Indeed. In fact, even Madrid tend to give their managers more than 3 months.feck me
Some of you would make great Madrid fans
Chelsea was still a settled squad last season that got unsettled for a while due to all that happened.I don't believe in sacking on the basis of league position, generally. However, I find it frustrating that we are currently well behind two rival teams we finished ahead of last season having bought some excellent players in the summer.
One of these teams - Chelsea - are doing this having also changed manager, having messed around in the transfer window and having had to adjust to an entirely new system.
Ultimately, the results have been nowhere near good enough and, in truth, neither have the performances. Instead, we're listening to lots of complaining that (from the outside) doesn't seem conducive to creating a good working atmosphere.
Really? I'd argue that they started the season with comfortably the worst set of defensive options, an out of sorts Hazard and an out of form Costa.Chelsea was still a settled squad last season that got unsettled for a while due to all that happened.
I agree he had a death by possession strategy but I was talking more in terms of personnel to be fair. The whole front 6 had no identity in terms of what kind of players would play each role. Pacey striker or Rooney? Pace on both wings or Mata on one side? Second striker (Rooney), creative player (Mata) or pacey dribbler (Lingard) in the number 10? Playmakers or box to box or tackler/destroyer or strong players in midfield? It kept changing pretty much throughout the season and it wasn't down to rotation of squad.A plan was arguably the only thing we had under LvG. Although I agree with your first paragraph, this second one is just words. Our plan didn't work, arguably it sucked, but we definitely had a clear attacking strategy.
We won the PL a few years ago by using 3x players. A settled starting line-up is not an unambigous argument for lack of performance
The same Hazard and Costa are lighting it up, so yes, they definitely had a better set of players.Really? I'd argue that they started the season with comfortably the worst set of defensive options, an out of sorts Hazard and an out of form Costa.
They're doing better than us having spent less money, having witnessed more change. Mourinho has no excuses.
Because the coaching is more organised and having a greater impact on players. We also have players who are more than capable of lighting it up, such as Martial, Rashford and Mkhitaryan, who for various reasons are doing anything but.The same Hazard and Costa are lighting it up, so yes, they definitely had a better set of players.
Rashford is overrated, Mkhitaryan is unproven in the league and no idea what Martial's problems are. It's not all down to management. Can't be. Although I do agree that some of it may be. You and I will never know. At least not until the players start performing either here or under another manager in the PL.Because the coaching is more organised and having a greater impact on players. We also have players who are more than capable of lighting it up, such as Martial, Rashford and Mkhitaryan, who for various reasons are doing anything but.
Yet more grass is greener bullshit...
Before the start of this season Moses was mid table quality, Luiz was a PlayStation error waiting to happen, Alonso was best known as a Bolton drop out, Pedro was an apparent dodged bullet and the rest of the Chelsea players were a bunch of weak spine less players who'd all downed tools. Conte, a manager with little to no experience outside Italy has combined to turn Chelsea to a mesmerising team!Rashford is overrated, Mkhitaryan is unproven in the league and no idea what Martial's problems are. It's not all down to management. Can't be. Although I do agree that some of it may be. You and I will never know. At least not until the players start performing either here or under another manager in the PL.
And?Before the start of this season Moses was mid table quality, Luiz was a PlayStation error waiting to happen, Alonso was best known as a Bolton drop out, Pedro was an apparent dodged bullet and the rest of the Chelsea players were a bunch of weak spine less players who'd all downed tools. Conte, a manager with little to no experience outside Italy has combined to turn Chelsea to a mesmerising team!
Top 4 would be nice but we definitely have to give him time to mould his own team and make us great again.Even without top4, I'd still want him to stay. At some point someone needs to be trusted for a few years.
This, he's no Wenger, Klopp, Simeone,Pochettino, he's not some renowned builder.i just cant see why so much people want to give him so long to build a team, its something he has never actually done, every club he has went to he has had an instant impact, and so far he aint done that here for me.
It's probably about a final pick of someone who won before but still is relatively young for a manager to create legacy plus stopping throwing the club into this constant, obnoxious loop of sacking and dealing with same consequences every 2-3 years.i just cant see why so much people want to give him so long to build a team, its something he has never actually done, every club he has went to he has had an instant impact, and so far he aint done that here for me.
I'm glad he's not Wenger. Probability of building a team for European trophies would be minimal.This, he's no Wenger, Klopp, Simeone,Pochettino, he's not some renowned builder.
True but he was specifically hired for instant impact at Chelsea, Inter and Madrid rather than long-term team building (and all 3 are notorious for firing managers). While I won't deny I expected more instant impact at United, it is a very different situation to those three clubs - he has inherited a dog's breakfast of a squad rather than a talented group which just needs that extra 10% to turn them into winners.i just cant see why so much people want to give him so long to build a team, its something he has never actually done, every club he has went to he has had an instant impact, and so far he aint done that here for me.
I'm not disagreeing with what you said, except that we are also a "firing club". We are on our 4th manager in 5 years, which is pretty bad.True but he was specifically hired for instant impact at Chelsea, Inter and Madrid rather than long-term team building (and all 3 are notorious for firing managers). While I won't deny I expected more instant impact at United, it is a very different situation to those three clubs - he has inherited a dog's breakfast of a squad rather than a talented group which just needs that extra 10% to turn them into winners.
True although we are not yet at the stage where we fire people before Christmas. Moyes got almost a full season despite setting new records every week while Van Gaal got two.I'm not disagreeing with what you said, except that we are also a "firing club". We are on our 4th manager in 5 years, which is pretty bad.
Give Wenger the same funds and ability to splash 100 millions on players and he could, a lot of people forget the limited resources he has had to work with, their transfer budget is just significantly smaller than Chelsea's, City's and United's and most other top European Clubs.It's probably about a final pick of someone who won before but still is relatively young for a manager to create legacy plus stopping throwing the club into this constant, obnoxious loop of sacking and dealing with same consequences every 2-3 years.
I'm glad he's not Wenger. Probability of building a team for European trophies would be minimal.
Hello Oliver HoltI'm not a United fan but if I were, what would worry me most is his demeanour. In the past, although he hasn't exactly seemed like the happiest chap in the world, he has exuded a lot of self confidence. He portrayed a guy who seemed to know what he was doing. People sometimes called this "mind games" or whatever. His answers to media questions in particular always seemed to be spot on. He came across as a winner and the kind of guy you'd always want on your side. He often sailed close to the line, especially with comments about other managers but time and time again whatever he said or did always got vindicated. If I had to sum it up I would say he came across as someone with a huge amount of mental strength and, especially with regard to the manager of my team, he always had the upper edge. I always felt Arsenal were beaten before the match even started. His Chelsea team were the living embodiment of this mental strength and even if we went ahead, I always had the feeling his team would come back and beat us or at least never lose.
Now, that self confidence seems to have dissipated at least to some extent. He doesn't seem as cocksure as he used to. Perhaps this is just a phase he is going through and he will come out the other side even stronger but it's also possible he really has started to question himself, even if it's only sub-consciously.
The game against Arsenal on 19th November is going to be really interesting. I think it's a much more important game for Mourinho than it is for Wenger. I think most people think Mourinho's league record against Wenger will continue and that United will not lose the game. I think if someone offered Mourinho a draw now he would take it and so would Wenger. If I were a betting man I'd bet on a draw but if Arsenal do win, I would be worried if I were a United fan. A lot of people on here are saying that even if he fails to get top 4 he should still be given more time. I think that if by March time a top 4 finish is looking unlikely he will do something that will force United's hand. If he's already criticising his players in November his natural personality will combust if things aren't looking good towards the seasons end.
I don't think the United board had much choice in appointing him. His end at Chelsea was not enough to prove he'd lost his mojo and if they hadn't appointed him, there would have been endless questions from both fans and media as to why he wasn't appointed. Heck, I still wanted him to replace Wenger at the end of last season because his track record meant his stock was still high. I do think now though that he has lost something and potentially won't get it back. I do disagree with people here who say there is nowhere for United to go should he leave though. With the resources you have, managing United has got to be the most sought after job in management. If I were a manager with no loyalties to another team, United would be my first choice. Huge resources and both historically and currently a massive club. The match going fans as well are miles better than for example Madrid where expectations are frankly pathetic. It's only a matter of time before United win the league again and I think only a matter of time before they're back in the latter stages of the Champions league on a regular basis. Unfortunately for you guys though I think it might be with your next manager rather than your current one.
I hope that Mourinho does have something left in the tank because if this is the start of the end for him, it will make football in this country less interesting. On the other hand I hope we tonk you on the 19th !
Surely you don't send a dog to the vet because he pissed in the house, right? You are not a savage?@Twigginater I mean this with all respect, but if you were a dog we'd be taking you to the vets and putting you down right now. This is the Caf equivalent of pissing in the house.
Apart from a victory in the FA Cup against us in March 2015, Arsenal last beat us in the 2006/07 season. In the last 12 matches since that defeat in 2006/07, we have done really well against them and we really are the bogey team for them at Old Trafford. So, yes, he has got a point about it being tough for Mourinho should we lose this.Hello Oliver Holt
This - and you can add SAF and Malcolm Glazer to that list too if we're honest, trophies notwithstanding.Give him 3 years. He has to do a full rebuild, we are in terrible shape after Gollum and Vangle
Good post, its shocking how the expectations of Mourinho has dropped after his poor stint so far.As a City fan I'd prefer it if you kept him for the duration of his contract! Being serious though I believe he should be sacked if he doesnt get top 4 this season. The main reason he was appointed or so we were told by the media was his ability to impact teams in the short term and get them challenging from the off. Hes so far failed to do that while breaking the transfer record and having the highest wage bill in football. Hes failing to even reach the minimum expectation which I would of assumed in July would of been 4th. You didn't appoint Mourinho to build, that would be risky and foolish as hes never built a squad before. As mentioned before his impact is very immediate or so it was in the past, trusting him to build a squad capable of challenging when he clearly struggling to get the best out of Martial, Mkhitaryan, Luke Shaw and even Rashford it could argued would be a shocking decision.
Nothing in his career suggests he can build a title winning squad. Nothing. He normally adds 3/4 like he did this summer and his quality as a coach used to elevate his squad. If you wanted a manager to build a team should of kept LVG. Who won the FA Cup with Rashford/Martial flying and Fosu Mensah a regular part of the first 18. All three have regressed.
I feel the other way - I am amazed at how little time people are willing to give him! If we lose on Saturday, we lose a game. The only subplot is the one we fans are making. We would be suicidal to sack another boss so soon, especially one with the track record of Mourinho.I don't think we will win on Saturday but if we do I think Mourinho will be finished. He truly does despise Wenger and losing to him in this moment would hurt Mourinho incredibly. He always seems to be one major incident away from losing the plot and generally struggles to recover from that when it happens. For me, losing this weekend would be the beginning of the end with more immature and incorrect swipes at his players and a refusal to accept blame or criticism behind closed doors.
I'm surprised how supportive people here are of Mourinho, honestly.
You seem to mix building a squad capable of winning the title with building it from scratch. The former is something he's done and is what we need. No one cares about whether he's capable of the later as that's not needed here.As a City fan I'd prefer it if you kept him for the duration of his contract! Being serious though I believe he should be sacked if he doesnt get top 4 this season. The main reason he was appointed or so we were told by the media was his ability to impact teams in the short term and get them challenging from the off. Hes so far failed to do that while breaking the transfer record and having the highest wage bill in football. Hes failing to even reach the minimum expectation which I would of assumed in July would of been 4th. You didn't appoint Mourinho to build, that would be risky and foolish as hes never built a squad before. As mentioned before his impact is very immediate or so it was in the past, trusting him to build a squad capable of challenging when he clearly struggling to get the best out of Martial, Mkhitaryan, Luke Shaw and even Rashford it could argued would be a shocking decision.
Nothing in his career suggests he can build a title winning squad. Nothing. He normally adds 3/4 like he did this summer and his quality as a coach used to elevate his squad. If you wanted a manager to build a team should of kept LVG. Who won the FA Cup with Rashford/Martial flying and Fosu Mensah a regular part of the first 18. All three have regressed.
I think the support for him is to be expected. We have a top manager, the options are to either give him some time or boot him out at the first sign of trouble. What would the later achieve? Do we have world class managers guaranteeing trophies lining up to take the job? If not, what exactly does it achieve? We press the reset button like we did at the start of this season again and then inevitably sack the next guy too once he doesn't deliver immediate success.I don't think we will win on Saturday but if we do I think Mourinho will be finished. He truly does despise Wenger and losing to him in this moment would hurt Mourinho incredibly. He always seems to be one major incident away from losing the plot and generally struggles to recover from that when it happens. For me, losing this weekend would be the beginning of the end with more immature and incorrect swipes at his players and a refusal to accept blame or criticism behind closed doors.
I'm surprised how supportive people here are of Mourinho, honestly.
You shouldn't. He was the best option available out there as LVG clearly was not the answer. It was always a marriage of convenience but I am surprised that Mou has not achieved bigger impact. A lot of opinions have been given and most of them are valid in that his whole demeanour is different this season perhaps now realising he is in a much bigger mess than he originally thought. That is why a lot of people are willing to give him the time to turn this around, myself included. If you get rid of him who is the obvious replacement out there? What is obvious is that aside from him, there are clearly inferior players who still need to be gotten rid of.I don't think we will win on Saturday but if we do I think Mourinho will be finished. He truly does despise Wenger and losing to him in this moment would hurt Mourinho incredibly. He always seems to be one major incident away from losing the plot and generally struggles to recover from that when it happens. For me, losing this weekend would be the beginning of the end with more immature and incorrect swipes at his players and a refusal to accept blame or criticism behind closed doors.
I'm surprised how supportive people here are of Mourinho, honestly.
This is my worry. I'm not too concerned about it yet though, because it's difficult to tell and there's a lot of work needed with the team.I'm not a United fan but if I were, what would worry me most is his demeanour. In the past, although he hasn't exactly seemed like the happiest chap in the world, he has exuded a lot of self confidence. He portrayed a guy who seemed to know what he was doing. People sometimes called this "mind games" or whatever. His answers to media questions in particular always seemed to be spot on. He came across as a winner and the kind of guy you'd always want on your side. He often sailed close to the line, especially with comments about other managers but time and time again whatever he said or did always got vindicated. If I had to sum it up I would say he came across as someone with a huge amount of mental strength and, especially with regard to the manager of my team, he always had the upper edge. I always felt Arsenal were beaten before the match even started. His Chelsea team were the living embodiment of this mental strength and even if we went ahead, I always had the feeling his team would come back and beat us or at least never lose.
Now, that self confidence seems to have dissipated at least to some extent. He doesn't seem as cocksure as he used to. Perhaps this is just a phase he is going through and he will come out the other side even stronger but it's also possible he really has started to question himself, even if it's only sub-consciously.
That's a bit much, but I agree he needs longer to shape the team and get rid of the problem makers before we judgeIt's almost impossible to judge him
I think this is a squad who needs to be completely rebuilt, needs time to get rid of 15-20 players.
What an absolutely ridiculous post.Are we close to it now?
We've got to stand by our managers but when does it become the point of no return?
As of now, I'm just so depressed. I wish we had sorted ourselves out properly. Why are we so shit?
