If you can keep your first team fit you should be a lot more confident than you seem. You may not play as pretty football as City but you don’t feck about or doddle.
Top Four Race 2018/19
- Thread starter Damien
- Start date
You're not naive, Spurs aren't challenging anyone just as they never challenged Leicester or Chelsea. They'll always be at arms length and never really a threat
Quoting myself as it was left behind, & feels important to add.
City aren't riding their luck. They really are THAT good. Ourselves & Spurs are flattered by the points totals somewhat.
I really think you will win it this year not City. Like Klopp did with Dortmund while Pep was managing Bayern. I think Klopp knows now how to beat Pep on title, and start put some real pressure on him.
Pep won the title every year in germany
Liverpools main strength this season is your excellent defensive record. You aren't smashing teams like City have been but you don't need too because you've been so fecking good at the back. 11 clean sheets isn't luck.
Tottenhams been the dark horse yet again, the focus has been on City and yourselves while they continue to get wins and cling on despite playing poorly. Everyone always writes them off, every fecking season it's "they'll drop out of the Top 4 this year" and every year they're in the title race. Whether they can get their mentality right when the chips are down is a different matter.
Writing off Tottenham or yourselves and assuming City will cruise it is frankly misguided. City have been incredible since the start of last season, but they aren't indestructible. Lets also not forget that some of their really big wins have been Burnley, Huddersfield and Southampton at Home. In those three games combined they scored 17 goals and conceded 2. Part of the reason why their GD is very good is because they annihilate the bottom clubs at Home.
Wouldn't shock me at all if by May the title race is still alive. The Top 3 this Season are a tier apart from the rest of us.
I still wouldn't put Spurs in the same bracket as the top two, although appreciate that they certainly are an entity who may kick on from this point and have done really well to stay in touch up until this point, given the circumstances.
However it was only a few weeks back that they were spanked by an average Arsenal side. They've also lost to City and Liverpool at home.
However it was only a few weeks back that they were spanked by an average Arsenal side. They've also lost to City and Liverpool at home.
While our defensive record isn't luck, that doesn't mean we've not had games where wins should've been draws & draws, perhaps, should've been losses. We'd be second right now if it wasn't for Marhez's penalty miss, or if it weren't for Pickford's blunder, we'd be 2 points worse off.
Spurs will finish closer to Arsenal/Chelsea than to the title, and I'd be willing to bet on that, if I had anything worth betting with
If we can win evey game against the bottom 14 (we won all but 1 in the first half of the season) and scrap a few good results against the top teams we have a chance.
We're not as good as you or city and it was shown in our matches against you but weve developed a fantastic ability at dispatching the lesser teams consistently, and at the end of the day each match counts the same.
Just to think of the table had we gotten that last min penalty against you.
They've only dropped points to Watford in games against the bottom 15 clubs. They're incredibly consistent and have been for a few seasons now. They aren't going to drop away any time soon.While our defensive record isn't luck, that doesn't mean we've not had games where wins should've been draws & draws, perhaps, should've been losses. We'd be second right now if it wasn't for Marhez's penalty miss, or if it weren't for Pickford's blunder, we'd be 2 points worse off.
Spurs will finish closer to Arsenal/Chelsea than to the title, and I'd be willing to bet on that, if I had anything worth betting with
I mean, I don't understand why you're talking up City despite them having 2 losses in the last 3 games. Bit baffled really, I mean Chelsea aren't exactly good this Season and they beat City. Palace are fecking average and beat them at the Emirates. People over rate City because they dick on the small clubs. The best result imo was the Tottenham Everton result today. 6-2 against a highly placed Everton is better than dicking the small relegation threatened clubs. Likewise you beating Bournemouth 4-0 away. Those are two very good results against tough teams.
Maybe not, but are they going to get the 90+ points they'd likely need to win the title? I just can't see it.
My biggest reason for talking up City is their experience as winners & their manager who knows how to win. Poch/Spurs have won nothing, & the same goes for us, too. I just feel that, when push comes to shove, they're the most likely team to remain standing.
That said, I wonder what result Spurs fans are hoping for come the City/Liverpool game...
Experience is on their side true. But if that was the case every year football would be incredibly dull as the experienced clubs would win out every season. For all we know City might focus more on the Champions League and drop silly points in the league. I certainly wouldn't discount Tottenham though and I am very concerned this year that you can go all the way. I actually think it could be an amazing season points wise, easily the highest totals for top 3 combined imo.
Is this a common consensus now that Pep is the best manager? I think he's good, but if I look at the work Klopp, Pochettino and Pep has done I find it hard to say one of them is doing better. They are working under very different circumstances, and although it's possible Poch couldn't do what Pep has done, I'm not sure Pep could do what Poch has done either.
I personally think he's a little overrated as if he reinvented the wheel.
Lukaku should be upfront
We played poorly in that match and they played well but we were also culminating a week in which we had played Chelsea, Inter and then Arsenal, while they had played Bournemouth and then had an entire week's rest when they played Vorskla away, not even taking many of their players to that game.
Still, I'd say the position we're most likely to finish in is 3rd but no harm in looking up rather than down, especially as we are almost equidistant between 1st and 5th right now. I can't remember the last season we weren't roundly written off tbh.
I'd agree though that Liverpool and City are still clear favourites.
Klopp is my pick out of the 3 but I think Poch is just as capable as the other two, of course in different circumstances so far. We have yet to see him in a Pep Man City type scenario where the expectations would be different. I look at the Spurs squad, and it looks a bit weaker to me than that of Pool and City(especially), but Poch is keeping them at a higher level than most managers would. They will possibly finish 3rd, but I can see them dropping out as well. We're just about halfway only after all.
City, Spurs and Pool are not slipping out of the top 4 barring an absolute meltdown. Honestly thought Chelsea would be challenging for the league but it doesn't seem so.
If Pep doesn't defend his league title can you argue that his City side aren't up there with the best sides in the PL history or is it just that they're up against an unusually strong opponent(s)? Liverpool's form must be one of the best starts to a season ever. I know they've broken all sorts of records last year but only two clubs have ever retained the title in the PL's history. It's a big task.
If Pep doesn't defend his league title can you argue that his City side aren't up there with the best sides in the PL history or is it just that they're up against an unusually strong opponent(s)? Liverpool's form must be one of the best starts to a season ever. I know they've broken all sorts of records last year but only two clubs have ever retained the title in the PL's history. It's a big task.
Spurs are interesting, squad wise they just dont have the depth. But their first team is as good as anyone.
I think the fact they are a few injuries away from playing some 18 y/o academy player in midfield. Or Foyth/Davies as CB's tells you they needed some signings.
If they get Dembele and Vertonghen back and firing after the new year. And luck is with them injury wise anything is possible. It would probably benefit them in the race if they are knocked out of the CL and cups as well.
But I still think it's a City vs Liverpool race. God could it be worse? Id prefer just about anyone over those two.
I think the fact they are a few injuries away from playing some 18 y/o academy player in midfield. Or Foyth/Davies as CB's tells you they needed some signings.
If they get Dembele and Vertonghen back and firing after the new year. And luck is with them injury wise anything is possible. It would probably benefit them in the race if they are knocked out of the CL and cups as well.
But I still think it's a City vs Liverpool race. God could it be worse? Id prefer just about anyone over those two.
I think this is Liverpool's best ever start to a league season and (at least before the game against Everton, maybe still) out 2nd ever best start. Its a relentless pace at the top this season and any slight mistake (Trippier vs City, our game against Watford) is magnified in its importance.
This will be a very interesting race because, putting aside Spurs for one second, City haven't really 'been against it' since the beginning of last season or been under any particularly severe pressure. I know that is because of how well they've played but still, this season, four points off 1st and only 1 ahead of little old Spurs is, I imagine, not what the players thought the result would be now we're almost at half way.
And as for Liverpool, the fans and Klopp can downplay it all they want but they are very much in this title race now and, technically, they are in control. They cannot hide behind City and take the rear, they are in control. That comes with its own set of difficulties and pressures.
Very interesting to watch unfold.
Just had a look at the odds (roughly)
Man City 1.9
Liverpool 2.1
Spurs 17
Chelsea/ Arsenal Early to midd 100s
Seems about right to me. Liverpool and City are almost neck and neck here.
I kind of agree with you but I think our squad is deeper than most give it credit for.
We had to play Skipp (who is one of the highest rated players in the academy) because Dembele, Wanyama and Dier were all injured and Winks had been playing constantly after coming back from an injury. Foyth is 4th choice Cb at best, likely 5th, with Davies being 6th. We've had quite a few weird injury crises like this throughout the season. At points we've had 1st and 2nd choice keepers out simultaneously, both rbs out simultaneously, 3-4 cbs out at the same time, 3-4 cms out at the same time. Its been rotten luck but we've done well to ride it out imo. Rose, Eriksen, Alli, Sissoko have also had quite a few games out each during the season.
Our squad depth is less than Man City's (who's isn't!) but I'm not convinced it is that different to Liverpool's tbh.
We seriously need to look at replacing both Dembele and Wanyama in the summer though, long term. They are no longer reliable fitness wise.
And this is probably true, though we're only 3 matches away from a trophy now so would love to get the league cup.
Maybe they will. I do think City fans would take second right now if it meant a CL win, and Liverpool fans would take an Arsenal-like 10-2 aggregate beating to Bayern for the league
. And yeah it's definitely looking that way. What's the record before now? I can see the current top 3 potentially breaking the 250 mark, which I'd have to guess would shatter any previous total.It's all subjective, but for me, it's hard to see him as anything other than the best out of the three considering he's a perpetual winner. Yeah, he's done so with the most resources, but resources =/= success - Look at United since 2013. You need a top manager, & right now, Pep is the best in the country for me.
I personally think Poch is overrated (and no, not because he's linked with United
). I like all the talk of him being a young manager doing well with limited resources, while Emery is pretty much the exact same age & has actually won trophies, including 3 back to back Europa Leagues as an underdog. Don't get me wrong, I still think he's a very good manager, and he's doing great to have Spurs where they are, but I can't really put him in the same bracket as Pep.You're right there. While I do think we have the better first XI, our second XI & your second XI aren't worlds apart at all.
2008/2009Maybe they will. I do think City fans would take second right now if it meant a CL win, and Liverpool fans would take an Arsenal-like 10-2 aggregate beating to Bayern for the league
Man Utd 90
Liverpool 86
Chelsea 83
Should be the record
City, Liverpool and Spurs will get top 3 no doubt. They are absolutely relentless this season. Chelsea and Arsenal are better than last year but can still be chased down. Both of them being in the Europa League is an added bonus and we'll probably see the effects of that after February.
Chelsea are too dependent on Hazard and don't look defensively solid. Playing Kante higher up and having Luiz at CB has made them more vulnerable. Arsenal don't have any defense at the moment with all their injuries. They have been extremely lucky so far with many teams not taking their easy chances.
All we need to do is go one game at a time and get a decent run going. We have just one tough fixture till mid-Feb. With Sanchez and Lukaku back in January (and hopefully back in form), we have a solid set of attackers to depend upon.
Chelsea are too dependent on Hazard and don't look defensively solid. Playing Kante higher up and having Luiz at CB has made them more vulnerable. Arsenal don't have any defense at the moment with all their injuries. They have been extremely lucky so far with many teams not taking their easy chances.
All we need to do is go one game at a time and get a decent run going. We have just one tough fixture till mid-Feb. With Sanchez and Lukaku back in January (and hopefully back in form), we have a solid set of attackers to depend upon.
No we are not. Not playing as fluent a football doesn't mean that one doesn't deserve points. You could have maybe said that at 10 games but it's almost halfway to the season and LFC are undefeated. It's nothing to be scoffed at
Chelsea does seem to rely on Hazard an awful lot...too much Id say. He might be off to Spain as well this summer so it is a good idea they develop a more balanced attack. Still a very dangerous team, but it is not always going to be consistent.
Chelsea badly need a striker in january or they are gonna struggle to finish in the top 4.
Despite calling this off myself, there's definitely a good chance we could be within 6 points come start of January if results go well for us.
I think if we approached games as we expect Ole to do so (outscore the opposition), there's probably a good chance we could close up the gap before the end of the season. Again, we rely on Chelsea/Arsenal fecking up a few times along the way but it's definitely not over at this stage given the performance we just seen.
Need to hammer those smaller teams at Old Trafford to stand a chance.
Also agree that Chelsea appear to be the team most likely to be overtaken (and you could see finishing 6th if we managed to pull it off).
I think if we approached games as we expect Ole to do so (outscore the opposition), there's probably a good chance we could close up the gap before the end of the season. Again, we rely on Chelsea/Arsenal fecking up a few times along the way but it's definitely not over at this stage given the performance we just seen.
Need to hammer those smaller teams at Old Trafford to stand a chance.
Also agree that Chelsea appear to be the team most likely to be overtaken (and you could see finishing 6th if we managed to pull it off).
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If the league table reset to 0 once Mourinho was sacked, I’d be very confident that we’d get into the top 4
Unfortunately it’s far too many points to make up for United
Unfortunately it’s far too many points to make up for United
8 points?
8 pts might be a lot given we are talking about Chelsea here. It might require a title winning form untill the end of the season to make the top 4.
The problem is that we’re chasing down two teams and not just one. I know we’re all super hyped after Ole’s first game, but it’s probably not going to happen. Let’s just try and go on a winning run and see where that leaves us.
Both Chelsea and Arsenal are in the Europa so that could hurt them. Arsenal don't have a good defence and the injuries are starting to mount up and Chelsea are struggling with creativity/goals.
Why because we beat Cardiff?
I think he means we’d get top four because our squad isn’t anywhere close to being as shite as Mourinho told us and we’ve been screwing around lumping balls to Lukaku and Fellaini for the past few months when we could have been battering teams like Cardiff since the beginning.Why because we beat Cardiff?
Hardly a wild claim.
Mourinho's last home game was a 4-1 win over Fulham.
We played great football against Cardiff (better than anything under Mourinho) but it was one game against a newly promoted side surely to be relegated. Like I said in another thread lets see how we do against Huddersfield and Bournemouth before we get carried away that we're going to now just start battering these sides
We got comfortably beat by fecking Brighton (twice) who are pretty much the same level as Cardiff with our last manager in this same calendar year. It wasn't just the result either.Why because we beat Cardiff?
Just on this point, curious to see how this goes.Maybe they will. I do think City fans would take second right now if it meant a CL win, and Liverpool fans would take an Arsenal-like 10-2 aggregate beating to Bayern for the league
As mentioned, 08/09 everyone was quite close together and all top 3 had over 80 points, with a total of 259
Another contender would be 05/06 (Chelsea 91, Man Utd 83 and Liverpool 82), which just falls 3 points short of the 08/09 total, total of 256
And again in 07/08 (Man Utd 87, Chelsea 85, Arsenal 83) which is 4 short of 08/09. Incidentally, Liverpool also got 76 points that season, which is higher than the 4th placed team in 08/09 and 05/06, total of 255.
04/05 was driven by Chelsea's mammoth 95, Arsenal on 83 and Man Utd on 77, total of 255.
13/14 (again with Liverpool) was another year when top 3 all hit 80+ (Man City 86, Liverpool 84, Chelsea 82) but still less than the late 2000s, total of 252
16/17 had Chelsea on 93, Tottenham on 86, Man City on 78, one short of 08/09, total of 257. Liverpool hit 76 points again for 4th place, and curiously, Arsenal were just one below on 75 for 5th. Must have been one of the highest top 5s around.
17/18 had Man City on 100, Man Utd on 81, Tottenham on 77, total of 258 but driven entirely by Man City's dominance more than anything.
It seems that after the late 00s with Ferguson, Mourinho, Rafa and Wenger, when teams have hit late 80+ totals, they've tended to absolutely blow away the opposition. Of course you had some of that in the late 00s too with Chelsea hitting 95 (didn't realise how close Mourinho was to breaking his own Chelsea record!).
Chelsea are the only side that I think we can catch for a top 4 spot.
Going to be interesting if we can now put a real run together.
I wasn’t even thinking about the Cardiff game. Just when Mourinho went generally you felt a dark cloud fading.Why because we beat Cardiff?
You hear pundits saying Liverpool and Spurs are smaller clubs but better than United. I don’t buy it. United is a team with De Gea, Pogba, Lukaku, Martial, Sanchez, Rashford. Brilliant players who I don’t believe suit a negative playing style.
Lukaku currently is being completely written off as a flop. Put him in an attacking team with support around him, he’ll get 5 goals in 5, then be considered an elite striker again.
This gets mentioned every season, but is it really impossible to have more fair resting time during the winter football? Liverpool will get 312 resting hours while Everton gets 212. It's a massive difference.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/46279118
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/46279118