I'll have my tactics in tomorrow evening so we can work from there I guess @Joga Bonito .
Although what I have planned may get me banned before the match finishes.
Although what I have planned may get me banned before the match finishes.
The Second RedCafe Sheep Draft
- Thread starter Skizzo
- Start date
This sounds promising. ....I'll have my tactics in tomorrow evening so we can work from there I guess @Joga Bonito .
Although what I have planned may get me banned before the match finishes.
Intriguing...I'll have my tactics in tomorrow evening so we can work from there I guess @Joga Bonito .
Although what I have planned may get me banned before the match finishes.
Let's have our match on Sunday if that's ok with you. Good luck.
@antohan
That's a great summary. Couldn't have written it any better. A real character and a great player.
He made a lot of mistakes though. Letting Gaby influence him in footballing matters for starters. Leading to a fall out between Veneables which led to him spending an entire season in the reserves for Barca (due to walking out on a random drug test). Then letting her demand 1m to play in the WC when Beckenbauer really rated Schuster and would have built the midfield around him.
Some fall outs were quite funny too. Like the Real Madrid one when he hadn't done anything wrong and they were blantantly trying to force him out, to make way for Hagi. Didn't really go according to plan did it. The falling out with Gil at Atletico was bizarre to say the least. Blaming him for not recovering fast enough from an injury and letting his team down? Geez
Shame Germany couldn't see a midfield of Schuster-Breitner and Schuster-Matthäus. I'm sure they could have won the 86 WC with Matthäus on Maradona for the entire game instead of just the first half.
@neutrals
Your predictions on the matches?
Just for fun, let's see who is more accurate!
Your predictions on the matches?
Just for fun, let's see who is more accurate!
This is actually a good idea.
A thread comprising of normally unrated players! Writeups like anto and Joga, kind of a reference material!
A thread comprising of normally unrated players! Writeups like anto and Joga, kind of a reference material!
My favourite is the 1986 European Cup Final. With the game drawn and going into ET, Venables takes him off. Best player Barca had, the only one likely to break the deadlock, but no Venables takes him off. He was probably trying to make it clear who was boss, which was the ongoing problem.Intriguing...
Let's have our match on Sunday if that's ok with you. Good luck.
@antohan
That's a great summary. Couldn't have written it any better. A real character and a great player.
He made a lot of mistakes though. Letting Gaby influence him in footballing matters for starters. Leading to a fall out between Veneables which led to him spending an entire season in the reserves for Barca (due to walking out on a random drug test). Then letting her demand 1m to play in the WC when Beckenbauer really rated Schuster and would have built the midfield around him.
Some fall outs were quite funny too. Like the Real Madrid one when he hadn't done anything wrong and they were blantantly trying to force him out, to make way for Hagi. Didn't really go according to plan did it. The falling out with Gil at Atletico was bizarre to say the least. Blaming him for not recovering fast enough from an injury and letting his team down? Geez
Shame Germany couldn't see a midfield of Schuster-Breitner and Schuster-Matthäus. I'm sure they could have won the 86 WC with Matthäus on Maradona for the entire game instead of just the first half.
Problem is, as well as the most likely game-changer, Schuster was their designated penalty taker, the one you would give the all important first peno to... He was German for Christ's sake!... and he takes him off the pitch. Nutter. Schuster leaves the pitch in a strop, then the stadium and gets on a cab. The Sevillan cabbie looks through the rearview mirror and turns around, completely startled: "aren't you supposed to be in there playing?". Schuster's face must have been a picture.
Cabbie drives off and with the radio on Schuster listens on, probably with a cnutish knowing smirk on his face, as Barca miss all four of their penos (the worst part being Steaua also missed their first two, so getting the first one in would have made a massive difference). Of course, stupid as Venables was, Schuster made him the winner on the day with his actions. Venables' and the Board's problem was the fans loved their temperamental genius, but walking out on the team like that broke the camel's back, which led to Venables being able to have him spending 1986-87 playing reserve team football.
I've read both sides of the story and as much as I hate it, I think the fault lies fair and square with Schuster on this instance.
I read a segment of Veneables biography, Born to manage and they both reached a gentleman's agreement that Schuster would be allowed to leave at the end of the season. Then Schuster came to training the next day and claimed that he wanted to leave immediately.
Veneables knew this was the work of Gaby and arranged a meeting with her, in which they again agreed that he'd leave at the end of the season but grudgingly so.
On the final, Schuster was subbed and Veneables claims Schuster was unmotivated and had to be removed. Schuster claims he was subbed off as Veneables wanted to show that he could win the CL without Schuster. I'm actually inclined to believe Schuster on this, as it makes sense given their fall out and his impending departure.
However, Schuster made a huge mistake leaving the stadium as there was a random drug test after that match and Veneables had made it clear that everyone had to be present for it.
Luckily for Barca he wasn't one of those who was going to be tested. Veneables was naturally angry and imposed a one year suspension on him (the duration Barca would have been banned from the CL if Schuster was supposed to be tested). Schuster asked to leave but Veneables claimed, why should I honor our agreement when you didn't honor my word or something along those lines.
So Schuster criminally wasted an entire prime year of his career, in the reserves despite many big teams being after his signature. Curiously enough, Veneables also states that Schuster was professional and trained hard in every training that year, despite knowing that he wouldn't feature. The fans also clamoured for his return but Barca and the board stood firm. Just a shame really.
Obviously Veneables could have been spouting nonsense, and telling his side of the story. So events could be skewed or misrepresented.
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Am I a neutral?
I don't think it's fair to predict matches before they've started
Yeah pretty muchAm I a neutral?
why not? It's not as if you are making a decision now. So many unknown variables as of now. Go on...It's been done before.I don't think it's fair to predict matches before they've started
He is wrong about leaving the stadium, no two ways about it. It was certainly Venables trying to win it without Bernd though. The motivation thing is complete bulllshit, I can't see him being on a pitch half-arsed and his training for the reserves is consistent with that.
I don't understand why they didn't just sell him if they planned to have him suspended for a whole year. Idiotic. Brings that Stam statement about being treated like meat to mind. I think you are getting overly-riled about the Gaby stuff here. Players wanting a move and changing their minds constantly about it is part and parcel of managing a football club, Venables can do one AFAIC.
Fair enough. Veneables handled the substitution issue wrongly, trying to stupidly show who's the boss, and Schuster shouldn't have left the stadium.
The 1 year ban was way too harsh, needlessly vengeful and disproportionate imo. Dont agree with it at all. Classic case of going too far just to prove a point.
Should have been a fine, a 1-2 month suspension and better yet just transfer listing and offloading him. Veneables knew that's what Schuster would have wanted and went out of his way to not let that happen. Petty. I just wanted to say that Veneables had grounds to punish him (certainly for more than just walking out in anger, given the circumstances) but took it over the limit and also that Schuster was culpable of something quite serious.
Well, just another controversial chapter in Schuster's intriguing career.
It's an interesting scenario. It's true that Maradona's influence increases when Forster takes over the man-marking duties. And although it's mostly down to five minutes of set-piece madness that sees West Germany draw level, Matthaus, freed up, does take credit for re-establishing them in the game. But if we don't look at the final in isolation, it wasn't a great West German vintage sandwiched between the end of one and the beginning of another era, and they were a little lucky to get through the group and past both Mexico and Algeria. My take is that although Maradona could be quietened for a short spell here and there yes, aided by the searing heat, poor pitch and laissez-faire refereeing, in that form he just wasn't going to be sufficiently quelled to be on the losing side at any point in Mexico.
BTW @VivaJanuzaj, you'll be pleased to know sajeev has gone completely AWOL and we haven't talked about the match at all. That's how much AMing I did during the drafting, sometimes days would go by without him showing up at all (which is very much why I thought he needed the research support!).
I therefore sent him a suggested write-up, of course.
I therefore sent him a suggested write-up, of course.
That is reasonable. I might have gone overboard with my earlier statement but Schuster was exactly the kind of presence they needed in midfield. A midfield trio of Magath-Schuster-Matthäus had just about you could ask for.
Maradona was unstoppable but his influence did diminish with Matthäus on him. They lost too much going forward with Matthäus playing a limited role and had to take him off man marking duties. This is where Schuster comes in with his drive and playmaking ability.
Hypothetical, I know but I do feel Germany overall had the better team, although they were a bit underwhelming throughout the tournament like you said.
The worst part for @Balu is that in 1986 it was the 1986 Schuster that they needed more and in 1982 it was the pre-injury one, particularly with Kalle also injured. Basically, two of the five best players in the world were pretty much out of it, and they still made the final! Like them, so many great players are often overlooked on the back of their WC non-performance, whatever the reason.
First quarterfinal is under way. I won't be online to start the game between Viva and sajeev later, so you guys have to wait until @Skizzo wakes up.
Damn, pretty much guarantees I'll miss the start of it. @Skizzo if you can postpone it to 8 GMT I'll be here, if not it's okay.
Wait, you want it to start later, not earlier? That shouldn't be a problem at all.
I'm not sure Sajeev can start later. But for me 6-8 are the hours I'll be mostly offline, so I prefer it would start either before or after.
Can't help I'm afraid
@Balu @Skizzo
Sajeev tells me he was having trouble accessing our convo at work (it keeps happening, friggin' nazis, this is the third convo we have to start). I just sent him my stuff and what he had posted (which I seem to have missed while writing mine) and in an hour or so he should be able to send his stuff in. After that he can be around for a couple of hours at the start.
@VivaJanuzaj, does this suit you?
Sajeev tells me he was having trouble accessing our convo at work (it keeps happening, friggin' nazis, this is the third convo we have to start). I just sent him my stuff and what he had posted (which I seem to have missed while writing mine) and in an hour or so he should be able to send his stuff in. After that he can be around for a couple of hours at the start.
@VivaJanuzaj, does this suit you?
Yeah I guess it will be fine, I'll try to log on as much as possible from my phone.
Sajeev PMd me saying he has gone to bed and I won't be around for the next three hours or so. I understand Viva was also struggling and on the phone, maybe start it later?
Yeah, if sajeev went to bed, I won't start it now. Skizzo can do it in 5 or 6 hourse, then Viva should be up again as well, if I'm not mistaken? I'm not entirely sure who lives in what timezone though, it's a mess
I'm watching from the shadows
I can start it in 2 hours. After that I'm gone for a while and I don't want to push it back too far.
But nobody will be around then... Whatever, I can join in later today and see what's the status. It does make a difference though, you know how I go off on one in OPS prompting some irate responsesI'm watching from the shadows
I can start it in 2 hours. After that I'm gone for a while and I don't want to push it back too far.
I have no idea what sajeev finally submitted so chances are he sanitised it all away anyway
Viva asked for it at 8PM GMT...so I would imagine he'll be there. And you're always here. ALWAYS.But nobody will be around then... Whatever, I can join in later today and see what's the status. It does make a difference though, you know how I go off on one in OPS prompting some irate responses
I have no idea what sajeev finally submitted so chances are he sanitised it all away anyway
Plus an hour ago, you said Sajeev would be gone for 3 hours. Which if i waited 2 hours like i said, would add up perfectly. SOMETHING VERY SUSPICIOUS ABOUT YOUR MATHS AND YOUR COMMENTS HERE!
ok im done using caps lock now
The problem is Sajeev wanting it to start at 6 while not being here at 6... Probably something popped up in his real life(which is soooo overrated), I don't mind going at it against antohan if necessary, I don't mind going against both of them. Let's just decide when this will really get started so I can plan ahead
I said I would be gone for three hours. I'm driving out to the coast for the next couple of hours starting now.
Ahh. Guess I'll go back to my Run Spot, Run books to work on my reading.
guess I'll wait for a while then.
Jesus this shouldn't be so difficult
Anyway, Skizzo whatever you decide is fine by me. I'll try to be active, worst case scenario? I'll lose the start and have to climb back to the match. I can't be here all day long, after Sajeev specifically asked for a time(which wasn't comfortable to me), I made amends to be here yet the match isn't going anyway. I'm not mad or anything, the opposite, I'm just reluctant to spend my day refreshing this page.
Anyway, Skizzo whatever you decide is fine by me. I'll try to be active, worst case scenario? I'll lose the start and have to climb back to the match. I can't be here all day long, after Sajeev specifically asked for a time(which wasn't comfortable to me), I made amends to be here yet the match isn't going anyway. I'm not mad or anything, the opposite, I'm just reluctant to spend my day refreshing this page.
I'll put the match up in an hour. That way it won't run completely alongside any matches going on tomorrow.Jesus this shouldn't be so difficult
Anyway, Skizzo whatever you decide is fine by me. I'll try to be active, worst case scenario? I'll lose the start and have to climb back to the match. I can't be here all day long, after Sajeev specifically asked for a time(which wasn't comfortable to me), I made amends to be here yet the match isn't going anyway. I'm not mad or anything, the opposite, I'm just reluctant to spend my day refreshing this page.
You'll miss some of it. Sajeev will miss some of it. The downside of multiple time zone opponents
