They're frightened of FIFA. Every single country is frightened of what they might lose.
World Cup 2018 & 2022 bids
- Thread starter Cal?
- Start date
Thanks for the clarifying Sir Matt.
Its an asymmetric system, resulting from a desire to be too democratic. Its okay to imagine that 100 million people can each have a vote for their politicians, and just one vote. But even democracies are usually designed to protect a minority from overpower of majorities. When you have a situation where England, US, Germany, France, Brazil, etc. are individually the same as San Marino... it doesn't work.
What's happened at FIFA is that if you're an FA trying to behave decently, you're the minority, and there's no protection offered. And it just happens that the countries in this situation right now are some of the largest footballing nations. I don't see how it isn't in their best interest to at least threaten a breakaway, and maybe even go through with it.
Right now they're letting themselves be subject to a bunch of thugs, not realizing the power they really have.
Its an asymmetric system, resulting from a desire to be too democratic. Its okay to imagine that 100 million people can each have a vote for their politicians, and just one vote. But even democracies are usually designed to protect a minority from overpower of majorities. When you have a situation where England, US, Germany, France, Brazil, etc. are individually the same as San Marino... it doesn't work.
What's happened at FIFA is that if you're an FA trying to behave decently, you're the minority, and there's no protection offered. And it just happens that the countries in this situation right now are some of the largest footballing nations. I don't see how it isn't in their best interest to at least threaten a breakaway, and maybe even go through with it.
Right now they're letting themselves be subject to a bunch of thugs, not realizing the power they really have.
Montserrat has a population of less than 5,000. It is on the same level that the US with 300m, China 1.3bn, India 1.2bn. The latter don't matter in international football at the moment, but Brazil has 190m people and carries the same weight as Montserrat. Really?
How is that fair? Yes, they should get some money from FIFA to benefit their football team, but they will never make the World Cup. They don't even make it to the serious qualification rounds for it in Concacaf or the Gold Cup. It looks nice and makes you feel all warm and fuzzy, but all it does is ensure that people like Blatter will stay in power.
How is that fair? Yes, they should get some money from FIFA to benefit their football team, but they will never make the World Cup. They don't even make it to the serious qualification rounds for it in Concacaf or the Gold Cup. It looks nice and makes you feel all warm and fuzzy, but all it does is ensure that people like Blatter will stay in power.
Ok so to the people who think that giving 1 vote to each country is not a fair system, what do you propose?
One way to start would be never to have simultaneous votes again. Most of the shadiness surrounding 2018 and 2022 was a direct result of having two campaigns at the same time. That allowed collusion(despite what FIFA may tell you) and corruption to run rampant.
Holding individual campaigns for World Cups would be a start, but FIFA needs fundamental changes in terms of policing and anti-corruption mechanisms. As it stands, if you're in Blatter's good graces, you'll never have to worry about anything. If there were adequate measures to prevent collusion and corruption, votes for World Cups and officials would be much more transparent and democratic. The ExCo wouldn't be so bad if it weren't so corrupt. I'll have to think more about the process to come up with a better voting format though. You could have a combination of the ExCo and the Congress so that proper footballing nations wouldn't be underrepresented and tiny hamlets wouldn't wield unreasonable power.
Holding individual campaigns for World Cups would be a start, but FIFA needs fundamental changes in terms of policing and anti-corruption mechanisms. As it stands, if you're in Blatter's good graces, you'll never have to worry about anything. If there were adequate measures to prevent collusion and corruption, votes for World Cups and officials would be much more transparent and democratic. The ExCo wouldn't be so bad if it weren't so corrupt. I'll have to think more about the process to come up with a better voting format though. You could have a combination of the ExCo and the Congress so that proper footballing nations wouldn't be underrepresented and tiny hamlets wouldn't wield unreasonable power.
A voting system where what a country has done for football counts:
Every WC worth 100pts, every continenal championship worth 50pts, professional league 50pts, etc...
so basically Brazil (with a bit of help from Italy and Germany) get to choose who hosts the WC everytime?
How about giving more votes to countries that have qualified the most, or teams that have made the top four in the tournament get more votes.
Kinda like the US electoral vote where states with a higher population count more in the polls but in this case countries with a history of at least getting somewhere in the tournament have more votes.
Imagine if some top countries boycotted just one of these world cups right before qualifyers? Granted Blatter would be thrilled with England out,but add a Brazil and they would cave.
You can't compare what you're saying with the US electoral system, as one is muuuuuuch fairer!
For starters it's pure elitism. Second of all who gets the prestige from Yugoslavias illustrious history? How about the recent Serbia and Montenegro split, are they both dropped to having less say than North Korea who have qualified more?
Basing a democratic election on population centres is fair enough in determining national leaders, basing sporting leadership on who keeps most of the big boys happy is hugely unfair.
It reminds me of Bush Gore in 2000. Just a bad taste.
Better than Blatter & his cronnis getting to choose.
Nice in theory but a nightmare to work out in practice and get all countries to agree on it.
The vote yesterday showed that there is very little will to go against FIFA, many countries are too scared of what they might lose and England stand on their own in chucking stones at Blatter (and it has been like that for sometime now as well).
Not really - especially since one of the Blatter's cronies is the top guy in Brazil - you would be putting the power into the hands of even fewer people which is actually worse than what we have at the moment!
The one vote per country thing sounds pretty good to me. Makes it harder for corruption for a couple reasons. Firstly you'd have to bribe more people and bribing more people = more money. Secondly (and more importantly imo) the more people you approach the more likely to be caught out you are.
England will never get the WC in my life time. They are have far too many enemies.
In theory, not reality.
More people who don't require as much money as the ExCo are used too means less money for more power.
Don't know if this has already been posted or not but there is a quote today in the press from the head of the Argentinian(?) FA Julio Grondona which goes "with the English bid I said: 'Let us be brief. If you give us back the Falkland Islands, which belong to us, you will get my vote'. They then became sad and left."
I mean wtf? What's the point of the bids if the members voting are voting purely with their own bias. That's fecking disgraceful, why are these egits serving.
I mean wtf? What's the point of the bids if the members voting are voting purely with their own bias. That's fecking disgraceful, why are these egits serving.
Problem is you'll probably get countries being whipped into line by their regional association in return for future concessions, getting to host regional tournaments etc, so for example most of the CONCACAF votes end up controlled by Jack Warner.
Don't be ignorant. It would cost pennies to convince a tiny country to vote for you. All you need to do is focus on all the small countries who'd happily take 50,000 pounds. Get them and you win. Whereas bribing a larger country would cost you ten times as much.
Added to that, it's the poor countries who are more willing to act in a corrupt way - look at Africa's footballing problems.
On top of that, sociology has proved that rarely do individuals work independently. They gather together and look out for each other. No risk for you when you know if one member of the group rats you out because you have just as much ammo to rat him out.
The fairest system is one built on how much a FA puts into FIFA. if you are earning the organization money, if you are offering to host events, if you are helping other countries, etc than you deserve more of the pie.
It has to be a weighted vote or votes based on federations. Power should reside in the Federations, not FIFA. much like debate in the US - power to the nation or states?
so a lot of people have assumed that England's bid lost because of corruption etc but our own internal investigations shows that we made major mistakes with the bid.
Unsuprisingly the blame is mostly on the FA:
Unsuprisingly the blame is mostly on the FA:
BBC Sport - Report criticises 2018 bid team's campaign groundwork
A report by MPs into England's failed bid to host the 2018 World Cup says the Football Association has failed to learn lessons from previous attempts.
The England bid received only two votes as the finals were awarded to Russia.
The report says: "England's bid team appears to have lacked a number of the components of a successful bid."
A report by MPs into England's failed bid to host the 2018 World Cup says the Football Association has failed to learn lessons from previous attempts.
The England bid received only two votes as the finals were awarded to Russia.
The report says: "England's bid team appears to have lacked a number of the components of a successful bid."
Australia spent 10 million Aussie dollars, twice as much as England did on their bid. Article
Australia, have lost out big time by what happened. Under current rules nations can't host a world cup within 2 world cups of the last time it was held in that confederation, (10 years to make it clear). Many thought that China where going to get 2026, but they cannot now host a world cup until 2034 under current rules. So if Chine win 2034 Australia won't be able to host a world cup until 2046.
America have a big chance here, no one from UEFA of AFC (Europe or Asia) will be able to bid for the next world cup in all likelihood. I'd be amazed if it doesn't return there. Meanwhile the clock for the world cup to return to Western Europe keeps ticking. It will have been 24 years if Western Europe get it in 2030, yet before 2006 they had held the world cup every 8 years since 1954, and then they got 2 in a row.
This all assumes that there is no 2014 revolution.
Australia, have lost out big time by what happened. Under current rules nations can't host a world cup within 2 world cups of the last time it was held in that confederation, (10 years to make it clear). Many thought that China where going to get 2026, but they cannot now host a world cup until 2034 under current rules. So if Chine win 2034 Australia won't be able to host a world cup until 2046.
America have a big chance here, no one from UEFA of AFC (Europe or Asia) will be able to bid for the next world cup in all likelihood. I'd be amazed if it doesn't return there. Meanwhile the clock for the world cup to return to Western Europe keeps ticking. It will have been 24 years if Western Europe get it in 2030, yet before 2006 they had held the world cup every 8 years since 1954, and then they got 2 in a row.
This all assumes that there is no 2014 revolution.
2030 will be the centenary World Cup, from what I've heard, there's an expectation that it will go back to Uruguay, with Argentina co-hosting it. I wouldn't bank on this rotation system lasting that long though, FIFA will change it in accordance with their needs. The previous rotation system only lasted for 4 World Cups and missed out two Confederations.
That would make a lot of sense, I don't know if that will happen though even without all the corruption stuff. The World Cup is too big to just give out to a nation based on a semblance of history.
I cannot see why any of the leagues would go along with it, or their sponsors or broadcasters.
The World Cup being in winter, I'm not that bothered about. But what will happen to the Confederations Cup, how will all the qualifiers be finished a year before, and how many Domestic Seasons will it affect.
Either Fifa change the rules of there will be a AFC split with China wanting the World Cup before 2034. Also, with the East Asian becoming increasingly upset with the Middle Eastern countries, there will be enough support from Japan & Korea to make it happen.
There is still every chance that China will go head to head with USA for 2026.
Only if the rules are changed.
No chance the Premier League, La Liga & co will take this lying down. Unless Fifa agree to something big (getting rid of friendlies or something), it won't happen.
Like I said, a rule change or a AFC split, both could happen.
It must take a lot of hard work to become quite so detached from how the players, clubs and, most importantly, the supporters thin about football.
When Platini came in, I was optimistic that he would actually be a force for good, but he's just gradually turning into a mini-Blatter.
This is from an interview with Plattini.
Platini, who has been head of Europe's football governing body for six years, says he "will fight" for the 2022 World Cup in Qatar to be held in winter.
"We have to play the World Cup at the best moment to stage the World Cup," he said.
"It's 50C in the summer in Qatar. If we do not change the date, there are countries that will never receive the World Cup."
I dont know about others but for me the World Cup is a summer thing, holdings it in the winter is just wrong.
If there are countries that cant hold the World Cup because it is too hot, so what !
Here is the rest of the interview
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21135626
Platini, who has been head of Europe's football governing body for six years, says he "will fight" for the 2022 World Cup in Qatar to be held in winter.
"We have to play the World Cup at the best moment to stage the World Cup," he said.
"It's 50C in the summer in Qatar. If we do not change the date, there are countries that will never receive the World Cup."
I dont know about others but for me the World Cup is a summer thing, holdings it in the winter is just wrong.
If there are countries that cant hold the World Cup because it is too hot, so what !
Here is the rest of the interview
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21135626
Does Qatar have a pro league yet?
Everything about this situation is a complete clusterfeck.
Everything about this situation is a complete clusterfeck.
Blatter will be long gone by then, leaving his successor to unfeck the Qatar summer heat issue.
They'll just put Platini in charge.
Then the league games would be played at night over the summer in Portugal, Spain and Italy when the temperatures reach the 40's? About the CL games? Platini is part of that corrupt system called FIFA.
I would be shocked if these allegations were true
Platini said that it was all "speculation" and that he'd sue people for questioning his integrity in the vote.
It's probably something lost in translation, but saying "this is only speculation" isn't exactly a denial. It's basically just saying "they're speculating, but I won't say I did or didn't."
It's probably something lost in translation, but saying "this is only speculation" isn't exactly a denial. It's basically just saying "they're speculating, but I won't say I did or didn't."
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/03/27/uk-usa-fbi-soccer-idUKBRE92Q11620130327
Apparently the FBI have rolled Jack Warner's son.
Apparently the FBI have rolled Jack Warner's son.
If nobody wants it, they should just draw it, like the draw of death
I'm sure some mad power hungry ruler of the third world country would want the exposure of world cup either way
I'm sure some mad power hungry ruler of the third world country would want the exposure of world cup either way
the votes were cast on the understanding it would be played in the summer. It should be played then or they should drop qatar and re-vote. Change the rules first (allow winters) and dates become part of the submission process. Qatar can even submit. Honestly twatini/bladder its not difficult.