[Grande]

What, he should have evacuated his place to cover for Maguire and open more space of upcoming players as well? He did nothing wrong in the goal.

It would be possible to leave that player to Wan Bissaka, then again, the probable consequence would have been for Bergwijn to pus the ball towards Spurs’ left side where the route towards goal would have been open. Lindelöf would probably get some critique for that as well. In truth, Maguire should be aware of the space between them, Maguire should lead Bergwijn towards the outside, and Maguire should stand off to buy time instead of selling himself as the last man. It’s three mestakes in one, hard to guard against that. Then again, Maguire didn’t make more mistakes in the game than Alderwereild and Sanchez did. Sometimes luck plays a part, the punished player always looks worse than the lucky one. Over time it evens out, and over time De Gea, Lindelöf and Maguire have let in 3 goals in 12 games, so hysterics like Roy Keanecan do one (no, I wouldn’t have phrased it that way if he was in the room).

 

[Red_toad]

£50m and you will get someone who might improve the defence slightly. If United want to buy a CB that is guaranteed to dramatically improve defence (let’s say 21 goals conceded instead of 31) there are not many available. And he should compliment Maguire and he should not be very old. It will cost £90-150m and still there is no guarantee.

We have players who are better suited to be Harry's partner, they're made of glass though. There are some exceptional young defenders out there who'd be an upgrade on Victor, who'd cost nowhere near 100 million. If the club wishes to improve we can't really have a team that has to work to its cover deficiencies rather than play to its strengths.
I don't get where people are coming from making out Lindelof is one of the best players in Europe in his position and would be very difficult to replace? He's a decent player who can perform very well on his day, has no outstanding attributes and tends to be a tad passive for a central defender. For me he's a squad player.

 

[Andycoleno9]

When you buy defender for 80 mil and you need to buy another who will suit him. Great plan.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Not his biggest fan but I thought he played fine - could have helped more with the goal but he seemed more concerned with Kane which I can't really blame him.

For god sakes though Victor PLEASE stop being such a pussy! I can't believe he let Kane give him a tiny shove in the back and conceded a corner, it's fecking embarrasing!

If we'd have conceded from that corner I think I would have had a stroke.

 

[elmo]

We have players who are better suited to be Harry's partner, they're made of glass though. There are some exceptional young defenders out there who'd be an upgrade on Victor, who'd cost nowhere near 100 million. If the club wishes to improve we can't really have a team that has to work to its cover deficiencies rather than play to its strengths.
I don't get where people are coming from making out Lindelof is one of the best players in Europe in his position and would be very difficult to replace? He's a decent player who can perform very well on his day, has no outstanding attributes and tends to be a tad passive for a central defender. For me he's a squad player.

Apart from one or two posters, I don't think anyone on here really rates him that much.

 

[Fosu-Mens]

When you buy defender for 80 mil and you need to buy another who will suit him. Great plan.

You mean; cover for his lack of mobility?

Better replacing both. Only defence Maguire is good enough in, is a parked one. And that will not get us anywhere.

 

[A-man]

We have players who are better suited to be Harry's partner, they're made of glass though. There are some exceptional young defenders out there who'd be an upgrade on Victor, who'd cost nowhere near 100 million. If the club wishes to improve we can't really have a team that has to work to its cover deficiencies rather than play to its strengths.
I don't get where people are coming from making out Lindelof is one of the best players in Europe in his position and would be very difficult to replace? He's a decent player who can perform very well on his day, has no outstanding attributes and tends to be a tad passive for a central defender. For me he's a squad player.

I don’t agree with that. We don’t have “players who are better suited”. Who would they be? The only player I see who can compete and who is on the same level as Lindelof, is Bailly. His disadvantages are that he has never shown consistency, and he has had more poor than good performances. But I would say he is at the same level, but not that he would improve the defence significantly.
Tuanzebe has not shown anything imo. He has played half a season Championship football plus a handful PL matches. Think he has only played one full PL game as CB. There is nothing that indicates that he would improve United’s defence significantly.
Jones has had good patches but will not improve the defence and neither will Rojo.

The young CBs you talk about, outside United, are projects and taking a risk. If you want guaranteed performance you need to pay up, simple as that. And still it is not a guarantee.

 

[SATA]

This is what Lindeolf should have done last night.

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That was class defending from Bailly. If that was Lindelof, he would probably have put his hand up and appeal for offside. I hate dissing our players but that’s very likely what Lindelof would do

 

[A-man]

That was class defending from Bailly. If that was Lindelof, he would probably have put his hand up and appeal for offside. I hate dissing our players but that’s very likely what Lindelof would do

Or he would do something like this? It’s always easy to find something in highlights material.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Or he would do something like this? It’s always easy to find something in highlights material.

Covering Maguire there who just stands. On all threads (Maguire, Lindelof, Lindelof-Maguire partnership) all conversations went in direction who can cover for Maguire. It is only me who finds that funny? Wasn't a point of buying 80mil defender to have someone who will cover for others in defence, organise defence etc...? So if he needs someone to cover him what is his exact role in our team? To clear crosses?

 

[MikeKing]

Or he would do something like this? It’s always easy to find something in highlights material.

That is great defending from Lindelof, something we don't see enough of from him. I value defenders who does shit like that, on a regular basis to the point it looks just effortless and as a spectator you barely take notice. We don't have that reliability since we offloaded Smalling, and despite spending 80m on Maguire we still haven't got a balanced partnership.

 

[Ekeke]

Or he would do something like this? It’s always easy to find something in highlights material.

Thats a smaller distance and needed none of the speed that was needed against Spurs. This one was a perfect example of what Lindelof wants to do, he didnt have to move a lot and then a player shot towards him so he was happy to make the tackle feeling confident he'd get the ball. He's attempted 25 tackles in 27 starts, thats where the problem is. Bailly wont get that high speed comitted defending right every time, but you know he's always going to try and get there whether he wins it or gives away a penalty. You cant fault him for trying.

 

[A-man]

Covering Maguire there who just stands. On all threads (Maguire, Lindelof, Lindelof-Maguire partnership) all conversations went in direction who can cover for Maguire. It is only me who finds that funny? Wasn't a point of buying 80mil defender to have someone who will cover for others in defence, organise defence etc...? So if he needs someone to cover him what is his exact role in our team? To clear crosses?

It is weird in a way, I guess. But it is clear he has brought improvement and stability. Overall it is not many goals conceded because of this weakness.

That is great defending from Lindelof, something we don't see enough of from him. I value defenders who does shit like that, on a regular basis to the point it looks just effortless and as a spectator you barely take notice. We don't have that reliability since we offloaded Smalling, and despite spending 80m on Maguire we still haven't got a balanced partnership.

Yes he needs to work on that more aggressive side. However I don’t see many goals that would have been prevented from a “more balanced partnership”. Most of the time they read each other pretty well.

Thats a smaller distance and needed none of the speed that was needed against Spurs. This one was a perfect example of what Lindelof wants to do, he didnt have to move a lot and then a player shot towards him so he was happy to make the tackle feeling confident he'd get the ball. He's attempted 25 tackles in 27 starts, thats where the problem is. Bailly wont get that high speed comitted defending right every time, but you know he's always going to try and get there whether he wins it or gives away a penalty. You cant fault him for trying.

This example doesn’t have anything to do with speed, it is more very good reading of the game and proactivness instead of reactive defending. Bailly would maybe save a few goals per season with his speed, but also cost some extra conceded goals. Agree he always try to attack the ball and player. It’s his strength and his weakness and that’s why I think he is a poor fit for Maguire. Both AWB and Maguire would be held back to cover for him.

 

[MikeKing]

Yes he needs to work on that more aggressive side. However I don’t see many goals that would have been prevented from a “more balanced partnership”. Most of the time they read each other pretty well.

Maybe you are right, because I guess they have a decent connection yeah. It's just that for me, a balanced partnership in this context has the implication of quality to consider. Maguire's flaws and the imbalance with their similarities might not be the main problem, but when the quality of the two players generally isn't quite there yet comparing them to like Rio and Vidic, then somethings got to give. On one hand, you have the most expensive defender of all time trying to live up to that standard and on the other you have a swedish guy just trying to impress enough to keep his place. It is not that Lindelof is that bad, he is just not good enough while Maguire might still be someday imo, with the right partner to compliment him as well.

 

[A-man]

Maybe you are right, because I guess they have a decent connection yeah. It's just that for me, a balanced partnership in this context has the implication of quality to consider. Maguire's flaws and the imbalance with their similarities might not be the main problem, but when the quality of the two players generally isn't quite there yet comparing them to like Rio and Vidic, then somethings got to give. On one hand, you have the most expensive defender of all time trying to live up to that standard and on the other you have a swedish guy just trying to impress enough to keep his place. It is not that Lindelof is that bad, he is just not good enough while Maguire might still be someday imo, with the right partner to compliment him as well.

We have played almost a whole season with DDG- AWB- Lindelof- Maguire and Shaw (sometimes Williams) and Fred. I think that has built stability and connection between all of them. For a defence, continuity is very important.
I have the, maybe naive idea that the whole team will be much more balanced now when Pogba is back. I hope this will influence all parts of the team.

 

[Andycoleno9]

It is weird in a way, I guess. But it is clear he has brought improvement and stability. Overall it is not many goals conceded because of this weakness.

Absolutely. He did brought stability and above all calmness which we lacked many years under Rojo, Jones and Smalling who all too often were in panic mode. Just i have a feeling thatc his pace is damaging us ( not allowing us to play with high defence). Nevertheless, i don't know why people are unhappy with Maguire-Lindelof partnership. I think that they are doing just fine together

 

[A-man]

Absolutely. He did brought stability and above all calmness which we lacked many years under Rojo, Jones and Smalling who all too often were in panic mode. Just i have a feeling thatc his pace is damaging us ( not allowing us to play with high defence). Nevertheless, i don't know why people are unhappy with Maguire-Lindelof partnership. I think that they are doing just fine together

I think it is easy to see what you miss, and not appreciate what you have. As example: With the four at the back and especially Lindelof-Maguire, it is now very difficult for the other team to press them to mistakes. Most teams give up after chasing the ball for five minutes.

 

[MikeKing]

I think it is easy to see what you miss, and not appreciate what you have. As example: With the four at the back and especially Lindelof-Maguire, it is now very difficult for the other team to press them to mistakes. Most teams give up after chasing the ball for five minutes.

It's not really that hard because they aren't as cool or cold as you claim when they regularly make mistakes under pressure, yeah it happens still. But it wasn't really a problem until Mourinho came and Lindelof is not even a lot better now than when he arrived. Our defending under Van Gaal were aggressive and on the front foot which kept the ball high up the pitch, and I get a lot more nervous when these defenders go in panic-mode because their pace is a problem they can't work on to fix. If they lose their man, or gets outmuscled that's it he is gone and we're very vulnerable. Maguire doesn't get around quickly enough to cover for Lindelof's lack of involvement so the whole team still have to drop very deep every time our defenders choose to not be proactive in their approach, which happens a lot. It seems a incredibly pretentious to claim teams give up after chasing the ball around for five minutes, and that it is somehow down to Lindelof and what he brings. We're struggling to get into top 4 because we have holes to fix. The CB partnership has definitely been a problem this season even if it works and actually is as good as it gets, that's the problem innit we need better.

 

[bond19821982]

Absolutely. He did brought stability and above all calmness which we lacked many years under Rojo, Jones and Smalling who all too often were in panic mode. Just i have a feeling thatc his pace is damaging us ( not allowing us to play with high defence). Nevertheless, i don't know why people are unhappy with Maguire-Lindelof partnership. I think that they are doing just fine together

Play a low block and they will be one of the best. But play high up the pitch and pacy players will just tear them . We just need a better partner to Maguire. I dont know if Tuanzube is the answer but I would definitely keep Bailey.

 

[A-man]

It's not really that hard because they aren't as cool or cold as you claim when they regularly make mistakes under pressure, yeah it happens still. But it wasn't really a problem until Mourinho came and Lindelof is not even a lot better now than when he arrived. Our defending under Van Gaal were aggressive and on the front foot which kept the ball high up the pitch, and I get a lot more nervous when these defenders go in panic-mode because their pace is a problem they can't work on to fix. If they lose their man, or gets outmuscled that's it he is gone and we're very vulnerable. Maguire doesn't get around quickly enough to cover for Lindelof's lack of involvement so the whole team still have to drop very deep every time our defenders choose to not be proactive in their approach, which happens a lot. It seems a incredibly pretentious to claim teams give up after chasing the ball around for five minutes, and that it is somehow down to Lindelof and what he brings. We're struggling to get into top 4 because we have holes to fix. The CB partnership has definitely been a problem this season even if it works and actually is as good as it gets, that's the problem innit we need better.

The calmness at the back is one of the improvement differences this season. Of course there is a mistake or they get stressed once in a while, but it doea t happen often. It’s rare that a team win against United by pressing United high and to force United to make mistakes under pressure because they panick. Some have tried but most give up as I wrote.
Players like Fred and sometimes Matić often drop deepwithout a reason. They should make themselves available in the midfield instead. You see them do this even against teams who back home with eleven players.

 

[elmo]

Maybe you are right, because I guess they have a decent connection yeah. It's just that for me, a balanced partnership in this context has the implication of quality to consider. Maguire's flaws and the imbalance with their similarities might not be the main problem, but when the quality of the two players generally isn't quite there yet comparing them to like Rio and Vidic, then somethings got to give. On one hand, you have the most expensive defender of all time trying to live up to that standard and on the other you have a swedish guy just trying to impress enough to keep his place. It is not that Lindelof is that bad, he is just not good enough while Maguire might still be someday imo, with the right partner to compliment him as well.

I feel that Lindelof's the new Jonny Evans.

And we know how that ended.

 

[ivaldo]

The calmness at the back is one of the improvement differences this season. Of course there is a mistake or they get stressed once in a while, but it doea t happen often. It’s rare that a team win against United by pressing United high and to force United to make mistakes under pressure because they panick. Some have tried but most give up as I wrote.
Players like Fred and sometimes Matić often drop deepwithout a reason. They should make themselves available in the midfield instead. You see them do this even against teams who back home with eleven players.

Frustrates me. We've got two CBs who are capable passers. There's no need. If they were picking the ball up and spraying it about like Scholes then fair enough, but they aren't.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

Good performance. Was very focused

 

[He'sRaldo]

I like how he moves the ball much quicker than Maguire. It gives good balance between the two. Intelligent player as well.

It's games of his like these that give me hope.

 

[MikeKing]

Couple of moments he could have imposed himself a bit better, but pretty much a perfect game from him. Looked better than Maguire to me honestly.

 

[MikeKing]

The calmness at the back is one of the improvement differences this season. Of course there is a mistake or they get stressed once in a while, but it doea t happen often. It’s rare that a team win against United by pressing United high and to force United to make mistakes under pressure because they panick. Some have tried but most give up as I wrote.
Players like Fred and sometimes Matić often drop deepwithout a reason. They should make themselves available in the midfield instead. You see them do this even against teams who back home with eleven players.

If we are dropping deep to accommodate the soft playing out from the back, then it doesn't do much good if we aren't able to make a quick turnover in possession. Against Sheffield today I think it worked pretty well, because we kept possession and had creative players to feed our trio. However, a lot of times this season we have played our way out of soft pressure too deep, too slow, just keeping possession in defence for no reason. To me it isn't very calming or helpful if a defender is stressed in the moments that count, plays a good possession game very deep and is pondering on the ball when going forward. This has happened a lot this season. No point in keeping possession in defence just to always end up in welcomed by a wall of defenders sitting deep once you go forward, it's hard to break down a team that isn't out of balance. I get that it's a learning curve too for the team, but to say Lindelof has brought any calmness is weird. He is hoofing and clearing balls, heading balls to opposition players, losing duels no different to most CB's and our team has to drop back deep quite a lot due to him not being able to intercept and tackle higher up the pitch. Almost every time he tries to be aggressive he gets outmuscled or turned and the opposition gets a break off it.

He was really good today and did a lot of good things. I didn't enjoy all of it, but he displayed a controlled defensive performance. He really only pondered on the ball one time late in the game, that isn't a lot so it represents good progress if he can keep that up.

 

[A-man]

If we are dropping deep to accommodate the soft playing out from the back, then it doesn't do much good if we aren't able to make a quick turnover in possession. Against Sheffield today I think it worked pretty well, because we kept possession and had creative players to feed our trio. However, a lot of times this season we have played our way out of soft pressure too deep, too slow, just keeping possession in defence for no reason. To me it isn't very calming or helpful if a defender is stressed in the moments that count, plays a good possession game very deep and is pondering on the ball when going forward. This has happened a lot this season. No point in keeping possession in defence just to always end up in welcomed by a wall of defenders sitting deep once you go forward, it's hard to break down a team that isn't out of balance. I get that it's a learning curve too for the team, but to say Lindelof has brought any calmness is weird. He is hoofing and clearing balls, heading balls to opposition players, losing duels no different to most CB's and our team has to drop back deep quite a lot due to him not being able to intercept and tackle higher up the pitch. Almost every time he tries to be aggressive he gets outmuscled or turned and the opposition gets a break off it.

He was really good today and did a lot of good things. I didn't enjoy all of it, but he displayed a controlled defensive performance. He really only pondered on the ball one time late in the game, that isn't a lot so it represents good progress if he can keep that up.

First of all I don’t say Lindelof has brought calmness. It’s the four at the back together. Yes they had possession yesterday, and part of that is because they are good at it at the back, plus they easily played their way out of press the few times Sheffield tried to put pressure.

I strongly believe this will work much better now with two creative midfielders and hopefully Fred does’t drop unnecessary deep all the time just to collect the ball, but instead make himself available for a pass.

McT, Lindelof and AWB have had several situations where they have played their way through press and straight up to attacking players. It happened a few times yesterday as well, without McT. I couldn’t find a perfect example but see around 78 min for what I mean.

When it comes to Lindelof, the critique has often been that he is not clearing the ball often enough, but you seem to think he clears it too much (if I understood you correctly?).

His role has clearly been to clean up behind Maguire and to let him win the ball higher up. We have seen that change sometimes very late in matches. I personally agree with you that there are matches where we would benefit if they both aimed to win back the ball early to keep pressure. It would probably come at the cost of a goal or two but could be worth it. It is probably a mix of Lindelof’s style of playing and Ole’s tactics that they they play like they do today in this aspect.
edit: 92:20 min in yesterday’s match is a little example of their roles. Maguire attacks the ball higher and Lindelof cover if he misses.

 

[Andycoleno9]

I will repeat....Lindelof is a beast. So cool, calm, reading the game well, again not beaten by any player, covered Harry when needed.
We have great defensive pair.

 

[He'sRaldo]

To me, he's been just as good as Maguire recently. He also seems to have gotten rid of the problems he had at the start of the season, for the most part.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

Assist to assist, and good movement to pull the defender away.

Good initiative in starting that attack too.

For the first goal.

 

[simplyared]

Credit where it's due. I have not been a fan, but he's proved me wrong. Unbelievable development!

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

I'd rather take Lindelof's consistent 7/10 performances than Bailly's 10/10 2/10 6/10 8/10 performances

 

[Fracture90]

Think he was very solid past few games and i also think he's fear of getting into aerial duels is slowly but steadily going away.

 

[A-man]

I'd rather take Lindelof's consistent 7/10 performances than Bailly's 10/10 2/10 6/10 8/10 performances

I think this is one of Lindelof’s best qualities. He has not developed his top level very much the last two years, but he has really developed and raised his lowest level and seldom put in a poor performance.

 

[MadDogg]

Think he was very solid past few games and i also think he's fear of getting into aerial duels is slowly but steadily going away.

His ability, or lack thereof, in the air has been exaggerated for years. It was a huge issue in his first season, but in his second and now third season he's improved significantly. Obviously it's not something that will ever be an actual strength of his, but it's now no worse than plenty of other defenders that we've been linked to (such as the Spurs defenders that we were linked with the last few years).

 

[romufc]

His ability, or lack thereof, in the air has been exaggerated for years. It was a huge issue in his first season, but in his second and now third season he's improved significantly. Obviously it's not something that will ever be an actual strength of his, but it's now no worse than plenty of other defenders that we've been linked to (such as the Spurs defenders that we were linked with the last few years).

There is an agenda with our fan base against Lindelof. When we have our best team and players do not give the ball away in midfield we look better.

Yesterday was a very good example. With Pogba / Bruno we looked defensively better, when the subs came on Brighton attacked us and we lost the ball so many times from Perreira, James etc and the defenders are isolated.

 

[Sylar]

Im liking that hes running more with the ball into the opposition half, basically causing a team sitting back to commit to him. He did it for our first goal, and kept his run going until it went to Mason.

 

[NinjaFletch]

I'm not the biggest fan of his, but he does seem to inspire confidence in the rest of the side who seem to trust him to do what he does well enough with no fuss.

The second Bailly came on for him we looked instantly more fidgety and nervy.

 

[Man-United]

He was good, confidence player. Hope he's not out for long.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

I'm not the biggest fan of his, but he does seem to inspire confidence in the rest of the side who seem to trust him to do what he does well enough with no fuss.

The second Bailly came on for him we looked instantly more fidgety and nervy.

I dunno, I thought he did well in the first half (though his lack of pace was telling) but we hardly looked assured/comfortable at the back in the first half.