Westminster Politics

Fluctuation0161

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Income tax is not the only tax though. It fell under Osborne but it was offset by increased taxes on goods and services which meant that net taxation under Tories 2010 to 2015 basically stayed consistent with what it had been under Labour. I agree there was a regressive shift overall but that doesn't mean it's the same as what Kwarteng is doing now.

What Osborne did was maintain tax levels while shrinking public spending in order to shrink the deficit. (Or at least that was the plan, it didn't work)

What Kwarteng is proposing is shrinking taxation, increasing public spending and just letting the deficit balloon indefinitely.

Those two things are categorically different. They may both be regressive but they reach that point in two very different ways.
Oh yes, no doubt this is a crazier version. Like I said, on steroids!
By 2015 debt vs GDP was up to 81% after George Osbournes policies. It was 60% in 2010. So the balance was not there under Osbourne.
 

largelyworried

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Oh yes, no doubt this is a crazier version. Like I said, on steroids!
By 2015 debt vs GDP was up to 81% after George Osbournes policies. It was 60% in 2010. So the balance was not there under Osbourne.
As I've said, the plans are categorically different. The fact that Osbornes plan didn't work is irrelevant.
 

Maticmaker

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@Maticmaker you still not voting Labour cause they’re too interested in being in the ‘international socialist brethren’?
It's not me that's not voting Labour its millions of people, many of whom don't know what the international Socialist brethren is,...but they do know that when Labour get into this mode of speaking it makes no difference to their lives. They become like children listening in on adult conversation, but then after a while don't understand and so give up and go and play in the garden...see also @Frosty below

It is up to Labour to do their job and ensure that the campaign doesn't focus on how the trans community and Black Lives Matter are ruining Britain. The danger of Labour being passive and thinking they can win the next election because Truss is useless is that the Tories will define the terms of the campaign.

What do we have instead? Rachel Reeves saying she is uncomfortable with pronouns. That makes sense. Let's have a Shadow Chancellor that doesn't use pronouns in speeches.
Spot on!
 

Fluctuation0161

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As I've said, the plans are categorically different. The fact that Osbornes plan didn't work is irrelevant.
Although, of course, the plans are different. They are from the same ideology. Kwarteng/Truss are just building on ideas that have failed over the last 12 years. Primarily trickle down economics and reducing tax for the richest, with the poorest being worse off.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...hit-george-osborne-tax-benefit-budget-changes

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ffice-for-budget-responsibility-a7620286.html
 

largelyworried

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Although, of course, the plans are different. They are from the same ideology. Kwarteng/Truss are just building on ideas that have failed over the last 12 years. Primarily trickle down economics and reducing tax for the richest, with the poorest being worse off.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...hit-george-osborne-tax-benefit-budget-changes

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ffice-for-budget-responsibility-a7620286.html
If you want to boil it all down to the level of saying any policies that makes the rich richer are all just the same, go ahead. Im interested in the detail though, where they are functionally very different.
 

Dr. StrangeHate

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I am actually panicking now. I wanted to leave UK at one point to go back to my home country. But the pound is going to be so bad that I am likely going to be stuck here.
 

Giant Midget

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Kwarteng is going to have to resign this morning and make it look like they’re having a re-think or we are in deep shit. I would say it’s mind boggling stupidity but we know full well it isn’t.
This government will be finished already then.

They are going scorched earth and are counting on their useless backbenchers not doing anything as it’s still early days.
 

Giant Midget

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I am actually panicking now. I wanted to leave UK at one point to go back to my home country. But the pound is going to be so bad that I am likely going to be stuck here.
I’m an American that actually moved here from New York :lol:

Time to put in some feelers and figure out a way back.

The UK has gone to the dogs, and I’m still making less money (even when converted to GBP at 1.3) then I was when I left the US 5 years ago.
 

UweBein

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Just imagine all these American tourists that will come now and visit.
 

Jippy

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Kwarteng is going to have to resign this morning and make it look like they’re having a re-think or we are in deep shit. I would say it’s mind boggling stupidity but we know full well it isn’t.
:lol:That would make the country look less of an emerging market if the chancellor resigned the day after his budget. He's just going to have to hope that the impact is quick though in terms of growth.
Speculators are clearly going to keep targeting the pound for the foreseeable.
 

Steven Seagull

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:lol:That would make the country look less of an emerging market if the chancellor resigned the day after his budget. He's just going to have to hope that the impact is quick though in terms of growth.
Speculators are clearly going to keep targeting the pound for the foreseeable.
Short term embarrassment beats long term pain. Anything could happen this week. Maybe a whole decade
 

Dr. StrangeHate

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I’m an American that actually moved here from New York :lol:

Time to put in some feelers and figure out a way back.

The UK has gone to the dogs, and I’m still making less money (even when converted to GBP at 1.3) then I was when I left the US 5 years ago.
For sure time to go back. Brexit, COVID and Tories have f****** the country beyond repair it seems. Only way is down.
 

Buster15

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Up to 1.08 now

Going to be very bumpy I think for the next few weeks.

And I believe there is supposed to be a proper budget with an obr forecast by the end of the year that could be (probably will be) another good opportunity to short the £
Especially when you consider that we buy energy on the open markets which are priced at dollars.
Something our wonderful chancellor is probably trying to ignore.
 

Shinjch

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Will she make it past Christmas?

And have the usual suspects been blaming this on Labour in this thread?
 

sun_tzu

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Especially when you consider that we buy energy on the open markets which are priced at dollars.
Something our wonderful chancellor is probably trying to ignore.
Yes - Potentially friction over the NI protocol to come and the inflation pressure from big drops against the yuan and euro as well.

Will be interesting to see how the UK does in relation to USA and Euro area over the next few months

https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/inflation-rate

Hard to imagine interest rates not going up substantially again by the end of the year though if we dont see a substantial drop in in inflation rates for September / October and as you say energy prices (and the plummeting pound make that very improbable what is it 2.25 at the moment - would expect somewhere between 3 and 3.5 by the end of the year and 4% by the march budget.... 5% or more before the end of 2023 I'd guess.

Presumably Truss is going to hope we are back at say 3% by late 2024 and claim that as a victory in her election pitch
 

ThehatchetMan

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We, as a population, are pathetic. Imagine if this was in France, they wouldn't stand for this shit and they'd be out in their thousands protesting.

No point discussing it on a forum or social media. We, the people, need to start making our discontent shown in the thousands and taking to the streets.

I shouldn't be advocating crime but sometimes crime is the only option. Irish catholics wouldn't have the rights they do today if it weren't for terrorism. Which while I don't agree with it; sometimes it's the only way to be heard.

If things don't change quick. I think protests and organising as a population won't be too far away. Being asset rich means feck all when you can't protect your country estates against the mob.

Things are gonna turn ugly soon. And I don't even feel bad or guilty about it, I support it. Viva le revolution.

A good start would be the population stopping their rent payments. They can't evict us all. And they can't afford their mortgages without us.
 

lefty_jakobz

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We, as a population, are pathetic. Imagine if this was in France, they wouldn't stand for this shit and they'd be out in their thousands protesting.

No point discussing it on a forum or social media. We, the people, need to start making our discontent shown in the thousands and taking to the streets.

I shouldn't be advocating crime but sometimes crime is the only option. Irish catholics wouldn't have the rights they do today if it weren't for terrorism. Which while I don't agree with it; sometimes it's the only way to be heard.

If things don't change quick. I think protests and organising as a population won't be too far away. Being asset rich means feck all when you can't protect your country estates against the mob.

Things are gonna turn ugly soon. And I don't even feel bad or guilty about it, I support it. Viva le revolution.

A good start would be the population stopping their rent payments. They can't evict us all. And they can't afford their mortgages without us.
Is there any wonder why Patel tried to get protesting banned?
 

justsomebloke

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Fullbrook is the new Cummings.
Not really - Fullbrook is the new Levido or Crosby. Cummings didn't represent a commercial campaign organisation/lobbying firm. Rather it would make sense to compare Cummings to Nick Timothy. Or Seumas Milne. In terms of role, I mean.