In relation to the debt question. And so it remains.
The opportunism of MUST during Rooneygate.
- Thread starter Nick 0208 Ldn
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
Has Ten Hag been sacked yet? We're not sure and we hope not, but it's looking more likely as the days pass.
Who should replace him and why is it taking so long to make a decision?
You're intentionally misrepresenting what he said by taking it out of context. Or you're just too thick to realize it.
Look, it's immaterial when Rooney first wanted away -- the topic of this thread is whether or not Rooney wanted away as some kind of consequence of the Glazer ownership (or if you're going with the lunatic fringe - as a protest against the Glazer ownership).
Having decided how you feel about that issue, then there's the question whether or not Rooney was justified in handling the issue the way he did -- going public with wanting away in the middle of bleeding October.
As stated multiple times upthread -- in my opinion Rooney wanting to leave has feck all to do with the Glazers; even if that was the case it was a shitehouse move to announce it now, and I'm beyond dissapointed with the way MUST handled this issue.
Then I spammed a bit to cheer myself up. Sorry!
Does anyone really care about what MUST have to say anymore? They're an utter joke.
I care because I think it's important that there is a voice in the media that represents us fairly and acurately.
Should we have a vote?
Problem is, when they go on TV and talk they are the 'voice of the United fans'. Even though it appears a whole of the fans don't agree with them.
MUFF: Get in today!
So, when/where do we sign up?Manchester United Fans Foundation
Edit: Will Diver be involved?
It would also help if the BBC website didn't write entire articles based around what MUST say and pretend that it is a credible source of news.
I pay my facking licence fee for that shit!
There's a place for you in MUFF
Don'tShould we have a vote?
I've been trying all night to get a mod to make a poll about how many of us feel MUST represent us MUFF bleeds red.
Oh damn.
I am proposing my own group...
Manchester UNited Collective Harmony.
Perhaps we could merge?
Manchester UNited Collective Harmony.
Perhaps we could merge?
Only once a month though.
Sorry to sidetrack this thread but can anyone explain to me why Rooney is getting stick for saying something that he wanted some assurances we would be looking to buy some of the best players as part of signing a new contract. United have never been like Real in buying star after star but we have always been prepared to buy the best or close to it as well as developing players with big potential. I have not read Rooney's statement or really got into the issue yet but the criticism of him for this seems abit strange.
Before getting into this I agree with what Fergie says on potential in that quote on Roo and Ron not being good enough fully.
I ask because Rooney is not the first player to want some assurances on this matter when it comes to playing for United and in all honesty Fergie has always agreed with this sentiment in the past himself. Take Eric's retirement. The two reasons he gave Fergie for retiring was frustration with his name being marketed so vigorously and the lack of ambition in bringing the best players to United. This is in Fergie's own autobioaphy and he goes onto give the players he tried to get before the current pre Keano wage structure stopped him from getting(Desailly and Batistuta are two examples). If it was a concern of Eric's and one reason he retired I can't see why Rooney is getting stick 13 years later for having similar concerns.
Keane as well had this discussion with Fergie when he signed his 52 a week contract in late 99 and Fergie built on the Stam and Yorke deals(which were a change in tact for United) to eventually get to clinching Veron, signing Ruud and also pursuing Thurmam with real vigour. This was the type of ambition he promised Keane in late 99 as well as the wage increase and in fairness he delivered it.
I can honestly see why this might be abit of concern to Rooney. He's gone from having Ronaldo and Tevez alongside him and to play with one of the best squads in the world to see United buy little known players with potential, get in the odd freebie and one proven Premiership player capable of improving vastly. It's something that he's right to consider when signing his next contract alongside everything else such as wages, location, Fergie's track record and everything else.
Before getting into this I agree with what Fergie says on potential in that quote on Roo and Ron not being good enough fully.
I ask because Rooney is not the first player to want some assurances on this matter when it comes to playing for United and in all honesty Fergie has always agreed with this sentiment in the past himself. Take Eric's retirement. The two reasons he gave Fergie for retiring was frustration with his name being marketed so vigorously and the lack of ambition in bringing the best players to United. This is in Fergie's own autobioaphy and he goes onto give the players he tried to get before the current pre Keano wage structure stopped him from getting(Desailly and Batistuta are two examples). If it was a concern of Eric's and one reason he retired I can't see why Rooney is getting stick 13 years later for having similar concerns.
Keane as well had this discussion with Fergie when he signed his 52 a week contract in late 99 and Fergie built on the Stam and Yorke deals(which were a change in tact for United) to eventually get to clinching Veron, signing Ruud and also pursuing Thurmam with real vigour. This was the type of ambition he promised Keane in late 99 as well as the wage increase and in fairness he delivered it.
I can honestly see why this might be abit of concern to Rooney. He's gone from having Ronaldo and Tevez alongside him and to play with one of the best squads in the world to see United buy little known players with potential, get in the odd freebie and one proven Premiership player capable of improving vastly. It's something that he's right to consider when signing his next contract alongside everything else such as wages, location, Fergie's track record and everything else.
MUNCH the MUFF -- when modern football gets you down!
MUFF MUNCH -- a mouthful for justice!
(as in actual LOLing) at 'MUFF bleeds red'. Up there with 'Paul Stockport'. (Moriarty's name for Paul Stretford)And regarding whether or not I care about what MUST have to say -- of course I do. They've been the focal point for all of us wanting fan ownership (in whatever form) & the anti-Glazer campaigns. Having them spinning the Rooney story along the lines of the vulgar PR campaign from the Rooney camp is beyond disgusting for anyone still trying to believe in them as a serious vehicle for supporter influence at United.
In my opinion they haven't just shot themselves in the foot -- they've blasted their bleeding head off. And I mean it when I say this hurts me more than Rooney's attitude.
Very close to an og there.
I was a member of SU what feels like ages ago and kept tabs with MUST in the earlier part of its existence, however the type of organisation that operated then, its style if you will, seems different to the one that speaks as the opposition today.
And i can only echo what a previous poster has said, the media put a lot of emphasis on what they say and when they act as they have, well...you'd rather not have that sense that you are being automatically associated with it.
I heard that there is to be an anti-Glazer march being held in a few weeks, presumably spearheaded by MUST. Although going by some of their remarks even if the Glazers had never arrived and we had fan ownership, they would advocate us carrying on like Real Madrid or City. We might not be in this mire but cooking up some other variety nonetheless.
People have said that they believe MUST remain faithful to the core aims only there methods are the problem. So whilst the desire for victory is shared, we'd rather our army didn't commit a whole host of crimes along the way. If enough of us had the time and could agree on a vision, we should frag the officers [so to speak]. Until then...
And i can only echo what a previous poster has said, the media put a lot of emphasis on what they say and when they act as they have, well...you'd rather not have that sense that you are being automatically associated with it.
I heard that there is to be an anti-Glazer march being held in a few weeks, presumably spearheaded by MUST. Although going by some of their remarks even if the Glazers had never arrived and we had fan ownership, they would advocate us carrying on like Real Madrid or City. We might not be in this mire but cooking up some other variety nonetheless.
People have said that they believe MUST remain faithful to the core aims only there methods are the problem. So whilst the desire for victory is shared, we'd rather our army didn't commit a whole host of crimes along the way. If enough of us had the time and could agree on a vision, we should frag the officers [so to speak]. Until then...
The main difference is that Eric and Roy had to endure playing a few seasons with squads not up to standard, Rooney has only played one season and he's complaining. Also, he said he wanted a lifetime contract in April, has the situation changed so much in 4 months that he suddenly feels we're no longer able to win trophies?
He's just after the money, and his PR team has just made use of the Glazer situation to give him an excuse to make him look less like a cnut.
I just hope, that when he leaves(Rooney), SAF goes out and buy's 2 or 3 of the very best players that money can buy. I have a feeling that this might happen.
Good post with plenty of valid points. Although in fairness Wayne was wrong to base the decision on not to renew his contract on the failure to get firm assurances on improving the squad.
No club unless you have the rich history of Real Madrid, mystical allure of Barcelona and the gulf money fields of Manchester City can offer assurances with certainty like that. It requires a combination of all of those three plus plenty of underhand conduct in pursuit of players to get every player a club wants.
If anyone believes that Rooney is justified in disrespecting the club and SAF as he has done because he is only following Cantona and Keane's example then they're wrong, Rooney is wrong, just as Cantona and Keane were both wrong before him.
What the feck does Rooney want? (hypothetical question, we know he wants £250k a week)
It was only 25 months ago that we spent £30m on Berbatov. 16 months ago we spent nearly £20m on Valencia to replace Ronaldo. We've since signed two excellent looking prospects in £10m Smalling and £6m Hernandez. There's a fortune in the bank ready for when Giggs and Scholes both retire and on top of that we have an amazing history of creating from raw materials some of the world's best players; consistent, major trophy winning players.
Rooney spits on all this citing lack of ambition as his justification?
feck off, you fecking ignorant scouse coatto!
I never want to see the prick in a United shirt again; go poison City's already poisonous changing-room for all i care, you thick cnut.
What the feck does Rooney want? (hypothetical question, we know he wants £250k a week)
It was only 25 months ago that we spent £30m on Berbatov. 16 months ago we spent nearly £20m on Valencia to replace Ronaldo. We've since signed two excellent looking prospects in £10m Smalling and £6m Hernandez. There's a fortune in the bank ready for when Giggs and Scholes both retire and on top of that we have an amazing history of creating from raw materials some of the world's best players; consistent, major trophy winning players.
Rooney spits on all this citing lack of ambition as his justification?
feck off, you fecking ignorant scouse coatto!
I never want to see the prick in a United shirt again; go poison City's already poisonous changing-room for all i care, you thick cnut.
Because he doesn't have a right to have assurances on the squad. That line is something I'd expect a manager to come out with, but a player? It's a sign of someone who thinks he's truly bigger than both SAF and the club.
I'm behind MUST, but it's gonna be a bit sickening watching them jump on the Rooney bandwagon when we all know that's bullshit. He's leaving for money.
There's a number of completely valid reasons he's getting stick, and to be honest the only surprising thing is that some people can't seem to understand it. It's nothing like with Keane or Cantona.
Firstly, his statement doesn't tally up with reality. Not even in the most basic of senses. For example, he claims he only decided not to sign a contract last week, but Ferguson's been leaving him out of the team with this non existent ankle injury since well before then, so that's an obvious lie. Unless you believe Ferguson was lying on Tuesday, and furthermore just decided to pretend Rooney was injured as some kind of completely unrelated joke? Righto
Also, if you decide the club lacks ambition, you wouldn't go about reacting to it in this way. It didn't suddenly become an issue overnight, and become such a serious one you have to cut all ties with the club completely and immediately, fall out with the manager, and alienate yourself from team mates and fans beyond the point of return, despite being three months from the transfer window? That doesn't even begin to make any sense, and obviously isn't what's actually happened. Rooney may be a few braincells short of a braincell, and have seriously short sighted advisors, but come on now.
Secondly, even if that is what Roney really believes. I mean, it clearly isn't, or at least isn't the cause of this, which actually makes this next part even worse, but, pretending for a second he did actually believe the club lacks ambition and isn't up to standard....You don't come out and say publicly "this club isn't good enough for me anymore" before you've even left. Not ever. He's shit all over all his team mates, manager and fans, and basically said he's outgrown and become too important for the club. I mean wow Wayne, you've actually outgrown Manchester United as an entity...well fecking done. Actually, don't bother going to another club at all, just ascend directly to the footballing heavens where Sir Alex Ferguson, Paul Scholes, Ryan Giggs, Bobby Charlton, Dennis Law etc. can all worship your obvious superiority as a footballing institution on a daily basis...give me a fecking break.
and thirdly, just the sheer unbelievable cheek to release a statement making a point of your upmost respect for Sir Alex Ferguson, and appreciation of his ambition and genius, and yet in the very same statement effectively accuse him of being a liar and shit at his job. fecking hell, yet again.
I guess the point is, whether the club is in good hands ownership wise is a fair concern, but using that concern to jump on the bandwagon with some plank who's just gone out of his way to shit all over the manager, team, and everything that is still good about the club in the eyes of the fans, just because he's trying to hide behind your concerns as an excuse, is ill advised at best. Why are MUST run by such morons?
I want the Glazers out and I Don't care what methods those trying to achieve this use
There will always be a few nutters who feel this way, don't let it get you down, man.
MUST Bashing
This thread is for those who see the need to get rid of the Glazers and put a more desirable ownership structure in place, but have a problem with MUST's way of going about things (which I think it's safe to say represents a majority of this forum).
It is not for debating the rights and wrongs of the Glazers - there's more than enough of that already. If you don't think we need to get rid of them, this thread is probably not for you.
There's a lot of "I'm thinking of leaving MUST" / "I don't think they speak for me anymore" in this forum (and outside of it too - I've heard similar at work etc).
Well, I have a simple question: You do realise that MUST is a democratic organisation, right? If you don't like where it's going, why not do something about it? Put forward some options? God knows, judging by this forum you wouldn't struggle to garner support!
Personally I'd vote for somebody who pledged to think a bit more before piling in on every half-opportunity. Certain issues have been handed very crassly recently.
I don't agree, however, with the "they are always emailing me telling me what to think"... give yourself a bit more credit for free thought!
This is just what lobbying organisations do - I also get similar emails from organisations such as searchlight, some of which are on the level of "Nick Griffin was today seen failing to help an old lady across the road!". In much the same way as MUST, these emails can be over the top... there are more than enough legitimate things to bash Nick Griffin with without resorting to this level, but sometimes they overstep the mark in their enthusiasm, it's just part of the game.
If you don't like this whole approach of frequent emails and media briefings, then there is of course an alternative organisation which represents the fans and opposes the Glazers - IMUSA.
What's that... you'd forgotten about IMUSA? They are marginalised, impotent and irrelevant?
Oh.
Maybe they should try sending out some sensationalist emails...
This thread is for those who see the need to get rid of the Glazers and put a more desirable ownership structure in place, but have a problem with MUST's way of going about things (which I think it's safe to say represents a majority of this forum).
It is not for debating the rights and wrongs of the Glazers - there's more than enough of that already. If you don't think we need to get rid of them, this thread is probably not for you.
There's a lot of "I'm thinking of leaving MUST" / "I don't think they speak for me anymore" in this forum (and outside of it too - I've heard similar at work etc).
Well, I have a simple question: You do realise that MUST is a democratic organisation, right? If you don't like where it's going, why not do something about it? Put forward some options? God knows, judging by this forum you wouldn't struggle to garner support!
Personally I'd vote for somebody who pledged to think a bit more before piling in on every half-opportunity. Certain issues have been handed very crassly recently.
I don't agree, however, with the "they are always emailing me telling me what to think"... give yourself a bit more credit for free thought!
This is just what lobbying organisations do - I also get similar emails from organisations such as searchlight, some of which are on the level of "Nick Griffin was today seen failing to help an old lady across the road!". In much the same way as MUST, these emails can be over the top... there are more than enough legitimate things to bash Nick Griffin with without resorting to this level, but sometimes they overstep the mark in their enthusiasm, it's just part of the game.
If you don't like this whole approach of frequent emails and media briefings, then there is of course an alternative organisation which represents the fans and opposes the Glazers - IMUSA.
What's that... you'd forgotten about IMUSA? They are marginalised, impotent and irrelevant?
Oh.
Maybe they should try sending out some sensationalist emails...
Some good points but surely this could have gone in the other thread?
IMO, there are quite a few differences with the Rooney situation. He has full well known the situation of the club, the transfer policy. Even when he first signed for us, we hardly set the world alight with our transfer policy and we didn't exactly have the "best squad" int he world.
Remember that the only reason he ended playing with a "superstar" in Ronaldo was not because we bought Ronaldo the BPITW, but we DEVELOPED him. So for Rooney to come out with this hog wash now is very misleading and ironic as Rooney himself was bought for his potential. If he felt this way for a while, why did he come out and say he wanted to sign a lifetime contract just a few months ago?
The whole U-turn from Rooney is nothing short of betrayal. The investment in the squad excuse is just all too convenient atm.
The other thread has become ridiculous and is in no way constructive.
Yup - I was intending to post it in there until I logged on this morning and took a look at it!
Also, the other thread is meant to be about the specific handling of the Rooney issue, which is only one part of what I'm referring to. This relates back to various other MUST related issues that have been debated on here over the last few months.
Anyway, in the other thread there would be too many of the minority who are just opposed to MUST on principal chipping in, trying to undermine the whole point.
This thread will go the same way - it is inevitable!
There were some jokes thrown about yesterday about the need for a new organisation to represent the fans (Manchester United Fans Foundation
) - perhaps this is what we need?Waste of bandwidth. Already a good discussion going on in the other thread about this.
i think most on here whilst not always agreeing with MUST´s tactics, know deep down that they have the clubs best interests at heart.
Nice!There were some jokes thrown about yesterday about the need for a new organisation to represent the fans (Manchester United Fans Foundation
But what would MUFF do that IMUSA and MUST don't?
It wouldn't be long before they did something that people didn't like, resulting in MUFF diving in people's opinions.
(Sorry
)