[Amar__]

He's just acting like a normal fan while you're behaving like a 5 yr old.

I praise some players and I criticise some players, I admit I can be biased since I like some more than others, that's classic fan behaviour for you.

Ivaldo, on the other hand, is acting like everything is great and he is defending every single player, every single manager, etc., everything is right in his book, not just under Ole, but even under all managers in the years behind.

Have you read his posts over the years? He is generally not a bad poster, but it is tiresome when some people pretend to be top reds all the time and not have any bad thing to say on anything regarding United, you would think we have won 50 throphies over last few years. Plus he is one of the most ignored posters on this forum right next to some of the worst posters of all time, so there must be a reason for that.

 

[Amar__]

Sure thing. And you can have SHIT FAN tagline.

@Commonsense

Sure thing, keep pretending Lindelof is one of the greatest CBs around, I don't mind it. And I'll enjoy watching real football in which players like Lindelof are just average premier league defenders who play in midtable PL teams.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Sure thing, keep pretending Lindelof is one of the greatest CBs around, I don't mind it. And I'll enjoy watching real football in which players like Lindelof are just average premier league defenders who play in midtable PL teams.

apart from the fact he’s one of two first choice CBs playing at the team who are second in the league...

As someone said earlier, he’s ok. He’s shown he can do a job at United, but we need a better centre half. however, he’s keeping himself fit and available, which is better than anyone not named Maguire over the last 8 years.

We need to buy at least one in the summer - and they better be a hell of a lot better than Lindelof.

 

[ivaldo]

Sure thing, keep pretending Lindelof is one of the greatest CBs around, I don't mind it. And I'll enjoy watching real football in which players like Lindelof are just average premier league defenders who play in midtable PL teams.

Real football? Is this a parody?

The opposition had one shot on target in 120 minutes of football, and you're here requesting gifs of minor mistakes in a desperate attempt to drive forward this sad agenda you have against one of our own players. I think RAWK wants their poster back.

 

[Amar__]

apart from the fact he’s one of two first choice CBs playing at the team who are second in the league...

As someone said earlier, he’s ok. He’s shown he can do a job at United, but we need a better centre half. however, he’s keeping himself fit and available, which is better than anyone not named Maguire over the last 8 years.

We need to buy at least one in the summer - and they better be a hell of a lot better than Lindelof.

You do realise only 8 teams have conceeded more goals than us?

And you basically just said why he is our first choice, and why we need an upgrade. You automatically become United's first choice CB just by being able to stay fit. Considering his playing style I am surprised he is ever injured tbf, I am yet to see him outmuscling someone, making some dangerous tackle, or winning any aerial with player near his height.

 

[Amar__]

Real football? Is this a parody?

The opposition had one shot on target in 120 minutes of football, and you're here requesting gifs of minor mistakes in a desperate attempt to drive forward this sad agenda you have against one of our own players. I think RAWK wants their poster back.

I am not sure if you ever read RAWK tbf, it's completely the opposite, they think their every player is world class and everything about their club is great, you would fit very well there.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

You do realise only 8 teams have conceeded more goals than us?

And you basically just said why he is our first choice, and why we need an upgrade. You automatically become United's first choice CB just by being able to stay fit. Considering his playing style I am surprised he is ever injured tbf, I am yet to see him outmuscling someone, making some dangerous tackle, or winning any aerial with player near his height.

im agreeing with you...

Just stating that he is playing for a top team.

unfortunately staying fit is an unusual trait for a United CB!

 

[ivaldo]

I praise some players and I criticise some players, I admit I can be biased since I like some more than others, that's classic fan behaviour for you.

Ivaldo, on the other hand, is acting like everything is great and he is defending every single player, every single manager, etc., everything is right in his book, not just under Ole, but even under all managers in the years behind.

Have you read his posts over the years? He is generally not a bad poster, but it is tiresome when some people pretend to be top reds all the time and not have any bad thing to say on anything regarding United, you would think we have won 50 throphies over last few years. Plus he is one of the most ignored posters on this forum right next to some of the worst posters of all time, so there must be a reason for that.

There's a difference between being critical of players/managers, and actively going out of your way to shit on them at every given opportunity. It's tragic that a 'supporter' would genuinely request gifs of any possible fault they can think of, however small, in order to build on an agenda they have against their own player. As I said: they had one shot on target in 120 minutes of football and you're here picking faults in his game.

Then we get the standard response to someone bringing you up on your terrible posting. You create your strawman argument. I've said it's pathetic to actively try to find ways to criticise our players, and you respond by claiming I think he's one of the best CBs in the world? Are you incapable of countering that point without turning it on me?

I'm one of the most ignored posters... because you'd have access to that. I mean, you have to go all the way back TWELVE HOURS to find me being critical of one of our own players - incredible stuff. If you're going to shitpost without tagging, at least make sure it can't be debunked with 30 seconds of effort.

Yes. I try to be positive about the team I follow. Old skool! You, on the other hand, seem to find great joy in bitching about 90% of our players at any given opportunity. Posters like you are why so many of the older members ignore the football forum.

I am not sure if you ever read RAWK tbf, it's completely the opposite, they think their every player is world class and everything about their club is great, you would fit very well there.

Yes, they praise their own players to high heaven and incessantly discuss our terrible ours are. I take it you're an admin there?

 

[ivaldo]

He's just acting like a normal fan while you're behaving like a 5 yr old.

Well said.

 

[MikeKing]

They had 2 banks of 5 at the back mate and had no interest in playing , it’s hardly an achievement to be shouting about

Yeah.

@A-man you mister have lost it. Joined after Lindelof was linked to us and hasn't been talking about anyone else since then. Sure, everyone else is trying to change peoples opinions on him in here and not you, with your mild contribution of one million posts. That's batshit nuts if you cant see the irony in you telling me that.

 

[A-man]

Yeah.

@A-man you mister have lost it. Joined after Lindelof was linked to us and hasn't been talking about anyone else since then. Sure, everyone else is trying to change peoples opinions on him in here and not you, with your mild contribution of one million posts. That's batshit nuts if you cant see the irony in you telling me that.

I remove my post. You can dance that silly dance alone.

 

[Amar__]

There's a difference between being critical of players/managers, and actively going out of your way to shit on them at every given opportunity. It's tragic that a 'supporter' would genuinely request gifs of any possible fault they can think of, however small, in order to build on an agenda they have against their own player. As I said: they had one shot on target in 120 minutes of football and you're here picking faults in his game.

Then we get the standard response to someone bringing you up on your terrible posting. You create your strawman argument. I've said it's pathetic to actively try to find ways to criticise our players, and you respond by claiming I think he's one of the best CBs in the world? Are you incapable of countering that point without turning it on me?

I'm one of the most ignored posters... because you'd have access to that. I mean, you have to go all the way back TWELVE HOURS to find me being critical of one of our own players - incredible stuff. If you're going to shitpost without tagging, at least make sure it can't be debunked with 30 seconds of effort.

Yes. I try to be positive about the team I follow. Old skool! You, on the other hand, seem to find great joy in bitching about 90% of our players at any given opportunity. Posters like you are why so many of the older members ignore the football forum.


Yes, they praise their own players to high heaven and incessantly discuss our terrible ours are. I take it you're an admin there?

I have an agenda

I have 10 posts in this 50 page thread and literally two of those are just before last game, the rest is this gibberish with you. Yeah, that is defimitely an agenda, anyone who doesn't agree with you regarding some player has an agenda.

You managed to criticise Bissaka one time for entire season, well done!

I stumbled upon that list, yes. I will send you the list if you want, hopefully it will make you better poster or you will probably end up like Ban and few others who didn't have any character or their own opinion on anything and were here just to defend everything regarding United related pretending to be top red of all time.

 

[ivaldo]

I have an agenda

I have 10 posts in this 50 page thread and literally two of those are just before last game, the rest is this gibberish with you. Yeah, that is defimitely an agenda, anyone who doesn't agree with you regarding some player has an agenda.

You managed to criticise Bissaka one time for entire season, well done!

I stumbled upon that list, yes. I will send you the list if you want, hopefully it will make you better poster or you will probably end up like Ban and few others who didn't have any character or their own opinion on anything and were here just to defend everything regarding United related pretending to be top red of all time.

You're asking for gifs of one of our own players about some inconsequential event that happened in order to demonstrate how bad he is, in a game where we conceded on shit on target in over 2 hours of football. Who does that?

Make your mind up. Apparently, I think everything about our team is perfect. Yet I had criticised a player earlier that day... The previous game I said De Gea's actions were inexcusable and he should be dropped. I frequently criticise Matic, but defended him recently because I feel him spending most of the game left of the CBs is a poor decision from the coaching staff. Again, this can all be proven by spending 30 seconds to go through my recent posts. But no, you're seemingly incapable of holding a considered argument without resorting to some ridiculous strawman argument. I think everything is amazing. Sure.

Where we differ is I don't actively go out of my way to shit on my own players. Nor do I think anyone who doesn't rip our players to shreds at every given opportunity is a 'Top Red.' Everything isn't either terrible or amazing, and I tend to call out anyone who makes a particular effort to shape things that way. That's also why posters like Ban took a particular disliking to you and your constant shitposting and why you tend to be name dropped in the private groups those of us who aren't perennial pessimists have fallen back to.

Sure. Go ahead and sent it me.

 

[A-man]

You do realise only 8 teams have conceeded more goals than us?

Just a quick note, if you’re going to use stats to complain about a certain player, be sure to use relevant stats.

You include matches where Bailly and Tuanzebe have played instead of Lindelof, and with those as CBs we have conceded 52% more goals per match than in matches with Lindelof. That is skewing the stats.

With Lindelof as CB there are 5 teams that have conceded less than us.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Just a quick note, if you’re going to use stats to complain about a certain player, be sure to use relevant stats.

You include matches where Bailly and Tuanzebe have played instead of Lindelof, and with those as CBs we have conceded 52% more goals per match than in matches with Lindelof. That is skewing the stats.

With Lindelof as CB there are 5 teams that have conceded less than us.

What skews the stats is that Bailly played in the freak 6-1 game.

This bottom stat also doesn't work because that makes us concede 20 goals in 17 games... and you're comparing that to teams who have played 22/23 games.

 

[Caesar2290]

What skews the stats is that Bailly played in the freak 6-1 game.

This bottom stat also doesn't work because that makes us concede 20 goals in 17 games... and you're comparing that to teams who have played 22/23 games.

He's going by goals per game ratio

 

[Annihilate Now!]

He's going by goals per game ratio

Ah, In which case there's 6 teams by my calculations (City, Chelsea, Leicester, Arsenal, Villa, Spurs) - so nothing to really be bragging about

 

[wolvored]

Its obvious we need an upgrade on Lindelof. Someone who is less timid, not so easy to knock off the ball and is quicker. Ole wont be getting rid of Maguire as he would look like a mug as he bought him and paid a world record fee. I also think the fact Maguire is playing on the left when hes always played on the right before and i right footed, may also work against him. Even if we had bought Maguire for £30 mill I would still upgrade on Lindelof first. As for who...well thats the question. Looking at a couple of left footed centre halves Zagadou from Dortmund looks good. Torres from Villarreal looks great as well.

 

[A-man]

What skews the stats is that Bailly played in the freak 6-1 game.

This bottom stat also doesn't work because that makes us concede 20 goals in 17 games... and you're comparing that to teams who have played 22/23 games.

Yes the Spurs game will make Bailly's stats look bad, as will all matches where we concede lots of goals. But that was not the point.

If someone is complaining about Lindelof and uses stats as argument, it makes sense to look at the matches he has played. We have conceded 1.125 goals per game with him as CB. Five teams have conceded less per game:

City 0.637
Spurs 1.000
Arsenal 1.000
Chelsea 1.043
Leicester 1.087
United 1.125
Villa 1.142
all other teams

Nobody has said it is anything to brag about. But this the correct data. City have conceded significantly less goals, the others are so close that one game can change everything.


In these matches, we have also been able to score a lot of goals. In the 16 games as Lindelof played, we scored 39 goals. That is 2.438 goals per game which is higher than all other teams' averages.

Goals scored per game:
United 2.438
City 1.955
Villa 1.714
Leicester 1.696
Chelsea 1.652
Spurs 1.636
Arsenal 1.174

 

[RedDevilCanuck]

I'm very critical of him but he has been pretty good lately. Better than his partner.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Yes the Spurs game will make Bailly's stats look bad, as will all matches where we concede lots of goals. But that was not the point.

If someone is complaining about Lindelof and uses stats as argument, it makes sense to look at the matches he has played. We have conceded 1.125 goals per game with him as CB. Five teams have conceded less per game:

City 0.637
Spurs 1.000
Arsenal 1.000
Chelsea 1.043
Leicester 1.087
United 1.125
Villa 1.142
all other teams

Nobody has said it is anything to brag about. But this the correct data. City have conceded significantly less goals, the others are so close that one game can change everything.


In these matches, we have also been able to score a lot of goals. In the 16 games as Lindelof played, we scored 39 goals. That is 2.438 goals per game which is higher than all other teams' averages.

Goals scored per game:
United 2.438
City 1.955
Villa 1.714
Leicester 1.696
Chelsea 1.652
Spurs 1.636
Arsenal 1.174

It's not really important but Lindelof has played 17 games, not 16.... so it's 1.176, which puts us below Villa.

 

[A-man]

It's not really important but Lindelof has played 17 games, not 16.... so it's 1.176, which puts us below Villa.

It is correct, but I was comparing CB pairs. He has played 16 games as CB and one as RB. Right or wrong, but that is what I did, and as you write it does not change anything significantly.
(It was CBs that were discussed)

 

[Caesar2290]

I don't think that we have a Lindelof or Maguire problem, I think we have a pairing problem.

Does anyone remember the Fedinand-Evans partnership? No, because it sucked.

Vidic-Evans on the other hand played most of their games during that famous 2008-2009 run where we established a world record for minutes without conceding a goal.

The reason I'm bringing it up is because both Lindelof and Maguire are too similar in their defensive approach. They are reactive just like Evans. This is also the reason they just don't feel right together. There is no chemistry.

This why Bailly looks so good next to Maguire because he has a front foot aggressive proactive defensive style. Similar to Vidic.

So this window we basically need to buy a CB that resemble's Bailly's defensive style and that can actually stay fit. And our defense will be sorted. Oh, and get a GK that can actually come off his line to claim a cross from time to time.

 

[MikeKing]

I remove my post. You can dance that silly dance alone.

I don't know what you posted but I get the sentiment and you're right I was out of line. No need to get so heated, even if the discussions on Lindelof in some ways have hit a deadlock. United are doing pretty well, why are we so getting so riled up.

 

[A-man]

I don't know what you posted but I get the sentiment and you're right I was out of line. No need to get so heated, even if the discussions on Lindelof in some ways have hit a deadlock. United are doing pretty well, why are we so getting so riled up.

I was just getting a bit emotional and a bit rude... as you say we’re doing well so let’s argue peacefully

 

[Based Adnan]

Whilst he had to be stronger it's a foul all day for me

 

[Adam-Utd]

Lindepoof returns. Useless and will never ever be good enough for this league.

We had to park mctominay on him all game to help him aerially which says it all, he’s compromising the team!

 

[TsuWave]

awful

 

[ivaldo]

His poorest game for some time. Should be stronger for the goal, even if it's truly incredible that it wasn't given as a foul.

 

[FrankDrebin]

Get this soft touch out of the club.

 

[Red00012]

Absolutely useless

A-Man will be under pressure defending him tonight

 

[Vidyoyo]

Whilst he had to be stronger it's a foul all day for me

Same for me. I don't think we drew because of our defence today. Although they were hardly rock solid, our attack was much worse. There's no reason a team like ours should be struggling to put more than 1 past WBA.

 

[slored1]

Pathetic. Weak as feck.

 

[Godfather]

He's fecking shit

 

[mu4c_20le]

Classic Lindelof today, nothing to write home about.

 

[Red Shorts]

He's just weak. No fight or bravery in the guy.

Big questions on it being a foul, but why no fight to win the ball first ahead of him in the first place? The sooner we find a replacement the better

 

[#07]

Lindelof will never be good enough for any team that wants to win the league.

 

[sincher]

Not at fault IMO. He was fouled. Maguire had a shakier game at the back.

 

[Harry190]

Can't defend on the backfoot.

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

Not good enough simple as, so what he can play the odd pass from the back his job first and foremost is to defend and he’s shite at it.