We're starting to see the basis of a proper squad

[amolbhatia50k]

We always had the squad for a top 4 finish. Mourinho finished 2nd a short while back. Lvg got 4th before him. Let's not pretend it's now starting to come together for us. We always had some very good players and we now have some very good players. A short while back people felt the midfield was sorted when we had Matic (in form), Herrera and Pogba. And the attack had Rashford, Martial and Lukaku and we started the season on fire, with Sanchez being added to the team at the time.

Also, we really need to give players some time to perform before we feel they're part of a strong 'core'. Mctominay is still a kid and has lots to prove. Maguire has just arrived. AWB has to show some qualities going forward.

 

[Kajus]

feck me, Ole is not currently the problem. The problem is a lack of creative flare players that can break down teams before it hits the forward line when they sit deep. Its the reason we are so much better and more organised against better teams because the game opens up. You cannot turn average players into those types of players and he has the likes of Mata and Lingard to pick from in that role.

If Ole had a skillful number 10 and Pogba wasn't injured, we would look a whole lot better against lesser teams as well.

Haven't you heard? Any random championship manager would win the quadruple if given this team instead of Ole. Including the Champions League.

 

[Steven-UK]

We've all written off this season now, right? Let's look to the rebuild process and focus on what's needed to complete the job. If they'd all left in the summer, not many would have been missed. But I would say that, when all are fit, we have a decent enough core at a good age to build upon.

We have a core of players now who are, imho, good enough to get us back to the top 4 with the right players around them:
DeGea
Wan-Bissaka
Maguire
Mctominay
Pogba
Rashford
Martial

We have a small group of players who are perfectly good enough to be squad/rotation players next season:
Romero
Shaw
Lindelof
James

We have some that can be retained as decent backup players or sold without really losing anything:
Jones
Rojo
Bailly
Dalot
Fred
Lingard
Pereira

That leaves some older players who have to leave next summer, so shouldn't play unless there's no one else available:
Young
Matic
Mata


So, that's 7 first teamers I'd be content with starting next season. As it stands then we need a LB, CB, CM and RW with another CM and CF to upgrade our cover/competition. That's 6 players needed.

Though of course there's a large group of young players that I haven't mentioned yet. While I understand the calls for Greenwood to start, I haven't personally seen enough yet to think he's going to be first team regular within 2 years. Garner, Gomes and Chong even less. Williams has looked really good but I want to see him get a good run of games. He and Shaw together might be enough to not need a LB.
Tuanzebe looks to me to be closest to PL starter level and, as it stands, I think he will show enough this season, that we can delay a CB signing.

The kids will continue to get chances this season through necessity. It's up to them to prove that we don't need some of those positions to be filled. If Axel and Williams are up to the job, then adding 2 CMs, RW and a CF would make us competitive again, if we can get those signings right. That doesn't seem so far off to me.

Could any of the other kids cement a place? Would bringing in a new manager now simply reset things all over again?

I don't post an awful lot in the united section. It's a busy place with a lot of noise.. and I'm kinda old
But I do read and totally understand everyones frustrations with our current level, there will certainly be ups and downs this year, possibly the worst we've seen since Ferguson left. But let's leave the blame game for other threads and try to find the positive way forward. Whether our future is with Ole, in some ways doesn't matter. I can now see how our squad can be functional, if not yet exceptional, within a year or so and a realistic number of signings. When in recent times, we had far more problems than solutions. Now at least, we have a fairly solid base from which to build.

James has easily been one of our best players this season.

James, Bissaka, De Gea, Maguire. Only them.

Nail hit firmly on the head

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Haven't you heard? Any random championship manager would win the quadruple if given this team instead of Ole. Including the Champions League.

Useless post given nobody thinks that.

 

[Imperator]

The whole squad pretty much needs purging save for a few. Out of the entire first team squad the only players worth keeping are:

De Gea
Maguire
Wan-Bissaka
Tuanzebe
Pogba
James
Rashford

So 7 players. And even of those seven, I would sell De Gea and Pogba as I don't think there is any point in having these top players (on their day) while the rest of the team is barely Championship standard. So I'll put that down to five players.

The rest need to be sold, terminated, sacked, whatever.

Lindelöf - A defender who cannot seem to do any basic defending. Can't head the ball. Poor positioning. Invites disaster. I can't even see any potential in him as a squad player and consider him worse than Jones.

Jones - Too old, not good enough... too depressed to continue

Smalling - Not of required standard

Rojo - Has never been good enough. Has always reminded me of some sort of conman who managed to somehow stumble into the team, like there's no history of it, and you can't explain how or why.

A. Young - Although he always tries his best, his best is very poor in every position and he has overstayed his time at this club by about five or six years.

Dalot - like Lindelöf, although not quite as bad... I just can't see him making the grade.

Shaw - perennially injured, overweight, just generally unfit and another in a long list of players who haven't lived up to the hype

Mata - it's not even really Mata any more. I feel like he has escaped and his ghost is still on the pitch. Legs gone.

Lingard - the less said about Lingard, the better.

Pereira - like Rojo, semi-professional, doesn't fit here, less than average ability

Fred - we need to trick Fred into terminating his own contract. Tell him he's getting a wage rise (he'll believe it) and make him sign the papers

Matić - like Mata, a complete liability. No longer interested in performing and couldn't even if he wanted to

McTominay - while he has shown some improvement over the last couple of months, he is simply not good enough and never will be. I personally would try to get him out as soon as we can but we might have to keep him for a bit longer considering we already need to replace 80% of the squad and he's not one of the foremost problems.

Martial - another one who is permanently injured. Seems to have lost all confidence. Probably better to get shut while we can still get anything for him.

 

[ash_86]

That doesnt mean it should be our aim, for the last 30 years we always finished above third place. Really people are starting to get used to mediocrity here, thats the thing with stop winning for so long people get used to it.

We aren't even finishing in top 4 consistently and how can we think about titles. Our goals should reflect based on where we are rather than where we were once. We use to call Liverpool fans delusional for this kind of shit.

 

[DVG7]

We've all written off this season now, right? Let's look to the rebuild process and focus on what's needed to complete the job. If they'd all left in the summer, not many would have been missed. But I would say that, when all are fit, we have a decent enough core at a good age to build upon.

We have a core of players now who are, imho, good enough to get us back to the top 4 with the right players around them:
DeGea
Wan-Bissaka
Maguire
Mctominay
Pogba
Rashford
Martial

We have a small group of players who are perfectly good enough to be squad/rotation players next season:
Romero
Shaw
Lindelof
James

We have some that can be retained as decent backup players or sold without really losing anything:
Jones
Rojo
Bailly
Dalot
Fred
Lingard
Pereira

That leaves some older players who have to leave next summer, so shouldn't play unless there's no one else available:
Young
Matic
Mata


So, that's 7 first teamers I'd be content with starting next season. As it stands then we need a LB, CB, CM and RW with another CM and CF to upgrade our cover/competition. That's 6 players needed.

Though of course there's a large group of young players that I haven't mentioned yet. While I understand the calls for Greenwood to start, I haven't personally seen enough yet to think he's going to be first team regular within 2 years. Garner, Gomes and Chong even less. Williams has looked really good but I want to see him get a good run of games. He and Shaw together might be enough to not need a LB.
Tuanzebe looks to me to be closest to PL starter level and, as it stands, I think he will show enough this season, that we can delay a CB signing.

The kids will continue to get chances this season through necessity. It's up to them to prove that we don't need some of those positions to be filled. If Axel and Williams are up to the job, then adding 2 CMs, RW and a CF would make us competitive again, if we can get those signings right. That doesn't seem so far off to me.

Could any of the other kids cement a place? Would bringing in a new manager now simply reset things all over again?

I don't post an awful lot in the united section. It's a busy place with a lot of noise.. and I'm kinda old
But I do read and totally understand everyones frustrations with our current level, there will certainly be ups and downs this year, possibly the worst we've seen since Ferguson left. But let's leave the blame game for other threads and try to find the positive way forward. Whether our future is with Ole, in some ways doesn't matter. I can now see how our squad can be functional, if not yet exceptional, within a year or so and a realistic number of signings. When in recent times, we had far more problems than solutions. Now at least, we have a fairly solid base from which to build.

Im with you on the positivity front pal. I think you're pretty spot on with the 7 you picked, assuming that all can play to their potential which unfortunately isn't a given. Ideally, we sign players that bring the best out of those respective players, and I do think the squad needs a very vocal leader who won't accept anything less than 100% effort at all times. I don't know if that player is in the squad right now, so we will perhaps have to sign someone to meet that requirement, or perhaps Maguire takes on that mantle after his first season and earns the respect of his team-mates.

What's encouraging about the players you mention is they come from all the areas of the park, so we do have that going for us in terms of a world class goalkeeper, and talented defenders/mids/attackers. The squad probably doesn't need a complete overhaul and realistically that can't happen anyway, so it maybe makes the most sense to identify transfer targets that can bring out the best in the squad regulars, as well as bringing something different to the table.

That being said, I would be very surprised if we didn't have two of our young players go on to have fairly successful careers at Old Trafford, with Greenwood and Garner the most promising (although Williams and Tuanzebe can lay claim to being better performers so far) so when you consider that they could end up realizing their potential, your 7 players could be boosted entirely by our own academy so the starting xi looks like

De Gea
Wan Bissaka
Tuanzebe
Maguire
Williams

Garner
Mctominay
Pogba

Greenwood
Martial
Rashford

I would probably be in a minority, But right now i would settle for that starting XI to begin out 20/21 season and let them have an extended run just to see if it could potentially lead to something great. Right now, the average age of that team is 22. There would be so much more joy to take from watching that group grow together and win together and I don't think its beyond the realms of possibility that it can compete in the premier league and in Europe, assuming everyone realizes their potential. I think sometimes we have to remind ourselves that being signed by Manchester United is a pretty big deal for a young player, and as such it's natural that our academy will produce some incredible talent every now and then. Right now that squad is on course to be boosted by the likes of Hannibal Mejbri too, and to me it's just more satisfying as a fan to know that we could put some trust in a group of pre-dominantly academy players and maybe, just maybe it could stick. I don't measure my happiness in life off of the trophies Man Utd win, but I do get a lot of enjoyment still when the team plays well. We have an exciting core group and exceptional talent coming through, and i'd rather see us merge it all together than throw money around. It would just be worth more. And if you prefer Saudi Ownership to that scenario, then frankly you've lost sight of what it means to truly support a football team.

 

[SAFMUTD]

We aren't even finishing in top 4 consistently and how can we think about titles. Our goals should reflect based on where we are rather than where we were once. We use to call Liverpool fans delusional for this kind of shit.

The main difference between that Liverpool and us right now is that we have the economic power to do it.

That our board is full of incompetence is another thing, but winning trophies is totally achievable and I dont think we should settle for anything less.

But lets just agree to disagree, what’s enough for you it’s clearly not enough for me.

 

[Dargonk]

So what the OP is saying is we basically have 7 first team players, and then a couple of fill in players, before the rest of the squad is simply backup/won't be missed. This hardly gives the basis of a good proper squad. If you want something to build from you at the very least need a good first 11, before you have back up players. Based on that, we are still at the point where we have to build the first 11 to a level to even compete to get into the top 4, let alone push beyond that. And this is all before you factor in, the longer we sit mid table, the more likely our top players are to move on.

We need a large amount of quality to be injected into the squad, and based on past transfer windows that isn't likely to happen at the rate needed to get us back to the top of the league. Based on the boards actions and our current players, I haven't seen anything that is likely to change our fortunes. We are likely to float between mid table and fourth place for a while now unless directions at the board level change.

 

[Sky1981]

These kinds of thread never fail to amuses me

 

[The Boy]

We've all written off this season now, right? Let's look to the rebuild process and focus on what's needed to complete the job. If they'd all left in the summer, not many would have been missed. But I would say that, when all are fit, we have a decent enough core at a good age to build upon.

We have a core of players now who are, imho, good enough to get us back to the top 4 with the right players around them:
DeGea
Wan-Bissaka
Maguire
Mctominay
Pogba
Rashford
Martial

We have a small group of players who are perfectly good enough to be squad/rotation players next season:
Romero
Shaw
Lindelof
James

We have some that can be retained as decent backup players or sold without really losing anything:
Jones
Rojo
Bailly
Dalot
Fred
Lingard
Pereira

That leaves some older players who have to leave next summer, so shouldn't play unless there's no one else available:
Young
Matic
Mata


So, that's 7 first teamers I'd be content with starting next season. As it stands then we need a LB, CB, CM and RW with another CM and CF to upgrade our cover/competition. That's 6 players needed.

Though of course there's a large group of young players that I haven't mentioned yet. While I understand the calls for Greenwood to start, I haven't personally seen enough yet to think he's going to be first team regular within 2 years. Garner, Gomes and Chong even less. Williams has looked really good but I want to see him get a good run of games. He and Shaw together might be enough to not need a LB.
Tuanzebe looks to me to be closest to PL starter level and, as it stands, I think he will show enough this season, that we can delay a CB signing.

The kids will continue to get chances this season through necessity. It's up to them to prove that we don't need some of those positions to be filled. If Axel and Williams are up to the job, then adding 2 CMs, RW and a CF would make us competitive again, if we can get those signings right. That doesn't seem so far off to me.

Could any of the other kids cement a place? Would bringing in a new manager now simply reset things all over again?

I don't post an awful lot in the united section. It's a busy place with a lot of noise.. and I'm kinda old
But I do read and totally understand everyones frustrations with our current level, there will certainly be ups and downs this year, possibly the worst we've seen since Ferguson left. But let's leave the blame game for other threads and try to find the positive way forward. Whether our future is with Ole, in some ways doesn't matter. I can now see how our squad can be functional, if not yet exceptional, within a year or so and a realistic number of signings. When in recent times, we had far more problems than solutions. Now at least, we have a fairly solid base from which to build.

Great OP just a shame the thread is hijacked into the millionth sack Ole/everything is shit discussion in the first few posts.

I genuinely think watching from the outside that things are not nearly as bad as many make out.

Ole does have a brand of football, but I'm not sure his 4231 is the best set up for this
People complain about the transfer window, but your defence is much better, James looks a great prospect and Lukaku had to go for the good of the team unit
You've been hit by injuries to key player ie Martial and Pogba, young players like Rashford struggle under the pressure
Your position is worse than your team, yes this will be an up and down season, but as the OP says the basis for a good team is there

 

[ash_86]

The main difference between that Liverpool and us right now is that we have the economic power to do it.

That our board is full of incompetence is another thing, but winning trophies is totally achievable and I dont think we should settle for anything less.

But lets just agree to disagree, what’s enough for you it’s clearly not enough for me.

Winning an odd trophy like league cup is certainly possible right now but that doesn't mean we'll challenge for the league. Klopp who is a good manager needed 4 years to get the team to mount a title challenge. Lot of things has to fall in place like good Manager , board , signings ect.. It's not about whats enough for me and what's for you. It's about what's realistic for currently where we are placed. No one disagrees title is what all we want ultimately but getting there will happen only with consistently finishing in top 4.

 

[Sky1981]

I think the op is really @Flying high

 

[Sky1981]

Im with you on the positivity front pal. I think you're pretty spot on with the 7 you picked, assuming that all can play to their potential which unfortunately isn't a given. Ideally, we sign players that bring the best out of those respective players, and I do think the squad needs a very vocal leader who won't accept anything less than 100% effort at all times. I don't know if that player is in the squad right now, so we will perhaps have to sign someone to meet that requirement, or perhaps Maguire takes on that mantle after his first season and earns the respect of his team-mates.

What's encouraging about the players you mention is they come from all the areas of the park, so we do have that going for us in terms of a world class goalkeeper, and talented defenders/mids/attackers. The squad probably doesn't need a complete overhaul and realistically that can't happen anyway, so it maybe makes the most sense to identify transfer targets that can bring out the best in the squad regulars, as well as bringing something different to the table.

That being said, I would be very surprised if we didn't have two of our young players go on to have fairly successful careers at Old Trafford, with Greenwood and Garner the most promising (although Williams and Tuanzebe can lay claim to being better performers so far) so when you consider that they could end up realizing their potential, your 7 players could be boosted entirely by our own academy so the starting xi looks like

De Gea
Wan Bissaka
Tuanzebe
Maguire
Williams

Garner
Mctominay
Pogba

Greenwood
Martial
Rashford

I would probably be in a minority, But right now i would settle for that starting XI to begin out 20/21 season and let them have an extended run just to see if it could potentially lead to something great. Right now, the average age of that team is 22. There would be so much more joy to take from watching that group grow together and win together and I don't think its beyond the realms of possibility that it can compete in the premier league and in Europe, assuming everyone realizes their potential. I think sometimes we have to remind ourselves that being signed by Manchester United is a pretty big deal for a young player, and as such it's natural that our academy will produce some incredible talent every now and then. Right now that squad is on course to be boosted by the likes of Hannibal Mejbri too, and to me it's just more satisfying as a fan to know that we could put some trust in a group of pre-dominantly academy players and maybe, just maybe it could stick. I don't measure my happiness in life off of the trophies Man Utd win, but I do get a lot of enjoyment still when the team plays well. We have an exciting core group and exceptional talent coming through, and i'd rather see us merge it all together than throw money around. It would just be worth more. And if you prefer Saudi Ownership to that scenario, then frankly you've lost sight of what it means to truly support a football team.

Being young and growing together is sweet idea, but only if they're actually that good.

Hands to heart honestly how many of our youth actually plays based on merit? Not out of emergency and not out of some united value quota. Who among them really deserves their spot, and who among them could really command a spot in the top 4 (the area of battle we aimed to be) without nepotism and favoritism?

 

[stepic]

One of our worst starts in PL history and yet we’re seeing the basis of a proper squad? Pass me that spliff mate.

 

[Zlatattack]

The team has always been there or there abouts, regularly hamstrung in key areas.

For years now we've had dodgy centre back pairings, then our fullbacks were inadequate (particularly RB). We've not had a capable RW since Nani left and our midfield was always void of creativity bar Pogba.

We've addressed RB, and CB (nearly there), but we lost our best striker and lost our competent CMs (Herrera and Fellaini... competency is relative). RW is still missing.

It's just daft how they fail to address the basic needs of the team. I like Dan James but he isn't what we needed. I was excited about Mikhitaryan but we played him out wide a lot. We've also been unlucky with a few (Depay, Schneiderlin).

 

[lysglimt]

Being young and growing together is sweet idea, but only if they're actually that good.

Hands to heart honestly how many of our youth actually plays based on merit? Not out of emergency and not out of some united value quota. Who among them really deserves their spot, and who among them could really command a spot in the top 4 (the area of battle we aimed to be) without nepotism and favoritism?

Actually most of them. Our problem isn't our young players - our problem is that we basically don't have any players in the agegroup 25-32 who are good enough. Our squad is unbalanced in terms of age. We have DDG, Pogba, Maguire - and that is about it. Liverpool and City have basically all their best players in the mid-20s to early 30s - we have 3 in total.

Our poor transfers in the last close to 10 years (including the last few years of Fergusons reign) - has left us in this situation. No we have manager who needs to try to fix Everything - while being insulted by some of our fans for being incompetent and stupid

 

[Nickelodeon]

Actually most of them. Our problem isn't our young players - our problem is that we basically don't have any players in the agegroup 25-32 who are good enough. Our squad is unbalanced in terms of age. We have DDG, Pogba, Maguire - and that is about it. Liverpool and City have basically all their best players in the mid-20s to early 30s - we have 3 in total.

Our poor transfers in the last close to 10 years (including the last few years of Fergusons reign) - has left us in this situation. No we have manager who needs to try to fix Everything - while being insulted by some of our fans for being incompetent and stupid

Just because everything else is a problem doesn't mean that the manager isn't one. Getting outplayed by Newcastle, West Ham, Bournemouth, Palace would've been a shocker for any major club bar ours. No amount of blame on the squad, Woodward etc. can provide a valid excuse for this.

Once we score one, our team automatically sits back and waits for the opposition to equalize (Southampton, Wolves, Arsenal, Liverpool) and once we concede we never look like scoring even if it is in the first half of the game. I can't remember a single equalizer we've scored this season.

If people choose to believe that even that is not down to the manager, then I think we deserve to be where we are.

As per the OP, I'm firmly of the opinion that our squad is worse than when Ole took over. Addition of AWB, Maguire and James should've added much more weight to our squad but the departures have really crippled us. Letting Herrera, Lukaku, Sanchez and Fellaini leave without replacement is inexcusable. Barring Herrera, I was fine with all these players being sold and replaced. Had we known that they wouldn't be replaced, everyone of us would rather have them in the squad to give us some strength at least on paper.

 

[Zed 101]

I know it is not possible, and I do not know who I would say are their modern counterparts but stick ONE of Scholes, Cantona, Beckham or Giggs (in their pomp) in the current first team and the difference would be immense, we lack real quality in lots of attacking areas, and just one a player of their ilk would be so transformative.

 

[pacifictheme]

feck me, Ole is not currently the problem. The problem is a lack of creative flare players that can break down teams before it hits the forward line when they sit deep. Its the reason we are so much better and more organised against better teams because the game opens up. You cannot turn average players into those types of players and he has the likes of Mata and Lingard to pick from in that role.

If Ole had a skillful number 10 and Pogba wasn't injured, we would look a whole lot better against lesser teams as well.

Of couese he is.

 

[DBeckham77]

We don’t have right winger for years now, it’s unbelievable how a club like Manchester United doesn’t have right winger, I feel that it’s our biggest problem going forward. We always attack from LW and through the middle it’s makes as predictable and easy to defend against.

I hope we will se a right winger again in our life time on earth.

 

[MrBest]

How are James, McTominay, Tuanzabe, AWB and Williams rated more than Pogba, Martial, Rashford and Maguire? not trying to be pessimist or anything but in a couple of years we could look back and see that anyone from those are not even playing at top level. Except for AWB who is the consolidated one.

I never said they are rated better, do not refer to the order. I said they have better work rate and output. For me it feels more consistent. Pogba has the potential to be the best in the world but sometimes he lets himself down. He needs someone next to him to take away the burden and only then we will see the real him. Bruno Fernandes would of really helped him.

 

[arthurka]

So 2 new midfielders and 2 new forwards should help that, or do you think we need more?

Yes I feel we will need a LB in there as well.
Shaw isn´t anywhere good enough or reliable enough, we also lack depth in from the bench.

 

[Bestietom]

We've all written off this season now, right? Let's look to the rebuild process and focus on what's needed to complete the job. If they'd all left in the summer, not many would have been missed. But I would say that, when all are fit, we have a decent enough core at a good age to build upon.

We have a core of players now who are, imho, good enough to get us back to the top 4 with the right players around them:
DeGea
Wan-Bissaka
Maguire
Mctominay
Pogba
Rashford
Martial

We have a small group of players who are perfectly good enough to be squad/rotation players next season:
Romero
Shaw
Lindelof
James

We have some that can be retained as decent backup players or sold without really losing anything:
Jones
Rojo
Bailly
Dalot
Fred
Lingard
Pereira

That leaves some older players who have to leave next summer, so shouldn't play unless there's no one else available:
Young
Matic
Mata


So, that's 7 first teamers I'd be content with starting next season. As it stands then we need a LB, CB, CM and RW with another CM and CF to upgrade our cover/competition. That's 6 players needed.

Though of course there's a large group of young players that I haven't mentioned yet. While I understand the calls for Greenwood to start, I haven't personally seen enough yet to think he's going to be first team regular within 2 years. Garner, Gomes and Chong even less. Williams has looked really good but I want to see him get a good run of games. He and Shaw together might be enough to not need a LB.
Tuanzebe looks to me to be closest to PL starter level and, as it stands, I think he will show enough this season, that we can delay a CB signing.

The kids will continue to get chances this season through necessity. It's up to them to prove that we don't need some of those positions to be filled. If Axel and Williams are up to the job, then adding 2 CMs, RW and a CF would make us competitive again, if we can get those signings right. That doesn't seem so far off to me.

Could any of the other kids cement a place? Would bringing in a new manager now simply reset things all over again?

I don't post an awful lot in the united section. It's a busy place with a lot of noise.. and I'm kinda old
But I do read and totally understand everyones frustrations with our current level, there will certainly be ups and downs this year, possibly the worst we've seen since Ferguson left. But let's leave the blame game for other threads and try to find the positive way forward. Whether our future is with Ole, in some ways doesn't matter. I can now see how our squad can be functional, if not yet exceptional, within a year or so and a realistic number of signings. When in recent times, we had far more problems than solutions. Now at least, we have a fairly solid base from which to build.

I agree, If whoever the manager may be. He needs backing and 6 players ( right ones) is what is needed to get us back challenging again.

 

[Nikelesh Reddy]

I've not written this season off if we replace Ole soon.

This.Forget the squad,this manager is simply not good enough for us...

 

[FrankDrebin]

This.Forget the squad,this manager is simply not good enough for us...

Nor are his coaching staff its seems.

 

[Water Melon]

This.Forget the squad,this manager is simply not good enough for us...

Agreed

Nor are his coaching staff its seems.

Seconded.

This is not FIFA. It is not just about players. Modern game is a lot more about coaching, collective team play and tactics. Ole and his coaching team are nowhere near the United's level. This is exactly why we are where we are.

 

[Bobcat]

@Flying high

Good write up, but i think the jury is still out on McTomminay, Rashford and Martial. All have potential for sure, but especially the latter two needs to show a lot more consistency before we can call them core players

 

[ivaldo]

feck me, Ole is not currently the problem. The problem is a lack of creative flare players that can break down teams before it hits the forward line when they sit deep. Its the reason we are so much better and more organised against better teams because the game opens up. You cannot turn average players into those types of players and he has the likes of Mata and Lingard to pick from in that role.

If Ole had a skillful number 10 and Pogba wasn't injured, we would look a whole lot better against lesser teams as well.

Exactly this. I’ve been banging this drum for some time. Adding some creativity to this team will sort so many issues.

 

[shamans]

feck me, Ole is not currently the problem. The problem is a lack of creative flare players that can break down teams before it hits the forward line when they sit deep. Its the reason we are so much better and more organised against better teams because the game opens up. You cannot turn average players into those types of players and he has the likes of Mata and Lingard to pick from in that role.

If Ole had a skillful number 10 and Pogba wasn't injured, we would look a whole lot better against lesser teams as well.

You dont understand tactics if you dont think ole is the problem.

 

[DFreshKing]

Good thread. I think we need four 1st eleven players of top quality. An out and out Striker (I think Haaland would be perfect) Two defensive midfielders and and an attacking midfielder who can play the clever pass in behind, drop the shoulder and help with a decent number of goals. This is if we plan to play with wide forwards not wingers. Martial, Rashford, James and Greenwood fighting for those roles.

 

[adnando]

Don't really understand who would take over for Ole with the same longevity in mind. Ole is the first manager we have after Sir Alex that puts the long term vision of the club ahead of short term personal success. I'm not sure that Ole is the man to push us into another successful era, but he is what we need to reshape our squad. Even though we should be much better off with the current squad we are not ready to compete on the highest level, and we would be better off with an experienced when the squad is up for the challenge.

We are in this place because of the lack of long term planning. Look at the transfer window we just had and compare that with all the windows that Moyes, LvG, and Mou had and look at the players bought. Quality over quantity.
I'll much rather see us buying 3-4 first XI players/with high potential each summer window, and perhaps 1-2 players in January than trying to sign over the top household names as we have done for a couple of seasons.

 

[Craig Ward]

Again, there's not one single problem. Stop coming talking as though we only have one problem at the club. There are many, and Ole is one of the major ones.

Getting rid of him is part of the way towards recovery.

Disagree completely.

What has changing managers achieved for us post SAF? All changing managers does is create more problems.
> Changing backroom staff
> Different managers = different recruitment strategy
> Each new manager gets a massive budget / blows it / fails / repeat

Can you see that consistency is a MASSIVE factor into moving us forward?

I'd flip your statement and say that KEEPING Ole is a major factor for our "recovery"

I agree, there are multiple problems at the club, from ownership, to budget, to player power, lack of DOF and more.

Ole is the only manager I've understood since Fergie. He is relatable and has a plan and has done more good in 1 window than Moyes/LVG/Jose put together.

Are we light in some areas right now? Yes
Is that Ole's fault? No
Have we been lacking quality throughout the squad for YEARS? Yes

Ole has shown himself to be capable of letting players go, something no other manager has done. Is there more work to be done in the squad? Absolutely, but Ole could never transform this squad with 1 window. He needs 3 or 4.

This Ole out bandwagon is very narrow minded

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

Strongly disagree.

A good few players hailed as first-team regulars for us are no more than adequate squad options - Lindelöf, Shaw, McTominay, Fred, Pereira, James are all pretty much first team mainstays when fit. None of them are good enough to be first teamers at any other big club.

If we upgraded on all of those players and they were on our bench, THAT would be what you call a proper squad.

So no, I don't think we're seeing the basis of anything but ongoing mediocrity.

 

[AltiUn]

It's nice in theory but there's no chance Pogba's here beyond the summer and he's our best player by a mile, we've no chance of replacing him either. For the first time in a while there's more than 2/3 good players but after that our squad quality sort of falls off a cliff. When they're on their game Rashford and Martial look brilliant but they can often look lost, they aren't consistent enough yet to be relied on.

 

[Dante]

We always had the squad for a top 4 finish. Mourinho finished 2nd a short while back. Lvg got 4th before him. Let's not pretend it's now starting to come together for us. We always had some very good players and we now have some very good players. A short while back people felt the midfield was sorted when we had Matic (in form), Herrera and Pogba. And the attack had Rashford, Martial and Lukaku and we started the season on fire, with Sanchez being added to the team at the time.

Also, we really need to give players some time to perform before we feel they're part of a strong 'core'. Mctominay is still a kid and has lots to prove. Maguire has just arrived. AWB has to show some qualities going forward.

Good post, and I agree in priniciple.

However, where we're doing better is that I think we've finally got a manager with a philosophy that will be a help rather than a hindrance in the medium/long term. The players bought and sold point toward a pacy, high press, defensively secure, fluid team.

Under LvG, the players we bought were for a style of play that was ill-suited to the high press nature of the current PL.

Under Mourinho, the players we bought were for a static style of play was simply not conducive to being able to challenge Liverpool/City.

Yes, Ole has got the squad to a similar level. But I'm far happier with the profile of the players currently at the club.

 

[Ekeke]

Same old. I remember Neville at the end of last season saying he isnt particularly attached to any of the current team and wouldnt be against a complete overhaul.

At the time I would have been against it. I did have a couple of players who's hard work and determination to get us points I did have an affinity for. But now they're gone, so at this point I guess im in that same situation and would be fine with an all new team and squad.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

feck me, Ole is not currently the problem. The problem is a lack of creative flare players that can break down teams before it hits the forward line when they sit deep. Its the reason we are so much better and more organised against better teams because the game opens up. You cannot turn average players into those types of players and he has the likes of Mata and Lingard to pick from in that role.

If Ole had a skillful number 10 and Pogba wasn't injured, we would look a whole lot better against lesser teams as well.

Yes, he is. We don't only have one problem mate.

Ole is not the only problem, but he is still a problem.

Mark my words, Manchester United are going nowhere under Ole. If you're happy being an inconsistent midtable side, enjoy, because that's all your getting under Ole.

 

[Bestietom]

You dont understand tactics if you dont think ole is the problem.

You can't point the finger at Ole alone

Disagree completely.

What has changing managers achieved for us post SAF? All changing managers does is create more problems.
> Changing backroom staff
> Different managers = different recruitment strategy
> Each new manager gets a massive budget / blows it / fails / repeat

Can you see that consistency is a MASSIVE factor into moving us forward?

I'd flip your statement and say that KEEPING Ole is a major factor for our "recovery"

I agree, there are multiple problems at the club, from ownership, to budget, to player power, lack of DOF and more.

Ole is the only manager I've understood since Fergie. He is relatable and has a plan and has done more good in 1 window than Moyes/LVG/Jose put together.

Are we light in some areas right now? Yes
Is that Ole's fault? No
Have we been lacking quality throughout the squad for YEARS? Yes

Ole has shown himself to be capable of letting players go, something no other manager has done. Is there more work to be done in the squad? Absolutely, but Ole could never transform this squad with 1 window. He needs 3 or 4.

This Ole out bandwagon is very narrow minded

Well said. Some people on here think changing the manager when a few results go wrong is the answer. Every year we lost the Premiership, fans shouted for Fergies head. Ridiculous.

 

[lysglimt]

The whole squad pretty much needs purging save for a few. Out of the entire first team squad the only players worth keeping are:

De Gea
Maguire
Wan-Bissaka
Tuanzebe
Pogba
James
Rashford

So 7 players. And even of those seven, I would sell De Gea and Pogba as I don't think there is any point in having these top players (on their day) while the rest of the team is barely Championship standard. So I'll put that down to five players.

The rest need to be sold, terminated, sacked, whatever.

Lindelöf - A defender who cannot seem to do any basic defending. Can't head the ball. Poor positioning. Invites disaster. I can't even see any potential in him as a squad player and consider him worse than Jones.

Jones - Too old, not good enough... too depressed to continue

Smalling - Not of required standard

Rojo - Has never been good enough. Has always reminded me of some sort of conman who managed to somehow stumble into the team, like there's no history of it, and you can't explain how or why.

A. Young - Although he always tries his best, his best is very poor in every position and he has overstayed his time at this club by about five or six years.

Dalot - like Lindelöf, although not quite as bad... I just can't see him making the grade.

Shaw - perennially injured, overweight, just generally unfit and another in a long list of players who haven't lived up to the hype

Mata - it's not even really Mata any more. I feel like he has escaped and his ghost is still on the pitch. Legs gone.

Lingard - the less said about Lingard, the better.

Pereira - like Rojo, semi-professional, doesn't fit here, less than average ability

Fred - we need to trick Fred into terminating his own contract. Tell him he's getting a wage rise (he'll believe it) and make him sign the papers

Matić - like Mata, a complete liability. No longer interested in performing and couldn't even if he wanted to

McTominay - while he has shown some improvement over the last couple of months, he is simply not good enough and never will be. I personally would try to get him out as soon as we can but we might have to keep him for a bit longer considering we already need to replace 80% of the squad and he's not one of the foremost problems.

Martial - another one who is permanently injured. Seems to have lost all confidence. Probably better to get shut while we can still get anything for him.

You can complain about a lot of our players - but McTominay ? Seriously ? A midfielder who can defend, scores goals, good passer of the ball, strong tackler and good in the air. Give me a break. Even the most negative pundits are starting to realize he is a quality player