VAR and Refs | General Discussion

Oranges038

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He's literally lunging and ends up on the floor?

And anyway that's irrelevant - the rules aren't based on where you end up. It's on where the studs land and this is on the Brentford player's shins.
Yes, but Casemeiro was a lunging sliding tackle. He went over the ball because of the impact with the ball and the other player.

Lavia's is more of a standing tackle where both players go into it and he ends up going over the ball, mostly because of the impact as well.

Neither is a red in my opinion.
 

Zlatan 7

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Yes, but Casemeiro was a lunging sliding tackle. He went over the ball because of the impact with the ball and the other player.

Lavia's is more of a standing tackle where both players go into it and he ends up going over the ball, mostly because of the impact as well.

Neither is a red in my opinion.
Seems to be more force and straight leg in lavias tackle to me whether he was stood or not, Casemiro bent his knee to reduce the force.
 

Kaos

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Both obvious red cards. The inconsistency is maddening.
Yeah that's the frustration essentially - the fact we've been frequently on the wrong end of this inconsistency - the 'chokes', the penalties not given to us (but similar ones given to our rivals) and now this tackle.
 

Pogue Mahone

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Yeah that's the frustration essentially - the fact we've been frequently on the wrong end of this inconsistency - the 'chokes', the penalties not given to us (but similar ones given to our rivals) and now this tackle.
It’s very hard to know how often we are on the wrong end of crap decisions vs everyone else. Every fan always thinks their team is the most sinned against. Let‘s not forget that even in the specific example of Casemiro’s red vs the one last night, the only club who’s been treated unfairly is actually Brentford.

My beef will always be with VAR. It’s unacceptable to be STILL feeling hard done by after obviously bad decisions despite having to accept the many downsides of VAR. And I will never accept it as necessary even if the only downside was the way it’s spoilt the spontaneous joy of celebrating every goal that has even a hint of offside. So fecked up that my instant reaction to more or less every second goal my team scores has gone from “FECK YEAH!!!!” to “hmmm, that’ll be checked, might be offside “
 

Abizzz

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It’s very hard to know how often we are on the wrong end of crap decisions vs everyone else. Every fan always thinks their team is the most sinned against. Let‘s not forget that even in the specific example of Casemiro’s red vs the one last night, the only club who’s been treated unfairly is actually Brentford.

My beef will always be with VAR. It’s unacceptable to be STILL feeling hard done by after obviously bad decisions despite having to accept the many downsides of VAR. And I will never accept it as necessary even if the only downside was the way it’s spoilt the spontaneous joy of celebrating every goal that has even a hint of offside. So fecked up that my instant reaction to more or less every second goal my team scores has gone from “FECK YEAH!!!!” to “hmmm, that’ll be checked, might be offside “
Yeah, used to be a glance to the side and if the linesman was running to the middle you knew you were good. I miss it too.
 

Pogue Mahone

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Yeah, used to be a glance to the side and if the linesman was running to the middle you knew you were good. I miss it too.
Exactly. And it’s ruining the experience for me, someone who mainly watches on telly (and hasn’t been to a match since VAR came in) so does at least see all the replays. Must be fecking intolerable when you’re at the stadium.
 

Pexbo

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Yeah that's the frustration essentially - the fact we've been frequently on the wrong end of this inconsistency - the 'chokes', the penalties not given to us (but similar ones given to our rivals) and now this tackle.
Put yourself in the position of the referees.

If you give United the benefit of the doubt and award a decision to United you come under the microscope for the next few weeks or months.

If you don’t give United the benefit of the doubt, there is radio silence and you get an easy life.


Take the four penalty decisions that went against us. None of them featured on MOTD. Of even one of them was at the other end of the pitch let alone four and none of them were reviewed by VAR there would be questions on every football review show and it would be raised again and again before big matches putting pressure on the next referee.


It sounds like rawkish victim moaning but when it’s happening week in week out and the media are complicit with never holding the referee to account when it’s the opposition benefitting and spend weeks talking about it when it’s us it gets very frustrating.
 

mctrials23

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If you give United the benefit of the doubt and award a decision to United you come under the microscope for the next few weeks or months.

If you don’t give United the benefit of the doubt, there is radio silence and you get an easy life.
This is the reality of it. We genuinely could have had 4 penalties. If the ref had looked at any of them properly on the pitch side monitor they would have been given. 3 of them at least were stone wall. We get none. There isn't a single word about it. We get a controversial goal vs City and its spoken about for weeks like it was the worst decision ever despite being very much in a grey area.

Referees are incompetent but its costing us big time this season. I can't speak for other sides but we have definitely been on the wrong side of it far more than the right.
 

Oldham

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You also have the incident when Martinez was elbowed against Crystal Palace... How and why that was not a red is mind boggling for me.
 

Stactix

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It's infuriating seeing decisions like Lavias going unpunished. With Casemiro still on the pitch Utd would have very likely won. So that's 2 points & he's missing for 4 games.
When in the same fecking game week, there were atleast half a dozen decisions that were similar, in some cases worse. Those players would also be banned if there was consistency but could now potentially score/injure someone.

In the same fecking incident with his previous Redcard, a palace player committed something arguably worse no punishment.
Multiple identical situations since then, no punishment.

My memory might be rusty but if I recall correctly the shitstain that injured Eriksen should have been sent off prior to that foul?
Then the Garnacho foul.

Both of the casemiro incidents the opposing players weren't injured, barely made a meal of the incident yet red card.
Then you have decisions which are stonewall or cause serious injury and the players cause a scene.. no foul, no decision.

It's utterly comical.
 
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Pogue Mahone

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Put yourself in the position of the referees.

If you give United the benefit of the doubt and award a decision to United you come under the microscope for the next few weeks or months.

If you don’t give United the benefit of the doubt, there is radio silence and you get an easy life.



Take the four penalty decisions that went against us. None of them featured on MOTD. Of even one of them was at the other end of the pitch let alone four and none of them were reviewed by VAR there would be questions on every football review show and it would be raised again and again before big matches putting pressure on the next referee.


It sounds like rawkish victim moaning but when it’s happening week in week out and the media are complicit with never holding the referee to account when it’s the opposition benefitting and spend weeks talking about it when it’s us it gets very frustrating.
Is that right? I can think of two obvious examples where a ref could easily have given a penalty against United but didn’t. Martinez on Welbeck and Varane on Wilson. Each of those incidents at least as obvious a penalty as any we haven’t been given. Neither of those incidents got undue coverage in the following weeks.

It’s definitely true that decisions in big matches, featuring big clubs, get more focus but there’s a number of other clubs this applies to. Not just United.
 

Bubz27

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I'm sorry but that Pellestri yellow card is one of the worst decisions I've ever seen.
 

Bubz27

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It's purely because Betis are complaining about absolutely everything and have made the referee think he needs to make amends for something.
 

Sviken

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The problem is we don't make a lot of noise when this shit happens. We just sit back and take it and ABUs are out in full force crying about how all refs are in United's pocket. If this is to change, we have to take a stand against the media propaganda against us and be vocal about refs that are quite midly to put it - not up for it.
 

Cpt Negative

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Because he got sent off on Sunday and the tackle in question was last night. The point I was getting is you can’t wait 3 days to hope a similar tackle comes along before appealing

a more sensible approach would have been to dossier every other tackle like that from the same weekend and use that
 

Dan_F

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The tackle last night was more of a red than Casemiro’s in term of danger to the opponent. The tackler was going head on into the other player, with Casemiro, he was sliding well in front of where the player’s legs were - it was only the touch of the ball that caused his foot to move out at a weird angle.
 

RedRocket9908

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Thats a really strange one that VAR review that just ruled out Newcastles 2nd goal for offside, if the defender delibrately played the ball that puts him onside dosnt it.
 

Samid

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Honestly one of the most baffling calls I've seen this season. And that's saying something because I watch us get shafted on a weekly basis.
 

Anustart89

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Thats a really strange one that VAR review that just ruled out Newcastles 2nd goal for offside, if the defender delibrately played the ball that puts him onside dosnt it.
Same as our goal against Reading where deliberately playing the ball doesn't count as deliberately playing the ball, except for when someone flicks a header on to Salah :rolleyes:
 

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Honestly one of the most baffling calls I've seen this season. And that's saying something because I watch us get shafted on a weekly basis.
I was fine with it, he challenged for the ball from and offside position and directly impacted the defender as a result
 

Anustart89

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I was fine with it, he challenged for the ball from and offside position and directly impacted the defender as a result
The second guy was challenged for the ball, but what about the first guy who cleared it out to the second guy? IMO offside should've reset on deliberate play by defender in the middle.
 

90 + 5min

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It

If this seriously is offside then the game is completely broken.
Game is broken for some time now. I have no clue what is happening. And looking by comments and so on, nobody has. Time for someone to explain rules so people understand.
 

Gio

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I was fine with it, he challenged for the ball from and offside position and directly impacted the defender as a result
Yeah clear-cut to me. Gains a big advantage from putting pressure on the defender from an offside position.
 

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The second guy was challenged for the ball, but what about the first guy who cleared it out to the second guy? IMO offside should've reset on deliberate play by defender in the middle.
That's a clearance... It's the reason why that Salah goal vs Wolves (?) should have been offside.

If a player is just heading it or hacking it clear then that shouldn't be seen as "deliberate" IMO
 

Anustart89

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That's a clearance... It's the reason why that Salah goal vs Wolves (?) should have been offside.

If a player is just heading it or hacking it clear then that shouldn't be seen as "deliberate" IMO
I agree and that’s why I can understand why our goal against Reading was disallowed because he just threw out his leg behind him to redirect the ball to Weghorst. But the clearance from the middle wasn’t obstructed in any way and he made a deliberate kick at the ball. I mean, we’ve seen how slide tackles that just nudge the ball are classed as deliberate plays (mbappe Nation’s League final, Kane one against Liverpool, Wolves defender flick to Salah), yet the Forest defender swinging his leg and clearing it out of the middle isn’t deliberately playing the ball? Doesn’t make sense to me.
 

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On another day (for another team) one or both of those penalty incidents would be flagged by VAR and a penalty is awarded (and arguably the one on Garnacho, no idea how that wasn't deemed as bad or worse than Caemiro's). But in 26 matches now in the Premier League we've had 2 penalties and one of those when we were 6 goals down. We've had multiple stone wall penalties not only not given but half the time they don't even bother to review hem. I'm long past the point where I even expect them to review them or ever give us one. I wouldn't be surprised if we don't get another penalty for the rest of the season as it's obvious to me we just aren't getting penalties for whatever reason.

In fact the only penalty we've had this season that we gained something from was vs Palace. Which was the same game that Andre Mariner and the VAR team decided they needed to even up by picking Casemiro grabbing someone's collar out of a 20 man scuffle full of pushes, grabs and slaps and give him a red card. The same Andre Mariner that went against protocol yesterday and asked the Ref to review a decision that he'd already seen and booked someone for, which wasn't a clear and obvious error.
 

SilentWitness

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Remember when we all hated how Mike Dean would want the game to be about him and how he wanted to have a say in title and relegation battles? Well, now we have a whole fecking team of refs that do.
 

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As funny as it is seeing Spurs draw, it's amazing how little common sense was applied to that Saints penalty decision. The guy launched himself at the ball and kicked it straight at his own player who lost control immediately. He was probably going to be stumbling to get back up even if he wasn't slightly brushed by the Spurs defender so there was very little chance of any advantage being played.
 

Hulme91

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If a scrape is good enough for a penalty (and even that's being kind for that Saints incident) how does Rashford not get a penalty last week?

Inconsistency again :wenger:
 

stevoc

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It's been obvious for years now that Refs are reluctant to give United big decisions for fear of the media backlash. To the point where we rarely even get a stone wall pen awarded.

When we got that run of penalties 2 years ago when VAR first came in, that was probably because the refs knew their decisions were being reviewed and they had to give them. Of the pens we were given only the Bruno vs Villa was even debatable.

But all it took was Turkey teeth moaning about it in a presser, the press picking up the story and making a big deal about it for them to shit themselves about giving United a penalty again.