http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/may/24/jurgen-klinsmann-son-apologise-donovan
Klinsmann's son is a tit.
Klinsmann's son is a tit.
Team America at the World Cup
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
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Amazing how many of them have just nothing to do with the US-soccer educational system. I mean, a country with over 300 million people has to bring a norwegian, an icelandic and a german fourth tier youth player to a world cup? Wow.
Spain brought Costa. England brought Hargreaves. Germany brought Klose.
When he was 8.
Besides Costa, that's an amazingly stupid argument and I think you know that.
I'm talking about approaching players which actually played and were educated by another federation. Both is not true for Hargreaves and Klose. Hargreaves lived in Canada sice he was 16th, I'll give you that, but he was never part of Canada's FA. And Klose german not only by passport but because both his parents are part of the german minority in Poland. He, too, was only educated by the german FA.
I know, all of the players mentioned above do have american passports for some reason, but the point is that they never had anything to do with the states and especially it's FA till Klinsmann came and capped them for his country. Especially in the case of Green it's just ridicoulus. he's not ready for it, and him playing for the USMNT already hampered his career at Bayern massively.
I won't judge the players, it's their decision, but it's pathetic for the US that a FA like Iceland is able to randomly produce a US citizen who is one of the best of his 300 million people country while he probably wouldn't be able to break into the first XI of his birthplace. Which has the same population as, I don't know, Augusta. So much wasted potential, that's my point.
What's your point? Podolski was 19, Cacau was 28, Trochowski wanted to play for Poland.When he was 8.
How is it "amazingly stupid"? Green was born in the US and has an American father who still lives there. It's odd to defend Hargreaves because he wasn't part of the Canadian system but he actually was part of the Welsh system.
His point was that Klose grew up in Germany and was trained in Germany. Same for Podolski. I agree with @fcbforever it is worrying how reliant we are on call up players who were raised and trained in other countries. It is not something we will be able to rely on in the long term.
Klose was just the first example. Podolski wanted to play for Poland. It's not like my examples are true believers and America is the only country using tenuous connections.
I think you are missing @fcbforever 's point.
You, sir, don't know what you are talking about.
Podolski started to play for Germany as soon as the u17's, he NEVER played for Poland even while he could. He never wanted too or said anything that hints in this direction. He came to Germany as a Spätaussielder (for some reasons, american people seem to be unable to understand the concept...) when he was 5 (not 19), played all his youth in Germany and played fot the german FA since he was 15 or 16.
But even then, you are completely missing my point, defending your position against a challenge I never made with invalid arguments.
I do not think you realize what I am arguing about here. For the likes of Jermaine Jones, Julian Green, Fabian Johnson, Mix Diskerud, Timothy Chandler, Aron Johannson, etc their home debuts with the national team was more than likely the first time they ever played a Football match in the US. We can not just sit and hope some quality players pop up in other countries with American passports. I am not arguing against dual nationals here Jozy Altidore's parents are from Haiti, Omar Gonzalez parents are from Mexico the likes of Donovan, Bocanegra, Bornstein, Holden were also dual nationals. But, relying on other federations to produce players for us is a worrying precedent.
That's what I'm talking about. Especially the german ones seem to wait till they are old enough to be sure they won't ever play for Germany, or already have been rejected like Jones. That's not a educational procedure, that's blind luck and hoping american soldiers at Ramstein are fertile.
There is quite a bit of info on the internet about Podolski saying he wanted to play for Poland. Regardless, I am not saying he shouldn't play for Germany. He should play for whoever he wants that he is eligible for. I just think it's a bit rich for someone to talk about what the USMNT is doing when you have the likes of Hargreaves or Costa or Cacau.
But, there has not been a case like Hargreaves for England before or since. It is really the only time it ever happened with them. We have had like 10 cases like that in the last 5 years.
All born in the US?
And Jermaine Jones routinely visited the US through his youth/life?
Green even feckin played with the US u17 residency team for awhile in Florida.
Which are all like, the only cases in their country for the last 20 years. I think Spain hat Marcos Senna, too, but that's about it.
In the US, it is part of the system. You even have scouts searching for players in Europe. You can't deny that's quite unique in the western world.
Interestingly, i also do not find any qoutes of Podolski saying that in german media. Which should be the ones that matter. Even if, the clearest indication for his will would be if he had applied for a polish passport. Which he hasn't. They call him a german-polish footballer, but as it came out whle the Euros in 2012, he doesn't even have a polish passport. He could have got one in a month if he really wanted, he was born on Poland, no problem. I don't know where you've heard that about Podolski, it seems to be a strategy for americans to defend themselves, i encountered that in BigSoccer, too, but it's just a lie.
But why do all of you have this defensive attitude? The may play for the US if they want, no problem, but it's a shame for a FA of a country like the US to rely on such players to fill their ranks, they should be able to develop them themselves and if they ever want to become better they have to change that. Doesn't matter where green was born, he was educated, football-wise, in Germany and played for the german FA, now playing fourth-tier in Germany and is approached by Klinsmann to get a spot at the US World Cup rooster? What the feck? That should not be necessary.
Brede Hangeland was born in the US so was Gotoku Sakai. I am not saying they are not American I am saying they are not really products of US Soccer.
I just read his Wikipedia page. I don't speak polish or whatever BigSoccer is. The reason people are defensive is because of the constant criticism that is often uninformed and acts like the us is the only country that does it. Were you saying " what the feck? That should not be necessary" for the other examples? Do you say it for Ireland? The fact that 300 million is cited demonstrates your bias, since it is something used against USMNT by people who don't understand that soccer (yes soccer) is the fifth most important sport here.
And I was just saying I bet they played a game in the US before international debut
I was being a bit hyperbolic I will admit that.
I'm aware of that. But arguably, at the moment, european federations with 300.000 to 3.5 million inhabtitans have better NT's than the US. Even at fifth's, there should be more potential and I'm sue there is. The US just seems to be unable to reform their educational system in the proper direction. Inviting players educated at foreign federations won't really encourage US kids to try their luck in the american system, too.
We are definitely not the only country who does it and I do not think anyone here thinks we are the only country. But, the cases you are bringing up are completely unrelated to the ones we are talking about. The likes of Costa suiting up for Spain makes a mockery of international Football but, for a completely different reason. And bringing up Klose and Podloski is a false equivalence. If you want to compare the likes of Julian Green to something it is similar to Kevin Prince Boateng suiting up for Ghana or Assou-Ekotto playing for Cameroon.
Neither will using lesser "real" American players who might routinely be embarrassed on the international scene. The US is making huge progress in better developing players but it doesn't happen over night and no point in not trying to win in the mean time. (Everyone knows American sports fans love a winner)
Landycakes having a moan to the press about how he "deserves" to be in Brazil, etc. I think that is somewhat demonstrative of why he's not going. He's always been the face of the team but was never the heart. I'm not sure how he would deal with being on the end of the bench in Brazil for every game if he went. He'd probably have a go at Klinsmann for that as well.
People are trying to paint Donovan as a person he is not to justify Jurgen's decision.
Plenty of players never represent their "home" country then suddenly turn out for another country they never were apart of the youth setup. Subotic trained with US youth sides in his teens then chose Serbia. Vieira was eligible for France because his grandfather was French. All kinds of players have and will do it. Rossi was born and raised in the US and due to his parents heritage, he was eligible for Italy and chose them.
Those other nations do not have four or five nationally favored sports to compete with for the best youth talents. You might want to understand the sporting mindset in the US before criticizing. And yes, I have lambasted both USSF and MLS for failures in youth setups, just so you know before you inevitably retort.
Vieira moved to France when he was 8.
I really do not think that is a good excuse. Soccer is the most popular youth sport in the US. And even later adolescence when soccer decreases in popularity it is still second to Basketball in terms of participation. So we have more than enough soccer players in this country.
Do you understand that the likes of baseball, basketball, and gridiron football have a much longer history, much more fan devotion, much more father-to-son exchange, and ultimately, the money factor in both youth structure and professionally? Until world football, err soccer, catches up with the American sports in terms of money to be made and spent, it will never produce to the top tier talents. Those athletes will take the other sports. It's at least another generation or two away before top tier athletes pick world football over the others.
And the entire youth setup is a joke in most areas of the country. Kids play because parents don't want them in more violent sports, or because they're not good enough for the other sports early on, and many lose interest before they reach their teen years. The travel leagues cost far too much money as well. It's also top heavy of coaches that don't have a clue about the sport. Klinsmann, Ramos, Reyna, et al, were supposed to alter the entire youth setup but I haven't noticed anything (granted I'm not involved in the youth level).
He's Senegalese, just like Roy Keane pointed out in the tunnel. So are you going to moan about Vieira playing for France? How about Rossi for Italy despite living in the US until age 13?
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I think what hinders the US youth system is the fact that it hasn't moved on from the classic college then pro level. The NCAA soccer sides are weak and the trainers they bring in focus more on athletics than football talent. I doubt many players from the USMNT bar Dempsey have developed through this system. Yes there are some set-ups at the MLS but the very nature of the MLS competition system prevents youths from ever making a true impact on the side or even on the league. There is no necessity for a player to step up and improve a weak side facing relegation, there is no chance given to youths who play in sides which are comfortably at the top of the table, there is no loaning youths to a side in a weaker league (Can MLS sides loan players to the NASL?).
Overall I see the USMNT as a team that is yet to develop an identity, both for players and for football philosophy.
It is slightly different don't you think? If Viera stayed in Senegal would he have made it as a professional? Who knows but he probably wouldn't have been as good if he didn't move to France. The France youth system made Viera the player he became. The difference between that and a lot of current American side is that the US youth system had nothing to do with their development. For a county of over 300million for 1/3 of the World Cup squad not to be "American" is a problem.
Of course it works both ways as you point out, Subotic is a great defender and was brought up in America, Rossi too although the 4/5 years he spent in Italy were arguably just as important if not more than the 12 he spent in America.
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Spot on. For me, the only reason why the college system is working in Baseball and Basketball that basically the US are the only really populous state where these sports are played throughout the country. In Basketball it already shows how this could chance, I think a european best of team would be very competitive against the US-team while in 3 of their 6 most populous countrys basketball is just some kind of side-note on national level.
The college system wastes an immense ammount of talent on my opinion.
I think your second paragraph is a much bigger issue than the first paragraph. Once again we still have enough athletes who play association football to compete but, like you said we need much better coaching at the youth level. And American Football and Basketball are filled with athletes that would not be suited for Football at all most of the American Football players are too big and most of the basketball players are too tall.
Thats true, my son plays for the high school and every Spanish or Brazilian parent say he has a lot of skills but the coach thinks he's not tall enough (5'5") and told him and other kids (2 Brazilian) if they dribble they are out. She plays with 2 defenders and the rest need to kick and run. Now my niece plays for a club in Princeton, NJ which they need to pay $4000 a year for her to play and they travel all over the place, play all year except 2 months over the winter but they practice inside of a sports facility. She got 2 knee operations (which she's not the same player she used to be) because they play an insane number of games.
he does have a beer belly
My lord! No wonder he's out of the team. Can't have him getting a miscarriage or anything.he does have a beer belly
