Why are we dropping the standards for Ole?

[::sonny::]

I only know that in a similar situation Napoli’s president, Mr Aurelio De Laurentiis, have sacked Ancelotti and stopped to give the wages to the players, who currently are not getting their wages (or have been postponed)

I remember also Felix Magath who prepared training session during the night, and forced the players to train during the night

 

[Bestietom]

A player who will do what? What can Longstaff do that is anything remotely special? He gets dropped by Newcastle. A good CM would be in week in week out for someone like Newcastle. Dominating the ball, creating chances, breaking up play. We don't need another side ways passer.

Exactly.

 

[ottosec]

I agree, Fans will accept anyone they think is a little better than what we have got when we should be looking at the best out there. That's how low we have gone now. Longstaff is another who have been mentioned. He wouldn't get near the team in SAF time. I looked at many games from that time and we had better players on the bench then, than we have on the team now.

Unfortunately, the top players that are available have better options than United these days. Clubs that can provide the same money and exposure, but also CL football, a high chance to win trophies, and good managers that can help them improve further.

 

[TrueRed79]

Standards have dropped because nobody at the top gives a shit. It's only the bottom line. Yes Ole is massively out of his depth and needs to go but the Glazers will only care about the bottom line.

Man Utd's share price has suffered its biggest increase in nearly a year. Shares in Manchester United PLC, which trade on the New York Stock Exchange, closed the day at $20.35. This means United’s value is now $3.349bn. #MUFC's share price has rised at 32.75% in the last 3 months

And the football side of things is terrible. We are on a road to nowhere with the Glazers in charge.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

Personally dropped standards based on the quality we have right now. It's a stark contrast to what we used to be. The squad is young and too thin. It's a squad that consists of one world class player and the remaining are either average or potential. When you compare it to Leceister Tottenham Chelsea City and Liverpool I'd say we're the most imbalanced and those teams have better quality and depth than us currently

However we need a coach that knows what he is doing on the pitch because we really don't have intelligent players. They need to be properly coached if they want to function. Ole has coached us to only look dangerous on the counter which is the least intelligent tactic and that is why he has to go.

 

[TRUERED89]

I agree, Fans will accept anyone they think is a little better than what we have got when we should be looking at the best out there. That's how low we have gone now. Longstaff is another who have been mentioned. He wouldn't get near the team in SAF time. I looked at many games from that time and we had better players on the bench then, than we have on the team now.

You're acting like SAF bought world class players every window! Most of the time he bought potential not ready made stars. Many total flops (I don't need to list them), so no need to try and re-write history!

 

[Bestietom]

You're acting like SAF bought world class players every window! Most of the time he bought potential not ready made stars. Many total flops (I don't need to list them), so no need to try and re-write history!

You never forget the history mate. And SAF always got 110% from his players.

 

[momo83]

Started with Moyes. LVG raises them again on the footballing side but many were too blind to see, Mourinho raised it results wise until his breakdown,, now we have someone who if he wasn’t a legend of a player would be the face of every meme to define stupidity, failure, cluelessness

 

[Snuffkin]

Too much faith in Pogba and Martial. Neither have ever indicated they are capable of consistent good form. If Ole goes, it will be due to too much faith. His legacy will be great young players.

 

[TRUERED89]

You never forget the history mate. And SAF always got 110% from his players.

Always? Like Obertan, Bebe, Diouff, Forlan, Bellion, Chadwick, Bosnich, Manucho, Poborsky, Tosic, Djemba-Djemba, Taibi, Kleberson and several others! Some shite one's like Anderson and Cleverly who won PL's I'll leave out.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Too much faith in Pogba and Martial. Neither have ever indicated they are capable of consistent good form. If Ole goes, it will be due to too much faith. His legacy will be great young players.

Yet he managed Lingard and Pogba , so he is partly responsible for how they are. Maybe too many cuddles and pats on the back, rather than bringing down to earth once in a while.

 

[ColvaleGoa]

I think our inability to be decisive in the transfer window seems to be the reason everyone has got upset. Bad results would have been bearable if them upstairs seem to be making an effort to help Strengthen the squad. The fact that it is left threadbare is causing all the concern which just stinks of no ambition!

 

[DomesticTadpole]

I think our inability to be decisive in the transfer window seems to be the reason everyone has got upset. Bad results would have been bearable if them upstairs seem to be making an effort to help Strengthen the squad. The fact that it is left threadbare is causing all the concern which just stinks of no ambition!

Think them upstairs are the major problem at the club, think they have bought a lot of the players and left the managers with no option but to take them or they get nobody. Then going all emotional and giving Ole the job but not backing him. We are a mess and they will destroy the club.

 

[romufc]

You're acting like SAF bought world class players every window! Most of the time he bought potential not ready made stars. Many total flops (I don't need to list them), so no need to try and re-write history!

Everyone only remembers Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez, RVP, Rio etc and seems to forget all the other signings that were made and didn't deliver. Happens to every team, you cannot guarantee success from signings.

However; what I will say is that Fergie bought potential stars but he didnt expect those players to be first team importance, he slowly got them into the team.

As things stand we need 1 or 2 ready made players, even Fergie knew this at times when he bought RVP. The likes of Longstaff would be a good signing if we had 2 first team CM's.

 

[TRUERED89]

Everyone only remembers Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez, RVP, Rio etc and seems to forget all the other signings that were made and didn't deliver. Happens to every team, you cannot guarantee success from signings.

However; what I will say is that Fergie bought potential stars but he didnt expect those players to be first team importance, he slowly got them into the team.

As things stand we need 1 or 2 ready made players, even Fergie knew this at times when he bought RVP. The likes of Longstaff would be a good signing if we had 2 first team CM's.

Exactly! Even Ronaldo was potential! Most of them became big names at United!

 

[Bestietom]

Always? Like Obertan, Bebe, Diouff, Forlan, Bellion, Chadwick, Bosnich, Manucho, Poborsky, Tosic, Djemba-Djemba, Taibi, Kleberson and several others! Some shite one's like Anderson and Cleverly who won PL's I'll leave out.

And all those who won 13 Premierships and many other honours.
You should practice acting your name which is in Capital Letters

 

[romufc]

Exactly! Even Ronaldo was potential! Most of them became big names at United!

He wasn't signed to start straight away, he was brought to replace Beckham but was integrated into the team perfectly from a tricky inconsistent winger to a world beater.

All this talk about we only used to sign potentials is also false because when we were short we bought ready in Saha, even the loan of Larsson. That is what we need now.

 

[romufc]

And all those who won 13 Premierships and many other honours.
You should practice acting your name which is in Capital Letters

On paper players might look crap like the poster suggests. But a true coach develops and gets them playing. Cleverly was a very important part of the midfield. Anderson however bad fans think he is, Fergie used him well.

How many of Liverpool's midfield would we actually want? Fabinho only. the rest are working well as a team.

People need to face the fact that we cannot always have 11 superstars in a team.

 

[Nikelesh Reddy]

We are not...If we fail to qualify for CL and if our performances continue to be this inconsistent,then I think he”ll be gone this summer...I don’t think the club will give him another season if we don’t qualify for the CL,especially when managers like Pochettino are available...

 

[DomesticTadpole]

On paper players might look crap like the poster suggests. But a true coach develops and gets them playing. Cleverly was a very important part of the midfield. Anderson however bad fans think he is, Fergie used him well.

How many of Liverpool's midfield would we actually want? Fabinho only. the rest are working well as a team.

People need to face the fact that we cannot always have 11 superstars in a team.

Of course you can't , but a good coach make average players good, a bad coach makes average players average.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

Do not think dropped standards is a problem for the fans and performance expectations. Sometimes lower expectations help such that you can gain momentum once you perform above it.

Although our problem is the lack of tactical improvement and investment in terms of getting new players in. If standards in training have dropped then it is a massive problem of course.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

You never forget the history mate. And SAF always got 110% from his players.

I love SAF more than anybody but he also had many flop signings.

 

[TRUERED89]

And all those who won 13 Premierships and many other honours.
You should practice acting your name which is in Capital Letters

Ryan Giggs is the only player with 13 PL's actually! Most of them got lucky to even get 1

 

[romufc]

Of course you can't , but a good coach make average players good, a bad coach makes average players average.

Exactly, that is why the likes of McTominay, Lindelof, James all serve a purpose in this team as they will play for the badge rather than think about all the personal accolades and engineer moves away.

In recent times, all our so called big name players give us issues in the transfer window. DDG, PP, Herrera, Lukaku.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Always? Like Obertan, Bebe, Diouff, Forlan, Bellion, Chadwick, Bosnich, Manucho, Poborsky, Tosic, Djemba-Djemba, Taibi, Kleberson and several others! Some shite one's like Anderson and Cleverly who won PL's I'll leave out.

Most of those were very cheap punts, not big signings we were heavily reliant on.

 

[TRUERED89]

He wasn't signed to start straight away, he was brought to replace Beckham but was integrated into the team perfectly from a tricky inconsistent winger to a world beater.

All this talk about we only used to sign potentials is also false because when we were short we bought ready in Saha, even the loan of Larsson. That is what we need now.

Never said "only" but 90% of SAF's signings were potential! some worked out spectacularly well and some didn't! He wasn't like Jose constantly looking for ready made quick fixes.

 

[Bestietom]

Ryan Giggs is the only player with 13 PL's actually! Most of them got lucky to even get 1

So Leicester won the Premiership , but does that make them all lucky.

 

[TRUERED89]

Most of those were very cheap punts, not big signings we were heavily reliant on.

In todays ludicrous football market, some of those guys wouldn't have been "cheap punts" today. Also that reinforces the point that SAF searched for good price potential. Not expensive stars!

 

[TRUERED89]

So Leicester won the Premiership , but does that make them all lucky.

The players I listed wouldn't get in the Leicester team of 2016 at all! So again those guys were lucky to have SAF and even 1 PL medal!

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

You're acting like SAF bought world class players every window! Most of the time he bought potential not ready made stars. Many total flops (I don't need to list them), so no need to try and re-write history!

Never said "only" but 90% of SAF's signings were potential! some worked out spectacularly well and some didn't! He wasn't like Jose constantly looking for ready made quick fixes.

90%?

Bruce, Hughes, Leighton, McClair, Pallister, Cantona, Yorke, Stam, Blanc, Evra, Irwin, Cole, Sheringham, RVP, Berbatov, Owen, Hargreaves, Ferdinand, Tevez, Carrick, Parker, Webb, Keane, Ince.

Should I carry on another silly game here?

 

[Bestietom]

The players I listed wouldn't get in the Leicester team of 2016 at all! So again those guys were lucky to have SAF and even 1 PL medal!

They still got a PL medal mate, and Liverpool have been trying for 30 years now. Maybe they should have bought some of those players you listed.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

The players I listed wouldn't get in the Leicester team of 2016 at all! So again those guys were lucky to have SAF and even 1 PL medal!

SAF built teams, THEN introduced potential. Massive massive difference.
First and foremost the talent, potential or low risk signing has a much higher chance of succeeding when playing in a good side full of top experienced players.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

90%?

Bruce, Hughes, Leighton, McClair, Pallister, Cantona, Yorke, Stam, Blanc, Evra, Irwin, Cole, Sheringham, RVP, Berbatov, Owen, Hargreaves, Ferdinand, Tevez, Carrick, Parker, Webb, Keane, Ince.

Should I carry on another silly game here?

I got a reply via PM.

antona, RVP, Rio, Berba, Yorke, Cole, Sherri, Keane (became much bigger at United), possibly Ince too. I'll agree. But did the rest not become bigger and house hold names whilst at United?

Blanc? Nahh.. Evra no one knew.. Hargrevaes ? hmmm! Carrick was good but no one was jumping for joy when he signed him!

How misinformed.

No-one knew Evra, the best left back in the Champions League that season that literally had just played in the CL final.

Blanc, well come on man.

Hargreaves was England’s best player in the tournament before and was a starting player for Bayern Munich ffs.

Carrick, playing for Spurs as Jol’s most important player.

Keane was wanted by every side in the country.

I’ve no idea why I’m replying to such idiocy and a guy who’s daft enough to think SAF signed 90% potential.

 

[Strelok]

It's not only for Ole but any manager who comes to us now tbh, except Klopp and Pep imo. Those two names will of course give us some huge expectation again but everyone else? Doubt it I think.

The reality is we're in a shit state, crap squad, worse structure with Ed on top, and greedy owners who only care about profits.

We were living in the delusional land under SAF, and got woke up to face the brutal reality with Moyes, LVG and Jose. It was a shock with Moyes, then the disappointment and expectation just gradually decreased with LVG and Jose. To a point I think it's safe to say we're now pretty used to disappointment and low expectation. Thus the lower standards.

What else we could do anyway. Refuse the reality and continue to live in a delusional dream that Utd is still a big powerhouse, great squad, well run club?

 

[DomesticTadpole]

SAF built teams, THEN introduced potential. Massive massive difference.
First and foremost the talent, potential or low risk signing has a much higher chance of succeeding when playing in a good side full of top experienced players.

Exactly. All this sign this young player, sign that young player. Young players need guidance, our young players in the past all had world class experience players round them in crucial positions on the pitch. A completely young side will just flounder for years. We need experienced top class midfielder and an experienced striker to guide the rest, I presume he thinks Maguire is the experience at the back, I am not sure that he doesn't still need some help and DDG is not forceful enough, could you imagine him and Victor with Big Pete yelling in their ears?

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Exactly. All this sign this young player, sign that young player. Young players need guidance, our young players in the past all had world class experience players round them in crucial positions on the pitch. A completely young side will just flounder for years. We need experienced top class midfielder and an experienced striker to guide the rest, I presume he thinks Maguire is the experience at the back, I am not sure that he doesn't still need some help and DDG is not forceful enough, could you imagine him and Victor with Big Pete yelling in their ears?

Next reply from him fits in well here:

You get offended quite easily don't you? instead of insulting, just debate with me.. Okay Blanc was a world cup winner, Carrick/Evra had a great season prior to joining, 90% is too high but imo SAF wasn't your typical cheque book manager!

When SAF had weaknesses, he’d often fill it with an experienced player and get the cheque book out.
Once he had a strong team he had no problems taking a punt.

He wasn’t a cheque book manager like Mourinho no, but he also wasn’t naive enough to just focus on youth. He’d always buy players to set the standards for the potential and youth.

Regarding the offended comment, no, but I’m so tired of the miserable excuses for our 38% win percentages or the daft comparisons to SAF and Klopp’s start, not only did both have miles better first seasons, they were proven top drawer managers.

The stupidy needs to stop, back Ole to the hilt if you must be at least admit it’s generally done on blind faith alone.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

Because it's been done very very gradually. Ole is saying very similar things to Moyes, which was completely unacceptable back in 2013, yet accepted now.

We are basically Arsenal now. We'd celebrate a top 4 finish.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

We dropped our standards by hiring Ole.

 

[reddevil80]

Looking at a lot of points and views on this particular forum and there is a lot of belief in the managers being cheque book managers or ones that only bought potential and youth or just looking for quick fixes.

I would like to say that SAF bought potential whilst having experienced players on the pitch, commanders and organisers and battlers. Atkinson did it to an extent, LVG brought a little better football after what Moyes brought with him and JM, well, we all know about him and his philosophy.

The big issue I see with OGS, is that he is trying to tighten the defence, bring through the youth, buy in potential and try to shore up the midfield; however, ther is nobody in the middle of the being an organiser, commander or battler. We are relying on the likes of Pogba, or Matic or Mctominay to provide these skillsets but none of them have them. Mctominay has, again this word, potential and does battle and can command and rally the troops, I can see him being the fulcrum for OGS but he has no-one else to turn to.

At the moment, Ole looks like a pinball bouncing between the defensive job and restructure, the midfield jobs and restructures whilst also hoping for the forwards to do what comes naturally with restructuring and on the pitch, he doesn't have a general and he desperately needs it. We as fans desperately need it too. Make no mistake, under the current run of results I want him gone but if he can get a general on the pitch asap, he might stand a chance.

 

[SteveTheRed]

Because it's been done very very gradually. Ole is saying very similar things to Moyes, which was completely unacceptable back in 2013, yet accepted now.

We are basically Arsenal now. We'd celebrate a top 4 finish.

I never get this criticism. What do we want our managers to say? that we will win the league next year? We will go unbeaten all year or that finishing 4th is a failure and the players should be ashed. That's the United way , just say how great we are and lie.

Ole has to deal with the hand he has got. He can put requests in and ask to buy this and that player to improve us but it's not all going to happen instantly, negotiations take time and quite frankly the players who will improve our team have better offers.