The Mata-Kagawa Linkup today..

[NotoriousISSY]

First time they've disappointed when together really.

Wayne Rooney had a huge impact on their performances too. I know many will disagree with that but you need a forward looking to score goals and not interfere as Rooney was doing at times. He didn't look like a goal-hungry player today, you can't create chances if your main forward is dicking about in areas that were covered.

 

[coolredwine]

Very poor today. Felt like both of them had no plan, weren't following any tactics and just playing according to instincts.

There weren't any tactics, tbh.

 

[ivaldo]

Here we go, we played our best football with both players in the side but one game where Kagawa was crap and Mata was worse and we should sell Kagawa, he isn't good enough.

The main problem was Rooney he constantly made the wrong decision and offered nothing ahead, pretty much everything broke down when it reached him. Everton were compact and we needed a lot of movement to open them up, all he wanted to do was drop deep and play a floating pass to smalling. Seriously need new fullbacks to capitalise on space created by the front players and two central midfielders who can manage to get beyond a jog, we looked so poor when being countered because they literally covered nothing defensively. Every player out there was utter bull with the exception of Hernandez when he came on.

 

[CantonaVeron]

When we played West Brom, West Ham and the 5-0 in Germany we had Rooney up top with Mata and Kagawa behind for two of those, those performances were no different to the Newcastle match, the key is scoring first so the opposition come out a bit, lots are saying why's Rooney dropping out its because there is no space behind because Everton have lots of players defending the penalty box line, there is no way behind, so its extremely harsh to criticise Rooney for that. Its simple some in here have a vendetta against Rooney and massive love for Kagawa one players been here for ten years, year on year he has performed and over the time probably been in our top three performers each season. One come from Germany and contributes nothing of note and he has had plenty of chances by the way and is talked up constantly.

 

[Zak Smith]

Of course I'm not saying the tactic as whole doesn't work. But how anyone can say that Mata/kagawa are effective out wide baffles me. Neither are strong enough, they exposed our wingbacks persistently, and neither have any pace. They aren't wingers, it's clear as day.

 

[CantonaVeron]

Here we go, we played our best football with both players in the side but one game where Kagawa was crap and Mata was worse and we should sell Kagawa, he isn't good enough.

The main problem was Rooney he constantly made the wrong decision and offered nothing ahead, pretty much everything broke down when it reached him. Everton were compact and we needed a lot of movement to open them up, all he wanted to do was drop deep and play a floating pass to smalling. Seriously need new fullbacks to capitalise on space created by the front players and two central midfielders who can manage to get beyond a jog, we looked so poor when being countered because they literally covered nothing defensively. Every player out there was utter bull with the exception of Hernandez when he came on.

Mata kept getting caught on the ball but Rooney trying to hit it wide away from the congestion was your biggest problem??? Get real some people need to take a serious look at themselves.

 

[Skills]

Would love to see them partnered with Van Persie. He's more likely to be on the same wavelength.

 

[Zak Smith]

Mata kept getting caught on the ball but Rooney trying to hit it wide away from the congestion was your biggest problem??? Get real some people need to take a serious look at themselves.

People just go with flavour of the month it's pathetic, every post dribbles of agenda. End up talking about Rooney more than Kagawa and Mata in here.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Here we go, we played our best football with both players in the side but one game where Kagawa was crap and Mata was worse and we should sell Kagawa, he isn't good enough.

of course we need to persist with them but they just disappear in the big games, kagawa especially. need someone to take charge and try to create, and they, esp kagawa, just doesn't seem able in the biggest games. In all the big games we've had problems creating chances and for me its fair to blame the players who's job it is to create chances

 

[ivaldo]

Mata kept getting caught on the ball but Rooney trying to hit it wide away from the congestion was your biggest problem??? Get real some people need to take a serious look at themselves.

I wouldn't mind if he ever managed to actually hit his intended target, its the only thing he does when he gets the ball deep, on two occasions Fletcher and Mata were unmarked on the edge of the box, a simole square pass was needed, Rooney saw it, Neville saw it but you didn't?

 

[dev1l]

Rooney was poor today but the main problem was playing kagawa-mata-nani. None of them can tackle so you lose balance in the team. To make things worse carrick was awful today, fletcher did try but his best was enough.

 

[jojojo]

There was some nice possession play in their half (particularly in the first half) and Mata/Kagawa were fundamental to that. It's clear they look for each other. It was the bit where you try to turn it into a chance where we failed, which probably means that that was where the Everton players could see us coming a mile away. No one ran, no one opened up gaps, no one was ready for the through ball.

 

[ivaldo]

of course we need to persist with them but they just disappear in the big games, kagawa especially. need someone to take charge and try to create, and they, esp kagawa, just doesn't seem able in the biggest games. In all the big games we've had problems creating chances and for me its fair to blame the players who's job it is to create chances

I agreed he was poor today but the whole team fail in big games not just Kagawa. How do you create a chance when your centre forward is standing still beside you? We need constant movement for a short game to work and we didn't have it.

 

[Varun]

Rooney was poor today but the main problem was playing kagawa-mata-nani. None of them can tackle so you lose balance in the team. To make things worse carrick was awful today, fletcher did try but his best was enough.

Not at all. What you need is a plan to get the best out of those 4 and a solid mid 2 behind them. We had neither.

 

[saivet]

I thought Kagawa was okay, not great but okay. It didn't take much but I thought he was better than Mata who for me was nearly as bad as Rooney today.

 

[Godfather]

Both were under par today, especially Mata. BUt they need pacey players that run in behind defenders. We didnt have that today, although I thought that Nani did pretty well today. We lack a serious amount of pace in our team.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

I agreed he was poor today but the whole team fail in big games not just Kagawa. How do you create a chance when your centre forward is standing still beside you? We need constant movement for a short game to work and we didn't have it.

yeah rooneys positioning is an utter disgrace. I'm happy we kept him on in a lot of ways because lethal strikers are hard to come by. Today he should have had two goals so he's not even a bloody lethal striker anymore, the more games pass the more I would like him to leave and we can rebuild from there

 

[dev1l]

Not at all. What you need is a plan to get the best out of those 4 and a solid mid 2 behind them. We had neither.

we d need a very solid "2 mid" behind them and i m not sure that would be enough plan or no plan

 

[Raven Blade]

Both of them had a tendency to delay on the ball at times. There simply wasn't enough movement and speed in front of them. It's no point having so much of the ball when you're not producing an end product.

Defensively they were both exposed by the pace of Everton, especially down the left flank and Buttner received very little cover. In hindsight we maybe should have started one of them on the bench.

 

[ivaldo]

yeah rooneys positioning is an utter disgrace. I'm happy we kept him on in a lot of ways because lethal strikers are hard to come by. Today he should have had two goals so he's not even a bloody lethal striker anymore, the more games pass the more I would like him to leave and we can rebuild from there

He will not sub him no matter what, the same now with Mata. I knew the sub's he'd make today, as I do with most games, regardless of performances he makes the same bloody substitutions.

Moyes is now at a side where he needs to attack teams, he can't grind results out, he's at a loss. The players seem to have lost faith and he doesn't know how to restore it, I haven't said it yet but he's got to go.

 

[LonelyFire]

Rooney screwed the whole team today. No threat in behind and it left Kagawa and mata nowhere to go.

 

[ivaldo]

Both of them had a tendency to delay on the ball at times. There simply wasn't enough movement and speed in front of them. It's no point having so much of the ball when you're not producing an end product.

Defensively they were both exposed by the pace of Everton, especially down the left flank and Buttner received very little cover. In hindsight we maybe should have started one of them on the bench.

Everton played so direct they didn't really have a chance to defend, the cover needed to come from the two defensive midfielders, who were just woeful today, made no difference whatsoever defensively or offensively.

 

[Zak Smith]

Rooney screwed the whole team today. No threat in behind and it left Kagawa and mata nowhere to go.

Drivel. They are two of your attacking four they should be creating chances, movement themselves. You don't see Sterling/Coutinho ambling around with the ball and getting dispossessed like Mata/Kagawa today.

Even when Hernandez came on they provided nothing.

 

[JSMHE]

yeah rooneys positioning is an utter disgrace. I'm happy we kept him on in a lot of ways because lethal strikers are hard to come by. Today he should have had two goals so he's not even a bloody lethal striker anymore, the more games pass the more I would like him to leave and we can rebuild from there

I wish we can. He might can hunt us down if we let him go. But I rather see him go than wasting 250k per week for him while he's not playing consistent at all and not even lethal anymore. RVP is more lethal than him right now. We are not going to spend 250k per week to waste Welbeck, Hernandez and Wilson talent right..?!

 

[Rossa]

Here we go, we played our best football with both players in the side but one game where Kagawa was crap and Mata was worse and we should sell Kagawa, he isn't good enough.

The main problem was Rooney he constantly made the wrong decision and offered nothing ahead, pretty much everything broke down when it reached him. Everton were compact and we needed a lot of movement to open them up, all he wanted to do was drop deep and play a floating pass to smalling. Seriously need new fullbacks to capitalise on space created by the front players and two central midfielders who can manage to get beyond a jog, we looked so poor when being countered because they literally covered nothing defensively. Every player out there was utter bull with the exception of Hernandez when he came on.

You are spot on, mate!

 

[Varun]

we d need a very solid "2 mid" behind them and i m not sure that would be enough plan or no plan

Not enough in itself but it would certainly be a start.

 

[dev1l]

Rooney screwed the whole team today. No threat in behind and it left Kagawa and mata nowhere to go.

he was not good but you can't blame him for everything - as soon as we lost the ball we d end up playing with 8 players. tbf the best thing Rooney did was something that kagawa and Mata should have done when he put mc carthy in his place.

 

[Gaeilge]

Here we go, we played our best football with both players in the side but one game where Kagawa was crap and Mata was worse and we should sell Kagawa, he isn't good enough.

Is that the general consensus yea?

of course we need to persist with them but they just disappear in the big games, kagawa especially. need someone to take charge and try to create, and they, esp kagawa, just doesn't seem able in the biggest games. In all the big games we've had problems creating chances and for me its fair to blame the players who's job it is to create chances

Less than a couple of weeks ago, Kagawa was the best player on the park against Munich....

Rooney screwed the whole team today. No threat in behind and it left Kagawa and mata nowhere to go.

While I wouldn't agree with the idea of Rooney screwing everyone on the park, I will agree that he was not at his best at all. He was supposed to be our primary attacking outlet and despite this, he continuously came back and tried to implement that of a #10. Hardly surprising - considering that has pretty much been his position for a long time now.

 

[Zak Smith]

You are spot on, mate!

We played our best football this season against a rock bottom Newcastle side, that offers as little indication that the partnership works as today indicates that it doesn't.

 

[Gaeilge]

We played our best football this season against a rock bottom Newcastle side, that offers as little indication that the partnership works as today indicates that it doesn't.

Desperately unfair. Had we to have converted our possession into goals today, you would have been nowhere near posting a comment like that.

 

[CantonaVeron]

Both were under par today, especially Mata. BUt they need pacey players that run in behind defenders. We didnt have that today, although I thought that Nani did pretty well today. We lack a serious amount of pace in our team.

Answer a serious question on this as imo its an important point how the hell can you get in behind a team camped on the edge of their box, I'll tell you and its not by playing pacey players, its by getting it wide and crossing it or hitting one from long range, it would have made little difference who play lead striker because there was no space in behind baring the last 10 when Everton surprisingly came out little bit. Today it was the tactics that cost us we should have gone with one of Mata or Kagawa behind Rooney and played two out and out wingers.

On a completely seperate note I thought we missed Evra and Rafael badly today there overlapping runs are what we needed more than anything.

 

[Varun]

If we're ever to fecking use these top bloody players, we need players who want to score rather than ones who want to get involved in the build up play. For most creators, you need a finisher. We didnt have that today

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Less than a couple of weeks ago, Kagawa was the best player on the park against Munich....

obviously i don't agree with that at all. it was his best performance vs a decent team tho, same with a lot of the players. he's far better when we hit on the break and there's space, again like almost all of our players

 

[Godfather]

Answer a serious question on this as imo its an important point how the hell can you get in behind a team camped on the edge of their box, I'll tell you and its not by playing pacey players, its by getting it wide and crossing it or hitting one from long range, it would have made little difference who play lead striker because there was no space in behind baring the last 10 when Everton surprisingly came out little bit. Today it was the tactics that cost us we should have gone with one of Mata or Kagawa behind Rooney and played two out and out wingers.

On a completely seperate note I thought we missed Evra and Rafael badly today there overlapping runs are what we needed more than anything.

Therea are various ways. We didnt even try though. Getting it out wide certainly could have helped, having players that are not totally outpaced could have helped as well, especially wingers as you mentioned. It was tactically weak from Moyes I agree.

 

[Gaeilge]

obviously i don't agree with that at all. it was his best performance vs a decent team tho, same with a lot of the players. he's far better when we hit on the break and there's space, again like almost all of our players

Who played better than him that night? He was absolutely up there as our best player.

 

[Dominos]

Ridiculous that people won't accept that Kagawa and Mata is not effective against a team of any decent quality.

Great sample size.

 

[Blue always red]

No plan B.

Mata + Kagawa + Rooney + Nani = 25inch Penis. 25inch Penis + Girl who won't put out (Everton) = no sex. Waste of a 25inch Penis.
Valencia = Drug. Girl who won't put out + (25inch penis + Drug) = sex.

We need at least 1 orthodox speedy winger whose no nonsense and direct. Look at Chambo, Sterling, Willian, Navas, Mirallas and the rest.

 

[Zak Smith]

Desperately unfair. Had we to have converted our possession into goals today, you would have been nowhere near posting a comment like that.

How is it unfair? Newcastle were/are rock bottom, and that's their only standout game where they have started together. I don't mind one of them starting, and I think they are both excellent players but the side becomes too unbalanced when they both start. And one will always have to play out wide, thats the main issue.

Both lack all the basic attributes of an effective winger [no surprise as they are No.10s]. It's no coincidence that our left side looked so exposed today. The same happened against Liverpool when Mata was played out wide. For me that was as pathetic as the fulham game, dominated possession but so one dimensional in attack.

Great sample size.

It's not about how many times they've played together, it's about how often individually they have looked ineffective out wide. Which one always has to be when they play together.

 

[johnmufc]

Mata has made one of the worst career moves in history. Really feel sorry for him.

 

[RuudTom83]

First time they've disappointed when together really.

Wayne Rooney had a huge impact on their performances too. I know many will disagree with that but you need a forward looking to score goals and not interfere as Rooney was doing at times. He didn't look like a goal-hungry player today, you can't create chances if your main forward is dicking about in areas that were covered.

I agree!

Stocking the team with no.10 looks great against the lower teams or when a match is already won, but Everton coped with those 3 with ease today.