Nice card tonight.
Still surprised Pearson is the favorite ahead of Diego. Got Sanchez winning that one all night long.
Still surprised Pearson is the favorite ahead of Diego. Got Sanchez winning that one all night long.
The MMA thread
- Thread starter Fortitude
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Diego Sanchez is a bit of a mystery to me recently, you can put him in there with the worst fighter in the world and it will be razor thin bloodbath decision, and you could chuck him in with the best and get the same result.
true that. well see if the mistery continues...I've never been impressed with Sergio Pettis.
Only watched a bit of this fight though, how's he doing?
Only watched a bit of this fight though, how's he doing?
Nice choke there for Caraway
I'm pretty surprised that Sanchez v Pearson turned out to be boring! Pearson wouldn't move forward and Sanchez refused to attack wildly!
yep, was a bit boring, but the main event was brilliant. Very well fought... for a moment i thought the russian was gonna win it.
Pretty much one of the most disgraceful decisions you'll see in the Pearson/Sanchez fight. If you haven't seen it go and watch it. Pearson basically won every round of the fight and somehow Diego won the decision. One even scored it 30-27 in favor of Diego
No doubt Dana will come out with his stupid fecking line of "DON'T LEAVE IT IN THE HANDS OF THE JUDGES!". For the record I was massively wrong. I had Diego winning this fight without any real doubt (okay, because of a ridiculous judges decision he did), but Pearson pretty much won every round and was never in much trouble.
No doubt Dana will come out with his stupid fecking line of "DON'T LEAVE IT IN THE HANDS OF THE JUDGES!". For the record I was massively wrong. I had Diego winning this fight without any real doubt (okay, because of a ridiculous judges decision he did), but Pearson pretty much won every round and was never in much trouble.
Pretty much one of the most disgraceful decisions you'll see in the Pearson/Sanchez fight. If you haven't seen it go and watch it. Pearson basically won every round of the fight and somehow Diego won the decision. One even scored it 30-27 in favor of Diego
No doubt Dana will come out with his stupid fecking line of "DON'T LEAVE IT IN THE HANDS OF THE JUDGES!". For the record I was massively wrong. I had Diego winning this fight without any real doubt (okay, because of a ridiculous judges decision he did), but Pearson pretty much won every round and was never in much trouble.
wut? The refs gave it to him?
i skipped the official decisión because it was pretty obvious Diego lost.
That's definitely one of the worst decisions I've ever seen. Such a clear 30-27 for Pearson. Ross dealt really well with Diego, and hit him with so many body shots that Diego couldn't really charge forward like normal.
I've not seen what the reaction is to it as I'm still watching the Bendo fight, but surely everyone bar those 2 judges had it for Ross.
I've not seen what the reaction is to it as I'm still watching the Bendo fight, but surely everyone bar those 2 judges had it for Ross.
Sanchez won it 30-27 and 29-28. The other judge gave it to Pearson 30-27.
Quite a bad reaction to this one, could be looked in to and no doubt what so ever that the judge that scored that 30-27 in favor of Diego should never judge another fight. Round two consisted of Pearson knocking Sanchez down and basically dominating the round, I just can't understand how a judge scored this 30-27 for Sanchez. Sanchez being scored as the winner of the fight is bad enough but 30-27 is crazy.
Sanchez was the one moving forward, Pearson refused to, so that's aggression to Sanchez. Sanchez also controlled the octagon through moving forward, so that's octagon control to Sanchez.
So I guess that guy who gave Sanchez the 30-27 must have rated both those things very highly.
So I guess that guy who gave Sanchez the 30-27 must have rated both those things very highly.
UFC 174: Johnson vs. Bagautinov is an upcoming mixed martial arts event that is scheduled to be held on June 14, 2014, at Rogers Arena in Vancouver, Canada.[1]
Main card
Flyweight Demetrious Johnson (c) (-531) vs. Ali Bagautinov [a] (+450)
Welterweight Rory MacDonald (+123) vs. Tyron Woodley (-120)
Light Heavyweight Ryan Bader (-127) vs. Rafael Cavalcante (+118)
Heavyweight Andrei Arlovski (+114) vs. Brendan Schaub (-126)
Light Heavyweight Ryan Jimmo (+123) vs. Ovince St. Preux (-132)
Preliminary card (FX)
Welterweight Daniel Sarafian vs. Kiichi Kunimoto
Bantamweight Yves Jabouin vs. Mike Easton
Lightweight Kajan Johnson vs. Tae Hyun Bang
Preliminary card (UFC Fight Pass)
Bantamweight Roland Delorme vs. Michinori Tanaka
Lightweight Jason Saggo vs. Josh Shockley
http://www.bestfightodds.com/
Main card
Flyweight Demetrious Johnson (c) (-531) vs. Ali Bagautinov [a] (+450)
Welterweight Rory MacDonald (+123) vs. Tyron Woodley (-120)
Light Heavyweight Ryan Bader (-127) vs. Rafael Cavalcante (+118)
Heavyweight Andrei Arlovski (+114) vs. Brendan Schaub (-126)
Light Heavyweight Ryan Jimmo (+123) vs. Ovince St. Preux (-132)
Preliminary card (FX)
Welterweight Daniel Sarafian vs. Kiichi Kunimoto
Bantamweight Yves Jabouin vs. Mike Easton
Lightweight Kajan Johnson vs. Tae Hyun Bang
Preliminary card (UFC Fight Pass)
Bantamweight Roland Delorme vs. Michinori Tanaka
Lightweight Jason Saggo vs. Josh Shockley
http://www.bestfightodds.com/
I would put my money on Woodley and St. Preux.
Nah not at all. When you're getting picked off everytime you come forward there's no way you're controlling the octagon. There isn't any kind of criteria that you can score that for Diego.
A lot of journalists are calling it the worst decision in MMA history.
Is there a definition of what 'octagon control' means? I thought it meant the person who spends the most time within the octagon printed on the mat. It's a good way to get an idea of who is pushing the fight, anyway.
Yep, pretty much!!
I love Diego, usually great to watch (except his last two fights). He was very poor in his last outting and now this was just atrocious!!
There is absolutely no way, under any circumstances Diego won that fight... If I we're scoring it I'd give a UD to Pearson!!
Off the wall bonkers decision and its been mentioned above, whoever that clown was that gave it 30-27 to Diego should be banned from judging again.
As far as I am aware it essentially means a fighter who dictates where the fight "goes"... As in if a fighter scores take down and keeps busy on the mat, with transitions and ground and pound, submissions too. Or an agressive fighter dictating a standing match.
Its a bit ridiculous really, they need to define it a bit better.
Personally I think the 10 pt Must system is a joke in MMA... Sounds a bit stupid at first but I'd prefer to see a system set up where fighters start from 0 and get pts for take downs, also points for significant striking. Similar rules to Brawl for All (WWF tournament they tried to do in the Attitude era).
It'd be harder to tally pts but I think utlimately it'd cut out bad judging decisions like on Saturday.
Edit: This is from UFC's official website and given as the definiton for "Octogan Control"
- Fighting area control is judged by determining who is dictating the pace, location and position of the bout. Examples of factors to consider are countering a grappler's attempt at takedown by remaining standing and legally striking, taking down an opponent to force a ground fight, creating threatening submission attempts, passing the guard to achieve mount, and creating striking opportunities.
I'm not sure if that's the best system either, you'd end up with takedowns being scored even higher than they are now.
The main thing I'd like to see is more 10-8 rounds being given. It's crazy that a completely dominant round with multiple knockdown is mostly scored the same as a round which could be a 10-10.
The main thing I'd like to see is more 10-8 rounds being given. It's crazy that a completely dominant round with multiple knockdown is mostly scored the same as a round which could be a 10-10.
Well why not score 5pts for take down, 5 pts for knockdown. While it can be argued that a take down is easier, all it takes is 1 big haymaker to put someone in trouble. Just a thought really, I agree with your above part as well btw...
The scoring system just doesn't sit right sometimes...
Besides that, UFC are clearly going down the same road boxing with the scoring system, Countless weight divisions etc... boxing is hardly in a healthy condition, gone are the days of numerous fighters competing for the titles..
If they made the scoring system in anyway complex it would end up being even worse.
Just leave it the way it is and hope judging improves.
Just leave it the way it is and hope judging improves.
not sure doing nothing actually helps either in fairness
You really do just need to get judges who can understand MMA. I'm sure some modifications to the scoring system would be good, but in general most fans can agree who won a fight.
aye, the fans do generally... but you do still get fights that are so f'n close to call... GSP V Hendricks for example. Such a close fight, personally I gave it to GSP just about. Jones v Gus was quite close too.
Just a thought really, see how others felt about it....
Just a thought really, see how others felt about it....
I was half-joking, Sanchez was moving forward and Pearson did do nothing but retreat, but that can only be worth so much. What 'Aggression' and 'Octagon Control' amount to is too vague and leaves the door open for these baffling decisions.
I wonder what sort of instruction the judges go through, if any. In football the interpretation that is standard for refs in the EPL is at least as important as the rules themselves, for my money. I would hope that judges are shown close fights and instructed as to how one might score one fighter over the other, how they might choose whether a striker's punches or a grappler's takedowns were what won the round.
I suspect that the UFC brass discourage both 10-10 and 10-8 rounds because crowds hate a draw. If you always use 10-9 then someone is guaranteed a win. Sad to say I think the UFC is that shallow. After all, back in the beginning the UFC 'Superfights' could go to a draw and that was quickly changed because the crowds hated it. Ditto the recent Hunt-Bigfoot decision or pretty much any draw.
As far as alternate scoring systems I feel unqualified to comment, I'm sure there are other systems in other fighting competitions (Judo, Karate, etc) that are tried and tested and would likely be the best alternatives.
But I have to say I really loved it back when the fights had no time limits. Fighters went for it because they knew there was no point in staying away from your opponent for very long.
All very good points raised, You mention Pearson was retreating. But in some instances retreating is part of a fighting style, best example would be Machida who lulls his opponents in and catches them with counters. Basically Karate. I think Pearson was retreating to some degree because he didn't want to get into a slug fest which is fair enough. He picked Diego off with ease with jabs. Hit but not be hit... GSP in his latter fights was vilified for this (which is a joke, its supposed to be a sport) becoming more and more like WWE with each passing event.
Also you suggest Karate / Judo as alternate options to use as scoring system... Definitely should be looked into.
I really think UFC should look into alternate options, it's still reasonably early in their product to change things up, they could test new rules out on smaller cards like the Fight Night cards and if all goes well roll them out onto the UFC PPV's!
Oh Chael...
Ffs.
I agree with this - always bemuses me that you will essentially never see lower than a 10-8.
I would be quite happy to see a dominant round scored as a 10-8 or even a 10-7 or 6. The system at the moment you may as well do away with points and just decide who won each round.
The Pearson-Sanchez decision was absolutely disgusting. I thought Pearson had pretty much a perfect fight - he picked Sanchez apart and refused to get drawn into a brawl - he stayed technical and picked his punches.
fecking idiot.
It's times like this that really turns me off this sport
Hey @Burndogg haven't seen you in ages
It's times like this that really turns me off this sport
Hey @Burndogg haven't seen you in ages
Most people have no problem cheating, it would seem.
Watching old UFCs I'm like, "Steroids, clean, steroids, steroids, clean, steroids..." just by looking at some of the absolutely ridiculous muscle definition. I mean Ken Shamrock at UFC 1, 3 and even more so at UFC 5 it's so obvious it's painful.
Watching old UFCs I'm like, "Steroids, clean, steroids, steroids, clean, steroids..." just by looking at some of the absolutely ridiculous muscle definition. I mean Ken Shamrock at UFC 1, 3 and even more so at UFC 5 it's so obvious it's painful.
@Randall Flagg hey bud, I hardly get posting because reception in work is cack. Get tickets to UFC Dublin?
Sonnen wasn't trying to cheat though.
He's appealing it and hopefully it goes well for him. I think people automatically see "Sonnen fails drug test" and think he's a cheat or some moron. That's not the case and people need to read up the details of it to understand what's actually gone on.
He's appealing it and hopefully it goes well for him. I think people automatically see "Sonnen fails drug test" and think he's a cheat or some moron. That's not the case and people need to read up the details of it to understand what's actually gone on.
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Chael Sonnen's excuse for UFC 175 failed drug test is lame, career-threatening
(Excerpts) Sonnen tested positive for two banned substances, Anastrozole and Clomiphene. Both are on the World Anti-Doping Agency's 2014 prohibited list, for in-competition and out-of-competition use.
On the Fox Sports 1 interview, Sonnen attempted several times to say the drugs are legal for use out-of-competition. However, on WADA's site, it says in all bold face capital letters, "SUBSTANCES AND METHODS PROHIBITED AT ALL TIMES (IN- AND OUT-OF-COMPETITION)". Below that is a list of substances, of which both Anastrozole and Clomiphene are included.
Travis Tygart, the CEO of the United States Anti-Doping Agency, said there is no ambiguity. Neither Anastrozole or Clomephine are permitted at any time.
"Both of those are prohibited in- and out-of-competition," Tygart told Yahoo Sports. "The reason why is because they can maximize the effects of testosterone use or other anabolic steroids use, as well as in and of themselves providing a performance-enhancing benefit."
Later, WADA has sections that list substances that are banned in-competition but which are permitted out-of-competition.
"Yes they can [test me 24-7-365]," Sonnen told Hill regarding the Nevada commission's right to test him. "But there is a distinction drawn. It doesn't matter if you're talking NCAA Division I, the IOC or this commission. There has always been a distinction between game day and out of competition. And when you're out of competition, if you're not on anabolic; if you're not on illegal substances; if you're not a steroid or a performance enhancer of any kind, that is acceptable."
He's wrong and the WADA rules clearly denote that. But here is the problem Sonnen faces: Even if the drugs are permitted out-of-competition, Sonnen was in-competition when he tested positive.
He was licensed to fight at UFC 175 on May 13. On May 23, he was given an unannounced, random test by the Nevada commission, which it had the perfect right to do since he is licensed and since he had a fight coming up.
Sonnen may try to argue that he took the drugs prior to being licensed, and that may be. But there is no gray area, as Sonnen said there is, in the rules. It is the burden of the licensed athlete to provide a clean test whenever tested by the commission, whether or not there is a fight.
Sonnen, though, was licensed AND was tested on May 23 shortly after his news conference at the MGM Grand Garden to announce the main card of UFC 175.
The rest of his comments were nothing more than red herrings that were used in an attempt to obfuscate the real issue.
It's entirely understandable why Sonnen would want to be able to father a child with his wife. But if he planned to do that given his medical situation, he should have held off on applying for the license until qualified medical personnel told him he was clear.
He did not wait and made the laughable excuse that there was no way to find out the rules. Both Nevada's rules and WADA's rules are easily accessible online; further, the commission has repeatedly told athletes to call if they ever have any doubt whether a substance they want to take is legal according to its rules.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/chael-...st-is-lame--career-threatening-004541484.html
Nope, I was considering it. But really card isnt strong enough for me to make the effort
I also read those two drugs are taken by people coming off steroids to help normalize their readings for getting clean tests.
But I agree it's not as bad as being caught taking steroids directly, but ignorance of the rules is a poor excuse and no excuse at all for being on performance enhancing drugs.
But I agree it's not as bad as being caught taking steroids directly, but ignorance of the rules is a poor excuse and no excuse at all for being on performance enhancing drugs.
Tito Ortiz KO slams Evan Tanner at UFC 30, Zuffa's first show.
Chuck Liddell KOs Kevin Randleman at UFC 31
Then thing is the rules are the problem. If this wasn't happening to Chael and to a less controversial character there would be outrage by the fans. Dana came out in support of Chael, but didn't do anywhere near enough and Chael himself wasn't clear enough about how ridiculous this situation is in his interview on Fox.
This is being treated by most as a typical steroid case, but it's totally unique and all it does is demonstrate that no reasonable rules exist for situations like this.
Whether people like it or not, TRT was legal and Chael was using it. They then changed the rules and made it illegal. However, they didn't put in place any new rules for those coming off TRT. This is where the problems is and it's not being acknowledged sufficiently.
Chael genuinely hasn't done much, if anything wrong here given the totally unique circumstances. You can't come off TRT and not do a PCT (the drugs he used are totally in line with this.) However, you can't inform the commission that you are using banned drugs! Yet many people are saying Chael should have informed them. That would be like calling the FA and saying you are using an illegal substance. The best thing Chael (and Dan Henderson must have done this) could have done, was a PCT on the quiet, which is what he did. Unfortunately he got randomly tested and was found positive for drugs which bizarrely prove that he was complying with the new rules! It really is that crazy. The drugs he was caught doing actually demonstrate that he was complying with the TRT ban! They don't enhance his performance. They aren't cheating.
People keep saying he should have informed the commission in advance, but that is bad idea. The truth is the commission should have been aware of this problem when they banned TRT. You can't give out these exemptions, suddenly change your mind and then leave those who took them out to dry, which is exactly what is happening to Chael. If it was happening to a more sympathetic character than Chael, there would be a lot of anger about this, but because it's Chael, half the fans don't even want to understand what has happened and just label him a drugs cheat. If it was Dan Henderson who had been caught, you can bet 90% of fans would have taken the time to understand what has happened and would rightly have a lot of sympathy for him. I totally understand fans not liking the TRT exemptions, but to then condemn someone for taking the correct medication for coming off TRT is plain nuts. They should be condemning the commission for not having a contingency for this.
Well first of all, he has already failed a drug test the first time he fought Silva. His testosterone levels were crazily high then so it's already been proven he's a cheat, why believe anything he says this time around. Secondly, If he was using banned substances then he shouldn't have been putting himself forward for any fights.