Was it a pen?

[Zlatan 7]

Or you know you have to raise your arms out wide when jumping to gain leverage? Reminds of that clip of Duncan Ferguson when he was booked for having his arms out and mocked the ref by bouncing around like a pogo stick!

His technique was feckin daft and he shouldn't of been jumping and turning his back but it was ball to hand and not hand to ball. Dalot hit it with such pace he didn't get a chance for anything else but for it to hit his arm.

But he jumped into a shape that purposely left his arm out flailing imo. He’s watching the ball right upto when it’s hit then jumps into the biggest shape possible. His two palms are facing the ball when it connects with him so he was expecting it to possibly hit him.

It seems a harsh pen because of the circumstances and the shot appeared to be going over anyway. Still a pen though.

 

[stepic]

But he jumped into a shape that purposely left his arm out flailing imo. He’s watching the ball right upto when it’s hit then jumps into the biggest shape possible. His two palms are facing the ball when it connects with him so he was expecting it to possibly hit him.

It seems a harsh pen because of the circumstances and the shot appeared to be going over anyway. Still a pen though.

So defenders have to jump a certain way now? Basically their ability to defend properly is now nullified because they have to keep their arms right by their side when jumping or running or defending. That inhibits defenders too much and I don’t think was ever the spirit of the original rule.

That being said once he went to var I knew it would be given under the current rules.

 

[Dve]

I think we´ll just have to trust the ref on this one as he got to see the situation over and over again. When you are the referee in a match between United and PSG in the CL, you probable know the rules.

 

[Acole9]

I didn't think it was but who cares .

 

[Fully Fledged]

I think we´ll just have to trust the ref on this one as he got to see the situation over and over again. When you are the referee in a match between United and PSG in the CL, you probable know the rules.

It wasn't only him. The one watching VAR obviously thought it was a pen to ask the ref to look at it. The one from BT said it was a pen before the match ref called it then the Match ref called it. 3 Champions League standard refs said it was a pen but posters on the CAF knows better.

 

[Keefy18]

But he jumped into a shape that purposely left his arm out flailing imo. He’s watching the ball right upto when it’s hit then jumps into the biggest shape possible. His two palms are facing the ball when it connects with him so he was expecting it to possibly hit him.

It seems a harsh pen because of the circumstances and the shot appeared to be going over anyway. Still a pen though.

Exactly what Stepic said, we are expecting defenders to defy the laws of physics. All humans jump a certain way with their arms out wide.

It was blatantly ball to hand, not hand to ball. A blatant example of a hand to ball incident is obviously Henry vs Ireland (yes I opened up that can of worms) or Maradona.

The kid just jumped and the ball smashed his arm, little he could of done in real time to stop that happening due to the power in the shot.

Ask yourself this if we went out to that decision would you be happy and say fair play PSG and credit to the ref for getting that decision spot on.

 

[kouroux]

It is crazy the number of people who wanna argue with a straightforward rule. Like I am speechless tbh.

 

[Keefy18]

It wasn't only him. The one watching VAR obviously thought it was a pen to ask the ref to look at it. The one from BT said it was a pen before the match ref called it then the Match ref called it. 3 Champions League standard refs said it was a pen but posters on the CAF knows better.

You say that like its a standard bearer of quality, CL refs are some of the worst I've seen in the game.

The amount of poxy, horrendous decisions in recent years is mind boggling. Weather it was Nani's "red card" or Chelsea being absolutely robbed in the match against "UEFA"Lona, or UEFA officials blatantly refusing to enforce offside rules against Real / Ronaldo. Everyone raving about how wonderful he was that year and at least 7 or 8 goals were completely offside or for diving (penalties) repeatedly.

 

[Drz]

I have vague memories of a game vs Chelsea, when one of their players was ran down one side, with most of our defence in position and barely anyone in blue to aim for, the player whipped in a cross, Carrick was covering but turns around yet the ball bends to strike his arm which wasn't particularly away from his body. Penalty given. I was livid. Still hate that moment.
So it has happened against us. Why not for us.
Lesson to be learned: Have the coj0nes to go in face first. A la Jones.

 

[Ali Dia]

No VAR no peno for sure. That’s how soft it was. We love VAR now! the stakes were huge and the shot probably wasn’t going in... but by the letter of the law it was a penalty. What a take by Rashford too!

 

[Zed 101]

The kid just jumped and the ball smashed his arm, little he could of done in real time to stop that happening due to the power in the shot.

I get what you are saying but he jumped with his arm foremost in the direction of the block he was trying to make,
was his intention to use his arm? no of course not,
but he also had no care for where the ball might hit him when he made that leap and turned his back
What he could have done was to keep his eye on the ball so that he could at least make an attempt to not handball
It is like using carelessness as an excuse
He placed himself in that position with no way of controlling the outcome of whether he comitted a foul or not, that was a deliberate act therefore the handball was deliberate

 

[cyberman]

Exactly what Stepic said, we are expecting defenders to defy the laws of physics. All humans jump a certain way with their arms out wide.

It was blatantly ball to hand, not hand to ball. A blatant example of a hand to ball incident is obviously Henry vs Ireland (yes I opened up that can of worms) or Maradona.

The kid just jumped and the ball smashed his arm, little he could of done in real time to stop that happening due to the power in the shot.

Ask yourself this if we went out to that decision would you be happy and say fair play PSG and credit to the ref for getting that decision spot on.

He didn't have to jump? I'm amazed people never remember this. He jumped to make himself bigger and block the ball. That action, and choice, means its a penalty.
I hate that argument, as if he's forced to throw his arm out there due to science.

 

[Keefy18]

He didn't have to jump? I'm amazed people never remember this. He jumped to make himself bigger and block the ball. That action, and choice, means its a penalty.
I hate that argument, as if he's forced to throw his arm out there due to science.

No he didn't have to jump, he chose to as you rightly say. That doesn't make it a penalty though, players can jump and block shots. What would make it a penalty is a clear and intentional hand ball. I personally don't think it was completely clear cut to say he definitely moved his hand towards the ball to block it.

 

[Snowjoe]

Anyone would think you lose all control of your arms the moment your feet leave the floor

 

[Zlatan 7]

So defenders have to jump a certain way now? Basically their ability to defend properly is now nullified because they have to keep their arms right by their side when jumping or running or defending. That inhibits defenders too much and I don’t think was ever the spirit of the original rule.

That being said once he went to var I knew it would be given under the current rules.

I didn’t say that. I said imo he purposely threw his arms into that position knowing what he was doing.

I don’t expect players to jump around like pogo sticks

 

[cyberman]

No he didn't have to jump, he chose to as you rightly say. That doesn't make it a penalty though, players can jump and block shots. What would make it a penalty is a clear and intentional hand ball. I personally don't think it was completely clear cut to say he definitely moved his hand towards the ball to block it.

Jumping like that is a risk as is going to ground. You can mistime a tackle or follow through and give away a fool, nobody argues about physics when that happens?
I just saw it again and there's three players that charge to Dalot and its only Ken-whatever- that is jumping with his arm out. Even then its out because the arm is already raised high on his chest and its a scissor motion as if he's recreating Ronaldos celebration.
Its a cowardly jump, he's swinging around because he doesn't want to get hit in the face and that's his choice. He can jump forward without twisting and take the impact with his arms under control
It's poor technique and his ineptitude shouldn't be an excuse.

 

[RetroStu]

I think people, especially rival fans, must of been wathcing the game with the sound muted because when the ref went over to use VAR, the commentator clearly said that he was told that Uefa and the refs said before the game that they are clamping down on this and if a player makes himself bigger by using his arms, intentional or not, it will be given as a penalty from this point on.
Under the 'old' rules, it would of been very harsh, but under this supposed new rules, it was the right decision because if his arm hadn't of been there, the ball wouldnt of hit him.

 

[sullydnl]

Ultimately it comes down to this: the decision was absolutely in line with the guidlines provided to the referees and entirely consistent with other handball decisions given in both the CL and WC. In fact the WC had several examples of these "harsh" handballs all given as penalties, because that's the way the authorities want the handball rule enforced. The referee and VAR were both entirely correct in the way they handled it based on how they're told to handle it. That makes it the correct decision.

Now people can complain about this interpretation of the handball rule all they like, it still doesn't stop the decision to award the penalty being correct.

 

[Dante]

His right arm travelled 2 metres towards the ball because of the jumping spin.

The arm that touched the ball started on one side of his body then ended up on the opposite side of his body.

It was hand-to-ball.

 

[Dve]

You say that like its a standard bearer of quality, CL refs are some of the worst I've seen in the game.

The amount of poxy, horrendous decisions in recent years is mind boggling. Weather it was Nani's "red card" or Chelsea being absolutely robbed in the match against "UEFA"Lona, or UEFA officials blatantly refusing to enforce offside rules against Real / Ronaldo. Everyone raving about how wonderful he was that year and at least 7 or 8 goals were completely offside or for diving (penalties) repeatedly.

CL ref are supposed to be some of the best in the game. Otherwise, they wouldn´t be there in the first place. This time, they even got the chance to look at it again, so former mistakes made by refs is really no argument.

 

[Escobar]

It is crazy the number of people who wanna argue with a straightforward rule. Like I am speechless tbh.

Must be a good feeling for them to be "controversial".

The only reason the ref did not give the pen first was because he didn't see it. Hence the VAR ref told him to check, he did, et voila, clear pen

 

[Class of 63]

Never a penalty in a million years, but who cares, and the fact Kimpembe shouldn't have been on the pitch to score at Old Trafford makes it all the sweeter.

 

[Chairman Woodie]

A bit soft but it's karma for Kimpembe, should have been sent off at OT.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[kouroux]

[ one watching VAR obviously thought it w

Must be a good feeling for them to be "controversial".

The only reason the ref did not give the pen first was because he didn't see it. Hence the VAR ref told him to check, he did, et voila, clear pen

The good feeling is knowing it was a legit pen for me

 

[AfroBuffalo]

Was flying in top bins; would have been a Dalot last minute screamer if his arm hadn’t have blocked it. 100% pen.

 

[#07]

This ludicrous idea that you cannot jump without flailing your arms about is rubbish. Look at the wall below. Every player has his hands down:

The rules are clear: Make yourself a bigger obstacle for the ball and you run the risk of being penalised. Keep your hands close to your body and you'll be fine. Nobody is going to give a foul for a ball that hits your arm planted on your pecs. Its the natural circumference of your body. Gain and advantage by making yourself bigger and its a foul. Do it in the box. Its a penalty. Why is that so tough to grasp?

 

[2015]

Never a penalty in a million years, but who cares, and the fact Kimpembe shouldn't have been on the pitch to score at Old Trafford makes it all the sweeter.

Pretty naive to think you know it better than a Champions League Level referee after Video Consultation. Will never understand statements like this.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

I'd say more like the pen in the final of the World Cup

that too

 

[Rado_N]

This ludicrous idea that you cannot jump without flailing your arms about is rubbish. Look at the wall below. Every player has his hands down:

The rules are clear: Make yourself a bigger obstacle for the ball and you run the risk of being penalised. Keep your hands close to your body and you'll be fine. Nobody is going to give a foul for a ball that hits your arm planted on your pecs. Its the natural circumference of your body. Gain and advantage by making yourself bigger and its a foul. Do it in the box. Its a penalty. Why is that so tough to grasp?

Those players are jumping vertically from a stationary position, it's completely different to being on the move.

 

[breakout67]

His arms were blocking the ball like a goalkeeper. He was turning away with his trailing arm contorted towards the same direction as his leading arm. When you turn your body your arms don't gravitate towards the same point, because the joints are located on each side of the body. The ball touching the hand wasn't the giveaway, rather it was his other hand which was clearly making a shield to stop the ball going past him.

 

[vidic blood & sand]

It was harsh I think because it wasn't an intentional handball. But it's the rules I'm afraid

 

[simplyared]

Penalty 100%. Can't understand what all the fuss is about tbh. If he'd not given it then you'd might as well through the rule book out of the window.

 

[Gazza]

Remember Carrick at Stamford Bridge in 2007/08? Penalty then and penalty last night. I have little sympathy for defenders who turn their backs to the ball when facing a shot or cross.

 

[nycender]

Stonewaller

 

[Miscemayl]

It's a soft pen but a pen to me
You can see he extended his arm just before turning his back, clearly to make himself bigger.

I still remember the one on Carrick against Chelsea so good to have that work for us for once

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Clear pen.

The argument that he turned his back means it isn't a pen is beyond stupid.

You can turn your back and not flail your arms outwards.

 

[Jetrooooo]

Think its a clear pen. If it happened at Burnley -Newcastle over the weekend, nobody talks about it. Its very soft and at such a crucial moment where we probably didnt deserve more. I get the sentiment that people dont want it to be a penalty. But by the rules its a clear pen.

 

[Class of 63]

Pretty naive to think you know it better than a Champions League Level referee after Video Consultation. Will never understand statements like this.

Lose the attitude pal, it wasn't an obvious penalty or the Ref would have given it on first viewing. Even with VAR assistant Referees do still make wrong calls you know.

 

[cyberman]

Lose the attitude pal, it wasn't an obvious penalty or the Ref would have given it on first viewing. Even with VAR assistant Referees do still make wrong calls you know.

The ref might not have known it hit his arm though

 

[2015]

Lose the attitude pal, it wasn't an obvious penalty or the Ref would have given it on first viewing. Even with VAR assistant Referees do still make wrong calls you know.

Above you said "never in a million years" and now you changed it to "not an obvious penalty". So what is it now? I only agree that it wasn't an obvious penalty in real time, which is the reason why VAR exists.