Unpopular Opinion | Not sacking Ten Hag

[hobbers]

Sacking the manager will do nothing apart from give us a new manager bounce and benefit us in the short term. Hopefully a new football structure is on its way in, which will give us the building blocks to work from, without that it'll just be another lamb for the slaughter.

Its not EtH's fault, its the hierarchy.

Right, because keeping ETH is what will benefit us in the long term The Structure will come and turn him into Fergie 2.0.

Nothing can possibly be ETH's fault. He only got £450m of players he asked for, does the coaching, decides the system, does the preparation, tactics, and game management, and is responsible for the training intensity and recovery time after games, etc.

If anything he should sack the club for mistreating him.

 

[Dazzmondo]

No one else has had the injuries we had to deal with - not even close

Upfront Ten Hag was failed by the board before the season even started - he was told Mason Greenwood would be part of his squad, then they changed their mind just before the transfer window closed and didn't bring in anyone else

So we went into the season very light upfront - raw Hojlund (who also had some injury issues) with worthless Martial as back up. All summer I had said that we desperately needed another striker and then again in January but nothing.

Both Chelsea and Newcastle had more injuries than us this season. That's not debatable, it's a fact.

Transfermarkt link

Liverpool came 3rd despite having a pretty similar number of injuries to us

 

[Revan]

Cannot do anything right, yes if you ignore the rest of his managerial career. Most top coaches in the world have had a stinker at some point. I'm not sure what magical fix is to be gained by sacking ETH.

He has had two seasons in England. In the first one, he played OleBall, we were ok overall, with a very good 2 month spell, but also some disgusting humiliations. The other season is the worst season United had in the last 30 years at least.

I do not care what he did at Ajax. Frank de Boer won 4 titles there and was one of the worst managers ever in EPL.

I do not think anyone is expecting a magic fix. Just that having a competent manager is quite important. EtH is far from competent.

 

[soapythecat]

We’re scoring on average 2.3 goals per game since January. That’s boring?

I’m convinced you don’t watch United. Either that, or you don’t understand the game.

 

[Ole'sgunnarwin]

Aren't we 4th in the PL injury table?

Yes 3 teams have had worse injuries than us. We've only really seriously had a CB and LB injury all season.

I've seen people taking on this thread talking about a safe space for people who want to keep Ten Hag in. Genuinely the most pathetic weasels you could ever come across. We've a goal difference of -3 and Arsenal has one of +60. Anyone defending this can go and do one.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

I’m convinced you don’t watch United. Either that, or you don’t understand the game.

You can’t say the end to end is boring.

 

[lysglimt]

The main problem isn't our injuries - yes we have been ravaged in defense, but we have strikers who don't score goals, midfielders who let opponents ran past us and a goalkeeper who can't save shots. And let's be honest, we have looked crap even when the majority of our problems have been available - just slightly less crap

 

[Fallon d'Floor]

No one else has had the injuries we had to deal with - not even close

Upfront Ten Hag was failed by the board before the season even started - he was told Mason Greenwood would be part of his squad, then they changed their mind just before the transfer window closed and didn't bring in anyone else

So we went into the season very light upfront - raw Hojlund (who also had some injury issues) with worthless Martial as back up. All summer I had said that we desperately needed another striker and then again in January but nothing.

I suggest you do more research if you actually think that's true. And again, ten Hag's training methods and the recovery techniques we use all need to be questioned.

The fact that he was willing to work with Greenwood is just another reason to dislike him. I don't think ten Hag respects women. He defended his sex pest pal, Overmars, too. What's a little bit of rough roleplay, heh? The shit tactics aside, he he has questionable morals.

The 5 players I mentioned should all be scoring more goals. Rashford aside, Martial had the best goals to minutes ratio under ten Hag last season.

We could have R9 up front, and even he would struggle to score goals in this team.

 

[hobbers]

You can’t say the end to end is boring.

Being dominated by Fulham and Brentford was very, very boring.

And Wolves, Bournemouth twice, West Ham, Palace twice, Burnley, Brighton and Newcastle.

 

[Atheist]

You can’t say the end to end is boring.

We’ve not scored many team goals. A lot of them have been moments involving individual brilliance, which are fine in isolation but hardly indicative of what someone expects from a team when they’re looking for entertainment.

 

[M Bison]

Right, because keeping ETH is what will benefit us in the long term The Structure will come and turn him into Fergie 2.0.

Nothing can possibly be ETH's fault. He only got £450m of players he asked for, does the coaching, decides the system, does the preparation, tactics, and game management, and is responsible for the training intensity and recovery time after games, etc.

If anything he should sack the club for mistreating him.

My view is that its not 1 persons fault, changing the manager on its own wont fix the issues and turn us into title challengers. Without a proper structure in place we're setting any manager up to fail and it wont work, in my view.

 

[hobbers]

My view is that its not 1 persons fault, changing the manager on its own wont fix the issues and turn us into title challengers. Without a proper structure in place we're setting any manager up to fail and it wont work, in my view.

Well I agree with that anyway, but a big chunk of this season is still squarely on ETH.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

Also @Atheist if you consider Ten Hag was told he’d have both players back. From a tactical point of view is there anything the bold you disagree with?

@Atheist

 

[Atheist]

Also @Atheist if you consider Ten Hag was told he’d have both players back. From a tactical point of view is there anything the bold you disagree with?

Our poor performances stretch back to the window including after the league cup win last season. This included results like the 7-0 to Liverpool, 4-0 to Brighton, defeats to West Ham and very lucky victories against Fulham. In these games, we didn’t have any of the injuries and still played dreadfully and conceded plenty of goals.


It’s really not clear to me that just having those individuals would mean we’d start playing well with the tactics we have under Ten Hag. We’ve lost games where Shaw has played this season (Bournemouth) convincingly so I don’t think that excuse flies. If he needs all of his first choice players fit to be able to win games against mid-table sides, then I don’t think that’s a good sign for a Man Utd manager - they need to be able to adapt and get results in adverse situations. Doesn’t seem like Ten Hag is in anyway willing to change and adapt to circumstances.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

Our poor performances stretch back to the window including after the league cup win last season. This included results like the 7-0 to Liverpool, 4-0 to Brighton, defeats to West Ham and very lucky victories against Fulham. In these games, we didn’t have any of the injuries and still played dreadfully and conceded plenty of goals.


It’s really not clear to me that just having those individuals would mean we’d start playing well with the tactics we have under Ten Hag. We’ve lost games where Shaw has played this season (Bournemouth) convincingly so I don’t think that excuse flies. If he needs all of his first choice players fit to be able to win games against mid-table sides, then I don’t think that’s a good sign for a Man Utd manager - they need to be able to adapt and get results in adverse situations. Doesn’t seem like Ten Hag is in anyway willing to change and adapt to circumstances.

So to be clear you disagree with all 4 points:

1. The drop down from having Shaw or Malacia to any of Lindelof, AWB, Dalot or Amrabat causes significant structural and tactical problems at LB
2. This decreases the defensive stability, the ability to progress out from the back.
3. This also hampers our ability to attack down the left hand side as it limits our overlapping play.
4. It also impacts our midfield as we have no one happy to tuck inside to form a LCB or LDM role.

You don’t believe any of those are true in the absence of a LB like Shaw?

This is before we consider that even the replacement LBs not only are they not LBs but they also aren’t consistent in who plays there.

 

[soapythecat]

You can’t say the end to end is boring.

The end to end is not equal. We are getting dry humped. It’s not boring, it’s depressing.

 

[Gandalf]

The problems exposed in our opening game of the season have not been resolved, not a single one. He has had his first choice players available at times but it made no difference, he is totally incapable of solving even simple structural issues within the team. Not being able to change tactics or admit when his plan is not working is nothing to do with the hierarchy or larger issues at the club, it is entirely down to the manager. The level of incompetence combined with arrogance that he displays weekly makes him for me the worst manager of the post Fergie era and his attitude is frankly an insult to the fans.

 

[Redstain]

The problems exposed in our opening game of the season have not been resolved, not a single one. He has had his first choice players available at times but it made no difference, he is totally incapable of solving even simple structural issues within the team. Not being able to change tactics or admit when his plan is not working is nothing to do with the hierarchy or larger issues at the club, it is entirely down to the manager. The level of incompetence combined with arrogance that he displays weekly makes him for me the worst manager of the post Fergie era and his attitude is frankly an insult to the fans.

I keep reiterating this, even we give consideration to last season the fully fit team beyond February / March performed quite badly but pragmatism determined results.

It's a fundamental reminder to many sentimental fans that the performances are the only dimension a team carries from one season to another. Erik has done nothing to build the teams momentum in this regard, he decided to essentially abandon what conjured some success last season with the double pivot midfield and I imagine if he was to stay he could determine a new approach again in the summer, it's basically a reset every single season from a tactical standpoint.

 

[glazed]

Reasonable people can disagree on whether ETH should be sacked. However I don't think any sensible person thinks he won't get sacked in the summer if not before. It's all a bit pointless in that sense. Surely you can't come back from this even if it wasn't your fault?

 

[Leftback99]

Reasonable people can disagree on whether ETH should be sacked. However I don't think any sensible person thinks he won't get sacked in the summer if not before. It's all a bit pointless in that sense. Surely you can't come back from this even if it wasn't your fault?

He should definitely be sacked but I don't think he will be.

 

[Who's Kissing Cameras?]

Nothing more. I just thought it would be a struggle for us to finish within the top 8 positions.

There’s no chance you thought at the start of this season we’d struggle to finish in the top 8? That is a lie.

 

[Rood]

Both Chelsea and Newcastle had more injuries than us this season. That's not debatable, it's a fact.

Transfermarkt link

Liverpool came 3rd despite having a pretty similar number of injuries to us

It's not as simple as numbers of injuries, if your 3rd choice CB and 4th choice midfielder is out the whole season then it doesn't impact as much as a 1st choice player out even 50% of the time

are they playing midfielders in defence?
40+ different back 4 combos?
or having a bench with 2 keepers and 5 completely untried kids?

 

[mu4c_20le]

It's not as simple as numbers of injuries, if your 3rd choice CB and 4th choice midfielder is out the whole season then it doesn't impact as much as a 1st choice player out even 50% of the time

are they playing midfielders in defence?
or having a bench with 2 keepers and 5 completely untried kids?

I mean, they played Dan Burn at CB and he is one of the slowest fullbacks I've ever seen. And still put 4 and 5 past Sheffield and Burnley.

 

[Rood]

I suggest you do more research if you actually think that's true. And again, ten Hag's training methods and the recovery techniques we use all need to be questioned.

The fact that he was willing to work with Greenwood is just another reason to dislike him. I don't think ten Hag respects women. He defended his sex pest pal, Overmars, too. What's a little bit of rough roleplay, heh? The shit tactics aside, he he has questionable morals.

The 5 players I mentioned should all be scoring more goals. Rashford aside, Martial had the best goals to minutes ratio under ten Hag last season.

We could have R9 up front, and even he would struggle to score goals in this team.

I have no interest in your moral analysis of Ten Hag but at least it's clear now that you have a personal vendetta against him.

The point here is that he was completely failed by the board over Greenwood with a major Uturn just before the window shut.

I had no issue with Greenwood going out loan, the problem was the timing and not bringing anyone to replace him.

Going into a season with just Hojlund & Martial as striker options was always likely to end badly, I said as much all summer.

 

[Rightnr]

No one else has had the injuries we had to deal with - not even close

Upfront Ten Hag was failed by the board before the season even started - he was told Mason Greenwood would be part of his squad, then they changed their mind just before the transfer window closed and didn't bring in anyone else

So we went into the season very light upfront - raw Hojlund (who also had some injury issues) with worthless Martial as back up. All summer I had said that we desperately needed another striker and then again in January but nothing.

This is pure club propaganda and simply untrue. Everything that follows this statement is therefore irrelevant, RAWK-style nonsense that tries to put a positive spin on a turd of a season.

 

[Zed 101]

Let me start by saying that I wanted Jose and Ole out when we were in a similar or even a slightly better position. In my mind, not qualifying for the Champions League should've been an automatic sackable offense for any United manager. And I do acknowledge that Ten Hag is in a position where he probably deserves the sack from a performance, results, and signings perspective. Everyone analyzing Man United knows and accepts that a cultural overhaul is needed. But what defines a cultural overhaul? Is it going to be a change in manager or a change in players? Or both? We know changing the manager is the less complicated option. It also gives the players (another) clean slate to perform. But would it really change the culture? Let's look at plausible scenarios of what would/could happen if we change the manager. Many examples are based on recent history.

• We play well next season but not well enough to challenge for the title. Most probably qualify for the Champions League.
• A few players like Varane, Martial, Eriksen, etc., leave the club.
• One of the new signings performs well, and we think that the culture is changing.
• Rashford scores 20+ goals in the season.
• Players suddenly describe the mood as more positive, and they have found 'smiles on their faces.'
• The subsequent season, we are exactly in the same situation we are now, where the same players are either out of form, injured, or have just given up.

I fear that sacking Ten Hag and getting a new manager is going to land us in the exact same space we've been in for many years. And when the new manager comes in, there is an inevitable feeling, and also financial prudence, where we want to give the same players another opportunity. I would hate to see the likes of Rashford being given their nth chance. It is time for the players to shoulder the burden of our lack of performance and success.

However, if we don't sack Ten Hag, it could go one of two ways:
There is a massive change in the playing squad, and Ten Hag knows his neck is now on the line, and we find the rhythm we were expecting this season. Or he's a dead man walking who gets sacked around October-December. However, unlike previous seasons, we would have a proper team functioning who would ensure that there is no misalignment between the players we have and have signed in the summer, with the new manager who comes in.

Let me be clear. I'm not confident of success if Ten Hag stays. But I would hate for this squad to outlast another manager and then find that the same two-year cycle under a new manager with the same/similar players is happening again. Hence, because we have shown faith in Ten Hag as a high-quality coach, maybe it's time to back him when he would be in a similar structure to when he's thrived previously.

So why you start a new thread for an opinion which has been voiced numerous times in the ETH thread, hubris? there is nothing new here needs merging

 

[glazed]

He should definitely be sacked but I don't think he will be.

I can't think of another manager who has survived such a poor performance at such a big club.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/sport/fo...-erik-ten-hag-martin-samuel-comment-0s6s8w9p5


Ten Hag has three games to avoid becoming United’s first Premier League manager to record a negative goal difference and letting in just three more goals will make this United’s poorest defensive account, too. On 14 occasions in all competitions United have conceded three goals or more.

And that has got to register with an organisation as ruthless and methodical as Ineos, more than one glorious moment in the sun. The plan, plainly, was for a lengthy internal appraisal unfolding while the team ticked over under Ten Hag, with a decision on the way forward at the end. That no longer seems possible because the team no longer tick over. The change is going to have to be made this summer, more pressingly than anticipated.

 

[didz]

This is pure club propaganda and simply untrue. Everything that follows this statement is therefore irrelevant, RAWK-style nonsense that tries to put a positive spin on a turd of a season.

It is a very influential propaganda department that forces the club the play with over 40 combinations at the back, with no left back at all for around 75% of the season, and without his key players combined ever having been available.

He'll probably go, but he has definitely been dealt a bad hand.

 

[stevoc]

It is a very influential propaganda department that forces the club the play with over 40 combinations at the back, with no left back at all for around 75% of the season, and without his key players combined ever having been available.

He'll probably go, but he has definitely been dealt a bad hand.

Didn't we have Reguilon until January and then Shaw from was it December until February?

 

[didz]

Didn't we have Reguilon until January and then Shaw from was it December until February?

He was always ill or injured, which is why he completed 90 minutes just twice. We signed a left back who'd spent most of his last season injured to replace our injured left backs.

But I'm not able to argue with you so unfortunately we'll just have to leave it there.

 

[Zed 101]

It is a very influential propaganda department that forces the club the play with over 40 combinations at the back, with no left back at all for around 75% of the season, and without his key players combined ever having been available.

He'll probably go, but he has definitely been dealt a bad hand.

This 40 combinations *have seen numerous figures used but lets go with 40) a large proportion was not forced, we have not had only 2 (or fewer) CBs available at any one time all season, many of the back 4 combinations have been choices made by ETH, like benching Varane for a couple of months, playing the speedy Amrabat at LB, but yeah lets say 40 forced combinations to spin this to look like ETH has done everything he can in the face of unsurmountable odds.... so answer this then, why? if the back 4 has been such a problem has ETH left them so exposed, playing a 4-1-5 formation for most of the season.... if as you say the back line has been the issue (and it has not, the back line has actually defended pretty well) then surely this highlights ETH's flaws as a manger because it seems he has been doing his utmost to expose them

 

[Rightnr]

It is a very influential propaganda department that forces the club the play with over 40 combinations at the back, with no left back at all for around 75% of the season, and without his key players combined ever having been available.

He'll probably go, but he has definitely been dealt a bad hand.

Did it also force the fraud to NOT play our best defender against City at home based some made-up bullshit that he quickly went back on in the Liverpool away and Bayern home games?

No, I didn't think so. Some of you lot really would buy a bridge off this guy morning and night each and every day and keep doing it despite drowning because there is no damn fecking bridge.

 

[stevoc]

He was always ill or injured, which is why he completed 90 minutes just twice. We signed a left back who'd spent most of his last season injured to replace our injured left backs.

But I'm not able to argue with you so unfortunately we'll just have to leave it there.

There were only 5 match day squads he wasn't fit enough to be a member of, 20 match days during his time at the club. There were days Dalot was preferred even though Reguilon was fit and on the bench. And of course we had Shaw available for most of the games between late November to late February. So it definitely wasn't 75% mate, and I think it's fair to say we've established that between August-February we had a LB available for the majority of games. It's only really the last 3 months we've had to make do with Lindelof, Dalot and Wan Bissaka filling in at LB.

I'm not arguing mate, this is a discussion forum, this is how it works. But if you don't like discussing things and/or having your views/claims challenged then fair enough I suppose.

 

[Fallon d'Floor]

My view is that its not 1 persons fault, changing the manager on its own wont fix the issues and turn us into title challengers. Without a proper structure in place we're setting any manager up to fail and it wont work, in my view.

We wouldn't be changing the manager on his own and nobody expects to challenge next season.

I have no interest in your moral analysis of Ten Hag but at least it's clear now that you have a personal vendetta against him.

The point here is that he was completely failed by the board over Greenwood with a major Uturn just before the window shut.

I had no issue with Greenwood going out loan, the problem was the timing and not bringing anyone to replace him.

Going into a season with just Hojlund & Martial as striker options was always likely to end badly, I said as much all summer.

You're working off the assumption that Greenwood would have performed under ten Hag. He's had an okay season in La Liga.

Weghorst and Martial were enough to get top 4 last season. Højlund has been an upgrade on Weghorst. Again, there's no excuse for our 5 main attackers only scoring 33 PL goals between them.

At least we now know that you're not a fence sitter. You lean more towards ten Hag.

Thank feck the board did a U-turn after public pressure. One of the few things the club has got right since 2013. Boooooo. Morals.

ten Hag is a questionable individual. There's not getting around it. From Promes, Overmars and Greenwood. Dodgy stuff.

 

[Red00012]

Granted we’ve had a lot of injuries but it’s Martinez and Shaw have been the standout injuries. Bruno v palace perhaps and maybe Varane and throw in Hojlund’s injury just as he was hitting form. But our injuries have mainly been out of form players we don’t miss. And our injuries have nothing to do with our -3 GD in the attacking sense.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

At this rate we are going with "ETH in" posters, we don't even need a coach next season. As long as we have a good football structure set up by Ineos we will play good football. Don't blame the manager even though it was so obvious that tactics is the problem and not the structure (yes, it's partly a problem) when you are outplayed by Palace and toe to toe with fecking Coventry.

 

[Winrar]

At this rate we are going with "ETH in" posters, we don't even need a coach next season. As long as we have a good football structure set up by Ineos we will play good football. Don't blame the manager even though it was so obvious that tactics is the problem and not the structure (yes, it's partly a problem) when you are outplayed by Palace and toe to toe with fecking Coventry.

If you give any manager 5 years at our club, regardless of performances, there’s a chance that he will turn into Sir Alex Ferguson.

No club or manager has ever had to adapt to injuries in key positions, until Ten Hag at United.

C’mon, don’t you know all of this already?

 

[Winrar]

We joke but it seems like some people really think that way.

Having SAF in charge for 26 years was truly a blessing for the club. But at the same time that prolonged period of success unfortunately warped the minds of many United fans (to be fair, including myself as well for some time) who have gotten wrong ideas of what it takes to be a successful manager at a club.

 

[didz]

Did it also force the fraud to NOT play our best defender against City at home based some made-up bullshit that he quickly went back on in the Liverpool away and Bayern home games?

No, I didn't think so. Some of you lot really would buy a bridge off this guy morning and night each and every day and keep doing it despite drowning because there is no damn fecking bridge.

I don't believe that this is a fair representation of my argument, not the facts, but since I can't argue with you, we'll just have to leave it where it lies.

 

[didz]

There were only 5 match day squads he wasn't fit enough to be a member of 20 match days during his time at the club. There were days Dalot was preferred even though Reguilon was fit and on the bench. And of course we had Shaw available for most of the games between late November to late February. So it definitely wasn't 75% mate, and I think it's fair to say we've established that between August-February we had a LB available for the majority of games. It's only really the last 3 months we've had to make do with Lindelof, Dalot and Wan Bissaka filling in at LB.

I'm not arguing mate, this is a discussion forum, this is how it works. But if you don't like discussing things and/or having your views/claims challenged then fair enough I suppose.

I would love to continue discussion, but unfortunately I don't know you. Which means I don't know whether or not continuing this discussion will lead to you calling me names. All I know is that if you do decide to do so, it will be me that suffers the consequences.