The MMA thread

PhilipB

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fecking hell, where have you been, man? :D

I'm not saying that he needs to stop doing it, but I don't have to like him for it. The majority of fans he has on this forum support him just because he's Irish.

If he was from another country most of his current fans would love to see this cocky cnut and his big gob get smashed too, trust me.

I know it's all a show and it's working but it really makes my toes curl.
Kinda forgot about this place, to be honest! Was bored and thought I'd check out this thread since it had been a while. Don't really get to stay up for many of the cards any more since they're shown an hour even later than they were when I lived in Ireland. Only watch the really big cards live now.
 

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Obviously the UFC want McGregor to hold both belts. He will be the biggest star ever then, if he isn't already. It's a no-brainer for them. It's a promotion anyway, not a sport.
 

Oggmonster

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fecking hell, where have you been, man? :D

I'm not saying that he needs to stop doing it, but I don't have to like him for it. The majority of fans he has on this forum support him just because he's Irish.

If he was from another country most of his current fans would love to see this cocky cnut and his big gob get smashed too, trust me.

I know it's all a show and it's working but it really makes my toes curl.
Bit of a sweeping statement. I'm not Irish, I couldn't care less he is Irish I just think he's funny. If anything you're generalising everyone else cos you don't like him.
 

JP77

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Aldo is absolutely spot on with everything he's said.

On how he fought out about Alvarez vs. McGregor: “I heard about everything that happened from my coach. He’d talked to Sean Shelby on Saturday, and Sean didn’t have an answer for anything and asked if I could fight on Nov. 12. My coach answered that if it were against Conor, yes, and then Sean asked him if I’d fight Max Holloway or Anthony Pettis. Then (Andre Pederneiras) said that, for these two, he’d rather do a full camp and that it could happen on Dec. 10. So we waited until Dana said publicly that he wanted this fight with McGregor to happen. Then we were expecting it to happen: either I’d have my rematch to unify the featherweight belt or I’d get my belt back fighting Holloway or Pettis, considering that, according to what Dana himself had been saying all along, Conor couldn’t keep both belts. But, to my surprise, I found out last night about the fight between McGregor and Eddie Alvarez, who’d also been denied by Dana himself last week and, to make matters worse, he’d keep the featherweight belt, being able to get two belts simultaneously.”

On what he thinks about the UFC letting McGregor keep the linear belt even though he hasn’t fought in the division since their last bout: “Conor, himself, had said he wasn’t going to give the belt away and that no one would take it from him. After all of this, I see I can’t trust a single word from president Dana White and that the person in charge of the event now is Conor McGregor. Since I’m not here to be McGregor’s employer, I ask for my contract with the UFC to be terminated. When they suggested the fight against Frankie Edgar, Dana said the winner of this fight would either be McGregor’s challenger or have the undisputed belt, because if he didn’t return to the featherweight division after the Nate Diaz rematch, he’d lose the belt. After so many times being lied to, I don’t feel motivated to fight in the UFC anymore.”

On Dana White saying that McGregor will have to defend the featherweight belt next: “I no longer believe in Dana’s statement that Conor would have to give up one of the belts after UFC 205 since, from what we’re seeing, this type of decision is no longer in his hands, since now Conor is the one calling the shots. The biggest proof that the person in charge of the UFC is Conor is that when I wanted to move up to fight Pettis, they said I’d have to give up my belt and try the fight with no belt. With him, not only did they let him fight in the upper division without losing the belt, they let him do other fights as he wishes. I understand he’s a big draw, but there’s a limit in which this is no longer a sport and it’s a circus. I don’t want any type of fight with the UFC. The only thing I want is to move on with my life and that they move on with theirs.”
 

kidbob

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I have a feeling that it's over for Conor if he beats Alvarez. He's always talked about getting in and out quick without taking too much damage. Can see him walking away and then coming back for the 3rd Nate fight at some point. Maybe that's why Dana is giving him the chance to be a 2 weight champion.

@Vato him being Irish helps but that's too simple a way to look at it. Ignore all his talking and antics and he's a very very exciting fighter who always shows up and tries to finish fights. His style of fighting is also very very exciting, I don't think I've ever seen him in a boring fight. For me that's why I like him so much along with Nate, Nick, Aldo and Lawler or anyone who has that anti wrestling style.

On the Irish thing it has to be said it's bloody impressive for a guy to become UFC champion coming from a country with no history in the sport, in fact a country that they're still battling for MMA to be recognised as a sport and not a human cock fight.
 

Oggmonster

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I have a feeling that it's over for Conor if he beats Alvarez. He's always talked about getting in and out quick without taking too much damage. Can see him walking away and then coming back for the 3rd Nate fight at some point. Maybe that's why Dana is giving him the chance to be a 2 weight champion.

@Vato him being Irish helps but that's too simple a way to look at it. Ignore all his talking and antics and he's a very very exciting fighter who always shows up and tries to finish fights. His style of fighting is also very very exciting, I don't think I've ever seen him in a boring fight. For me that's why I like him so much along with Nate, Nick, Aldo and Lawler or anyone who has that anti wrestling style.

On the Irish thing it has to be said it's bloody impressive for a guy to become UFC champion coming from a country with no history in the sport, in fact a country that they're still battling for MMA to be recognised as a sport and not a human cock fight.
Dana said Conor has some personal issues going on and the fight makes sense now cos of them. Conor has a ridiculously high turn around on fights compared to other big names in the UFC so I'd guess he will give up one of the belts if he wins and then take some time off. Might be a blessing in disguise for the UFC as it allows them chance to build another star and share the spotlight with Conor and not constantly put all their eggs in that basket having him fight the biggest cards.

The line on Stephens is brilliant, the whole clip is hilarious. The fact it cuts to everyone laughing on stage at him just shows he made a bit of a tit of himself. Had his chance and shown himself up big time.
 

Zen

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Not sure what's so good about that putdown.....it was exactly what I was thinking when I opened that clip. Basic as it comes.

I respect the hell out of Conor for smashing the fights out though, doing wonders for the company and well his wallet too. But 3 mega fights a year two times in a row. Kudos.
 

Oggmonster

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Not sure what's so good about that putdown.....it was exactly what I was thinking when I opened that clip. Basic as it comes.

I respect the hell out of Conor for smashing the fights out though, doing wonders for the company and well his wallet too. But 3 mega fights a year two times in a row. Kudos.
I found the whole thing pretty funny. Maybe cos it was more old Conor just taking the piss rather than going on about his money. Thought the reactions from the others made it funnier as well on top of Conor looking round assuming Edgar said it (which would make sense) rather than Stephens in the corner. Each to their own though.
 

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Alverez's little digs were pretty weak, considering he prepared them as well. Asking McGregor why he has two BJJ coaches and why he spent $300k on his camp, well if you make 10-15m a fight obviously you are going to spend more your preparation if you can afford it. I'm sure as a champ and top fighter Alvarez spends more on his camp than most other fighters.

Then the stuff about big boy/little boy belts, jesus he's a lightweight ffs. He looked a bit nervous.
 

sullydnl

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Don't think Mark Henry rates John Kavanagh much. Maybe there'll be a little more genuine needle in this fight.
 

Raoul

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Alverez's little digs were pretty weak, considering he prepared them as well. Asking McGregor why he has two BJJ coaches and why he spent $300k on his camp, well if you make 10-15m a fight obviously you are going to spend more your preparation if you can afford it. I'm sure as a champ and top fighter Alvarez spends more on his camp than most other fighters.

Then the stuff about big boy/little boy belts, jesus he's a lightweight ffs. He looked a bit nervous.
The correct answer of course is that Conor's jujitsu is any where from non-existent two weak to where he needs to coaches to help him stay afloat. An expert like Khabib would take him down and that would be that.
 

Raoul

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So Aldo says he wants to be released and will retire after Dana promised him a Conor rematch. The UFC is quickly becoming a Jerry Springer like WWE joke where fighters theatrically prostitute themselves at pressers and roided up executives oblige. Everyone has in the past year become a slave to money and the sport is rapidly hemmoging integrity. I expect it to get much worse with the new Hollywood ownership.
 

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So Aldo says he wants to be released and will retire after Dana promised him a Conor rematch. The UFC is quickly becoming a Jerry Springer like WWE joke where fighters theatrically prostitute themselves at pressers and roided up executives oblige. Everyone has in the past year become a slave to money and the sport is rapidly hemmoging integrity. I expect it to get much worse with the new Hollywood ownership.

It's also becoming a bit Jerry Springer like with the fake retirement bollocks to. I'd be surprised if Aldo doesn't fight again.

Probably the best UFC card ever put on and people will still complain, it's just odd to me. Sure there's politics in the sport but just enjoy the event. The whinging about press conferences is odd as well...just don't watch it, especially the McGregor ones as you know what's coming if you don't enjoy them, it's the same formula every time.
 

cyberman

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Why do people immediately point to the WWE?
Conor is a (wittier) version of Mayweather, that sport is full of politics but the difference is the UFC uses this to hype fights.
They have showcased numerous stacked cards over the last year and a bit. Boxing hypes their stars as they fight nobodies and avoid each other..
 

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It's also becoming a bit Jerry Springer like with the fake retirement bollocks to. I'd be surprised if Aldo doesn't fight again.

Probably the best UFC card ever put on and people will still complain, it's just odd to me. Sure there's politics in the sport but just enjoy the event. The whinging about press conferences is odd as well...just don't watch it, especially the McGregor ones as you know what's coming if you don't enjoy them, it's the same formula every time.
Perhaps the UFC need to take the retirement threats from some of their iconic fighters over the years a bit more seriously and ask why such things happen in the first place. The answer is quite clear - broken promises due to the UFC's insatiable appetite to make money. In essensce they are choosing greed and deception over integrity.
 

Zen

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I think they point to WWE because they are more likely to show up in those rings than a boxing ring, boxing still in a insanely specialist sport, which is why you barely see people who've defined their pro lives as boxers show up, outside of teasing for cheap hype, in MMA....James Toney is about all I remember.

Off the top of my head, I know Brock, Batista, Punk, Lashley, Shamrock and Del Rio have all done both WWE and MMA to varying degrees of success. Punk and Batista metely potshot 1 offs similar to Toneys, though Batista beat some journeyman.
 

Raoul

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Why do people immediately point to the WWE?
Conor is a (wittier) version of Mayweather, that sport is full of politics but the difference is the UFC uses this to hype fights.
They have showcased numerous stacked cards over the last year and a bit. Boxing hypes their stars as they fight nobodies and avoid each other..
Because it's all fake just like the WWE. See Conor's water bottle fight with Nate as evidence of just how low we are sinking in the insatiable pursuit of pre-fight Hype.
 

Raoul

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I think they point to WWE because they are more likely to show up in those rings than a boxing ring, boxing still in a insanely specialist sport, which is why you barely see people who've defined their pro lives as boxers show up, outside of teasing for cheap hype, in MMA....James Toney is about all I remember.

Off the top of my head, I know Brock, Batista, Punk, Lashley, Shamrock and Del Rio have all done both WWE and MMA to varying degrees of success. Punk and Batista metely potshot 1 offs similar to Toneys, though Batista beat some journeyman.
Good point. The UFC is fast blurring the lines between legitimate mixed martial arts competition and fake WWE silliness due to the former WWE fighters as well as the increasingly idiotic hype shows. But it's all ok here as long as McGregor is winning.
 

Zen

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I can completely understand the sidestep of Aldo, makes complete business sense for everyone but Also. Conor can win or lose against Alvarez then take the third fight against Diaz at Lightweight, which again, he can afford to win or lose, even on back to back losses. THEN he can go back to featherweight, as champ or not and still be massive, because a money rematch at favoured weights is still sitting there in Aldo.

Lose to Aldo now and you can't sell the Alaverez/whoevers champ fight as him going for 2 belts at once.

In and out before 30 right? Would have pretty much the top 5 PPV;
 

cyberman

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Because it's all fake just like the WWE. See Conor's water bottle fight with Nate as evidence of just how low we are sinking in the insatiable pursuit of pre-fight Hype.
I honestly don't think that was set up though.
That was all scrap pack nonsense and Conor lost his cool.
If you were going to stage a fake confrontation then surely they can think of something better than that?
A good old fashioned DC v Jones brawl or some pull apart nonsense. The water bottles was just a childish squabble.
The UFC are raking it in, the fighters are getting paid on Conors card and it's not effecting the actual fights in the octagon.
They may have thrown cans of Monster but feck me what a fight.
 

sullydnl

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So Aldo says he wants to be released and will retire after Dana promised him a Conor rematch. The UFC is quickly becoming a Jerry Springer like WWE joke where fighters theatrically prostitute themselves at pressers and roided up executives oblige. Everyone has in the past year become a slave to money and the sport is rapidly hemmoging integrity. I expect it to get much worse with the new Hollywood ownership.
In some ways I agree. However, in other ways I think it's actually gaining integrity as a sport. The strides taken in anti-doping measures, the push towards fairer pay for fighters, the push towards some sort of union for fighters, the increased examination of the way the UFC deals with the media, etc.

This MSG fight is in many ways a mark of how much the sport has progressed. There are downsides, sure, but has MMA or the UFC ever been healthier?
 

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Perhaps the UFC need to take the retirement threats from some of their iconic fighters over the years a bit more seriously and ask why such things happen in the first place. The answer is quite clear - broken promises due to the UFC's insatiable appetite to make money. In essensce they are choosing greed and deception over integrity.
For it to be taken seriously I'd suggest they actually have to follow through with it. At least Rory actually fecked off to Bellator. Time will tell if Aldo actually does retire, if he does good luck to him...if not he looks a bit of a dick to be honest.

The "problem" the UFC have with McGregor is whether other people can do the same. It's baffling to me people suggest they're doing something hugely wrong and how Dana is some massive dick. McGregor brings a shit load of money in to the UFC...for people to suggest it's dead easy for them to not slightly cave in to his demands is just weird. The guy is a cash cow you can't just feck him off, especially when it seems the majority of other fighters are incapable of promoting a fight at the moment.

People genuinely seem to get annoyed for the suggestion that UFC is a business, sure they accommodate for Conor but they have some legitimately huge fights. On this card there'd Woodley vs. Wonderboy, Joanna vs. Karolina (not even trying to spell their last names), Cerrone was meant to fight Lawler and still has a good fight, Weidman vs. Romero and Edgar vs. Who The feck's That Guy. It's hardly a load of shit fights. I appreciate people want Conor to defend a belt as well but it goes round in circles really, I'm personally gona wait til 205 is over before slating him.

Good point. The UFC is fast blurring the lines between legitimate mixed martial arts competition and fake WWE silliness due to the former WWE fighters as well as the increasingly idiotic hype shows. But it's all ok here as long as McGregor is winning.
I don't get this often passive agressive about McGregor it's as if people aren't allowed to like him. It's not "all ok here as McGregor is winning" maybe people just like the guy and are happy he is doing well? It's funny, people complain about fighters pay etc then someone legitimately makes themselves a multi millionaire from the sport and people complain again! Can't win really.

Again, if you don't like the press conference hype stuff surely you don't have to watch it? It's not like they're in the middle of the fights, you can easily watch a fight card with none of the press conferences.
 

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The correct answer of course is that Conor's jujitsu is any where from non-existent two weak to where he needs to coaches to help him stay afloat. An expert like Khabib would take him down and that would be that.
Well no one really knows how good his Jiu Jitsu is. We haven't seen much of it in his UFC career, loads are convinced he's shit at it and yet people like Ryan Hall think he's very good but who knows.

But he is a striker and one of the best around, other fighters have different strengths. His last 3 fights have been against BJJ black belts and he's won two of them, so he's not doing too badly. If he has two coaches it can only be because he feels that is the best way for him to improve that side of his game.
 

Oggmonster

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Hang on, you're a Conor fan, right?

Didn't he do exactly the same a few months ago?
Yeah fair comment. I'd say that whole debacle probably put him in line a bit as well as it showed the UFC won't bow down to his every command and kicked him off what was supposed to be their biggest card (albeit he then went on to headline the biggest card 2 fights later.)

I'm not a defender of all things McGregor for what it's worth, I've criticised him in this thread...I'm pretty sure I criticised the decision to fight Diaz again the 2nd time as well in this thread. In all honesty though I enjoy watching the guy fight and due to the fact he has ridiculously quick turn arounds on fights I don't think it's the end of the world he hasn't defended a belt yet. Like I said I'll wait and see til after 205. For what it's worth he won that belt 10 months ago, Aldo's fight with Mendes and then McGregor there was a 14 month gap so it's hardly the end of the world.

No dem was just jokes Vato.
I'd say both were empty threats to be honest. Neither of them will retire on the back of the comments...well obviously McGregor won't cos he fought since.
 

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For it to be taken seriously I'd suggest they actually have to follow through with it. At least Rory actually fecked off to Bellator. Time will tell if Aldo actually does retire, if he does good luck to him...if not he looks a bit of a dick to be honest.

The "problem" the UFC have with McGregor is whether other people can do the same. It's baffling to me people suggest they're doing something hugely wrong and how Dana is some massive dick. McGregor brings a shit load of money in to the UFC...for people to suggest it's dead easy for them to not slightly cave in to his demands is just weird. The guy is a cash cow you can't just feck him off, especially when it seems the majority of other fighters are incapable of promoting a fight at the moment.

People genuinely seem to get annoyed for the suggestion that UFC is a business, sure they accommodate for Conor but they have some legitimately huge fights. On this card there'd Woodley vs. Wonderboy, Joanna vs. Karolina (not even trying to spell their last names), Cerrone was meant to fight Lawler and still has a good fight, Weidman vs. Romero and Edgar vs. Who The feck's That Guy. It's hardly a load of shit fights. I appreciate people want Conor to defend a belt as well but it goes round in circles really, I'm personally gona wait til 205 is over before slating him.



I don't get this often passive agressive about McGregor it's as if people aren't allowed to like him. It's not "all ok here as McGregor is winning" maybe people just like the guy and are happy he is doing well? It's funny, people complain about fighters pay etc then someone legitimately makes themselves a multi millionaire from the sport and people complain again! Can't win really.

Again, if you don't like the press conference hype stuff surely you don't have to watch it? It's not like they're in the middle of the fights, you can easily watch a fight card with none of the press conferences.
And therein lies the problem. You have a hybrid sport - that is supposed to be based (at least partially) on the philosophical foundations of various martial arts, which typically have advanced ideas of humility, honor, respect, and integrity - that is now being completely subsumed with greed, fake theatre, drug cheating, and a general corrupt mindset where money is more important than the aforementioned concepts. Conor for all the money he makes the UFC, now has more power than Dana White (example: White promises Aldo-Conor 2 then completely does a 180 in favor of the MSG Conor-Alvarez fight to appease Conor), to where Dana can no longer discipline or sanction him if he gets out of control (such as not showing up for promotion obligations etc). Conor is now running the show and other fighters are frantically tripping over one another to fight on his cards for bigger pay days. There is no organizational structure or union that guarantees fighters their rights, a basic pay guarantee, profit sharing scheme, or post career head injury coverage or any of the essential things. All you have is a system where the loudest mouth attracts the biggest audience and a herdlike stampede to fight on the card where the loudest mouth is fighting. At some point, the system won't be able to sustain such a circus and the shit will hit the fan, resulting in a major shake up.
 

Pogue Mahone

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I think they point to WWE because they are more likely to show up in those rings than a boxing ring, boxing still in a insanely specialist sport, which is why you barely see people who've defined their pro lives as boxers show up, outside of teasing for cheap hype, in MMA....James Toney is about all I remember.

Off the top of my head, I know Brock, Batista, Punk, Lashley, Shamrock and Del Rio have all done both WWE and MMA to varying degrees of success. Punk and Batista metely potshot 1 offs similar to Toneys, though Batista beat some journeyman.
Boxing is a sport. MMA is a sport.

WWE isn't even a pale imitation of legitimate sports like both the above. There's no such thing as genuine competition so it doesn't matter in the slightest who fights who.

Because boxing and MMA are competitive sports, who gets to fight who is very important and the match-making should be done on merit. If they get that right, then nothing else matters. All the trash-talk and shenanigans at press conferences is just a way to sell seats. Been going on in boxing for years and the more MMA matures, the closer it will get to elite professional boxing (the good and bad aspects) It's kind of a shame that it's moving away from its roots as a slightly more noble test of two mens skills than professional boxing but hey ho, it was always going to end that way. The one remaining hurdle is ensuring MMA fighters get a much fairer cut of the purse. McGregor seems to be moving things in that direction. Good on him.
 

Zen

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Um ok, not really sure why that has much to do with anything really.

Boxing is insanely specialist in that a seasoned Boxer likely isn't going to walk into MMA and win, whereas, whether you see as a sport of not, seasoned wrestlers with amateur backgrounds have walked into the MMA and won, and hell gone even further. I'm talking people of elite level here, I know Holly Holm was a boxer and a few others probably were, but it's a different level.

Now both boxers and mixed martial artists go into the WWE world, but to actually perform, they tend to come more from the MMA side than Boxing, see Shamrock or Del Rio who were by all accounts decent performers, when Boxers come in, they box in the WWE world in a gimmick match pretty much.

I was barely talking about how matches are made, just why UFC gets WWE connections an awful lot, rather than boxing. Match making in all three comes down to politics, ego and money. Merit barely matters, until that merit wins over a majority fanbase which well leads into the money.
 

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And therein lies the problem. You have a hybrid sport - that is supposed to be based (at least partially) on the philosophical foundations of various martial arts, which typically have advanced ideas of humility, honor, respect, and integrity - that is now being completely subsumed with greed, fake theatre, drug cheating, and a general corrupt mindset where money is more important than the aforementioned concepts. Conor for all the money he makes the UFC, now has more power than Dana White (example: White promises Aldo-Conor 2 then completely does a 180 in favor of the MSG Conor-Alvarez fight to appease Conor), to where Dana can no longer discipline or sanction him if he gets out of control (such as not showing up for promotion obligations etc). Conor is now running the show and other fighters are frantically tripping over one another to fight on his cards for bigger pay days. There is no organizational structure or union that guarantees fighters their rights, a basic pay guarantee, profit sharing scheme, or post career head injury coverage or any of the essential things. All you have is a system where the loudest mouth attracts the biggest audience and a herdlike stampede to fight on the card where the loudest mouth is fighting. At some point, the system won't be able to sustain such a circus and the shit will hit the fan, resulting in a major shake up.
In fairness I'd argue the traditional UFC you seem to of preferred was full of drugs so don't get why you bring that up. They're trying to improve it now if anything and surely you see it as an improvement there?

Sports evolve, it's hardly just UFC. Lets not pretend the money hasn't also benefited the sport in ways as well. Sure you've got stuff that will piss people off (Conor here for example) but then there's positives to it as well, it's allowed the sport to expand a lot and give fighters who may not of got it a chance to get in to the "big leagues" for lack of a better term.

I think it's hard to just blame White purely. They have someone who generates huge interest whether people like the guy or not. I'd suggest more like watching him than not as he attracts huge numbers every time he fights. What would you do if you were in his position? Kick the guy out the UFC? He did punish him, he took him off the 200 card. HE had to fight again 1 day and did, Dana made the fight with Diaz and people said it was one of the best fights of the year.

You're right about the other stuff, money etc but then that's what they signed up for. Equaly someone like McGregor goes on to earn a fortune and have enough money for the rest of his life and you get annoyed with that. So he can't actually win.
 

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He turned down the fight on two weeks notice, hardly disgraceful compared to the embarrassing way Dana has treated this entire situation.
And the fight would have been at 155 if he'd taken it, which would have made no sense for him.