Acquire Me
Full Member
Got to laugh of the guy. So immature.
Wasn't even a real title eitherGlad Keane shut him straight down. Getting arrogant for someone that’s only really had 1 good season and plays for a team that’s won 1 premier league title.
It's definitely not helped that, bar 08/09, neither of us have been in competition for the title at the same time. When we were good, you weren't. Now that you're good, we aren't. It's pretty unique, really. We are the big two in England but have never really had a prolonged title chase throughout multiple seasons between us like Real Madrid and Barcelona, AC Milan and Inter, Bayern Munich and Dortmund have. In my lifetime, anywayYou should be happy he said what he said. Brings a little spice back into the rivalry which has been missing.
People are funny get so offended over what VVD said. He has a bit of a point and if one of our players would be taking the piss out of a rival club like that, many here would cheer it.
Can't believe how much an honest remark has rattled these scouse clowns They're rolling out all their dinosaurs. Kenny next?
Can't believe how much an honest remark has rattled these scouse clowns They're rolling out all their dinosaurs. Kenny next?
Inter probably.Italy next I imagine.
Doesn’t make sense. He came in 2019. Won the league, CL, FA cup, and league cupInter probably.
Then, how do you rate him in PL, if he leaves at the end of the season
1. With Liverpool not winning any trophy.
2. With Liverpool winning the league title
You didn't understand my questionDoesn’t make sense. He came in 2019. Won the league, CL, FA cup, and league cup
Doesn’t make sense. He came in 2019. Won the league, CL, FA cup, and league cup
And that’s why a player’s trophy haul is a limited metric.But if he doesn't win any of those trophies for a second time, is that enough to still rank him among the best ever PL defenders?
Right now his trophy haul doesn't even compare to Gary Cahill, let alone some of the PL greats.
It is. Performances are important as well. He was great for a limited time, and wasn't anymore after that, reverting to a good but not excellent defender - being actually pretty bad at times. He'll rank as being one of the good PL defenders historically, but not one of the greats - just a level behind them.And that’s why a player’s trophy haul is a limited metric.
Think that's sort of how I see it, also. A peak for around 12-18 months at an extremely high level, with the rest of his time at Saints/Pool ranging from decent to pretty good.He was great for a limited time, and wasn't anymore after that, reverting to a good but not excellent defender - being actually pretty bad at times. He'll rank as being one of the good PL defenders historically, but not one of the greats - just a level behind them.
The Caf PR machine routinely includes Stam as well in those "greats" lists.Then the Pool PR machine (which in fairness has been ongoing for him for a while) will try to make sure he is always included in "all time greats" debates, obviously.
Yeah, better defender than Van Dijk, but too short a time in the PL to reasonably be in there.The Caf PR machine routinely includes Stam as well in those "greats" lists.
No, just pointing out that your own fanbase is guilty of overhyping your own players as well. And that a "Liverpool PR machine" doesn't really exist in reality.Yeah, better defender than Van Dijk, but too short a time in the PL to reasonably be in there.
Not quite sure how that's relevant though? Was it your gotcha moment?
Terms like "your own fanbase" don't actually mean anything though. It also has nothing to do with me or my opinions?No, just pointing out that your own fanbase is guilty of overhyping your own players as well. And that a "Liverpool PR machine" doesn't really exist in reality.
Stam won 3 league titles in 3 years, including a treble. He also won a lot before and after United which strengthens the argument he was an excellent defender, but doesn't add to his Premier League achievements.No, just pointing out that your own fanbase is guilty of overhyping your own players as well. And that a "Liverpool PR machine" doesn't really exist in reality.
Just imagine your captain saying something like that. Way to add to the uncertainty.
I think that just comes from an anti-Liverpool bias.It is. Performances are important as well. He was great for a limited time, and wasn't anymore after that, reverting to a good but not excellent defender - being actually pretty bad at times. He'll rank as being one of the good PL defenders historically, but not one of the greats - just a level behind them.
Then the Pool PR machine (which in fairness has been ongoing for him for a while) will try to make sure he is always included in "all time greats" debates, obviously.
But which "narrative" are you referring to here? I think I am trying to argue that you tend to rate a lot of Liverpool-related things very (extremely) negative because of your dislike of our club. I think you're a great poster but when it comes to Liverpool I routinely find myself thinking that you come across very negative / bitter / biased, whatever you'd like to call it. But it is striking, to me at least.Terms like "your own fanbase" don't actually mean anything though. It also has nothing to do with me or my opinions?
The amount of ex-Liverpool players in the media is actually very real, as is "the Liverpool PR machine" - you just need to see the narrative around the club in general and around Klopp more recently to see how tangible is. You've also already said on this forum you don't follow British media, so what exactly are you arguing here?
It used to be waaayyyy more fun in the football forums when we were still bad, before Klopp came around and during his early days. When most used to laugh at us - now quite a few have turned into the conspiracy theory guys they used to mock back in the days. Trying to stay clear from Liverpool-discussions as much as possible.You used to be so reasonable, Robin
As someone said above, a player's trophy haul is a limited metric. Stam just happened to be part of a historically strong United team, that's not (entirely) related to how good a defender he was. Van Dijk won everything he could've won at Liverpool in a relatively short timeframe, whilst going up against a better domestic opponent than United did in Stam's period. I actually think they would be in the same tier for me, which is one below the very best defenders.Stam won 3 league titles in 3 years, including a treble. He also won a lot before and after United which strengthens the argument he was an excellent defender, but doesn't add to his Premier League achievements.
Not sure if your argument works here.
It used to be waaayyyy more fun in the football forums when we were still bad, before Klopp came around and during his early days. When most used to laugh at us - now quite a few have turned into the conspiracy theory guys they used to mock back in the days. Trying to stay clear from Liverpool-discussions as much as possible.
You can't handle another Dennis Allen / Derek Carr led season on your own in there mateAh now I know what I need to do to drive you out of the NFL thread. There's only room for one Saints in there.
I actually think you're underplaying Van Dijk there.As someone said above, a player's trophy haul is a limited metric. Stam just happened to be part of a historically strong United team, that's not (entirely) related to how good a defender he was. Van Dijk won everything he could've won at Liverpool in a relatively short timeframe, whilst going up against a better domestic opponent than United did in Stam's period. I actually think they would be in the same tier for me, which is one below the very best defenders.