Yeah, I agree with that. And I expect us to go into the season with an asymmetrical line up, as in, an incompetent left back until we get a right-footed one back. No actual width on the right and predictable movement on the left. So to have anything resembling a decent season Pogba-Matic-Fred will need to gel and serve up pure quality. I'm not holding my breath for any sort of title challenge.I kind of agree with what you are saying but the nuance is that I don't think that you put enough emphasis on midfield. Would you agree with that statement: Transition is the primary role of a midfield while it is a secondary role for every other position group.
I'm not suggesting that the others shouldn't improve but the reality is that your tactical approach will influence how much transition is important as a secondary role for your attackers and defenders but it will always be the primary role of your midfield. So when your midfield fails at his primary role, you should focus on that.
By the way, in the context of transition, I include DM/AM/wingers in midfield, so I make a difference between a 451 and a 433 for example.
I don't disagree, our centre midfield unit being off has adversely affected our play at both ends of the field for a long time. However we've added Pogba, Matic and Fred in the past couple of years and we have Herrera and likes of Fellaini, McTominay and Pereira to potentially do different jobs for us in the centre (to varying degrees in terms of quality and/or experience). At what point do we have to accept that another midfield addition isn't going to help us transition quicker and with more quality when we don't have a right winger and our fullbacks cannot bomb on like they used to?I feel that you are being too simplistic, particularly when this issue isn't limited to our defenders but everyone in the team. Everyone on the caf has complained about the lack of availability and passing options provided to the ball carrier and our defenders aren't different, they don't have options when they are on the ball and will be under pressure when pressed because there is no simple exit options other than hoofing it. This comes back to our piss poor midfield organization, the ones that can't create, recycle, press or cover.
I have said it since 2014, in football center midfield is everything if you are not sound in that area everyone else will suffer. If we fix it, we won't complain about attackers not playing like DMs and defenders not being wannabe play makers because it's not there primary roles. It's probably the thing that bothers me the most and why I end up defending Smalling or Martial like I do, for some reason we refuse to point to the most obvious weakness and focus on things that aren't even universal among top teams. We are shit in transition because our midfield is shit, not the players but the actual midfield, it's one of the worst unit I have seen at a big club.
It's not rocket science is it?? All the defensive stats being thrown about as if we have this awesome backline, when in reality De Gea has saved our ass so many times is ridiculous. It really is baffling why people refuse to accept this.It's down to De Gea that our defensive record is passable, how people cant understand this is beyond me. Breaking down our CB's
Bailly - good but injury prone
Lindelof - potentially good but still showing signs of needing to settle
Smalling - ok but certainly not good enough
Jones - see above plus always injured
Rojo - same as above
For a Jose Mourinho team that wants to play counter attacking football the above just isn't good enough
And here you have the problem, it's not about adding players but making the current ones working efficiently, individually there is nothing wrong with our midfielders, the problem is with the way they play as a unit.I don't disagree, our centre midfield unit being off has adversely affected our play at both ends of the field for a long time. However we've added Pogba, Matic and Fred in the past couple of years and we have Herrera and likes of Fellaini, McTominay and Pereira to potentially do different jobs for us in the centre (to varying degrees in terms of quality and/or experience). At what point do we have to accept that another midfield addition isn't going to help us transition quicker and with more quality when we don't have a right winger and our fullbacks cannot bomb on like they used to?
That's a pretty spot on assessment to be fair to the guy.I'm always amazed when posters reveal they don't actually watch us anymore. How anyone could call Smalling shit and then proceed to call Jones 'less shit' and Rojo 'good sometimes' is beyond me.
Sanchez, Lukaku, Pogba and Matic are not good quality right wingers. Neither are Mata, Lingard, Rashford or Martial. The quality of our centre half options simply exceeds that of our options for that position on the right side of attack. Yes we have good players elsewhere, but in terms of problem positions, the right side of attack is clearly the weakest area of our team.Yeah but we don't exactly have the CB equivalent of Sanchez, Lukaku, Pogba, Matic in terms of individual quality and maturity now have we? Also, I don't know how bad Rojo and Bailly are injured, but it seems like currently we're one Phil Jones Phil Jonesing himself away from only having Smalling and Lindelof for the start of the season, with Valencia injured too.
He gave us 4 months of solid football in 4 years. Smalling and Jones are not world class but they are better then that.I wouldn't say he's the weakest but if he could be consistent he'd be a lot better than Smalling and Jones.
Great reply.Another one of these stupid threads?
Goddammit caf, get your shit together.
Well considering how many times he mentioned Zlatan, I doubt he was irrelevant to his plans, and plans in January half way through a season, aren't the same as plans during the summer anyway, so I don't really think it's all that relevant.I would hope Zlatan was irrelevant to his plans - surely he couldn't have expected him to stay beyond this summer?
Martial... well he replaced him with Sanchez after spending half a summer trying to replace him with Perisic so once again, it is doubtful if he was a part of the plan. If there ever was a plan. Though yes, he did mention Martial when he said we wouldn't spend on attacking players. He's been a peripheral figure for a while now though. Replacing a squad player is unlikely to be a huge priority.
Smalling, Jones and Rojo couldn’t lace Bruce or Pally’s boots. None have hit the performance levels or consistency needed to be a great United centre back. Fingers crossed for Bailly and Lindelof. Big season for them both.Strongest position? I don’t think so. Having to rely on Smalling, Jones and Rojo is never a good thing. Smalling and Jones are just not true leaders. Neither could lace Stam, Rio’s or Vidics boots.
Bailly and Linde have promise but also are still learning. We need a leader in there for sure.
Agreed! Would love to see Bailly and Linde given a go together. Just hope Bailly isn’t as injury prone as last year or so. Toby in would be a big plusSmalling, Jones and Rojo couldn’t lace Bruce or Pally’s boots. None have hit the performance levels or consistency needed to be a great United centre back. Fingers crossed for Bailly and Lindelof. Big season for them both.
Agreed, though I'm hopeful Fred will add something new in terms of showing for the ball, carrying it and passing it forwards effectively there's no doubt our midfield could and should have been working better as a unit between phases before now. Fullbacks and indeed centre backs are a related issue, though separate to the point you're making, but as you said earlier you include right and left wingers as part of the midfield unit (fairly in my view) I would say we need to add a proper right-sided attacker to improve our transition. It's not right that the opposition know we're posing next to no threat down that side when they lose possession.And here you have the problem, it's not about adding players but making the current ones working efficiently, individually there is nothing wrong with our midfielders, the problem is with the way they play as a unit.
Well yeah that is true. But if we are hellbent on doing that then even the quality of the defence doesn't matter that much. That sort of football takes you nowhere even if you have Ferdinand and Vidic at CB.Well considering how many times he mentioned Zlatan, I doubt he was irrelevant to his plans, and plans in January half way through a season, aren't the same as plans during the summer anyway, so I don't really think it's all that relevant.
I also don't think it matters who you have in attack if you don't try to pass the ball to them, which has been the bigger problem and has also been the problem throughout pre-season.
I also don't think our defence is that great considering how much defending we seem intent on doing.
He's alright, but the difference between him and say Lindelof isn't that significant really - he's not exactly Bonucci now is he? And Liverpool were already playing exciting attacking football before they signed him in Jan (while they mostly used Lovren and Matip).Van Dijk is better with the ball at his feet than any of our centre backs.
Disagree. We need to improve both full back positions, which makes us so predictable up front. Our wing play is shite, because the full backs can't contribute enough going forward. We have plenty of wide forwards who can score loads, including Lukaku, but without the support of top notch full backs we can't really exploit their qualities.68 goals last season. We have to improve our forward line. A goalscoring right winger is needed.
Both fullback positions? Valencia and Dalot who Jose called the best in his group is enough.Disagree. We need to improve both full back positions, which makes us so predictable up front. Our wing play is shite, because the full backs can't contribute enough going forward. We have plenty of wide forwards who can score loads, including Lukaku, but without the support of top notch full backs we can't really exploit their qualities.
Lindelof hasn't proved anything so far though. Could turn out great, could turn out shite.He's alright, but the difference between him and say Lindelof isn't that significant really - he's not exactly Bonucci now is he? And Liverpool were already playing exciting attacking football before they signed him in Jan (while they mostly used Lovren and Matip).
Would've preferred someone more established and at his peak if we aren't buying a RW. For example Meunier.Both fullback positions? Valencia and Dalot who Jose called the best in his group is enough.
Sure but now that we have I can't see us signing a third RB until a season or so when Valencia is past it.Would've preferred someone more established and at his peak if we aren't buying a RW. For example Meunier.
Hopefully Dalot would come good soon enough.
Or even a creative one who can set up chances for Pogba, Lukaku and co68 goals last season. We have to improve our forward line. A goalscoring right winger is needed.
Think the experienced CB's are the issue here. Jones, Smalling, Rojo, etc. All need selling. Both Lindelof and Bailly aren't experienced CB type Jose is looking at IMO. We need one at the back.Sure but now that we have I can't see us signing a third RB until a season or so when Valencia is past it.
As of now LB and RW are clearly the area that need most strengthening and it's really obvious. Which is what makes this CB obsession so odd. Does Jose think the two CBs he's signed are trash or something?