Actually, thinking about it, there's still one big question mark hanging over Matawa/Juanji and it's the same one applying to Moyes and the team in general. Can they perform against really top opposition? Until then, we shouldn't get carried away (which is what's happening in that piece I linked to)
The Mata-Kagawa Linkup today..
- Thread starter The Man Himself
- Start date
I think the whole squad was negatively affected by the transition to life after Fergie. Loads of players playing well below their best. Kagawa has clearly upped his game recently, though. For which he deserves credit. Mata's obviously played his part in this but we do seem to be playing better as a team overall. Defending better, for example.
That's probably a factor too. I just hope Moyes is adaptive enough to realize what a talent he has and will be able to get what Klopp got out of him.
Yeah, hard not to worry that Moyes has stumbled across this rich vein of attacking football more by luck than design.
In order for that combination to be sufficiently balanced for us to move ahead with it in big matches, we need a lot more control than we currently have in the middle of the pitch. Whether that come about by recruiting players that can control a game through general play and movement, or preferably players that can physically dominate opponents and still play a bit, we can't really judge how good our forward combinations will be until we have that.
Carvalho would be a big step in the right direction. As will adding two quality full-backs to the squad.
It feels a little like we are starting to see the first Moyes team take shape now, which is comforting. A strong summer in the market and we are ready to go again next season.
Yeah, that's true. Good point.
Will need a couple of our CMs to have a blinder. A long shot but possible?
I think his plan has always been to move in this direction (otherwise why sign Mata) but the simple fact is that Kagawa's form has improved. All of the fanboys will find a million reasons why he hasn't been playing well, but the bottom line is that he hasn't been doing enough to warrant a place. Young and Valencia have been picked in front of him so many times this season, not because they have offered more offensively, but because they give our full-backs better protection.
New players is the only way to solve that I fear. Carrick doesn't do it often enough to be a guaranteed starter for me, and Fellaini was (IMO) only ever signed to be a squad player. If we can get Carvalho + 1 other then we will be in a strong position to challenge for the title again next season.
This partnership needs to be the basis of our next team. When you have such chemistry, and it is still in its elementary stages, you must run with it. The third man in this equation is absolutely crucial though, as he would need to provide a more direct threat. I have no doubt at all that Januzaj can be that man to run defenders with and without the ball, and also grab 15-25 goals a season too. He is probably a year of physical development and experience away from that, which may present a decision as to whether we go for a wideman this summer or not. If we signed a Reus or so, I'd expect Kagawa to ultimately lose his place in the team eventually once Adnan peaks.
I think a line of:
Januzaj -- Mata---Kagawa
will grow into something very special if given a year and the right support behind it. All reports suggest an interest in Carvalho, but if Moyes is insistent that our next midfielder is coming to partner Fellaini then we have a problem. However, if we can get Carvalho is alongside a more dynamic midfielder with creativity, I would say we have all we need. Basically, somebody like Anderson on his very good days would be perfect for the role next to Carvalho. He can run both boxes, has strength, penetrative passing and more recently a decent share of goals. Excluding Vidal as a viable option, a fit Gundogan would be my preferred choice (or a punt on Mateo Kovacic). If that is no possibility, I firmly believe that Ross Barkley has it in him to become a Vidal-type of 8, strong, ability to run between both boxes and carry the ball as well as pass it. He will undoubtedly also contribute 10-15 a season once he peaks too.
I think a line of:
Januzaj -- Mata---Kagawa
will grow into something very special if given a year and the right support behind it. All reports suggest an interest in Carvalho, but if Moyes is insistent that our next midfielder is coming to partner Fellaini then we have a problem. However, if we can get Carvalho is alongside a more dynamic midfielder with creativity, I would say we have all we need. Basically, somebody like Anderson on his very good days would be perfect for the role next to Carvalho. He can run both boxes, has strength, penetrative passing and more recently a decent share of goals. Excluding Vidal as a viable option, a fit Gundogan would be my preferred choice (or a punt on Mateo Kovacic). If that is no possibility, I firmly believe that Ross Barkley has it in him to become a Vidal-type of 8, strong, ability to run between both boxes and carry the ball as well as pass it. He will undoubtedly also contribute 10-15 a season once he peaks too.
Giggs proved beyond any doubt against Olympiakos how much more pacy and fluid we can look with that kind of player in the middle, even with a set of forwards that are not considered to be quick. Likewise, Scholes has been doing that for us for many years, and we miss it badly.
Its obvious why Moyes pushed so hard for Fabregas (who would have been perfect) and is IMO the main reason why we have struggled so badly this year. This last couple of seasons have been the first in nearly two decades that we have lacked that kind of a player consistently, and it shows in our performances over that period. I was hoping that Cleverly could grow into that role, but I don't think he will sadly.
Agree. As far as the first XI is concerned, I think we're no more than 3 players away from a title-challenging squad. Carvalho +1 in the middle and a top left-back is all we really need. After that, it's up to Moyes. The Rooney/Persie situation must be sorted in the summer too.
Well, some people talk about Kagawa being used wrong, out of form, poor in training, not given chance...
I think he might have had the wrong instructions, rather than position (as he is used in a wide DEFENSIVE position in his national team with success, and more centered attacking position).
He might have been out of form, but again, it might have been because of the fact that he now has a better understanding about the team, the players, and perhaps he and Mata, as we see nowdays get the best out of eachothers.
The fact that he has not been used so much (as some claims, me included) might be that he has not performed well in training, been somewhat unrested at times (personal problems happen etc.) Or the managing team simply has not seen how he can make impact in his current form in certain games. Who knows?
The most important thing is now to develop our attacking lineup around our good offensive players, like we see more and more of these days. That is at least what I wish for!
I think he might have had the wrong instructions, rather than position (as he is used in a wide DEFENSIVE position in his national team with success, and more centered attacking position).
He might have been out of form, but again, it might have been because of the fact that he now has a better understanding about the team, the players, and perhaps he and Mata, as we see nowdays get the best out of eachothers.
The fact that he has not been used so much (as some claims, me included) might be that he has not performed well in training, been somewhat unrested at times (personal problems happen etc.) Or the managing team simply has not seen how he can make impact in his current form in certain games. Who knows?
The most important thing is now to develop our attacking lineup around our good offensive players, like we see more and more of these days. That is at least what I wish for!
The only thing that worries me is that this little thing they have was discovered "by accident"...to quote the mirror. Which is quite possibly the most true thing they've ever written.
You just hope that the ridiculous signs of positivity from both has opened the eyes of David Moyes and his team.
For months and months so many people have speculated how Kagawa would perform in a system allowing him genuine freedom. Wayne Rooney in the number 10 spot is far too rigid for me, he likes to receive it in a pocket and knock it out wide. With our current crop of wingers that is a redundant pattern of play and makes the methodical (a term I use loosely) style of play we have even more difficult.
The accident could be a 5 year plan if either Januzaj continues his progress or we obtain the services of an outstanding wide man. Juan Mata and Shinji Kagawa simply must start every game possible from now on (CL aside).
Obviously in 'big games' they aren't likely to flourish as much until the central midfield issue is solved. But I just hope David Moyes has seen the positives we can all see. I've not seen link up like this between two players at United for a long time.
You just hope that the ridiculous signs of positivity from both has opened the eyes of David Moyes and his team.
For months and months so many people have speculated how Kagawa would perform in a system allowing him genuine freedom. Wayne Rooney in the number 10 spot is far too rigid for me, he likes to receive it in a pocket and knock it out wide. With our current crop of wingers that is a redundant pattern of play and makes the methodical (a term I use loosely) style of play we have even more difficult.
The accident could be a 5 year plan if either Januzaj continues his progress or we obtain the services of an outstanding wide man. Juan Mata and Shinji Kagawa simply must start every game possible from now on (CL aside).
Obviously in 'big games' they aren't likely to flourish as much until the central midfield issue is solved. But I just hope David Moyes has seen the positives we can all see. I've not seen link up like this between two players at United for a long time.
No wonder they always find each other when passing the ball - Mata can't let his eyes off Kagawa.
Mata loves him.
Mata loves him.
Moonwalking with a smile!Though i should post this, fairly good reading imo
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/manchester-united-news-juan-mata-3384540
Seriously, if Moyes sells Kagawa in the summer and Young/Valencia stays on board, i am going to start cutting myself
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/manchester-united-news-juan-mata-3384540
Seriously, if Moyes sells Kagawa in the summer and Young/Valencia stays on board, i am going to start cutting myself
Mata loves him.
took me a while to see that.I'd like to see Kagawa-Mata-Nani behind Rooney/Van Persie, the fluidity of that foursome could tear the league a new one but it is imperative to have a solid base in midfield on which to build .
As for selling Kagawa whilst keeping Young I'd like to believe that Kagawa has really made Moyes look up and notice what he could bring . The way Moyes used Mirallas and Pienaar at Everton shows that he is not too much of a tool with flair players .
Shinji's song can change now.
"All Moyes needs is ... Shinji and Mata"
"All Moyes needs is ... Shinji and Mata"
Interestingly, it is not only us who are discussing Mata-Kagawa partnership. It has got good exposure in media as well and hopefully Moyes will continue to operate them together and importantly NOT even think of selling Kagawa!
So it seems Mata may be the one who actually helps save Kagawa's United career. Don't think many saw that happening.
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Might want to seriously hang onto this in case DM reverts back to Rooney/RvP boot-licking mode and our performances start to suffer as a result.
As soon as he was signed, lots of people predicted mata would definitely help kagawa's game as they are similar types. Everyone could see it except moyes of course.
I thought many assumed that Mata coming in meant the end for Kagawa here.
This thread just reminds me how frustrating this season has been, fingers crossed in anticipation before every team sheet, hoping that Moyes has finally seen the light only for him to disappoint us once again. I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen a lineup this season and said "yep, that all makes sense and it's what we want to see".
Everyone's said it, the real test will be when RVP gets fit, and we'll see whether Moyes reverts to Rooney/RVP up top. If he's got any sense though, he'll start Kagawa-Mata-Nani/Januzaj behind one of our strikers in every PL match until the end of the season.
Everyone's said it, the real test will be when RVP gets fit, and we'll see whether Moyes reverts to Rooney/RVP up top. If he's got any sense though, he'll start Kagawa-Mata-Nani/Januzaj behind one of our strikers in every PL match until the end of the season.
Think many felt if they got the chance they'd be great together, just that he probably wouldn't get many chances. Pretty much what happened, as it's still not guaranteed that moyes will keep kagawa. We'll see if he starts today, or for the rest of the season.
He'll keep him. Recently every time a journo has prompted Moyes to praise another player (Rooney, Mata, whoever), he's made a clear point to also credit 'Sinjeh'. I think he's starting to warm to him a bit.
Certainly hope so, think he can become a key player in the side, and the trio of Rooney-mata-kagawa has looked really good together, better then any other combination we've played these last 2 years really.
Might not matter if Moyes wants to keep him, Shinji may still want to go based on his treatment in the first half of the year.
Doesn't mean anything if management really wants to keep him. He's still contracted, and yes, even though players want to break contract and move all the time, Shinji doesn't strike me as that type of player.
Just saw this.
Wonder if Kagawa's ticking of the ball, playing well in tight areas under pressure, off the ball movement, making and getting into spaces and his fantastic workrate is actually what is needed to get the best out of Mata. With our current squad, I dont see any way in which more can be gotten out of Mata with players other than when playing him with Kagawa. Even at his last season at Chelsea when he was playing his best and in the hole, he had players like Hazard and Oscar around him who worked around him. I dont think Rooney(lack of ability to create and run into spaces and poor touch), RVP (lack of workrate), Januzaj(lack of general maturity) can provide Mata with that sort of support that Kagawa provides. Welbeck and Nani probably can, but nowhere near the standards Kagawa can do it at. With Rooney/RVP playing as strikers, Mata without Kagawa would be left to do too much on his own and it would be more about playing passes wide and running forward and then getting them back. You can see in the video below from his 2013 year with Chelsea that he does a lot more when people are playing around him. It holds true for any no.10 for that matter. And it is probably also the reason why Rooney as a no.10 is not so good. I think it is clear as day what the way forward for us is. What Moyes does remains to be seen.
Btw, Januzaj makes some really retarded passes in that Newcastle match video and has a few lame failed shots. Quite funny.
One off day at the office; he will be back.
Wonder if Kagawa's ticking of the ball, playing well in tight areas under pressure, off the ball movement, making and getting into spaces and his fantastic workrate is actually what is needed to get the best out of Mata. With our current squad, I dont see any way in which more can be gotten out of Mata with players other than when playing him with Kagawa. Even at his last season at Chelsea when he was playing his best and in the hole, he had players like Hazard and Oscar around him who worked around him. I dont think Rooney(lack of ability to create and run into spaces and poor touch), RVP (lack of workrate), Januzaj(lack of general maturity) can provide Mata with that sort of support that Kagawa provides. Welbeck and Nani probably can, but nowhere near the standards Kagawa can do it at. With Rooney/RVP playing as strikers, Mata without Kagawa would be left to do too much on his own and it would be more about playing passes wide and running forward and then getting them back. You can see in the video below from his 2013 year with Chelsea that he does a lot more when people are playing around him. It holds true for any no.10 for that matter. And it is probably also the reason why Rooney as a no.10 is not so good. I think it is clear as day what the way forward for us is. What Moyes does remains to be seen.
Btw, Januzaj makes some really retarded passes in that Newcastle match video and has a few lame failed shots. Quite funny.
One off day at the office; he will be back.I can sum this debate up in a nutshell.
Fan's Opinion: Kagawa + Mata + Januzaj =
Moysie's Opinion: Kagawa + Mata + Januzaj =????
Fan's Opinion: Kagawa + Mata + Januzaj =
Moysie's Opinion: Kagawa + Mata + Januzaj =??
??Moyes' Opinion: Young + Valencia = cross, cross, cross, and more crosses...I can sum this debate up in a nutshell.
Fan's Opinion: Kagawa + Mata + Januzaj =
Moysie's Opinion: Kagawa + Mata + Januzaj =??
How often has Moyes started both Young and Valencia in the same game in the last 3-4 months?Moyes' Opinion: Young + Valencia = cross, cross, cross, and more crosses...
Because these kind of posts are getting more and more boring by the day.
He did in our biggest game of the season at the time, is that not (bad) enough?
Answer the question or don't bother replying.
Its a funny one. If you were to ask me I'd say that Young had probably played twice as often as Kagawa this season. But when you actually look the stats are quite different. Kagawa 19 starts + 7 sub. Young 16 starts + 12 sub. Its probably because Young was so obvious when we were in a tailspin after Xmas, but he's actually given Kagawa a fair crack this season.
I just hope that playing him vs Bayern is a sign that he'll keep him next season.
Oh yeah, that game that Mata wasn't even available for and in a competition that Januzaj had zero experience in. Good point.
I couldn't even work out what game he was talking about.
So, yeah, since we've signed Mata, I'm fairly sure that Young and Valencia have started together just once, as you say, in a game where Mata was ineligible.
And yet certain posters STILL think it's funny to post snide comments about Moyes picking Young and Valencia over Mata and Kagawa in dozens of threads across the forum.