What the hell has Lukaku done ? Has he even won a trophy ?Not being funny but aside from DDG, Lukaku and Matic... not a single one of our players has done remotely enough in their careers to start ”turning” on a manager like Mourinho.
Ramos, Ronaldo, Costa, Hazard doing it is one thing but feck me we’ve got some massive problems in our squad if half of our ”done nexty to feck all in their careers” players are turning on Mourinho.
Similarly against Sevilla we fielded a lineup of his most trusted soldiers- Fellaini, Matic, Mctominay, Lingard, Lukaku, Sanchez, Young and Valencia- the performance was dull and uninspired. Some of his favourites have been putting up shite performances all season so why not show some consistency in player treatment instead of rushing to find scapegoats among his non-favourites?The same thing happened a few weeks ago against West Brom, in which his favoured players played, and they were just as bad, so why not blame them ??
This was just another pathetic moment from Mourinho to distance himself from any responsibility and blame it on the players. Such results have been happening irrespective of which team is chosen, so it is absolute crap to blame it on certain players as if they are the problem.
What in the world has Lukaku done in his career to be validated for "turning on Mourinho" if he decided to?Not being funny but aside from DDG, Lukaku and Matic... not a single one of our players has done remotely enough in their careers to start ”turning” on a manager like Mourinho.
Ramos, Ronaldo, Costa, Hazard doing it is one thing but feck me we’ve got some massive problems in our squad if half of our ”done nexty to feck all in their careers” players are turning on Mourinho.
Nothing.. but he's one of Mourinho's boys so not expected to turn on him, it's why he's been thrown in there. Pogba for example has achieved 5x as more than Lukaku, but obviously his name couldn't be thrown in to make a point because of some alleged issues.What in the world has Lukaku done in his career to be validated for "turning on Mourinho" if he decided to?
Still don't know how Lukaku is that highly regarded.Nothing.. but he's one of Mourinho's boys so not expected to turn on him, it's why he's been thrown in there. Pogba for example has achieved 5x as more than Lukaku, but obviously his name couldn't be thrown in to make a point because of some alleged issues.
Agree. Sevilla was a turning point for me too.I gave up on him after the Sevilla match and subsequent comments. I don't think we're in a position to gamble at this moment and we are improving, albeit slowly, so I think a last chance should be given to him next season. Hopefully he gets us looking decent or at least putting up a decent fight for the title, if not I hope Ed preps for our next manager who is a bit better suited (Sarri? Jardim?)
Agree with you on Sanchez and even Mourinho publicly criticised Sanchez particularly after the Spur defeat. But Sanchez did put out better performance afterwards although not on a consistent basis. Criticism on Lukaku was unfair. He failed to score during mid-season but he did his #9 function consistently. Had Lukaku continue to go goalless then perhaps more pressure to drop him, but no-one is doing a better job than Lukaku as a point man, not even Fellaini.Under Mou. Sanchez was putting up bad performance after bad performance and was getting game after game. Lukaku had a period where he was awful and was given game after game. See that's the problem with this entire narrative. Mou is not consistent and I'm sure players can see through his crap. If that's the case, why would those players run through a wall for him?
Pogba should be in there too of course, completely missed him out by mistake.Nothing.. but he's one of Mourinho's boys so not expected to turn on him, it's why he's been thrown in there. Pogba for example has achieved 5x as more than Lukaku, but obviously his name couldn't be thrown in to make a point because of some alleged issues.
You don't have to be successful player with multiple trophies to turn against manager. If players feel manager is being cnut (not saying Jose is) then they have every right to turn against any coach. For example, players like Hazard and Costa didn't win so many trophies when they turned against Jose.Pogba should be in there too of course, completely missed him out by mistake.
The others though? No fecking way they shoukd be turning on any successful manager.
Do you see the difference between the two quotes? Sir alex said it was the worst performance by the two of them, not see this is why they are shit and I was right not to play them and everyone questioning me can now feck off.Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Imagine being a professional footballer who wants to play at the highest level but Harry Kane’s at any criticism. Good luck taking penalties in a Champions League final 2008 style...
Ferguson: We know Rooney and Ronaldo are going to be great players... but that was possibly the worst performance of the season from the two of them,"Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Imagine being a professional footballer who wants to play at the highest level but Harry Kane’s at any criticism. Good luck taking penalties in a Champions League final 2008 style...
This guy is a journalist. He is paid to write this stuff but he can't tell the difference between the quotes as stated below by @roonster09 . This has been said before many times but football journalists really do steal a living.Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Imagine being a professional footballer who wants to play at the highest level but Harry Kane’s at any criticism. Good luck taking penalties in a Champions League final 2008 style...
Ferguson: We know Rooney and Ronaldo are going to be great players... but that was possibly the worst performance of the season from the two of them,"
Jose: Now you understand why always Lukaku.
There is a day and night difference between 2 quotes and also their management style.
This is really dumb logic if you’re a bit more thoughtful.Not being funny but aside from DDG, Lukaku and Matic... not a single one of our players has done remotely enough in their careers to start ”turning” on a manager like Mourinho.
Ramos, Ronaldo, Costa, Hazard doing it is one thing but feck me we’ve got some massive problems in our squad if half of our ”done nexty to feck all in their careers” players are turning on Mourinho.
Did you even think for half a second before posting this? I mean, can a youth coach be shit at their job whilst simultaneously being one of the best youth coaches in the World with an almost unmatched record of success?This is really dumb logic if you’re a bit more thoughtful.
What the hell has player accomplishments got to do with a coach doing their job well or not? Basically just appealing to authority with this.
Can a youth coach never be shite at their job then?
So basically you think a good manager (based on historical performance) can never do a bad job or at least fail to deliver certain aspects of it. Got it.Did you even think for half a second before posting this? I mean, can a youth coach be shit at their job whilst simultaneously being one of the best youth coaches in the World with an almost unmatched record of success?
"Dumb logic" indeed @Minimalist
Well there’s ”good” managers, and then there’s two times CL winning, 8 league titles in 4 different countries managers.So basically you think a good manager (based on historical performance) can never do a bad job or at least fail to deliver certain aspects of it. Got it.
What was lvg or capello(with England) pedigree? It's not that simple.Well there’s ”good” managers, and then there’s two times CL winning, 8 league titles in 4 different countries managers.
So yeah, I think the squad that had finished 7th, 4th, 5th, 6th since SAF left has more to learn from Jose Mourinho than vice versa.
Or maybe, just all of the managers are shite and they are brilliant league winning players and don’t need to listen to anyone but themselves.
We had Van Gaal who won 7 league titles in 4 different countries, Champions league winner and multiple times runner up, so many other domestic trophies and also manager who finished 3rd in World cup.Well there’s ”good” managers, and then there’s two times CL winning, 8 league titles in 4 different countries managers.
So yeah, I think the squad that had finished 7th, 4th, 5th, 6th since SAF left has more to learn from Jose Mourinho than vice versa.
Or maybe, just all of the managers are shite and they are brilliant league winning players and don’t need to listen to anyone but themselves.
Come on fellas?What was lvg or capello(with England) pedigree? It's not that simple.
In the 15 years before signing for United, LVG had won 2 titles & 0 CL so some perspective please.We had Van Gaal who won 7 league titles in 4 different countries, Champions league winner and multiple times runner up, so many other domestic trophies and also manager who finished 3rd in World cup.
Why are using an arbitrary cut off peridp of 2002?Come on fellas?
Since 2002 LVG has won 2 league titles, 0 CL. And fwiw, damn right the players should have been listening to him, especially if he was clearly improving them season on season, he wasn't though, they were clearly getting worse as his tenure went on.
Capello though, has not had the best record since 2002 either but he did take over England after a relatively successful spell so of course the players shouldn't have been turning on him, well, unless they are (as I mentioned earlier with Ramos, Ronaldo etc), Lampard, Terry, Ferdinand, Cole, Rooney, Carrick, Lampard et al.
Because that's when Mourinho's managerial career started. And since then he's won more in the following 16 years than LVG or Capello have won in their entire careers. LVG was a superb manager in the 90's, but that has little to no relevance today as we noticed during his United tenure.Why are using an arbitrary cut off peridp of 2002?.
Because the Madrid spell broke him, notice his behaviour afterwards. It's different, his teams implode more and do worse in europe.Because that's when Mourinho's managerial career started. And since then he's won more in the following 16 years than LVG or Capello have won in their entire careers. LVG was a superb manager in the 90's, but that has little to no relevance today as we noticed during his United tenure.
Mourinho has never failed to win a title at any of his clubs, so I've no idea why his "aura" of follow me and you'll win titles has gone according to you.
I think that probably proves their point though? At some point, a managers methods and abilities will either decline or football will move on. You can see with Jose that his levels of success are slowly dropping, and he is no longer the charismatic special one.In the 15 years before signing for United, LVG had won 2 titles & 0 CL so some perspective please.
Yeah, because he managed only 6.5 seasons at club football since 2000 before taking over at United. He was manager of National team and had various roles at Ajax. In the 6.5 years, 3.5 years of them at AZ and he made them champions.In the 15 years before signing for United, LVG had won 2 titles & 0 CL so some perspective please.
He coached Alkmaar, not exactly the biggest powerhouse in Dutch football and won the title with them in '09. He won the Bundesliga and DFB cup with Bayern in his first season and reached the CL final, which he lost against Mourinho's Inter. After his short stint at Bayern, he became the sporting director at Ajax Amsterdam, so he didn't really have much time to win titles. He took over the Dutch national team in 2012 and finished 3rd at the World Cup, only losing to Argentina on penalties.In the 15 years before signing for United, LVG had won 2 titles & 0 CL so some perspective please.
I'm not arguing against that though, and in fairness, I mentioned above that "feck yeah" the players should have been listening to a man like LVG, until that is he quite clearly was regressing the team, performances etc. That makes it harder for players to trust a manager's methods, and of course, if Mourinho takes us from 2nd to 6th next season, I'd absolutely expect the players to start turning on him.He coached Alkmaar, not exactly the biggest powerhouse in Dutch football and won the title with them in '09. He won the Bundesliga and DFB cup with Bayern in his first season and reached the CL final, which he lost against Mourinho's Inter. After his short stint at Bayern, he became the sporting director at Ajax Amsterdam, so he didn't really have much time to win titles. He took over the Dutch national team in 2012 and finished 3rd at the World Cup, only losing to Argentina on penalties.
So, given his opportunities, one could still argue he was rather successful before joining United. Whether his football was great to watch or not is a different question. But, given his opportunities, he had still done well. It's too easy to just point towards title wins.
It's irrelevant whether a said player has had a certain type of team success or not. A player should always be able to criticize a manager. It's a way of holding the manager accountable. Mourinho is far from perfect, the early Champions League and the fact that we've scored only 67 goals so far have shown that amongst other things. If only players with a certain degree of quality are allowed to question the manager, you're in deep shit as a team.I'm not arguing against that though, and in fairness, I mentioned above that "feck yeah" the players should have been listening to a man like LVG, until that is he quite clearly was regressing the team, performances etc. That makes it harder for players to trust a manager's methods, and of course, if Mourinho takes us from 2nd to 6th next season, I'd absolutely expect the players to start turning on him.
Right now though, he's taking us on an upward trajectory so if players who have finished 7th, 4th, 5th, 6th these past years are questioning him? They better be Paul Pogba, DDG standard players because the others have served up too much shite these past four years to start questioning a man that right now, is moving the squad forwards.
Already posted a similar example on this thread which highlights exactly the same thing that you are putting forward. Which is also what this thread is about. Motivating players and getting the best out of them! Mourinho's methods are bordering criminal imv and have an adverse effect on players.Ferguson: We know Rooney and Ronaldo are going to be great players... but that was possibly the worst performance of the season from the two of them,"
Jose: Now you understand why always Lukaku.
There is a day and night difference between 2 quotes and also their management style.
That’s only half the story, include those who finished 5th & 6th also.And besides, how many current United players were on those teams that finished 7th and 4th?
So many ManUtd fans agree your and my view.Already posted a similar example on this thread which highlights exactly the same thing that you are putting forward. Which is also what this thread is about. Motivating players and getting the best out of them! Mourinho's methods are bordering criminal imv and have an adverse effect.
No doubt.So many ManUtd fans agree your and my view.
So players should know their role for finishing 5th and 6th whereas they should follow coach because he is leading them to 2nd position.That’s only half the story, include those who finished 5th & 6th also.
Of course it does't. It's opinions after all.No doubt.
Doesn’t make either opinion right or wrong though.
Sadly this is how I feel too.Mourinho is a disgrace, pure and simple. We play the most tumescent football in the league but all he does is blame the players. The end of next season can't come quick enough as he is bound to feck off.
If your past 4 seasons for a club as big as Manchester United have ended in 7th, 4th, 5th & 6th... I struggle personally to see that you’re in any position to start turning on a manager that has an amazing track record now has you in 2nd.So players should know their role for finishing 5th and 6th whereas they should follow coach because he is leading them to 2nd position.
So finishing low means blame the players, finishing higher means praise the coach?
But that aint the point, I mean, John Stones might very well be annoyed with Guardiola right now, but he’d be an absolute bellend for not listening to the manager and trying to improve.Every player. doesn't matter whether he is Messi or Welbeck, can have his opinion on coach and right to express his view when he doesn't agree with coach's management style.
Why?What is clear cut wrong is comparing Fergie to Jose.
