Guus Hiddink
Who replaces Ten Hag?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Get a DOF in, sort out that side of the club. Get rid of the primadonnas in the squad and the deadweight.
Then any manager stands a better chance.
Wont suprise me if its potter.
Then any manager stands a better chance.
Wont suprise me if its potter.
I find it very to believe that Potter is a better manager than Ten Hag, so just let Ineos give Ten Hag the chance to do the job better.
It didn't help that his heart was never really in it as he was living out of a hotel all the time he was here
Fergie was not some green horn either. He had broken the duopoly in the Scottish league and won a European trophy by defeating Real Madrid in the final. He had real credentials when he came to Man Utd.
Having said that, I don’t mind ETH staying, if only to instill discipline and get rid of the prima donna elements in the squad.
I'd like McKenna name to be in the hat, I think he'd do a very good job.
Ok so what has changed between this season and last?
Why was Ten Hag able to be moderately successful last season under such a horrific structure yet this season it’s falling apart?
Can you also explain why Ten Hag rejected leaving responsibility for squad building to those above him and instead chose to sign players from Holland and those who share the same agent? You don’t get to say “I won’t judge Eth until it’s the right structure” when he himself is partly responsible for the current structure being in place of allowing a manager the overall say in squad building.
You must understand that most United fans on here would not be complaining if the team maintained last seasons performance.
Ole and Jose did moderately okay/well in their first two full seasons. It went wrong in their third. It’s going wrong in Ten Hags second season as it did with LVG. Who still managed to win the FA cup nevertheless
Is this simply not just the way it is for the modern day manager? You last 2-3 seasons. Why do Manchester United fans like yourself think the club is so special that you see run of the mill managerial changes as such dramatic/club altering things?
Why is it that this horrific structure you keep talking about, didn’t seem to cause such disarray in six of the last nine seasons?
In my opinion the Glazers mistakes are giving average/past it managers too much responsibility and repeatedly hiring average managers in the first place. And i think managers go into Manchester United knowing they’ll be given a lot of power.
The Glazers are not going anywhere, it’s simple.
We can’t change them so the only way for us to become successful is to hire an appropriate coach. One who has proven he can implement a modern, proactive and progressive style in a top league. One who is happy to work under a transfer committee as opposed to making all the decisions themselves. We have not done that once. Literally not a single time. We had the chance to last season and that’s what the Glazers wanted to do but instead they got sucked into fans demanding for Ten Hag and changed tact and hired him instead.
So many wanted Ten Hag based on one CL run. They got what they wanted and he’s ultimately failed. He’s failed to implement a modern progressive style and he’s blown his budget on crap. Why are these people doubling down instead of just going “ok we were wrong, let’s move on”?
Because for so many fans like yourself it’s about wanting to be right or sticking to a narrative.
i just find it baffling that some United fans have basically done a full swing. Last season Ten Hag was this great manager who’d performed a miracle. In the summer he was literally backed with 200 million to bring in his own players. He’s now completely stinking the place up and suddenly it’s “club structure” “glazers” “no manager can be expected to succeed”. Like why the extremes? This is such a flawed narrative. If you want to endlessly slag off the Glazers and suggest it’s impossible to be a succes here under them. Then I’m sorry you don’t get to label a manager finishing 3rd and winning a league cup as a massive success story.
You think Ten Hag is one of the best in the world at his job? He’s not nearly proven enough for those shouts, Emery has shown more in his career than Ten Hag.
It doesn’t matter if you don’t think so, Emery has won four Europa Leagues, multiple trophies at PSG, took Villarreal to the Champions League semi final beating Bayern and Juve. Ten Hag has had success in Holland and a singular strong European campaign.
You asking his opinion and then responding back saying- doesn't matter what you think.
If you don't know what has changed there is no point in us having this discussion.
For the same reasons it happened to Mourinho a far better manager than him. Then Solksjaer who is below both. For the same reasons Moyes got swallowed after Gills and SAF left. For the same reasons LVG was sacked at the firs sign of progress just because City had hired Pep.
Now see this rubbish....
First, ETH never rejected recruitment responsibility above him. That's a straight up lie
Second, as regards signings.
Eriksen wasn't signed from Holland. Onana wasn't signed from Holland. Mount wasn't signed from Holland. Amrabat wasnt signed from Holland. Freaking Weghorst DIDN'T arrive from Holland. Casemiro and Rasmus Hoijlund have neither played in Holand nor were signed from there. Bayindir wasn't signed from Holland nor played there. Regullion, Dubravka, Butland, Evans, Sabitzer? Not from Holland. Never played there!
Strictly Martinez, Antony and Malacia arrived directly from there
Y'all need stop with that dimwitted narrative.....We expect it from the A.B.U press not our fans! Especially because a manager has chosen to go for players more than likelly to be used/understand better to the type of football he prefers to implement.
WRONG! I get to say it because he has had nothing to do with United not hiring a proffecient DOF and installing a world class recruitment structure above the manager in the 8 -9 seasons since SAF retired.
Right. I should be 'understanding" that our fans support the manager in good times only. Got you!......
Rather it's fans like your self who think Manchester United is "so special" that it can short cut success and ignore all that is required to attain it in this era by simply hiring and firing managers. Ad naseum......
Is this a serious question? Is Moyes still our manager? Is LVG? Is Mourinho? Is Ole? Why have we changed footballing direction 4 times since SAF retiref? Have we won the league in those seasons or come close? Have we reached the late stage of the UCL in that period? For you to claim with a straight face that the poor structure didn't cause disarray
What part of your OWN words are you unable to understand point to the poor structure the likes of me talk about? I mean seriously?
Bullshit. We just hired one. With the rubbish structure and work environment they have fostered falling him handsomely whilst jokers like you pretend he has suddenly became past it and ancient in his coaching methods. Less than 2 seasons into the job....
"He has ultimately failed". The second season isnt even half way through. It's crap logic like this that makes fans like myself not take people like you seriously!
You wish. Its rather because of some of us are not prone to the knee jerk disease and short termism a lot of our fan base is inflicted with. That makes them constantly incapable of seeing the big picture. The likes of me warned y'all this EXACTLY would happen the idiot Glazers decided to 'keep up with the Jones" and fire LVG to hire Mourinho just because City had finally recruited Pep. We have been saying the same things through each failed manager reign. You lot have NEVER listened. Yet when things fall apart as we predicted you instead want us to 'admit we are wrong". Yet y'all have NEVER been right once!
Typical missing the point. The likes of myself told you Mourinho finishing second with this structure was a nigh miracle. You sneered then. We told you the same with Ole. You sneered. Heck you are still sneering now. After pretending last season to be pleased with the progress ETH had at first. Its not US who keep changing narratives and doubling down just too look right. Its YOU! You are the ones who swing from praising a manager at the start to rubbishing him when inevitable trouble sets in.
Thats the kind of unseriousness we are dealing with in here.You asking his opinion and then responding back saying- doesn't matter what you think.
This thread will be busy about 7pm tonight.
Please could you point to where I ask for Red Indian’s opinion on whether Emery is more proven than Ten Hag.You asking his opinion and then responding back saying- doesn't matter what you think.
Emery has ONLY been truly succesful at mid level clubs like Sevilla, Villareal and Aston Villa. When he stepped up to clubs of the size of Ajax like PSG or Arsenal he was poor. At PSG for example he got beaten to a league title by an AS Monaco with half his resources and led by a teenager in Mbappe, with inferior coavhes to him yet he should have been utterly dominant. Not forgetting losing a comfortable winning position to Barca in the UCL. At Arsenal he didnt survive long neither and won nothing.
In comparison at an Ajax size club ETH won a 3 peat league title. Plus punched above his weight in heavy weight clashes in the Europa League and UCL over 3 seasons vs opponents better equipped than him with better known coaches. With us he finished 3rd and has won a cup already inspite his current struggles
So sorry not sorry for not rating Emery as high as you do.
You can’t compare Ten Hag’s job at a very big club in a very tiny league to what Emery has achieved in Europe; he has four European titles. Ten Hag punched above his weight in one Champions League seasons, then had average European seasons, notably going out of the Europa League to Getafe 12 months after a Champions League semi final. You’re making a foolish comparison.
Four
European titles ALL at small clubs like Sevilla and Villareal. When he went to size of club that is a traditional European Giant like Ajax is like Arsenal and PSG he was a straight up dissapointment. Especially at PSG with the resources at his disposal.
"You're making a foolish comparison" says a one trying to compare winning major trophies at small clubs with low expectations, to sustaining success at a traditional European giant were success is demanded and expected regardless of resources at hand.
Do you think it’s more impressive to win the Dutch league than four Europa Leagues?Four
European titles ALL at small clubs like Sevilla and Villareal. When he went to size of club that is a traditional European Giant like Ajax is like Arsenal and PSG he was a straight up dissapointment. Especially at PSG with the resources at his disposal.
"You're making a foolish comparison" says a one trying to compare winning major trophies at small clubs with low expectations, to sustaining success at a traditional European giant were success is demanded and expected regardless of resources at hand.
Emery has achieved far more in his career than Ten Hag it's not even close between the two of them.
Would love to know how you could argue Ten Hag is better
Was typing to make responses to these and then actually realised you didn’t answer anything I asked basically. All generic, passive aggressive delusional nonsensical responses.
Youve been posting utter tripe in this thread and I shouldn’t be surprised your response to genuine questions was to respond with more tripe.
It should be mentioned you’re not a fair representative on those who make legitimate arguments for keeping ten hag.
You are utterly delusional that much is apparent. I literally answered every pathetically shallow question you cooked up. Its literally no surprise every single one of the answers flew right over your head! Even funnier is you having the gall of throwing "passive agressive" and 'tripe" around as an accusation. When your last post was an utter train wreck and full of passive aggresion. All because I don't subscribe to ANY of the reasons someone like you would want a Ten Hag out.
My stance is thus:
Emery has strictly been super successfull at small clubs. Clubs like Valencia, Sevilla, Villareal and now Aston Villa. When he has made the step up to big clubs with top end pressure, where winning, competing in europe and dominance is a must regardless of resources and opponents, like at PSG and Arsenal he didn't fair that well. He was sacked at Arsenal, winning nothing and only a Europa runner up spot to his name (kinda stuff Ole gets ridicule for) , squandered a heaIhy UCL lead vs Barca and lost a league title to a poorer and teenager led Monaco that cost him his job that same season at PSG. After a initial first good year.
ETH in comparison at a club like Ajax was utterly dominant domestically and both in the Europa league and UCL was able to punch above his weight consistently.
He then made the step up to an even bigger club with bigger pressure and won a trophy, was runners up in another and finished 3rd, a position which frankly United had no serious business doing. In my book as it stands now he has done more. Unless Emery succeeds in reviving Villa proper and wins the league as he seems to be trying to do right now. I don't rank him above ETH
Right
Anyway, carry on with your terrible posting…
Is this a serious question? Is Moyes still our manager? Is LVG? Is Mourinho? Is Ole? Why have we changed footballing direction 4 times since SAF retiref? Have we won the league in those seasons or come close? Have we reached the late stage of the UCL in that period? For you to claim with a straight face that the poor structure didn't cause disarray
This is what you call 'not answering your questions. Let alone "rubbish posting".
Talk of pot swearing a kettle is black.....
Roll the dice again and go all out to get Ange next season.
1. Play more attacking football than Pep, Arteta and Klopp.
2. Modern entertaining style of play
3. No excuses of needing his own players to play his style of play.
4. No excuses of needing 1 or 2 season to train players fitness and get used to his style of play.
5. Went to Spurs with a dire squad and straight away get them play high intensity attacking football.
His work in Spurs is a miracle. Revived them completely.
We need to start all over again from ownership, DOF and manager. Might as well go for the new heavy metal attacking football by Ange.
P/S: In the interim get Biesla since we have nothing to play for already. We are not going to even get Top 5 with ETH to have a chance to qualify for next year CL.
1. Play more attacking football than Pep, Arteta and Klopp.
2. Modern entertaining style of play
3. No excuses of needing his own players to play his style of play.
4. No excuses of needing 1 or 2 season to train players fitness and get used to his style of play.
5. Went to Spurs with a dire squad and straight away get them play high intensity attacking football.
His work in Spurs is a miracle. Revived them completely.
We need to start all over again from ownership, DOF and manager. Might as well go for the new heavy metal attacking football by Ange.
P/S: In the interim get Biesla since we have nothing to play for already. We are not going to even get Top 5 with ETH to have a chance to qualify for next year CL.
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At this point I would take a wet towel as manager. Would do a better job than the one we have now.
Potter in the interim. Ancelotti in the summer.
de Zerbi should come in straight away, he's got Brighton in a fairly safe space at the moment & they have a knack for getting the right managers in.
He’d do well for a season (new manager bounce) then get chewed up and spat out unless ratcliffe literally sacks everyone from the top down and replaces them with world class footballing folk.
Potter will never sign up for a 3-month stint. Only someone like Ole would do it for the love of the club.
The only way we get rid of that player culture is to do what Edu and Arteta did: get rid of all the veterans and start fresh with kids. Groom them and the new culture from the start.
Otherwise we will have the same problem in 2-3 years time.
My top 3 preferences:
1. Simeone Inzaghi. Pound for pound the best manager in Europe for me. But Inter are flying so he will not move anytime soon.
2. Luis Enrique. Football purist who will live and die by possession-based football. Not afraid to give young players a real chance either if the senior ones are messing up (inevitable at Manchester United). PSG aren't playing as well as many expected and I expect he'll be fired if PSG don't go very deep in the CL (at least semis). So might become available next year.
3. Graham Potter. We won't score much but I expect midfield and defence to improve significantly. From there we can build a platform to sign better attackers in the summer and bin the dreck we have.
But before all this we need to clean house otherwise the next manager will be stuck with the same garbage to pick from and he will pick them regularly again. Purge all the senior players and give the manager a clean slate to work with and let's see what he can do.
1. Simeone Inzaghi. Pound for pound the best manager in Europe for me. But Inter are flying so he will not move anytime soon.
2. Luis Enrique. Football purist who will live and die by possession-based football. Not afraid to give young players a real chance either if the senior ones are messing up (inevitable at Manchester United). PSG aren't playing as well as many expected and I expect he'll be fired if PSG don't go very deep in the CL (at least semis). So might become available next year.
3. Graham Potter. We won't score much but I expect midfield and defence to improve significantly. From there we can build a platform to sign better attackers in the summer and bin the dreck we have.
But before all this we need to clean house otherwise the next manager will be stuck with the same garbage to pick from and he will pick them regularly again. Purge all the senior players and give the manager a clean slate to work with and let's see what he can do.
literally every manager we get has a 1 season (minor) bounce and then the players do this same quitting job again. I feel like people here are just throwing names out because the manager is the easiest option to move on.
They quit on LVG/Jose why wouldn't they just quit on Ancelotti?
They quit on Ole/ETH, why wouldn't they just quit on Potter?
I know it's the easy option, and ETH has things to answer for (and a sacking is looking more likely per week) but are you lot just happy with another decade of 1 season bounces?
They quit on LVG/Jose why wouldn't they just quit on Ancelotti?
They quit on Ole/ETH, why wouldn't they just quit on Potter?
I know it's the easy option, and ETH has things to answer for (and a sacking is looking more likely per week) but are you lot just happy with another decade of 1 season bounces?
Manchester United and dutch manager is a cocktail we need to learn to stay away from.
Can`t sleep right now and watching some other games from yesterday, Pool- Arsenal, Nottingham- Bournemouth to help me relax and sleep again. But no, too much happening, a bit too much fun. I discover that i actually do still love football. It is just us.
Remember that i had similar epiphanies when LvG was here on a mission to kill my love for the sport.
Just abandon this stupid dream of totaalvoetbal or emulating Pep and dominate teams with 87% possession. Possession based football is so vastly overrated it is not even funny.
C`mon Ratcliffe, give us a christmas miracle!
Can`t sleep right now and watching some other games from yesterday, Pool- Arsenal, Nottingham- Bournemouth to help me relax and sleep again. But no, too much happening, a bit too much fun. I discover that i actually do still love football. It is just us.
Remember that i had similar epiphanies when LvG was here on a mission to kill my love for the sport.
Just abandon this stupid dream of totaalvoetbal or emulating Pep and dominate teams with 87% possession. Possession based football is so vastly overrated it is not even funny.
C`mon Ratcliffe, give us a christmas miracle!
There is no quick fix, in order for any manager to succeed, we must move on as many players as we can. But in order to do that we need a DOF with a vision of what football we are to play.
We can not fall into the trap of letting the manager decide what players they want otherwise we end up over paying and stuck with the likes of Sancho and Antony on high wages and high price tags.
We need rid of players like Martial, Rashford, Sancho and Varane. Who are all on high wages and aren't worth the trouble either. Then set a max spend on each position. This requires intensive research as we can't afford to spend 4 to 5 windows just buying one or 2 players on high price tags again. We need at least 4 in every Summer and a possible 1 in the winter if the opportunity is there.
Try nab people on expiring contracts. Sign players before the season ends, not when the season starts. Whether it is ETH or any other manager, the above needs to somewhat followed.
We can not fall into the trap of letting the manager decide what players they want otherwise we end up over paying and stuck with the likes of Sancho and Antony on high wages and high price tags.
We need rid of players like Martial, Rashford, Sancho and Varane. Who are all on high wages and aren't worth the trouble either. Then set a max spend on each position. This requires intensive research as we can't afford to spend 4 to 5 windows just buying one or 2 players on high price tags again. We need at least 4 in every Summer and a possible 1 in the winter if the opportunity is there.
Try nab people on expiring contracts. Sign players before the season ends, not when the season starts. Whether it is ETH or any other manager, the above needs to somewhat followed.
Potter's issue at Chelsea appeared, from the offset at least, to be due to his inability to manage big named players and egos. Our mob would eat him alive. We need someone they immediately respect.
Potter's numbers aren't great either to be honest. For the attractive football he plays, he's only ever once managed a club where he averaged an above 50% win rate. That was in the Danish league. He did very well there and at Brighton, but De Zerbi massively took the latter to the next level. Potter's Chelsea stint was disastrous and they had a much better squad than us when he came in.
Like Mount, Potter would have the same issues here and we will be left to look like fools for going for it. Surely there's good reason he's still out of the game almost a year on from leaving Chelsea?
Potter's numbers aren't great either to be honest. For the attractive football he plays, he's only ever once managed a club where he averaged an above 50% win rate. That was in the Danish league. He did very well there and at Brighton, but De Zerbi massively took the latter to the next level. Potter's Chelsea stint was disastrous and they had a much better squad than us when he came in.
Like Mount, Potter would have the same issues here and we will be left to look like fools for going for it. Surely there's good reason he's still out of the game almost a year on from leaving Chelsea?
Ancelotti is one of the best man manager throughout his career. His CV, and method is proven yielding good result. He's like the blend of Ole positiveness marrying Mourinho's authority due to his successes.
Nobody expect a PL or CL (unlikely for us to participate in next season at this rate). However, keeping the club afloat while allowing the new upper management time to overhaul the bad apples.
A failure manager without even dead cat's bounce would do more damage. Your argument is based off a fantasy where sticking by a manager whom the players had given up, long enough would eventually fix the culture, the squad. There is no evidence of this ever happens. Majority of players don't simply end their contract without pay to move away. ETH had it easy with Ronaldo. It doesn't happen that often, nor it's a good situation for the club where manager keeps pushing players to make the matter into the public.
Structure needs overhauling before we can look long term. Young, promising managers like McKenna or Amorim wouldn't cope with the egos and lack of organisation above them. Middle of the road types like Potter would go the way of ETH.
Someone like Ancelotti would be perfect for a season or two while we restructured under Jim's lead. He'd have the gravitas to set our gang of that's straight and still knows how to setup for some decent football.
I believe there's talk of Alonso going to Madrid next year? It could line up well.
Someone like Ancelotti would be perfect for a season or two while we restructured under Jim's lead. He'd have the gravitas to set our gang of that's straight and still knows how to setup for some decent football.
I believe there's talk of Alonso going to Madrid next year? It could line up well.