Nice choice for my team pic
The Second RedCafe Sheep Draft
- Thread starter Skizzo
- Start date
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
He got in another defender so he can comfortably play a number of formations now.
i would prefer tomorrow evening at around 5 in the evening GMT. Is that ok?
Nice choice for my team pic
it came up under the google images...from one of the old redcafe all time drafts.@paceme in 2013
Heading to bed. Let me know when everyone wants their matches.
Thursday-Sunday are your available options. 2 a day max. Monday will be the absolute latest if you can't get anything before then.
Thursday-Sunday are your available options. 2 a day max. Monday will be the absolute latest if you can't get anything before then.
Can you start it tomorrow a bit earlier? Or else I'll miss the start.. Maybe around 3 GMT?
That would be me
BTW, @Edgar Allan Pillow, there's no inconsistency in Schuster holding so many roles. It's a common thing with football geniuses that when their body starts giving they reinvent themselves.
Early Schuster was electric, and you would prefer him as a Kaká of sorts. It's really worthwhile to watch the 1980 Euros, he destroyed teams with his runs and how he brought others in play at pace. Remarkable for such a young rookie in an experienced team. That was the upside of his arrogance. He was confident enough to not care he was the rookie in the side. He was brave enough that he didn't fear failure, a usual problem with geniuses who go into hiding when things get tough hoping someone else gets the flak and that their ego remains intact.
That was the player he was in his early days at Barca as well, until Maradona arrived. By then, he had been butchered and forced to miss WC '82 (which I've no doubt Germany would have won). He was coming back from a career-ending injury, his knee wouldn't allow him to turn the way he used to, his repentización was gone. Now, someone of his arrogance may have wanted to outshine the other wonderkid, but he wasn't stupid either: he wasn't the same, and they couldn't both compete to shine in the 3/4 area without service, it was daft. Maradona sure as feck was no good for anything else, while he didn't mind a bit of a scrap so on comes a more withdrawn midfield playmaking CM, who still did his fair share once the attack was in full flow. That's when you start seeing the midfield general and his fabulous passing dictating games. I wouldn't put him down as box-to-box in the strict sense we use it, as either side of his injury he had a clear bias to the attack or playing deeper, there was a time at Barca he still tried to do both but he ended up settling for the realisation his knee was shot and he couldn't keep up with it effectively. That's not to say he just walked around the pitch, he was still mentally a very dynamic player and would always push himself to the limit of what his body would still allow.
He actually gets into the last three for Ballon d'Or in this incarnation, but around this time he also falls out with the German setup (manager, certain players, the FA, everyone). In the middle of it all had been the common 1980s dispute about playing for club and country, with Schuster wanting to do both. Watching interviews, you can tell he deeply regrets it, although he still thinks he was right of course (and frankly, it was the Germans who should have known better and found a way to repair that, it probably cost them 1986 as well!!!!!). After falling out with the Germans, he turned to the Barca hierarchy, particularly after Maradona had gone and football wasn't as fun as it used to be (and him being the undisputed star sent him on a power trip). He had all sorts of problems at Barca, it was one of the most manic star-board relationships you will ever encounter.
And then he went to Real, who had a fabulous generation but missed the old German influence in midfield, the one they had got from Breitner and Stielike. And it is there that he gradually drops back from CM, to DLP, to libero, effectively becoming Stielike's heir. Again, that's something that is common in well rounded hardworking geniuses as they age and their body makes them settle for more withdrawn roles. We've seen how Giggs reinvented himself, but he wasn't half as good defensively obviously. Boniek is another one, he started winger, support striker, CM, then sweeper.
Anyhow, just to throw some light on how/why someone would play so many roles. I wouldn't play him in a 4-4-2 myself, that's not his best setting, he can do it but you are basically shoehorning Schuster in a 4-4-2 rather than building a midfield around his considerable talent.
ftfy
He usually neglects to mention in his interviews that Beckenbauer wanted him back after he took over from Derwall (who was the one fighting with Schuster). But his annoying wife and agent asked for a shitload of money that no other player got for playing for the nationalteam. They asked for one fecking million to play at the World Cup in 1986. He should regret that he was a greedy fecker or his wife was and he let her manipulate him or whatever, but it wasn't the fault of the German FA that he didn't return to the nationalteam again.
We missed out on a midfield of experienced Breitner and young Schuster in 1982 and on a midfield of experienced Schuster and young Matthäus in 1986. So annoying.
Of course he was, but the point is he also had the bravery to back it up. How many arrogant twats disappear when things get difficult? You know the sort, those who start looking for someone else to blame, get flustered... Schuster always owned up, he wasn't afraid of failure tainting him because he simply knew that if he did his best he could win, and if he didn't it wouldn't be for the lack of trying. The embarrassment for him would be not rising to the occasion.
Of course he wouldn't, doesn't put him in the best light, does it? I'm clear his wife had a bad influence, what I'm not sure about is whether that money thing is what it boiled down to or whether it is the sort of shit that is made up to effectively settle a raging and divisive national football discussion.
I know! You could have left young Matthäus on Maradona all game and let Schuster run the show.
True. I still don't get it, what's wrong with German midfielders and their egos? Breitner left the nationalteam as a 22 year old because he was a cnut, then Schuster the same. We won the Euro in 1996 without Effenberg and Matthäus, because both were as stupid as Breitner and Schuster before them. Idiots, all of them.
This.
Easiest example for me is Scholes.
you had to get him in there, eh?Scholes looks a more standard case of the body not keeping up, it's not like the range of positions he moved in or attributes displayed was that diverse. Try moving from SS/winger to CM to sweeper, or #10 to CM to libero (speaking of, that just reminded me of Lothar...). You have to be really special to be effective at them all.
Yeah, he's not the classic case of it, but an incredibly easy exmaple.
Scholes looks a more standard case of the body not keeping up, it's not like the range of positions he moved in or attributes displayed was that diverse. Try moving from SS/winger to CM to sweeper, or #10 to CM to libero (speaking of, that just reminded me of Lothar...). You have to be really special to be effective at them all.
Cutch, I'm in all day meetings tomorrow, can we do Saturday?
Friday (tomorrow)? I'm not sure on my weekend plans yet. Have couple of meetings at work tomorrow, but should be able to grab some time.
kps will be interesting. Garrincha against his successor Jairzinho!
Some of the best instances are those who have moved infield from wider positions typically reliant on pace and other physical attributes. Relevant examples in this context would be Bossis, Facchetti, Giggs, Zanetti, Figo and Krol. Ruud Gullit might be the best of them all though.
Scholes looks a more standard case of the body not keeping up, it's not like the range of positions he moved in or attributes displayed was that diverse. Try moving from SS/winger to CM to sweeper, or #10 to CM to libero (speaking of, that just reminded me of Lothar...). You have to be really special to be effective at them all.
Of course!
NM vs Cutch will be fantastic. Also means the rest of us will now have a chance.
It's a great matchup to be fair. Brilliant individual battles all over the pitch.
No bother. @Skizzo
Works for me.
Is Gullit a decent shout for the most versatile top level player ever? He seemed to play all over the park almost independently of changes in his physical attributes. I think he played as a sweeper for a season or more at PSV when he was still young, as well as at the end of his career with Chelsea, then I vaguely recall him playing as a left winger for Sampdoria when his knees were already knackered. Incredible footballer.
Translation - please ban Anto from the thread.
For what it's worth, I'm with you on only allowing the main manager to argue his case. We didn't do that in the first round though.
Translation - please ban Anto from the thread.
@VivaJanuzaj covering all bases and reinforcing every advantage here!
Bollocks to that, it has always been a case of one or the other talking, i.e. no sustained 2v1.Translation - please ban Anto from the thread.
For what it's worth, I'm with you on only allowing the main manager to argue his case. We didn't do that in the first round though.
Not that I intend to take over or anything of the sort. I didn't even want to be an AM, but since I can't vote in his games I may as well help him sort out his writeups.
FWIW, @sajeev's best run in the last game was while I was sleeping, went from 10-14 to 17-16 all by himself so be careful what you wish for @VivaJanuzaj
Nah, it's not that I have a problem if it's approved, I just want to know in advance not to get emotionally involved in this and go into a massive headache
Anyway, if he wants to play and it's agreed upon, it's okay. Just wanted to clear it out in advance because lets face it, anto has a force there and I need to plan ahead and it went from allowed to not allowed between drafts.
I can start the game tomorrow afternoon, while Skizzo is sleeping.
So we have so far
Friday:
EAP vs kps88 (3pm)
Viva vs sajeev (3pm if it's okay with sajeev?)
Saturday:
NM vs Cutch
tba:
Joga vs Boris
Friday:
EAP vs kps88 (3pm)
Viva vs sajeev (3pm if it's okay with sajeev?)
Saturday:
NM vs Cutch
tba:
Joga vs Boris
have an important meeting till around 4:30 PM, so need the time till 5 PM
Okay, I'll guess I'll miss the start.
If you both are busy, why not have it on another day then?
ok wait. WHAT? I just realized I drew Cutch. I even quoted him without noticing it. FFS.
Welll, revenge for Zanetti is SO ON!
Welll, revenge for Zanetti is SO ON!
Nah it's fine by me, just not sure I'll be around a computer for the first few hours but I'll try catching up from my laptop.
That's no good mate. Missing the start of games can be costly, or can make them fizzle out as the entire manager interaction is lost. Agree a time with sajeev where you will be able to exchange blows for the first couple of hours at least.
@sajeev, I can help out of course
but you should defo be there VJ. If there's any point in AMs, it is that the discussion can be kept alive amid personal commitments.Nah it's okay, I'm not sure yet when I'll leave home but I think it might be around 6-ish, so I hope to get the first hour of the game than I'll be on my phone for a few hoursThat's no good mate. Missing the start of games can be costly, or can make them fizzle out as the entire manager interaction is lost. Agree a time with sajeev where you will be able to exchange blows for the first couple of hours at least.
@sajeev, I can help out of course
As anto said, not worth it. In the british/Irish draft I lost so many votes at start due to a goof-up. Had I been online I had a pretty good chance of making it to the finals.