If this general election results in a government not being able to take a decision one way or another for Brexit, it would be a complete waste of time. I hope that whoever is voted in will be able to make a final decision if you're staying or you're leaving. The current confusion is creating more harm than a decision either way would and it's affecting the whole of Europe.
Westminster Politics
- Thread starter altodevil
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What's the objection with having ID cards to prove who you are, unless you've got something to hide. Sorry don't get your point.
ID isn’t free in Britain, Paul.
It's a zero sum game though.
The number of people who actually commit election fraud is tiny compared to the amount of people who would be disenfranchised by an ID requirement.
2017 statistics:
Now compare that to the estimated 3.5 million people in the UK who don't have photo IDs.
Despite what people might suggest, an Election has the singular objective of providing a figure which accurately represents the wishes of the nation. Not "who also have a photo ID" or "who might also be close to their voting station during University term time". So in terms of pure quality of data, you get a much better results with the very low risk of voter fraud than you do with the very high risk of voter suppression. Especially when you consider that voter fraud is a risk to all parties indiscriminate of their demographics whereas methods of voter suppression are inherently discriminate against certain groups (usually poor/students/immigrants) and as such are a much greater risk to the integrity of an election as it's likely to skew the results considerably.
But it could be free if the UK had the same system as France. Id cards are also used as cheque guarantees and for travel purposes between EU countries.
Free ID cards aren't free, they're government funded. Willing to commit to that kind of spending to back up this policy of requiring ID?
We also tried ID cards in the country. Take up was so great they scrapped it, know why? Because you had to pay for them.
Didn't know you were into Mao. But yes I'm completely owned, as I'm not a refugee from Libya. Aren't you a retired business owner who has put thousands of pounds in the Labour Party ?(You've done far more for socialism than I ever have, cheers)We really aren't the same at all.
Back on topic, there is no evidence of illegal voting in the UK, this is simply a tool to stop poor working class people from voting. Really is as simply as that.
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Who had to pay for them? Taxpayers, if you're poor they wouldn't be paying tax would they?
Hummm I'm about 30 years off retirement
Didn't know you were into Mao. But yes I'm completely owned, as I'm not a refugee from Libya. Aren't you a retired business owner who has put thousands of pounds in the Labour Party ?(You've done far more for socialism than I ever have, cheers)We really aren't the same at all.
And over 100k over the years
As for Mao I've lived and had some of my education in China so unsurprisingly I have some familiarity with Mao .... My wife is Chinese as well and certainly there are many of my in-laws who have first hand knowledge of the Mao years ...
I've lived and worked in a numbe of developing countries.... Indeed developing those countries in actually a key part of my job.... So I suspect I've seen poverty at levels that are quite impactful .... But certainly I like to look at things on a world wide basis and if you earn over £11000 then hey your in the top 10% of world earners so perhaps be don't so high and mighty throwing round being rich as an insult... Or at least without realising your insulting yourself
All those countries have a national identity card and so requiring one for voting doesn't exclude anyone from the process.
I actually quite like the idea of compsory voting, however I don't see how a Web based system could ever be secured against fraud.
Mate you've given over 100k to the Labour Party, again cheers but your loaded(This isn't a insult but just a fact,). Also I wasn't trying to be all 'mighty' but stating that your view on this policy would be different if you felt the effects. No amount of I've seen 'real poverty' is going to get you out of this.
Really how is this policy not voter suppression, aimed at stopping poor working class people from voting ?
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Voter ID sounds fine in principle but literally all the evidence shows it'd just be a policy to boost the Tory vote because lots of people ultimately don't have photo ID.
So where is the funding coming from? Added taxes? Reducing existing budgets?
Utterly pointless policy designed to do one thing and one thing only.
If it was from tax then the poor wouldn't be paying for it if they are not paying tax.
I know people in Britain don't pay much tax and don't like paying tax and then complain about the poor services.
Ahhh. So you're a bad faith actor. Didn't realise, sorry. Carry on.
Well it's designed to do multiple things really. It's a divisive issue that's there to further drive a wedge through the British public, scaremonger about cheats, and motivate their older base that want to continue shutting the doors behind them.
What are you talking about?
The great irony of this stupid policy is that it seems to impact Leave voters above anyone else, which seems a slightly odd thing for a government interested in hoovering up the Leave vote to do.
No point talking about top 10% of World earners when the conversational context is the UK voting system. Talk UK demographics for actual context.
I think Tory turnout would still be strong from what I recall, which is what they're hoping for.
I could be a cauliflower but I'm not.
Point is, it is not free now in the UK and could disenfranchise 3.5 million voters, in order to prevent the 8 cases of electoral ID fraud. Don't those numbers seem strange to you? Seems like there might be an ulterior motive?
It doesn't exist at all in the UK. If it came into use it should be free.
But being free people still seem to object to it whereas it's not even an issue in many countries.
It would impact traditional Labour and Con votes about the same, but really hit Leave voters, you can see the other two graphs in this thread:
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Because voter fraud just isn't occurring on a scale enough to warrant some bullshit bureaucratic program that's actually a sneaky way to suppress the vote.
Yes I see the objections there, what I don't see is why people still object to ID cards if they were free.
Which leads to another point is how do people in the UK prove who they are (if they don't have a driving licence or a passport)?
For voting? We don't it's just name and address. For general identity verification for investments etc it's a bit of a pain in general as you're looking at a couple of documents from marriage or birth certificates, HMRC or DWP correspondence, council tax etc.
Personally I've always been for national identity cards as it's a stupid situation and the government are going in that direction online anyway. Mainly the Tories are to blame for causing an outrage over Gordon Browns proposals.
In France they are not compulsory but everyone seems to have them as they make life much easier and also are valid for 15 years. There aren't that many countries left in the world where ID cards are not either compulsory or voluntary.
Those proposed by Gordon Brown had a cost if I remember.
Yeah it did but it wasn't massive and i think they had a scheme for lower paid to get it free.
The big issue was around the database as the papers and various groups spun it into a big surveillance state issue and privacy concerns "oh no a centralised database". Of course now in retrospect all their claims seem absurd but the fuss around it at the time was a bit brexit campaign like. Clegg made it a big issue for the Lib dems.
Polls now suggest a majority for I'd cards as well
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politic...2/majority-brits-support-introducing-id-cards
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Is the evidence for that behind the paywall in the article or somewhere else, I'd have though Labour would have been hit far harder than the Tories with the Lib Dems suffering least.
Older people are more likely and generally more determined to vote, though, are they not? If they don't currently have voting ID I'd wager they're perhaps more likely to try and obtain it, compared to younger voters who broadly vote Labour/anti-Tory but won't go out there way to seek ID and who tend to be more unreliable in regards to turnout.
I'm pretty sure the objections on here come because there's nothing in the proposed plans to suggest this mythical free British ID that you say we're going to get.
ID cards as a requirement for voting are quite obviously a bad idea.
Some are but not all but I didn't say you would get a free ID but you should get a free ID card.
I don't see there would be anything unreasonable about asking people to bring their voting card with them, or some proof of address.
When you go to vote, they ask you your address and only ask your name if there is more than 1 voter at the address.
You can easily say an address you saw on the way to the polling station. There should be some sort of confirmation.
Are homeless people not eligible to vote?
When you go to vote, they ask you your address and only ask your name if there is more than 1 voter at the address.
You can easily say an address you saw on the way to the polling station. There should be some sort of confirmation.
Are homeless people not eligible to vote?
She states
Quite the opposite actually.
Voter Id makes no sense to me. However an all-purpose National Id makes complete sense and I’m always bemused that the UK doesn’t have one. Drivers licenses are supposed to be for drivers and passports are for international travel. Both non-essential documents that come with a cost.
I grew up in Greece and you get a National ID from the age of 12, which is used as a form of identification for voting, opening bank accounts, applying for National Insurance number or Passport, Police identification etc. etc. You turn up at certain types of police station with your parents when you turn 12, having 2 photos in hand, and you get one on the spot. No cost in it, apart from the cost of the pictures from the photo booth.
I grew up in Greece and you get a National ID from the age of 12, which is used as a form of identification for voting, opening bank accounts, applying for National Insurance number or Passport, Police identification etc. etc. You turn up at certain types of police station with your parents when you turn 12, having 2 photos in hand, and you get one on the spot. No cost in it, apart from the cost of the pictures from the photo booth.