Yeah, I'm sure it's partly because I'm a snowflake, but I wish they would use more sensitive wording and can't bear to think what it must be like for the family.Just absolutely horrible. There’s something so dehumanising about the phrase “human remains”. It conjures awful imagery and I cannot begin to imagine what it’s like for family members to hear that. I hope it was painless bless herRIP
The murder of Sarah Everard | Couzens sentenced to a whole-life order
- Thread starter VeevaVee
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This blows my mind, again, not doubting or disbelieving ether of you, but its just so far out of my experience it blows my mind. I live in a small sleepy market town and this sort of thing is almost, not entirely but almost unheard of!
He was previously done for indecent exposure, that’s the same as that Polish guy that murdered the girl and dumped her in the lake a few months ago. I’d believe he’s probably just a twisted feck that’s been getting away with it for years then took it to far.
Yes, all those I know well.
It ranges from groped or grabbed or rubbed up against at gigs or on transport through to rapes and abuse as children.
It shocked me too and it is only in the last half decade I became aware of the extent of it. I became single and, for some reason, this seemed to create an environment where a few close friends opened up to me. Subsequently, it's came up in conversation with several others and, without exception, they have all been assaulted and mostly in appallingly severe ways.
The most depressing part about it is that they all, in varying ways, just learn to live with it. This issue is endemic.
Yeah I don't think I properly realised how common it was until a few years ago.
Two of the individuals came from small rural areas. In one of the individual's cases the worst occurred there.
ok. Bit scant on the truth there.
Nobody has been charged with anything yet. He remains in custody and is still being questioned. I would be surprised if the entire 72 hours in custody isn’t used up before any charges are officially put on him.
As I’ve said, I’m just playing Devil’s advocate because I hate hearing people on the outside giving opinions on what should happen based on the snippets provided by the media.
From the outside, it seems fairy compelling that he’s involved. Where his involvement starts and finishes and how deep it is, is anyone’s guess
Ditto. Ten years ago I'd have assumed it was a not uncommon but relatively minority issue.
Christ thats depressing! I despair of humanity some days, I really do
Awful news . Really saddening.
It's quite depressing when you think women need to worry about going out for a walk/jog/anywhere after the sun goes down. As a man I've never had that worry and that's not down to confidence or any personality trait. It's because I'm a man. I'd also back up @Fingeredmouse on his quote, I don't know one woman I know including ex's, family members, friends or my current partner that hasn't experienced sexual harassment/assault.
. Really saddening.It's quite depressing when you think women need to worry about going out for a walk/jog/anywhere after the sun goes down. As a man I've never had that worry and that's not down to confidence or any personality trait. It's because I'm a man. I'd also back up @Fingeredmouse on his quote, I don't know one woman I know including ex's, family members, friends or my current partner that hasn't experienced sexual harassment/assault.
That’s awful, must be so frustrating to have to put up with that shit on a regular basis.
It’s been eye opening reading how often women have to deal with this sort of crap from men. Something needs to change but I’m not at all sure what.
Not sexually harassing women would be a start, but it is preaching to the converted most of time. The people that do these things aren't the type to read and learn about the shift in attitude on Twitter, etc...
I’d have hoped that would go without saying but yes unfortunately I don’t see those sorts of people changing. Attitudes to women in general need a major shift. Social media doesn’t help either.
I was groped by the boss of a cafe I worked at when I was a very young teen. He was in his 40s, I was 13. I looked like a little kid. That was the first time, there have been others (the father of a schoolfriend was lewd and lascivious, a driving instructor was handsy, a senior manager at work grabbed hold of me and other women in the lift, it goes on and on).
I agree that if you ask a cross-section of women of all ages, the vast majority will have had some sort of unwanted and unwarranted attention from men.
I think there are a lot of men who wouldn't engage in harassment but also wouldn't call out other guys (particularly their friends) who do. That's probably where "the converted" could do more. Particularly as pressure from their friends would be more effective in stopping someone from behaving badly than reading people complaining about it on twitter or whatever. Nobody likes having their friends round on them.
I can definitely remember times when I was younger where friends of mine were being drunk arseholes to women thinking it was harmless and I didn't call them out on it in a way I would now as an actual adult. Yet on something like drink driving say, I would have called them out at the time because I had been so conditioned to do so by years of road-safety campaigns being lodged into my brain.
I'm sorry that happened to you Penna. That's awful.
I share your rage, mate. As a landlord I see it all the time and it disgusts me.
I spent the first year banning so many locals because they were sexist, racist or homophobic. But three years down the line and it's still present at times .
Just before we closed for the last lockdown I had to ban one of my best regulars because he and another bloke were sat rating my bar staff and waitresses on the order they would feck them, and on their arses. The worst part is they told one of them when she came to serve them drinks.
I wanted to kill him when they told me (one in tears) it took everything I have to just ask him to find somewhere else to drink rather than putting him through the window.
As sad as it is, we are a long way from where many of us think we are when it comes to combatting these issues. Some of the shit I have read on Twitter this morning is unfeckingbelievable. Women bringing this on themselves for being feminists and wanting equal rights and not observing the natural order of things in knowing their place. FML.
Yeah I do think being pressured by your mates is a good way to do it. I've definitely seen a shift in some of my WhatsApp groups with regards to people's attitudes to things.
In my teens I had a mate do the exact same thing to girls and I whilst I never ever did it myself (always found it letchy) I would laugh along as he did it. It was easier to go along with it than challenge it, especially at that age.
It baffles me that someone hears about a woman being murdered and their first comment is about what she apparently 'did wrong'. Like how the feck are you automatically having a go at her instead of, oh I don't know... the actual person who killed her.
It's like if I went up to someone like that and punched them in the face and then said "Oh well that's your fault for not taking self defense classes".
I know. I'm absolutely astounded to be honest. It's insane how people could even be trying to justify it. I think truthfully, it shows how fragile many men's egos are and how they struggle with women who are proud to be women and not just sex slaves and housewives. They can't handle not being in control. For those of us who love smart, intelligent women and love the confidence, sadly there are those who see it as a threat to their masculinity and see it as going against their perceived 'natural order'
Agree. It's been a real eye-opener for me listening to girlfriends talk about being harassed. One had three guys crowd her in the middle of the day on a busy street, another was followed one time in a car on her way to the gym. Obviously makes you think how common it is and is utterly infuriating.
It's appalling and not just common...it is ubiquitous.
Thanks Solius, I didn't suffer any mental trauma, it's just looking back that you see how bad it was (the cafe manager was definitely a paedophile). We were more innocent at that age when I was young and we just accepted things that happened to us.
Perhaps that he was more of a guard means he’s less likely to know how to get away with that kind of thing? Not sure he’d have been dealing with cases like a detective? Pure speculation. Sure some of coppers on here could shine some light on it.
Yup, usually officers who end up in a DPG role tend to have taken a path very much away from investigatory policing and go down the more physical policing roles..So their skills at a more complex crime solving level will be very basic.
Went to twitter to check on any developments, was treated to a wave of arguments about some #notallmen bollocks. Should have known better really.
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and 99.9% of those 'weirdos' are men. how do morons like that not see that this is exactly a pattern of male behaviour?
I think what makes this doubly worse is that the suspect is a police officer. He's in a position of trust, in a position where a woman who feels scared would turn to him for help. It's sickening. Who knows, he could have even approached her by identifying himself as a police officer in order to gain her trust.
Ya in terms of things men who aren't creeps can do to make things better (or at least not make things worse), forever ditching the "not all men" horseshit would be an easy start.
That's assuming the oh-so-defensive men who feel the need to make that point aren't creeps of course. Which, well....
Whoever that is sounds like a cnut. I was a bit confused why male behaviour is being brought up in relation to a murder case, but I'm guessing it's because of weird dickheads blaming her for being alone.
That plus also the fact that seemingly most/all women instinctively feel they need to act certain ways when just going about their daily lives to try and avoid being targeted. It’s just so messed up.
Yeah it's fecked. Not sure how it's solved either. Harassment probably can be to an extent, with better education, but anything worse is surely much more difficult.
I worked in the field of community safety where I did a lot of work with Victim Support.
The Chief Exec at the time became a friend.
One of the conversations I had with him revolved around partner abuse and controlling behaviour being a massive issue amongst police officers but it was not talked about and any attempts to raise it were not allowed as funding for these organisations came through the police.
One of my cousins was married to a police officer (now divorced) and he was abusive and controlling. She had his inspectors number and was told to ring him and not anyone else when he was abusive. The inspector then would "talk" to him.
I have to say, I think some of the rhetoric around this incident doesn't really make sense in the context of it. How do you mitigate for a murderous policeman, how is that solvable in any era? Clearly women have a lot more to worry about, and men are usually the ones perpetrating these horrible crimes, but I don't see how the world can get to a stage where women don't have to worry about these things, when walking alone at night.
I agree with you, but I think the rhetoric came about due to victim blaming before the perpetrator was identified ("she should have done this" "why is she wearing x"), primarily on Twitter. When I've discussed this incident, it's not been something mentioned at all, but it seems to be on Twitter.
I think another conversation is why people give so much importance to Twitter opinions, and why it's so propagated.
He would have gotten knocked the feck out. Not saying your gf can't defend herself plus there's plenty of other variables why one wouldn't. I constantly tell my son if I ever hear that you've disrespect any woman you'll have me to deal with. He's never exhibited any traits as someone who would but I tell him anyway. Thank God he's growing to respect everyone and not just women.
Nobody is really saying it could have been prevented but I think it's brought up a lot of things for women who have probably felt the fear Sarah did that night but luckily had nothing come of it. It's important to get the message out to men that even when they bizarrely think they're 'just' being complimentary it can come across as creepy and scary for women, especially if they're alone.
I do think technology could help try and prevent this going forward though. I know there is an app you keep your finger on and if it comes off the police are called, and also the Hollie Guard one on the thread note. Perhaps something on an Apple watch that activates when it senses an unexpectedly raised pulse? Starts recording audio and transmitting GPS and if it hears screams/shouting/violence, etc.. it calls the police and emergency contacts.
She actually shouted at him that he was a creep and started making a load of noise (I was at home at the time). Apparently everyone on the street just looked at her and didn't say or do anything.
There was a Facebook post in one of our local groups recently where a girl posted a warning to others that she was walking home when a guy pulled up his car alongside her. He got out and started trying to chat her up, asking for her number, etc... and she politely said she wasn't interested numerous times but he wouldn't leave her alone.
One of the first replies to that post was a guy saying "he was being nice and complimenting you, why don't you just treat him like a human being and have a conversation with him".
That's the attitude that still seems prevalent. They for some reason cannot see why a girl would be scared by that at night on their own. I replied to the guy telling him it was fecking creepy and that the OP (girl) owed nobody anything and is perfectly entitled to be left alone, not to mention we're in a pandemic ffs.
One of the first replies to that post was a guy saying "he was being nice and complimenting you, why don't you just treat him like a human being and have a conversation with him".
That's the attitude that still seems prevalent. They for some reason cannot see why a girl would be scared by that at night on their own. I replied to the guy telling him it was fecking creepy and that the OP (girl) owed nobody anything and is perfectly entitled to be left alone, not to mention we're in a pandemic ffs.