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Westminster Politics
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had the game of their lives right there.They sent someone who broke the lockdown rules to defend someone who broke the lockdown rules.
Money's money. They're already fast tracking my "Organ Selling" policy. All donators get 20% of the profits when we sell them - 5% if they struggle. Pretty sure people don't need both of their hearts, but I'm not much of a scientist so I never really bothered with the technical stuff when writing the proposal.
They're so dim that they'd probably give you a multi-million-pound contract for that work. I wish I was joking.Guardian reader's comment:
'Might I make a suggestion about the "eye-test" thing?
I think Cummings knew perfectly well that the excuse would not fly. And I think it was deliberate.
For years, I've been working in and with China, and dealing with the Chinese government. Understanding Chinese government propaganda has always been a key part of that.
This isn't something they do so much any more, but in the 80s and 90s, the Chinese government would lie in a way that was easily spotted and easily caught out. This was deliberate. It was aimed at two things:
First, it can expose disloyal people. People who are not loyal supporters of the status quo may say they don't believe it.
Second, and more importantly, given that people in 80s and 90s China knew it wasn't a great idea to challenge the government, it is a power play. The government is saying, "I am telling you what is true. You might know that it is not true. You might see and hear the opposite. You might know the opposite. This does not matter. We define what is true, not you. We are so powerful that we can say whatever we want, and it becomes the truth."
It's something that I've suspected is part of the White House's strategy for a while.
I think this is why Cummings came up with such transparent nonsense about testing his eyes. In fact, I think it's a significant part of the whole press conference. What he said in the press conference was, essentially, "Hey, media and populace. I do not give a f--- what you think. I am in control, and I'm now going to lie, and you have to accept it. This is my country, and these are my truths."
It was a bit of a gamble in the current environment. It will be interesting to see whether it works out for him. I hope it doesn't. But if he stays in power through this, historians in other countries will look back on this moment and see it as a major step in Cummings taking control. (Historians in Britain will, of course, say whatever Cummings tells them to say, or they will be shot.)
This move will either destroy him or immeasurably strengthen him. I'm hoping for the former, but I fear the latter.'
'Might I make a suggestion about the "eye-test" thing?
I think Cummings knew perfectly well that the excuse would not fly. And I think it was deliberate.
For years, I've been working in and with China, and dealing with the Chinese government. Understanding Chinese government propaganda has always been a key part of that.
This isn't something they do so much any more, but in the 80s and 90s, the Chinese government would lie in a way that was easily spotted and easily caught out. This was deliberate. It was aimed at two things:
First, it can expose disloyal people. People who are not loyal supporters of the status quo may say they don't believe it.
Second, and more importantly, given that people in 80s and 90s China knew it wasn't a great idea to challenge the government, it is a power play. The government is saying, "I am telling you what is true. You might know that it is not true. You might see and hear the opposite. You might know the opposite. This does not matter. We define what is true, not you. We are so powerful that we can say whatever we want, and it becomes the truth."
It's something that I've suspected is part of the White House's strategy for a while.
I think this is why Cummings came up with such transparent nonsense about testing his eyes. In fact, I think it's a significant part of the whole press conference. What he said in the press conference was, essentially, "Hey, media and populace. I do not give a f--- what you think. I am in control, and I'm now going to lie, and you have to accept it. This is my country, and these are my truths."
It was a bit of a gamble in the current environment. It will be interesting to see whether it works out for him. I hope it doesn't. But if he stays in power through this, historians in other countries will look back on this moment and see it as a major step in Cummings taking control. (Historians in Britain will, of course, say whatever Cummings tells them to say, or they will be shot.)
This move will either destroy him or immeasurably strengthen him. I'm hoping for the former, but I fear the latter.'
Is this post satire? I can’t tell if I’m supposed to take it seriously.
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...eek-childcare-like-cummings-did-says-minister
I see. I suspect how much of the outrage from this is sustained will be dependant upon what Durham police find.
It is unfortunately the only way to rule, that is if you want to get things done.
The Chinese in particular have proved this time and time again. We may not have a dictatorship system of power but when you give a government, any government, a stonking majority of 80 seats, it can and will do pretty much what it wants, unless there is a 'palace coup' which some Tories have attempted on this issue.
Starmer is very wise to take a back seat on this, he knows his party and its former leadership have a lot to answer for in giving the present government its massive majority, for driving millions of loyal Labour voters into the arms of Boris. Dominic Cummings is hated by many Tories and they will use this sort of thing to undermine him. The only problem for these modern day 'wets' is that Boris showed over Brexit that he takes no prisoners, even with his own side and it would not be surprising in the coming weeks and months if he starts to chop the legs from under those who he (and Dominic) perceive as disloyal.
Feck me they're now out changing actual laws meant to keep us all safe and kids safe from abuse on the fly to defend a buddy.
I've no knowledge of how non-UK governments conduct their business so, if there's something glaringly wrong with that reader's comment, please tell me.
Well the Chinese government part I have no clue about but my instinct is it sounds more like a nice story to tell to fit with their subsequent claim rather than it actually having been a systematic aspect of Chinese propaganda as they imply - happy to be corrected on this though if that indeed was the case.I've no knowledge of how non-UK governments conduct their business so, if there's something glaringly wrong with that reader's comment, please tell me.
As for the latter part about it all being a calculated power grab by Cummings after which dissenting historians will be shot...as I said, are we supposed to take that seriously?
Christ, I must've missed that part.
Probably not...but it is accepted usually, that its the winners who write the history, is it not!
Dominic Cummings set to leave post in 21 days
Sporting Index traders reveal under fire Chief Adviser will eventually step down after lockdown scandal
Sporting Index traders reveal under fire Chief Adviser will eventually step down after lockdown scandal
Wednesday 27th May 2020 – Under fire Chief Adviser Dominic Cummings will resign in three weeks, according to betting firm Sporting Index.
The political strategist continues to face calls from MPs and the British public to step down from his role after reportedly breaking lockdown rules, and the political experts at Sporting Index predict he will be gone in 21 days.
Senior cabinet ministers and Prime Minister Boris Johnson have defended his actions in a bid to keep him in his position, but the political experts think Cummings will be gone in the middle of June.
The traders at Sporting Index have also analysed the situation and expect four ministers to resign as part of the ongoing Cummings saga.
Phill Fairclough, trading spokesperson at Sporting Index, said: “It’s not been a good week for Dominic Cummings and Boris Johnson, and it doesn’t look like it’ll get any easier for the Chief Adviser as calls for his resignation continue to mount.
“There’s only so much defending that can be done, and we think that things will eventually come to an end with Cummings stepping down from his post in the next three weeks, but not before four ministerial resignations come first.”
Sporting Index - politics
| Days until Dominic Cummings resigns | 21 |
| Number of Ministers to resign due to Cummings saga | 4 |
** ENDS **
Why have they chosen such a relatively distant date?
Isn't July the 1st the last chance for the UK to extend the transition period for brexit?
I'd imagine stupid Boris and his boss will want to continue until that date at least.
I'd imagine stupid Boris and his boss will want to continue until that date at least.
I wonder if, the next time Whitty or Vallance are at a daily briefing, they will be asked if they support Cummings decisions.
No idea, 21 days seems fairly random, especially given you'd expect pressure to fade rather than build, on balance.
normally the questions go to the minister and then they call on an expert if they want them to answer the question
even if somebody did ask them direct I suspect they would say they are not political experts and the minister would simply call somebody else for a question
I'd be surprised if we see them there until this blows over.
As with Trump, health experts are only welcomed at briefings if they're 'onside'.
I thought Cummings was the Political expert??
What odds are being quoted?
DC could make a killing here... fill your boots!
Just a thought Dom, wonder if you have considered buying any shares in any local Barnard Castle enterprises, you've certainly put them on the tourist map! "Every cloud etc..."
It's certainly a feature of totalitarianism and from the books I've read on Mao and the Nazis it is very much one aspect they practiced. I've not read it in ages but the Origins of Totalitarianism would be a much more uncomfortable read these days. An obvious lie isn't meant to instil a false truth it's meant as an act of domination to stamp where the power is and erode peoples integrity because by repeating such lies it makes them complicit and binded to them.
Senior cabinet members were out in force demeaning themselves repeating Doms lie because of the power he has over them. As were all the hard right journalists and Tory bots. I don't think Dom expected that lie to work but he expected Leave voters to sing to his tune which is a win. The fact he got them to deny the initial claim and then repeat a new lie is all the more totalitarianism 101.
The final part of that post is obviously bollocks though.
Exactly what I was going to say but couldn't find a way of saying it so concisely
I can't see it having been a coordinated policy, more something that someone analysing it after the fact comes up with as a narrative that fits neatly with the events
People always assume that Governments are acting in a coordinated, rational and calculated manner with each decision and each public announcement geared towards achieving some higher-aim but in reality they are probably just blundering around reacting to random events like the rest of us!
You're quoting me as saying that, when I was just relaying a press release. Next big scandal incoming- Cummings flouts related persons betting rules!
Ha, Ha! yes, he's more likely to get fired for that... especially if he didn't tell Boris first!
'They will tell you what justice is.'
Anyway, aside from any grand schemes, they've probably learnt that lies work - if for instance, if I routinely posted that I'm a billionaire, some - even if only a tiny minority - might end up believing it; result.
I think we need the press or the police to make another move before further resignations.
Exactly, I fully accept that some governments lie in that manner and for the purposes that you propose. But someone writing that it was a systematic feature of Chinese propaganda in the 80s/90s to me just sounds more like someone coming up with something that sounds interesting and plausible to give their views credibility, and it's not the sort of thing you can easily disprove. I suppose I'm especially suspicious of it occurring at a time where views hostile to China seem to be gaining more prominence.
Quote from another board. My own opinion isn't as hardline as this but the scenario remains a possibility, I guess:
'The 'testing my eyesight' story it a two-pronged attack. Firstly it's a distraction from the real issue and a way of making light of something that is actually very serious.
Secondly and more disturbingly, it's a way for the government to readjust the way we think about the truth.
The majority of people know that this isn't the truth, but the government is very publicly telling us it is the truth.
For the government to decide that they know it's not true, we know its not true but we are betting that we can put this out there and get away with it is very sinister indeed. A sign of things to come if these lunatics stay in power.'
'The 'testing my eyesight' story it a two-pronged attack. Firstly it's a distraction from the real issue and a way of making light of something that is actually very serious.
Secondly and more disturbingly, it's a way for the government to readjust the way we think about the truth.
The majority of people know that this isn't the truth, but the government is very publicly telling us it is the truth.
For the government to decide that they know it's not true, we know its not true but we are betting that we can put this out there and get away with it is very sinister indeed. A sign of things to come if these lunatics stay in power.'
It's a fundamental misunderstanding of Cummings' character too. As contemptible a person as he is, it cannot be said that he aspires to public attention, hence the press conference can only be interpreted as a concession on his part, a recognition of the problem created by his actions. Likewise, he does not at all seem the type to care what historians write about him. They'd just be dismissed as liberal Remoaners bitter about being outsmarted by him. In fact I'd go as far as to say the exact opposite is true - he seems the sort who'd love to be treated as some sort of villain in history books. It would only feed his ego.
Boris is 'self first', so I can't really see him sacking Cummings now. If he is seen to succumb to this sort of pressure then the rest of his time as PM will be limited, internal Tory machinations will see to that, and with an 80-seat majority and the best part of 4/5 years to go to the next GE, why would he do that?
If he shows any doubt, or as others would say show 'weakness' now, then all his future intentions, whether it be Brexit of anything else, will go up in flames, he will become a lame-duck barely 12 months into his premiership.
A lot of people are rightly upset and angry about what they see as 'one law...etc.' but Boris will have to take that on the chin, accept that his ratings will nose-dive (maybe even further than they have now), and soldier on.
You can bet on one thing for certain if Cummings goes so will Boris, maybe not right away but not long after, and of course that is a unifying aim which will rally the opposition. Starmer has to play this carefully, he can't afford to be seen wielding the knife as that will scare tory rebels, but he has to be there to lead the charge afterwards, it will take some doing, is he up to it, can he earn his spurs?
If he shows any doubt, or as others would say show 'weakness' now, then all his future intentions, whether it be Brexit of anything else, will go up in flames, he will become a lame-duck barely 12 months into his premiership.
A lot of people are rightly upset and angry about what they see as 'one law...etc.' but Boris will have to take that on the chin, accept that his ratings will nose-dive (maybe even further than they have now), and soldier on.
You can bet on one thing for certain if Cummings goes so will Boris, maybe not right away but not long after, and of course that is a unifying aim which will rally the opposition. Starmer has to play this carefully, he can't afford to be seen wielding the knife as that will scare tory rebels, but he has to be there to lead the charge afterwards, it will take some doing, is he up to it, can he earn his spurs?
Which only goes to show how hidebound and stale such ways of thinking are. And how idiotic the 'strong leader' concept is.
The truth is somewhere in between. The reason Cummings has got so far is because he's been able to control media narrative to political advantage in the past. Gove credits him with twice saving his career in the early days by doing so. The infamous big red bus lie was Cummings's strategy. The primary aim of it wasn't to convince people that we could better fund the NHS if we left the EU but to cause a media shitstorm and really light a fire under the Brexit debate. Cummings admits that it worked much better than even he anticipated.
They do have calculated strategy, if it works in this case is a different matter. I guess it depends on what the end is. If Boris really believes that he needs Cummings for Brexit no matter what and is balancing that against a short term battering in public confidence then they might just get away with it.
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On the contrary, if you look around the world such concepts are in vogue.
True but its popularity doesn't guarantee that it's worth anything besides its use in gaining the cheapest kind of victories.
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Also true, and nothing last forever, we all get our day in the sun, good or bad and the old saying about we never learn from history is very apt. You have to ask yourself why is the 'strong leader' thing, which was much reviled after the chaos of WW2, is making a comeback.
Of course everyone has their pet view, mine is that across the world, especially in many first world countries, the so called silent majority is getting p**ssed off with their lot and want change, and there is always a 'strong leader' there to oblige... just a thought!
As said earlier in this thread, it’s difficult for any politician to recover when their image becomes the focus of ridicule which is the case with almost all the current cabinet.