can clingfilm. So can milk powder. And you just would not believe what they shove up the place the sun does not shine!
kind of gave myself away didn't I? Guessing you were in low cat prisons?
am not saying all cons are out to stab us. They are not. One time a con pulled me away from two cons who were in each others faces. Could have been nasty, and all he was thinking was, must get her out of the way
I've been on worse holidays to be fair. Teneriffe anyone?
whatever
So sparky what are your views on some of the issues we've raised in this and say the Bulger thread considering you've seemingly spent time with some of these kind of people ?
First sentence was in HMP Gloucester for a drunken prank that went wrong and then my second started at HMP Bristol then after I got my Dcat I was sent too Erlestoke.
Bristol and Gloucester were old damp and smelly but the D cat part of Erlestoke was better than some of the hotels I have stayed at.
Attitudes towards the wrong uns have changed over the years aswell,in Gloucester in the early 90's we were actively encouraged to dish out a bit of stick to them but by the middle to late 90's at the cat D jail if we looked at them wrong it was a nicking and a loss of D cat and back with the druggies in gen pop.
I was quite popular at Erlestoke as they introduced pee testing and at the time I was not smoking any narcotics so my pee was like gold dust in there.
The dirty gits used to carry my urine in a balloon under their nuts to keep it at body temp to fool the testers.
Lol!! it does make me laugh when you say wrong 'uns, its just like being at work!!
I would imagine that at the Cat D you would have to be more careful. Yep, found quite a few cut off fingers off gloves for the very purpose of warming the pee!
I know in the late 90's some prisons had mixed wings. Not sure how that worked out but I imagine not very well. Trouble with prisons is that drugs are alot easier to get hold of, despite what we do. Mind you, I kinda enjoy the cat and mouse game.
Never worked in a prison in the 90's. When I joined they spent ages at training warning us of the dinosaurs!!! All very PC nowadays (shocked, I bet!!).
I always work under the premise that I am not there to judge. I speak civily and expect the same back. The only time I had a prisoner raging at me, he came back 10 mins later to apologise. That said, certain things done inside should be punished, but you probably know that we have hardly any option to give any effevtive punishment. A judge has to come in now if there is a possibilty of ADA, and moving someone down a level on the IEP is laughable.
Well, its a bit difficult really. I am not there to judge. The justice system says that we have to rehabilitate and so we try our hardest to do so. That said, some people are just pure evil and should never be allowed in the public domain again.
Sometimes I do have to bite my tongue alot. Sometimes I wonder if they are in a prison.
And what about the families who've got to live in hell everyday of their lives?
What rehab do they get?
What financial support? ....£11,000???????
Yet it cost the taxpayer millions to 'rehab' and protect Huntley and Maxine Carr,
Some justice system.
You sound like 90% of officers I met while inside,did not talk down to us but had to keep a bit of a wall up as familiarity can lead to cons trying to take the piddle.The other 10 were on a power trip and probably failed police lol.
A lot of the officers at the D cat were nearing the end of their career and were winding down at what the prison service deem semi retirement for them.They took us on outside works programmes such as taking disabled children swimming (which proved we were not among the wrong uns) which to be honest and this may sound soft but was an amazing experience that will stay with me for the rest of my life and I would have probably never done on the outside.
So even though I regret jail it has changed me as a person and given me a better chance of keeping my lad on the straight and narrow.
In fairness though mate thats for politicians and not the prison officers on the front line.
At least the failed Police were in the minority! Totally know what you mean. Same for the D cat too. it is seen as semi retirement!
I have taken some out (not D cat) to various things and its all been good. The worst thing fo me is when someone you think will go out and live a law abiding life fails and returns on a similar or more serious charge. It does feel like a kick in the teeth, but its not all about prison time. Its about Probation too and if they get a good hostel or a shit one.
Hey! I agree. But there is not alot I can do about it.
If I am honest my time spent in jail didn't hinder or help my rehabilitation into a decent member of society,it was missing out on my son learning to walk and talk that did for me.All my own doing so I have no one else to blame but I made up my mind that I would never again miss a day of my childrens life.
Nice to talk to you sparky and may see you in Erlestoke in 2042
If I am honest my time spent in jail didn't hinder or help my rehabilitation into a decent member of society,it was missing out on my son learning to walk and talk that did for me.All my own doing so I have no one else to blame but I made up my mind that I would never again miss a day of my childrens life.
Nice to talk to you sparky and may see you in Erlestoke in 2042
I hope to retire well before then!!Sounds as though it did though. Maybe not a lot but if it even helped a tiny bit doesn't that prove that prison is about more than just punishment?
What a stupid equation.
I suppose you have a point Pogue but the actual being in Jail was no hardship,it was being away from family that hurt.So all the offending behavior groups while interesting were not in any way that I can feel a help to me staying out of trouble.The conditions were certainly no deterent and as I have said the majority of the officers were spot on and gave me no grief but that could have been due to me wanting an easy life and being a polite person who always said please and thank you.
What a pompous reply.
fair point cockfaceWell that's it isn't it? Having your liberty taken away is more painful than eating shit food or living in a craphole or even getting a stick across the head now and again.
Yes,sorry I meant the actual physical act of being in jail was not hard at all,no threats or harsh conditions or shit food.What my point is if a prisoner goes to jail with no real family or no care for them he has no worries or fear from jail at all.If however conditions were much tougher and the human rights brigade left well alone criminals would think a little harder before breaking the law.
If you don't have family you have a bird or like to go to the football with your mates... or just like to walk down the road. Most people get agitated when they're forced to sit in a lesson/meeting for an hour when they want to leave. That lack of freedom scares me more than the idea of any rough treatment.
They wouldn't, for all the easy tough talk countries with shitty prison conditions and draconian sentencing don't in general have lower rates of crime or recidivism.
I don't think he means going from one extreme to the other. Its a bit difficult to describe without getting myself in trouble!
Okay, lets put it this way......... it is too easy for a prisoner to lead a life in jail, that I, as an Officer can be jealous about. There is hardly any punishment (and I don't mean whipping and flogging!) to change the way a prisoner acts in jail.
I guess its one of those places the public don't really know about and don't really want to. The only times a jail is in the news is either to criticise the conditions (either way, if its too bad or if its too good) and if there is an escape. Though at least some news time was given to the 3 Officers who were attacked at Frankland. One nearly died. Another Officer at a jail near me had his face slashed. The statement of attacks on Officers are seen as serious is bollocks. They won't always go to court as its the Officers word against the prisoners. Yet there is not a lot we can do about it, apart from strike, which the government have now made illegal for us once more.
Blimey great thread
sparky and Chelt - you both seem to be grounded and reasonable people despite your knowing that particular system inside out from two very different perspectives so
just how difficult is it to remain measured and controlled in the face of mixing with, who you know to be, absolutely hardened evil hard core criminals.? It must really test the self control of either officer or lower grade prisoner - to know what some of these people have done and no doubt have no remorse about it - I take my hat off to you lads - I dont think I could manage that
And how has that effected you both in any way - do you feel it has had any detrimental effect on either of you in the way you deal with live 'outside'?
Fascinating stuff
sparky and Chelt - you both seem to be grounded and reasonable people despite your knowing that particular system inside out from two very different perspectives so
just how difficult is it to remain measured and controlled in the face of mixing with, who you know to be, absolutely hardened evil hard core criminals.? It must really test the self control of either officer or lower grade prisoner - to know what some of these people have done and no doubt have no remorse about it - I take my hat off to you lads - I dont think I could manage that
And how has that effected you both in any way - do you feel it has had any detrimental effect on either of you in the way you deal with live 'outside'?
Fascinating stuff