The vaccines | vaxxed boosted unvaxxed? New poll

[Henrik Larsson]

I was hoping you were gonna tell me it’s wrong and it’s actually higher

Maybe I'm just stating the obvious here, in which case I apologise, but this is how they explained it:

"The effectiveness varied when researchers tested the vaccine in other countries, where variants of the coronavirus are circulating. In Latin America, where the variant P.1 has cropped up, the vaccine was found to be 66 percent effective. In studies in South Africa, where a variant called B.1.351 is circulating, effectiveness was lower: 64 percent.

But the numbers don't tell the whole story.

When researchers looked specifically at the vaccine's protection against the most severe forms of illness, effectiveness shot up to 86 percent.

And it prevented 100 percent of hospitalizations and deaths related to Covid-19. No one who got the Johnson & Johnson shot was hospitalized or died of Covid-19 during the study's follow-up period of 28 days after vaccination."

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/how-effective-johnson-johnson-vaccine-what-know-n1259652


Single dose, can be stored for three months at the temperature of a regular fridge, sounds very promising all together.

 

[golden_blunder]

Maybe I'm just stating the obvious here, in which case I apologise, but this is how they explained it:

"The effectiveness varied when researchers tested the vaccine in other countries, where variants of the coronavirus are circulating. In Latin America, where the variant P.1 has cropped up, the vaccine was found to be 66 percent effective. In studies in South Africa, where a variant called B.1.351 is circulating, effectiveness was lower: 64 percent.

But the numbers don't tell the whole story.

When researchers looked specifically at the vaccine's protection against the most severe forms of illness, effectiveness shot up to 86 percent.

And it prevented 100 percent of hospitalizations and deaths related to Covid-19. No one who got the Johnson & Johnson shot was hospitalized or died of Covid-19 during the study's follow-up period of 28 days after vaccination."

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/how-effective-johnson-johnson-vaccine-what-know-n1259652


Single dose, can be stored for three months at the temperature of a regular fridge, sounds very promising all together.

Thanks, that’s very helpful and reassuring!

 

[prateik]

And it prevented 100 percent of hospitalizations and deaths related to Covid-19. No one who got the Johnson & Johnson shot was hospitalized or died of Covid-19 during the study's follow-up period of 28 days after vaccination."

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/how-effective-johnson-johnson-vaccine-what-know-n1259652

I have seen this reported/posted a few times.. Is that supposed to be very impressive? how does it compare to the other vaccines..

Aren't most of the people in the trial not in the highest risk category? If they wait for around 160-200 cases to publish their data, even if they had ~30 people who got the vaccine and got infected, the odds of someone dying isnt that high..
Or are they reporting from a much larger sample size?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I have seen this reported/posted a few times.. Is that supposed to be very impressive? how does it compare to the other vaccines..

Aren't most of the people in the trial not in the highest risk category? If they wait for around 160-200 cases to publish their data, even if they had ~30 people who got the vaccine and got infected, the odds of someone dying isnt that high..
Or are they reporting from a much larger sample size?

It’s similar for all vaccines. And it’s a claim you take with a pinch of salt. The stats are powered to show a difference based on their primary endpoint, which is symptomatic cases for most of them and mod-severe covid fo J&J. The analyses were triggered when there were enough cases to show a statistically significant difference between drug and placebo.

The numbers of deaths/hospitalisations will have been much lower so not yet reached statistical significance i.e. difference between drug and placebo could be down to chance. The trends are definitely encouraging but we need more data to be certain about claims like that.

Basically, your concerns about numbers/sample size are correct.

 

[Ødegaard]

Mother in law got the AZ vaccine without any issues, but she only had it once. Will make a note if she reacts after second dosage.

 

[Henrik Larsson]

I have seen this reported/posted a few times.. Is that supposed to be very impressive? how does it compare to the other vaccines..

Aren't most of the people in the trial not in the highest risk category? If they wait for around 160-200 cases to publish their data, even if they had ~30 people who got the vaccine and got infected, the odds of someone dying isnt that high..
Or are they reporting from a much larger sample size?

Good question (I see Pogue has already answered it) and maybe the bolded part was way too suggestive or flat out misleading, frankly I have no idea at all. Just that it sounded quite promising in combination with the protection against severe forms of illness being in the high eighties, and after reading up how the vaccin was developed and what it tries to do/how it's supposed to work. I read that J&J were planning to produce a billion doses in 2021, again no idea if they can actually deliver on that scale without logistical problems arising, but it definitely makes me more hopeful there can be some significant improvement on a global scale over the next 6-8 months.

 

[WPMUFC]

Bugger, just hopped into bed for the night and winding down, getting hit with chills and more muscle soreness as i relax

 

[711]

Just a random thought, but if a bad reaction to a vaccination is due to the way a particular individual's immune reaction kicks in, does that mean the same person might also be one of those that would have suffered the most if they contracted the actual virus?

Maybe those that have had the worst experience of vaccination are those that needed it the most anyway?

 

[Dumbstar]

Just a random thought, but if a bad reaction to a vaccination is due to the way a particular individual's immune reaction kicks in, does that mean the same person might also be one of those that would have suffered the most if they contracted the actual virus?

Maybe those that have had the worst experience of vaccination are those that needed it the most anyway?

Could be. The more likely scenario is they had covid asymptomatically before and the vaccine is amplifying the symptoms that were hardly noticed the first time.

This is anecdotal of course.

 

[JMack1234]

Yep, fairly common reaction to the first dose of the AZ/Oxford vaccine.

It floored me when I had mine - had to dose up on paracetamol. But passed after 36 hours or so. Roll on the second dose!

Not with the AZ but I had the Pfizer jab and felt like that. It’s just the body immune system kicking in. My brother was the same for a day. But next day was absolutely fine. I had mine while I was at work as well on a night shift. Had my second about 3 weeks ago and had no effects at all.

Yeah good stuff. I'm completely side effect free today.

Got my 2nd dose booked in for the middle of May.

 

[Pexbo]

Yeah good stuff. I'm completely side effect free today.

Got my 2nd dose booked in for the middle of May.

How are you getting on JMack? If I remember rightly you were struggling with the lockdown this time last year. Being an introvert with loads of Uni work I was more than happy to be locked in at the time so probably wasn’t particularly understanding of how difficult it was for people who need social interaction to function. I’m still a firm believer of how necessary its all been but as it’s went on and on I’ve understood more how draining it can be for others and why you might have been so against it at the time.

 

[Brwned]

Could be. The more likely scenario is they had covid asymptomatically before and the vaccine is amplifying the symptoms that were hardly noticed the first time.

This is anecdotal of course.

Yeah I think the findings were very consistent across vaccines that those who had been infected before had a worse reaction to the first dose, while those who hadn’t been infected have a worse reaction to the second. After the immune system has been primed from the first exposure, the second hits a bit harder. Given the prevalence of asymptomatic cases, that tougher first dose will sneak up on quite a few of us.

 

[golden_blunder]

Bugger, just hopped into bed for the night and winding down, getting hit with chills and more muscle soreness as i relax

From a jab?

 

[JMack1234]

How are you getting on JMack? If I remember rightly you were struggling with the lockdown this time last year. Being an introvert with loads of Uni work I was more than happy to be locked in at the time so probably wasn’t particularly understanding of how difficult it was for people who need social interaction to function. I’m still a firm believer of how necessary its all been but as it’s went on and on I’ve understood more how draining it can be for others and why you might have been so against it at the time.

This is very decent of you I appreciate you asking. I'd say that I've gone on the opposite journey to most people I know.

The first Lockdown was a real shock to the system and I was instinctively upset by the impositions that were being placed on my life and I expressed some of the anger out on that thread. I don't want got through it all again because I've moved on from all of that and the way I was treated just made me even more aggravated at the world. Let's just say that I stand by some of what I said but not all of it. Also I'm more emphatic about it now. I get that while I was raging about the government restricting my most fundamental freedoms, others on here were genuinely petrified about their own health. So mistakes got made all round there.

But as time as moved on I've made my peace with the situation. I won't give you my life story, but I enjoyed the summer, had a few city breaks across Europe and then spent September to December doing quite an intense contract so I barely noticed Lockdown 2 and Lockdown 3 felt like a bit of a sabbatical. So I've actually found the Lockdowns easier as time as go on.

I hope you're doing okay. Everyday I thank my lucky stars that this didn't happen when I was at Uni because the students have been really stiffed by this. Everybody knows someone whose finding this Lockdown a real struggle and you're more than welcome to PM me and chat about anything.

 

[WPMUFC]

From a jab?

Yeah, got AZ at 11am, initial symptoms were sore arm and headache that was controlled by paracetamol. Rest of work day was fine. However got ready for bed and started to unwind.......BAM chills, fever, whole body soreness.

 

[golden_blunder]

Yeah, got AZ at 11am, initial symptoms were sore arm and headache that was controlled by paracetamol. Rest of work day was fine. However got ready for bed and started to unwind.......BAM chills, fever, whole body soreness.

Oh I see, well hopefully doesn’t last too long. Get well soon

 

[Dancfc]

According to the vaccine calculator i should expect my first dose in May, which should give me atleast some time to travel before they shut us down for winter (Whitty is already starting to lay the ground work).

 

[shamans]

Just got scheduled for 2 weeks from now. Pretty excited

 

[Wibble]

I was out for 36 hours after my first dose. Apparently the side effects are meant to be worse after the second dose. Due for mine in April. I think I might just preemptively tell the hospital I won't be in for two days I'd be lying if I said I'm not a bit nervous about how bad I'll feel, even if it's only temporarily. Haven't felt that sick in years.

Really makes you think about just how awful getting actual Covid might feel.

Although what you felt was likely more a side effect of the immune response (or the adjuvant which often causes inflammation more generally to speed up the immune response) than it feeling like having covid.

 

[F-Red]

Although what you felt was likely more a side effect of the immune response (or the adjuvant which often causes inflammation more generally to speed up the immune response) than it feeling like having covid.

That’s pretty much how I felt last night, temperature and headache. Nothing a few paracetamols couldn’t sort it out. Annoying though as I wanted to get some exercise in this weekend.

 

[zing]

Although what you felt was likely more a side effect of the immune response (or the adjuvant which often causes inflammation more generally to speed up the immune response) than it feeling like having covid.

Why do some people have mild reactions but some have more severe ones?

 

[djembatheking]

A friend of mine had a heart attack 6 weeks ago , 64 years old , so missed out on her jab . She had a stent put in and has been home now for 4 weeks and got called last week for her jab . She had a bad reaction and had to go back to hospital in Ysbyty Gwynedd , Bangor where they currently have an outbreak where about 50 people have caught covid. She has been released this morning so hopefully she will be ok now, scary stuff though.

 

[golden_blunder]

A friend of mine had a heart attack 6 weeks ago , 64 years old , so missed out on her jab . She had a stent put in and has been home now for 4 weeks and got called last week for her jab . She had a bad reaction and had to go back to hospital in Ysbyty Gwynedd , Bangor where they currently have an outbreak where about 50 people have caught covid. She has been released this morning so hopefully she will be ok now, scary stuff though.

Hope she gets better soon. Scary times for her

 

[djembatheking]

Hope she gets better soon. Scary times for her

It is . I saw her husband when I was walking passed the house this morning and he said she seems ok but it is quite scary . She`s a tough old boiler so hopefully she will be ok.

 

[Wibble]

Why do some people have mild reactions but some have more severe ones?

I don't know but I'd guess that the stronger your immune reaction the greater your chance of symptoms but other things like variable reactions to any adjutant and prior exposure to the virus may make you more or less likely to have a reaction. @Pogue Mahone and our other medicos might know.

 

[Wolverine]

Why do some people have mild reactions but some have more severe ones?

We don't really know beyond conjecture I believe. Despite it probably being a multifactorial thing, there is an interesting field though looking into it at a cellular/genetic level called "adversomics" which has hypothesised that genes that code for inflammatory proteins called interleukins (and specific pro-inflammatory or fever-promoting subtypes) may be implicated.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

We don't really know beyond conjecture I believe. Despite it probably being a multifactorial thing, there is an interesting field though looking into it at a cellular/genetic level called "adversomics" which has hypothesised that genes that code for inflammatory proteins called interleukins (and specific pro-inflammatory or fever-promoting subtypes) may be implicated.

Same area of research looking into why covid kills some people while others don’t get any symptoms. Wouldn’t be surprised at all if there’s a correlation with reaction to the vaccines.

 

[R'hllor]

Well finally my parents got 1st jab of Chinese Synofarm or w/e the name is, at the time of placing them on the list, it was more or less only option for them. Personally, i am not sold on it at all but it is what it is. Now have to wait for rolls out for younger folk and pick my option.

 

[tombombadil]

It was an educated guess at first from experts, but the data is increasingly convincing. Single shot for historically infected (seropositive persons) is equally as 2 shots. Govs really need to start planning vaccinations in light of this data.

We found that a single dose of mRNA vaccine elicited rapid immune responses in seropositive participants, with post vaccination antibody titers that were similar to or exceeded titers found in seronegative participants who received two vaccinations. Whether a single dose of mRNA vaccine provides effective protection in seropositive persons requires investigation.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2101667?query=featured_home

 

[Pogue Mahone]

AZ vaccine roll-out on hold in Ireland after more reports of blood clots, this time from Norway.

 

[golden_blunder]

AZ vaccine roll-out on hold in Ireland after more reports of blood clots, this time from Norway.

I could fecking cry

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I could fecking cry

If they decide these cases are unrelated it will only be a pause for a few days. They’re erring on the side of caution while this is investigated. Could be full steam ahead by middle of this week.

It’s a PR nightmare though. Music to the ears of antivaxxers.

 

[golden_blunder]

If they decide these cases are unrelated it will only be a pause for a few days. They’re erring on the side of caution while this is investigated. Could be full steam ahead by middle of this week.

It’s a PR nightmare though. Music to the ears of antivaxxers.

It’s worrying though that it’s a trend with several countries now.

but then I see U.K. has done millions without these reports and I’m thinking crack on ffs

 

[Eire Red United]

AZ vaccine roll-out on hold in Ireland after more reports of blood clots, this time from Norway.

Apparently theres higher percentage of people in the general population who gotten blood clots than there are among people who’ve got the jab. Hopefully the blood clots are totally unrelated to the vaccine.

 

[hmchan]

The selection of an effective vaccine is really crucial. Look at Chile, their case number keeps rising after they launch their vaccination campaign.

 

[redshaw]

Could do with numbers for Pfizer across Europe, how many blood clots out of all those vaccinated? Is it 3, 22, 205 or what?

If it's zero or pretty much then it might point to a rare problem with AZ and perhaps those who've had strokes and the like might want a different vaccine.

It’s worrying though that it’s a trend with several countries now.

but then I see U.K. has done millions without these reports and I’m thinking crack on ffs

What if UK just hasn't released the info, deemed it unrelated and ploughed on or some delay. Wouldn't put it past the health authorities and government to fumble this info while places like Norway and Denmark are on the case and very open.

"All three individuals (healh workers) were under the age of 50 "

Also Norway Denmark can't have vaccinated many people with AZ so it's a worry and I wonder about the 20+ million here.

If they decide these cases are unrelated it will only be a pause for a few days. They’re erring on the side of caution while this is investigated. Could be full steam ahead by middle of this week.

It’s a PR nightmare though. Music to the ears of antivaxxers.

I'd rather hear about the issues and switch to making better vaccines rather than worry about antivaxxers. If there is an issue left to continue then you will have a problem.

 

[Skills]

Isn't covid itself linked to higher incidences of blood clots?

 

[711]

The selection of an effective vaccine is really crucial. Look at Chile, their case number keeps rising after they launch their vaccination campaign.

Are the new cases amongst those that have been vaccinated or those that have not yet been vaccinated?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Isn't covid itself linked to higher incidences of blood clots?

It is. Well, coagulopathies in general.

It’s a really complicated picture. The Austrian issue was a pulmonary embolus. Which is a clot. The issue in Norway seems to be excessive bleeding, due to low platelets.

Covid messes with your clotting pathways and can causes clots and bleeds. But I don’t think it’s associated with low platelets.

 

[Wolverine]

Denmark, Norway, Iceland and Ireland stopping it is having an issue in terms of uptake. My dad is due to have his later today but called me because others telling him not to get it. It was very brief though, and he asked me is it safe. I said yup, explained that its being done on precautionary principle and pros/cons very swiftly done. Maybe a minute or so.

Most people I think who've not had the covid jabs are not hardened anti-vaxxers, I think there is a lot of merit in assuaging fears especially in older population.