[fps]

Lindelof was fine today, did well when tested, hope his back’s ok.

 

[ivaldo]

It's nice seeing Lindelof get a bit of love for once.

 

[Revan]

The problem was that Maguire was the absolute best we could have gotten last window as a CB who'd instantly slot into the team and be expected to play every game. Most other CB's from other leagues would have needed time to adapt. Also I think you're underrating Maguire quite a bit. His lack of pace is definitely an issue like when he gets dragged out of position it leaves a massive hole, but he's also very good at certain things I haven't seen in a Man United defender since Rio in his prime. He's an absolute dominant header and is really composed on the ball most of the time and very press resistant as well. Sometimes goals happen because the other team is also there to play. If anything I would have blamed AWB for the first goal since he just sat down and refused to get up. I genuinely thought he was injured or something.

Not necessarily true. This is a big legend that players from other leagues need time settling it. Some do, some don't. Bruno looks like the best player in our team if not the league, and it took him like 4 seconds to settle.

If you are talking specifically about CBs, how long it took Laporte to settle in the league? Or Carvalho? Or Stam?

 

[Revan]

Because he keeps dropping off and conceding territory allowing attackers closer to the goal.

And the alternative is to actually get dribbled every other game and concede goals?

In any case someone should tell the other managers, to stop attacking the superior Maguire, but instead target the inferior Lindelof.

Dunno, one player fecks up every other game, gets dribbled, make mistakes, takes 3 hours to pass, but it is the other player who gets all the blame and needs to be replaced. Only in Caf.

 

[Rish Sawhney]

Not necessarily true. This is a big legend that players from other leagues need time settling it. Some do, some don't. Bruno looks like the best player in our team if not the league, and it took him like 4 seconds to settle.

If you are talking specifically about CBs, how long it took Laporte to settle in the league? Or Carvalho? Or Stam?

Ok then who do you think we should have gotten in his stead that would have been better? I'm not gonna lie the fact that he was the England captain was probably a big factor too, but I don't regret it at all. To win a title you really only need serviceable defense that can be solid in a few clutch moments and thats been true of ours so far.

 

[Revan]

Ok then who do you think we should have gotten in his stead that would have been better? I'm not gonna lie the fact that he was the England captain was probably a big factor too, but I don't regret it at all. To win a title you really only need serviceable defense that can be solid in a few clutch moments and thats been true of ours so far.

He is not England's captain. Or vice-captain.

I don't know where we could have signed one, I am not a scout. But if for 80m this was the best you can get, then truly the art of defending is dead once and for all.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

And the alternative is to actually get dribbled every other game and concede goals?

In any case someone should tell the other managers, to stop attacking the superior Maguire, but instead target the inferior Lindelof.

Dunno, one player fecks up every other game, gets dribbled, make mistakes, takes 3 hours to pass, but it is the other player who gets all the blame and needs to be replaced. Only in Caf.

He doesn’t feck up every game. Here’s an academic exercise for you. Go in the Maguire thread and count the games when you and the other anti-Maguire agenda posters have been present in force slagging him off this season. That’ll give some indication as to how many critical mistakes he’s been making.

Its not complicated. Maguire is charged with engaging the oppositions strongest attackers whilst Lindelof covers. Maguire isn’t chasing these attackers like a rabid dog, it’s team instructions. If a defender keeps dropping off then they can’t be dribbled, right? Its one of the least interesting stats because CBs rarely get dribbled. Maguire is only average in the dribbled stat anyway.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Well, he would have needed to cost twice as much and also be a 'leader' whatever it means. Probably it means being very average, like the previous 2 leaders we had as captains.

I will be honest with you. I didn't know how strong PR can be regarding players qualities until Maguire's case.
Club have been spinning that story about captain Harry last few months. Harry did this, Harry did that, our captain bla bla bla.
And now United fans are throwing that leader trait in nearly every post about Maguire. Before he got armband nobody knew that he is a leader. In matter of fact Leicester fans were saying that he is not a leader type. But now everything is forgiven because of his "great leadership qualities"

When you read about what we still need, fans and pundits say rw and defender. But most of them refer to Lindelof and that he needs to be upgraded, not Harry. Not player who is worse and who has so many flaws. We need to upgrade better player to get the best (whatever that means) from worse player. Logic at its best.

I am not unhappy with Maguire. He is good defender and this partnership looks good this season but it really pisses me off how he is protected and on other side Lindelof is blamed for everything.

 

[Revan]

He doesn’t feck up every game. Here’s an academic exercise for you. Go in the Maguire thread and count the games when you and the other anti-Maguire agenda posters have been present in force slagging him off this season. That’ll give some indication as to how many critical mistakes he’s been making.

Its not complicated. Maguire is charged with engaging the oppositions strongest attackers whilst Lindelof covers. Maguire isn’t chasing these attackers like a rabid dog, it’s team instructions. If a defender keeps dropping off then they can’t be dribbled, right? Its one of the least interesting stats because CBs rarely get dribbled. Maguire is only average in the dribbled stat anyway.

To be fair, I said every other game.

I feel that he has fecked up many times this season. He was dogshit today, was at fault for Spurs game, and from what I remember, was at fault for Liverpool's first goal, while in the same game Winjauldum made a fool out of him.


But I guess, getting nutmegged does not count. Unless you are not Maguire, in which case you become a laughing stock.

 

[Le Red]

I'm not actively trying to hate him, I just don't see any special attributes from him at this level. His build is weaker than his counterparts and his movement is wavering. Air game is a big minus.
If he had Bailly's physique he'd be way better. Sadly Bailly got no composure, which is the one thing that stands out on Lindelof for me.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

To be fair, I said every other game.

I feel that he has fecked up many times this season. He was dogshit today, was at fault for Spurs game, and from what I remember, was at fault for Liverpool's first goal, while in the same game Winjauldum made a fool out of him.


But I guess, getting nutmegged does not count. Unless you are not Maguire, in which case you become a laughing stock.

I don't think nutmegs are the crime that you seem to think they are. It’s school yard stuff.

 

[#07]

I'm not actively trying to hate him, I just don't see any special attributes from him at this level. His build is weaker than his counterparts and his movement is wavering. Air game is a big minus.
If he had Bailly's physique he'd be way better. Sadly Bailly got no composure, which is the one thing that stands out on Lindelof for me.

Agreed. He's basically Maguire with less presence and a bit more pace. He looks what he was: a punt we took on a cheaper option, when we should have put down proper money on a top centre back.

 

[Revan]

I will be honest with you. I didn't know how strong PR can be regarding players qualities until Maguire's case.
Club have been spinning that story about captain Harry last few months. Harry did this, Harry did that, our captain bla bla bla.
And now United fans are throwing that leader trait in nearly every post about Maguire. Before he got armband nobody knew that he is a leader. In matter of fact Leicester fans were saying that he is not a leader type. But now everything is forgiven because of his "great leadership qualities"

When you read about what we still need, fans and pundits say rw and defender. But most of them refer to Lindelof and that he needs to be upgraded, not Harry. Not player who is worse and who has so many flaws. We need to upgrade better player to get the best (whatever that means) from worse player. Logic at its best.

I am not unhappy with Maguire. He is good defender and this partnership looks good this season but it really pisses me off how he is protected and on other side Lindelof is blamed for everything.

Best part. No one ever knew that he was a leader. Certainly, Leicester fans didn't. They even joked that we were signing the wrong defender from them.

But suddenly, since game one, United decided that he is a leader. It does not matter than he makes more mistakes than every player in the team, that he is painfully average, he is The leader. And he became the captain within 6 months of his signing. This is the fastest ever for United, if I am not mistaken. No Charlton, or Robson, or Cantona, or Keano...it is Maguire, the only player who became captain within 6 months. The leader.

Best PR ever.

 

[Kostov]

Our best defender. Does everything right and also covers Maguire when we attack. And his reading of the game is excellent.

Our “best defender” today failed to clear the initial cross before the first goal, and “cleared” the ball right into an attacker in the box leading to havoc and two other mistakes by Maguire and DDG. In other words classic Lindelof, he covers shit all most of the time.

 

[Cassidy]

Our “best defender” today failed to clear the initial cross before the first goal, and “cleared” the ball right into an attacker in the box leading to havoc and two other mistakes by Maguire and DDG. In other words classic Lindelof, he covers shit all most of the time.

Did he?

 

[Andycoleno9]

Our “best defender” today failed to clear the initial cross before the first goal, and “cleared” the ball right into an attacker in the box leading to havoc and two other mistakes by Maguire and DDG. In other words classic Lindelof, he covers shit all most of the time.

Wow, i wasn't even aware how that goal started. Watch better. Who missed a header at the first place? So basically Lindelof must cover Maguire even in the air?

 

[A-man]

Wow, i wasn't even aware how that goal started. Watch better. Who missed a header at the first place? So basically Lindelof must cover Maguire even in the air?

In this case Maguire was totally out of position. He had moved too far out and in to no mans land. His decision making wasn’t at its best today, bit hell came back next game.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Ha ha, this is amazing. So we have a situation where Maguire is in penalty box and marking nobody and we have Lindelof marking a player. Here comes a cross, Maguire who marks nobody and who is first on that goal misses a header, Lindelof despite marking his man and not seeing the ball because of Maguire, clears the ball and it is his fault? Bloody hell @Kostov , this is too much.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

To be fair, I said every other game.

I feel that he has fecked up many times this season. He was dogshit today, was at fault for Spurs game, and from what I remember, was at fault for Liverpool's first goal, while in the same game Winjauldum made a fool out of him.


But I guess, getting nutmegged does not count. Unless you are not Maguire, in which case you become a laughing stock.

Getting nutmegged is mistake & dogshit? That's new.

Being ball watching and not be able to sense a danger is what I called mistake and dogshit. Unfortunately people don't know what they mean.

 

[SmallCaine]

Our “best defender” today failed to clear the initial cross before the first goal, and “cleared” the ball right into an attacker in the box leading to havoc and two other mistakes by Maguire and DDG. In other words classic Lindelof, he covers shit all most of the time.

So we have now gone past the general criticism stage to straight up making stuff up phase. I can't wait for the his attitude isn't right part next.

 

[Anders80]

Best defender today and he's been playing really well lately. I can't understand why so many think both Maguire and Bailly are so much better. Maguire screwed up several times against Bournemouth, Bailly looked really shaky and the whole defense felt weaker with him on, while I can't recall Lindelöf setting a foot wrong.

 

[A-man]

This clip from last match was posted from @Rasendori in another thread. Great play from Lindelof and I can just hope he continues to play like this. It looks like he is licensed to move up more often now even though he is still the covering CB.

 

[11101]

This clip from last match was posted from @Rasendori in another thread. Great play from Lindelof and I can just hope he continues to play like this. It looks like he is licensed to move up more often now even though he is still the covering CB.

Hes been doing this for a while.

We have two/three good defenders now. We dont have a single top class CB but there are no glaring deficiencies or liabilities in the back line anymore. Lindelof can do everything to a good standard and some things very well, same as Maguire, and even Bailly. We no longer have to set the team up around protecting the defence. Players who are able to play forward like that will always make mistakes but overall bring a huge benefit to the team.

Think back to 2 or 3 years ago, we have come on a long, long way.

 

[A-man]

Hes been doing this for a while.

We have two/three good defenders now. We dont have a single top class CB but there are no glaring deficiencies or liabilities in the back line anymore. Lindelof can do everything to a good standard and some things very well, same as Maguire, and even Bailly. We no longer have to set the team up around protecting the defence. Players who are able to play forward like that will always make mistakes but overall bring a huge benefit to the team.

Think back to 2 or 3 years ago, we have come on a long, long way.

He has occasionally, but the last matches it’s been more on a regular basis imo. We also saw it for Greenwood’s goal against Brighton. It works very well when Matic drops a little to allow any of the CBs to move up.

If we want the CBs to win back the ball high and early, and to hit penetrating passes, we must allow a few mistakes as well.

 

[Gungne]

Victor was the best defender in the match against Bournemouth. I don't think I spottet any big mistakes the first half. Bailly on the other hand.... he does a lot of "strange" things.

 

[Kostov]

Wow, i wasn't even aware how that goal started. Watch better. Who missed a header at the first place? So basically Lindelof must cover Maguire even in the air?

Lindelof committed to a header and “cleared” piss poorly into the box straight to a Bournemouth player. That does not excuse Maguire and DDG which made mistakes after that, but how can you say that is a acceptable by Lindelof?

 

[Kostov]

Did he?

Yes as far as I remember.

 

[Kostov]

So we have now gone past the general criticism stage to straight up making stuff up phase. I can't wait for the his attitude isn't right part next.

You either point out what is made up or don’t waste time with nothing posts.

 

[Cassidy]

Yes as far as I remember.

I think you got it wrong

 

[spiriticon]

Is he any better than a Jonny Evans or Wes Brown? Not really.

Decent player but unspectacular

 

[A-man]

The first problem was Maguires poor positioning. He is far out in a place where he shouldn’t. He who is super strong in the air should have cleared that cross easily.
Instead he backed in to the situation, jumped but missed the header by an inch. I think it was very hard for both the attacker and Victor to see the ball when Maguire jumped. But the problem was that he was in a poor position in the first place.

 

[SmallCaine]

You either point out what is made up or don’t waste time with nothing posts.

You are claiming lindelof failed to clear the cross when he actually is the only guy in the whole sequence who actually did any defending.

Maguire failed to clear the ball not lindelof, maguire got shown up by a mediocre winger from a soon to be relegated team but let's blame lindelof for the goal, that is making stuff up or did you blame rashford for the bergwijn goal vs Tottenham.

 

[Kostov]

You are claiming lindelof failed to clear the cross when he actually is the only guy in the whole sequence who actually did any defending.

Maguire failed to clear the ball not lindelof, maguire got shown up by a mediocre winger from a soon to be relegated team but let's blame lindelof for the goal, that is making stuff up or did you blame rashford for the bergwijn goal vs Tottenham.

He is the only one who did any defending? Have you actually seen the goal? His "defending" resulted with a failed clearance which probably hit him on the back and created the whole situation. Some defending he did. Maguire blocked one cross before the nutmeg and was skinned by a mediocre winger (even mediocre PL winger can nutmeg defenders what a shocker) that same winger scored a goal from a corner in 2015 against peak DDG also.

And that line about Stanislas shows how childish your post is. Mediocre winger from soon to be relegated team, gives feck all meaning to anything to the discussion. It's like saying Lindelof got outplayed couple of times by Joshua King, a mediocre striker from a soon to be relegated team.

Never have I said that it's only Lindelof that should be blamed for the goal, you just make things up as you continue to spout bullshit.

And do you think Rashford losing a ball carelessly should not take part of the blame for the Bergwijn goal? Or every goal we concede there's only one at fault?

 

[Andycoleno9]

He is the only one who did any defending? Have you actually seen the goal? His "defending" resulted with a failed clearance which probably hit him on the back and created the whole situation. Some defending he did. Maguire blocked one cross before the nutmeg and was skinned by a mediocre winger (even mediocre PL winger can nutmeg defenders what a shocker) that same winger scored a goal from a corner in 2015 against peak DDG also.

And that line about Stanislas shows how childish your post is. Mediocre winger from soon to be relegated team, gives feck all meaning to anything to the discussion. It's like saying Lindelof got outplayed couple of times by Joshua King, a mediocre striker from a soon to be relegated team.

Never have I said that it's only Lindelof that should be blamed for the goal, you just make things up as you continue to spout bullshit.

And do you think Rashford losing a ball carelessly should not take part of the blame for the Bergwijn goal? Or every goal we concede there's only one at fault?

Lindelof was marking his player and ended in duel with another (Pogba's) player. Maguire marked nobody. And his job and why we payed 80 bloody millions is to clear that ball. Instead he, whos only job there was to concentrate on that cross, missed that header. And like many many times this season Lindelof despite marking his player(s) went to cover Maguire and cleared the ball. Because of Maguire's miss he could not cleared it better.

I doubt that any other club would pick Maguire instead Lindelof. One knows how to defend and other is only good in heading the ball. Even that he could not do right there.

 

[Kostov]

The first problem was Maguires poor positioning. He is far out in a place where he shouldn’t. He who is super strong in the air should have cleared that cross easily.

That picture does not show the context of his positioning which is not "far out in a place he shouldn't to begin with. Go and watch the video and you will see a Bournemouth runner getting through the midfield and into the box which Maguire anticipated.

Instead he backed in to the situation, jumped but missed the header by an inch. I think it was very hard for both the attacker and Victor to see the ball when Maguire jumped. But the problem was that he was in a poor position in the first place.

Well Victor clearly saw the danger and rightfully went into the header, just that it was a weak attempt and failed to clear. For all we know he probably shouted or should have to Maguire that he was going for the ball, we sure can hope that they communicate in this situation right? What I see in that situation is a basic CB partner covering (here Lindelof covers for Maguire who was not getting for that ball and I wouldn't blame it down to poor positioning for the before mentioned reason).

Again imo I think Lindelof sensed the danger properly and went into the duel to clear, he failed to do so, whether that is because of Maguired blocking or his general poor heading and anticipation couldn't say.

 

[Kostov]

Lindelof was marking his player and ended in duel with another (Pogba's) player. Maguire marked nobody. And his job and why we payed 80 bloody millions is to clear that ball. Instead he, whos only job there was to concentrate on that cross, missed that header. And like many many times this season Lindelof despite marking his player(s) went to cover Maguire and cleared the ball. Because of Maguire's miss he could not cleared it better.

I doubt that any other club would pick Maguire instead Lindelof. One knows how to defend and other is only good in heading the ball. Even that he could not do right there.

What marking are you talking about? This was a 5 seconds attack which developed fast and nobody is covering only one player, not sure what are you talking about. Lindelof was keeping en eye on one player and than switched to another who clearly entered in his area of defending marking which was the right thing to do. Before the cross came into the box Maguired stepped out a bit to anticipate a runner who went behind Shaw, as soon as he didn't receive a pass Maguired was stepping back which was the right thing to do. Lindelof clearly saw that it was hid header and went into duel, if that wasn't the case he surely should not have committed to the duel. He did rightfully imo but failed to clear.

And what has Maguire got to do with the club failing to sign him for 20m (went on and signed Lindelof for 40m) and then going and spending 80m on him? He was never worth that kind of money, but neither was Lindelof the 40m we paid for him.

One of them is our best CB does 70% of our defending, wins most of his duels, the other one is Lindelof who is a bang average CB and just yesterday was handled by King.

 

[A-man]

That picture does not show the context of his positioning which is not "far out in a place he shouldn't to begin with. Go and watch the video and you will see a Bournemouth runner getting through the midfield and into the box which Maguire anticipated.


Well Victor clearly saw the danger and rightfully went into the header, just that it was a weak attempt and failed to clear. For all we know he probably shouted or should have to Maguire that he was going for the ball, we sure can hope that they communicate in this situation right? What I see in that situation is a basic CB partner covering (here Lindelof covers for Maguire who was not getting for that ball and I wouldn't blame it down to poor positioning for the before mentioned reason).

Again imo I think Lindelof sensed the danger properly and went into the duel to clear, he failed to do so, whether that is because of Maguired blocking or his general poor heading and anticipation couldn't say.

Look, I really like Maguire and think he’s been great over the season, but yesterday wasn’t his day. And the positioning at the goal. Yes a picture is taken out of context and it looks worse in the picture than in reality. He was maybe fooled out of position, I don’t know, and maybe if Shaw has chased his man better he would have stayed in the centre. But it was poor positioning, no question about it. And that you can see in the picture.

 

[roonster09]

fecking hell so much micro analysis, if this sort of analysis is done then there isn't a single decent CB ever. If you analyse most of the goals you can point out many mistakes.

Except some ridiculous long range shots every goal is a mistake, even the long range shot is a mistake as CM shouldn't let them shoot.

Instead of dwelling on single isolated incidents, check the record as a whole.

The way people go on and on its like Rio, Vidic never conceded a goal.

 

[Andycoleno9]

What marking are you talking about? This was a 5 seconds attack which developed fast and nobody is covering only one player, not sure what are you talking about. Lindelof was keeping en eye on one player and than switched to another who clearly entered in his area of defending marking which was the right thing to do. Before the cross came into the box Maguired stepped out a bit to anticipate a runner who went behind Shaw, as soon as he didn't receive a pass Maguired was stepping back which was the right thing to do. Lindelof clearly saw that it was hid header and went into duel, if that wasn't the case he surely should not have committed to the duel. He did rightfully imo but failed to clear.

And what has Maguire got to do with the club failing to sign him for 20m (went on and signed Lindelof for 40m) and then going and spending 80m on him? He was never worth that kind of money, but neither was Lindelof the 40m we paid for him.

One of them is our best CB does 70% of our defending, wins most of his duels, the other one is Lindelof who is a bang average CB and just yesterday was handled by King.

Lindelof is marking his man and Maguire is not marking anybody. And about bolded part ;When was that?
Lindelof is twice a defender than Maguire. Let me ask you something; if Barca, Real, Juve, Bayern, Psg need a defender, who do you think they would pick from these two?

I repeat, unlike you about Lindelof, i don't think that Maguire is bad defender and unlike most of Caf i am very happy how these two are playing together but if we compare these two Lindelof is level above. Maguire can play only in PL and Lindelof can play in every league and in every system.

 

[Kostov]

Look, I really like Maguire and think he’s been great over the season, but yesterday wasn’t his day. And the positioning at the goal. Yes a picture is taken out of context and it looks worse in the picture than in reality. He was maybe fooled out of position, I don’t know, and maybe if Shaw has chased his man better he would have stayed in the centre. But it was poor positioning, no question about it. And that you can see in the picture.

Maguire made a mistake yesterday when he committed too aggressively to wining the ball from Stanislas therefor he got nutmeged prior to the goal. Moving 1-2m briefly to anticipate that runner I think was the right thing to do. I think the defense held a good formation up till Lindelof failed clearance, the good formation allowed Lindelof to be in the right place to cover for Maguire, as partners should do obviously.

Later Maguired made a far worse mistake when he pinned a ball right into an opposition attacker for example which is not talked about on here, all you see is talk about that nutmeg.