[RussellWilson]

Most passive defender ever. Basically does nothing in the hope the attack fizzels out.

Even on the 2nd goal, they win it back and instead getting out to the edge of the box he takes a step back as always and the player plays an easy ball into the penalty spot.

Let's not even discuss the first goal. Diabolical.

 

[A-man]

I dont think thats because of them. AWB and Shaw help our defence more than other teams. So they deserve a lot of the credit too

One example is that we're the team that gets beaten with the most dribbles per game in the league. AWB is a RB who wins a large majority of times when an opponent tries to dribble him.

So imagine what it would be like if we didnt have AWB reducing that threat and cancelling it out on the opponents left, while Shaw does a good job usually on the other side.

Our CBs still have to deal with plenty of the ball going into the box from out wide from overlaps or from deep without beating a defender. But theres some areas that our fullbacks shield them from. Some other teams have a DM shield them, like Ndidi at Leicester and Fernandinho on form for City in midfield. But from the fullbacks? The CBs are clearly helped the most by them out of the higher placed teams in the league.

Some of the credit obviously does go to Maguire and Lindelof together for the parts they do deal with. But they'd have twice as much to do with Alexander Arnold and Robertson to their sides

Absolutely, cred goes to all defenders, goalkeeper and DM. But then to say they are prone to _fafal_errors isn’t true as we have not conceded many goals because of fatal errors by our CBs.

Why do you ignore the abysmal record in the CL when discussing their performance this season?

I don’t ignore anything. But they have played 1.5 season together in the PL and 2 full CL matches, 1 almost full and one half together.Couldnt really say that they were full of “fatal mistakes” in the CL either.

 

[andersj]

But they'd have twice as much to do with Alexander Arnold and Robertson to their sides

Maybe. But not if they had Fabinho, Henderson and Winjaldum infront of them. And even less so if they had the front three of LFC pressing.

It is not like it is easier to play centerback at Man Utd than at Liverpool or Man City. These teams are great at protecting their centerbacks.

 

[RussellWilson]

There you go everyone. Lindelof's reaction and defending there

Look at his first step, backwards and then proceeds to give Firminho all the fecking time to play a pass.

Any defender's natural reaction is to step forward, close the space and try to affect the situatuon yet he's on his heels and backs in his own box.

Thank you.

Glad someone else saw it. Pathetic.

He has the body shape when you're trying to defend the ball and an overlap at the same time. But he's just scared.

 

[Godfather]

Wasn't good today

 

[Ekeke]

Absolutely, cred goes to all defenders, goalkeeper and DM. But then to say they are prone to _fafal_errors isn’t true as we have not conceded many goals because of fatal errors by our CBs.


I don’t ignore anything. But they have played 1.5 season together in the PL and 2 full CL matches, 1 almost full and one half together.Couldnt really say that they were full of “fatal mistakes” in the CL either.

They certainly looked vulnerable in the knockout matches from our cup runs last season. That period where we were doing well in several competitions and then suddenly we were out of all the cups. Our defence looked the weak point

 

[TsuWave]

Bailly's understudy

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Any defender's natural reaction is to step forward, close the space and try to affect the situatuon yet he's on his heels and backs in his own box.

He did the same on the Salah shot from their right, which is where my issue or ”bias” if you like comes from, I know Bailly could just as easily chop Firminho in two there and give away a pen, but I am a much bigger fan of defenders who try to defend on the front foot.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Is it just my bias against Lindelöf and his type of passive defender?

If you think Lindelof is not good enough for the PL, then you may not be biased.
If you think Maguire, Bailly are all awesome, but only Lindelof is crap, then I would call it a tad biased.

 

[He'sRaldo]

I think it was his worst game this season but still somewhat ok, which shows how good his consistency is. Thought the whole back line except AWB was worse than normal.

I don't think he had a terrible game either, but had this been Bailly you'd have micro-analyzed and hammered him.

 

[A-man]

He did the same on the Salah shot from their right, which is where my issue or ”bias” if you like comes from, I know Bailly could just as easily chop Firminho in two there and give away a pen, but I am a much bigger fan of defenders who try to defend on the front foot.

This is highly speculative. Maybe Bailly would have caused a penalty or tackled. Or he had done just what he did against Leicester and Fulham, which was nothing , just watched them score. Yet he is the defender on the front foot...

 

[Obiorahking_]

I think its unfair to completely blame Lindleof for the first goal. Salah was Shaw's man so Shaw could have gotten to him.

 

[A-man]

I don't think he had a terrible game either, but had this been Bailly you'd have micro-analyzed and hammered him.

Not really. Wouldn’t say I’ve micro analysed Bailly bra size I’m honestly not so interested in that. For me it is more the bigger picture that makes him the third alternative in the CB line.

 

[A-man]

They certainly looked vulnerable in the knockout matches from our cup runs last season. That period where we were doing well in several competitions and then suddenly we were out of all the cups. Our defence looked the weak point

I agree with that. But the whole team seems to be in much more harmony now. And I think we look rather calm and good under pressure even though Liverpool’s press was not as good as it normally is.

 

[MikeKing]

This is highly speculative. Maybe Bailly would have caused a penalty or tackled. Or he had done just what he did against Leicester and Fulham, which was nothing , just watched them score. Yet he is the defender on the front foot...

If you can't look at Lindelof in a vacuum on all his defensive actions today. It wasn't just the goals, his confidence was a let down the whole game and his head dropped on 2-2. That's not cool, the game was ours to win. Luckily Bruno and Fred came on and provided energy to the rest of the team. But just look at his movement all game, his positioning was awful.

It's ridiculous how poor he was all-round this game. Hoofed the ball, took too long to play passes waiving his arms about, and is at times the worst player in our team to smell out danger defensively. Maybe he smells it but he hasn't got a clue what to do with it, he just stands there or backs off, and he is supposed to be a CB. We need someone proactive, someone that can lead and organise. Folks often get mad because Maguire should be 'all that' due to his price but he isn't, so people forget that we should have two decent CB's and that Maguire can be very useful to Man Utd, it's Lindelof who is a terrible influence back there. Maguire is actually the one who is holding us down consistently. Plays every game and probably has a lot of wins as a CB for United, where as Lindelof probably hasn't.

 

[Siviz]

His worst performance so far this season. Not terrible, but rather poor.

 

[Eugenius]

Good in a compact and deep line (like at Anfield), struggles when the game is open.

 

[criticalanalysis]

He did the same on the Salah shot from their right, which is where my issue or ”bias” if you like comes from, I know Bailly could just as easily chop Firminho in two there and give away a pen, but I am a much bigger fan of defenders who try to defend on the front foot.

It's not bias at all mate. You, I and others are trying so hard to be impartial and take the views of those hailing Lindelof as some underrated/underappreciated genius that we're second guessing ourselves for the sake of being fair.

I've said this many times, it's fine to second guess and re-evaluate your opinions because things change but that should only apply to players (or even a manager like Ole) when they've shown elite talent or performances (e.g Pogba). The most Lindelof has shown is being fit and not a massive liability. Hardly worth holding back on.

 

[A-man]

If you can't look at Lindelof in a vacuum on all his defensive actions today. It wasn't just the goals, his confidence was a let down the whole game and his head dropped on 2-2. That's not cool, the game was ours to win. Luckily Bruno and Fred came on and provided energy to the rest of the team. But just look at his movement all game, his positioning was awful.

It's ridiculous how poor he was all-round this game. Hoofed the ball, took too long to play passes waiving his arms about, and is at times the worst player in our team to smell out danger defensively. Maybe he smells it but he hasn't got a clue what to do with it, he just stands there or backs off, and he is supposed to be a CB. We need someone proactive, someone that can lead and organise. Folks often get mad because Maguire should be 'all that' due to his price but he isn't, so people forget that we should have two decent CB's and that Maguire can be very useful to Man Utd, it's Lindelof who is a terrible influence back there. Maguire is actually the one who is holding us down consistently. Plays every game and probably has a lot of wins as a CB for United, where as Lindelof probably hasn't.

Honestly, it’s ridiculous what you write. It was probably his worst match of the season but overall he’s been good this season and a good partner to Maguire. I seriously don’t get understand where you get everything from. He hoofed the ball? He misplaced 2 long balls in the entire match and had 4 accurate long balls. How could that be hoofing the ball?

 

[He'sRaldo]

Not really. Wouldn’t say I’ve micro analysed Bailly bra size I’m honestly not so interested in that. For me it is more the bigger picture that makes him the third alternative in the CB line.

In that case, I look forward to you defending Bailly with the same vigour you do Lindelof.

 

[MikeKing]

Honestly, it’s ridiculous what you write. It was probably his worst match of the season but overall he’s been good this season and a good partner to Maguire. I seriously don’t get understand where you get everything from. He hoofed the ball? He misplaced 2 long balls in the entire match and had 4 accurate long balls. How could that be hoofing the ball?

Well how many times do we try to play out from the back, and how often does he end up hoofing the ball? If he hoofs the ball 2 out of 5 times, and the other 3 he plays a slow pass to someone else who lose the ball it's not a great look. Standards at United needs to be higher than this, I'm sorry I don't mean to be harsh as I like the guy but his defending is just terrible. He is hoofing the ball too, he just is. If he picks out a player for a long ball and misses that's fine but he just plays it because he is stressed out of his mind. It doesn't matter if it hits its target if it's just random luck.

 

[A-man]

In that case, I look forward to you defending Bailly with the same vigour you do Lindelof.

I think I was one of the few who thought he was ok after his last match even though I still believe he was poor at the goal. Anyway, if you want to analyse how I analyse Bailly, feel free, but this thread is maybe not the place.

 

[A-man]

Well how many times do we try to play out from the back, and how often does he end up hoofing the ball? If he hoofs the ball 2 out of 5 times, and the other 3 he plays a slow pass to someone else who lose the ball it's not a great look. Standards at United needs to be higher than this, I'm sorry I don't mean to be harsh as I like the guy but his defending is just terrible. He is hoofing the ball too, he just is. If he picks out a player for a long ball and misses that's fine but he just plays it because he is stressed out of his mind. It doesn't matter if it hits its target if it's just random luck.

If he can find team mates 67% of the time by just randomly hoofing it, I say he should continue with that.

I would say he looked very calm with the ball today, just like the rest of the back line. You are the only one I’ve heard complain about this actually.

 

[He'sRaldo]

I think I was one of the few who thought he was ok after his last match even though I still believe he was poor at the goal. Anyway, if you want to analyse how I analyse Bailly, feel free, but this thread is maybe not the place.

Like I said, I'm looking forward to it. Hopefully we'll see it when Bailly makes mistakes.

 

[Bobski]

Bailly is always going to make more obvious mistakes than Lindelof, it is the nature of both players style. A naturally aggressive, front foot defender versus a reactive one. Perhaps the truth of the matter is that they could both do with a more balanced approach.

 

[A-man]

Like I said, I'm looking forward to it. Hopefully we'll see it when Bailly makes mistakes.

Why would I defend Bailly when he makes mistakes? Your posts make no sense.

 

[He'sRaldo]

Why would I defend Bailly when he makes mistakes? Your posts make no sense.

Good question. Why would a person obsessively defend a CB whenever he makes mistakes?

Makes you think.

 

[A-man]

Good question. Why would a person obsessively defend a CB whenever he makes mistakes?

Makes you think.

Yea and who wants to start discussion about other posters? That seems a bit obsessive if something. Makes you think at least. Maybe it is better you focus on the players instead of me?

 

[11101]

It is the full back's responsibility to tuck in to the CB and cut the channel out, not the other way around. He wasn't great for the first goal but it was far more on Shaw than Lindelof.

 

[Synco]

Loved the shamelessness of his tactical foul towards the end

 

[IMakeThingsUp]

If you can't look at Lindelof in a vacuum on all his defensive actions today. It wasn't just the goals, his confidence was a let down the whole game and his head dropped on 2-2. That's not cool, the game was ours to win. Luckily Bruno and Fred came on and provided energy to the rest of the team. But just look at his movement all game, his positioning was awful.

It's ridiculous how poor he was all-round this game. Hoofed the ball, took too long to play passes waiving his arms about, and is at times the worst player in our team to smell out danger defensively. Maybe he smells it but he hasn't got a clue what to do with it, he just stands there or backs off, and he is supposed to be a CB. We need someone proactive, someone that can lead and organise. Folks often get mad because Maguire should be 'all that' due to his price but he isn't, so people forget that we should have two decent CB's and that Maguire can be very useful to Man Utd, it's Lindelof who is a terrible influence back there. Maguire is actually the one who is holding us down consistently. Plays every game and probably has a lot of wins as a CB for United, where as Lindelof probably hasn't.

Seriously, did Victor kill your pet puppy or something?

 

[IMakeThingsUp]

I find it kind of amusing with all the people who used to (and still do) that Victor was not MU material and that MU could never be a top contender with him in the team. Newsflash, take a look at the table!

 

[Foxbatt]

This is ridiculous. I thought he should have cut off the second goal but have not seen in slow motion again. The first one there was nothing much he could do. He had other players closer to Firminio than him and he was right in trying to block his straight path to goal. Under pressure why the hell did Maguire kick it straight to the centre of the pitch. yes Cavani mis-controlled it but he should have kicked in a different direction and much further away.

 

[Crackers]

Looked a bit ropey today.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

We won. He played poorly for him and absolutely made mistakes today.

 

[Ekeke]

I find it kind of amusing with all the people who used to (and still do) that Victor was not MU material and that MU could never be a top contender with him in the team. Newsflash, take a look at the table!

Phil Jones could be starting with AWB and Shaw as fullbacks and we'd be near the top of the league.

 

[Adam-Utd]

It is the full back's responsibility to tuck in to the CB and cut the channel out, not the other way around. He wasn't great for the first goal but it was far more on Shaw than Lindelof.

He had nobody to mark, firmino dropped deep. You have 1 job as a CB that’s protect the goal, not ball watch.

His attempted recovery was also hilariously bizarre, where was he going?! He span around in a circle like a dizzy dog.

He was good last week but very poor today

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Under pressure why the hell did Maguire kick it straight to the centre of the pitch. yes Cavani mis-controlled it but he should have kicked in a different direction and much further away.

 

[Eternitiy]

Poor awareness for their first goal, but in fairness an excellent finish by Salah.

 

[passing-wind]

Agreed. Both can be decent, Maguire can be properly good, but both too prone to fatal errors/lack of organisation. It happens too often.

This for me. How low is the standard of defending in modern football if people (many on here) are branding Maguire a solid defender ? It's absolutely comical, he's not rubbish and is the best of a very average bunch.