Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[Nou_Camp99]

Get Poch in for January. Let him make 1/2 signings and start building towards next season. Ole is simply not good enough. His decisions are costing us points. Playing 3 at back was a disaster. Then when we rescued it he took Martial off and it cost us the game as it invited pressure.

Seen enough now. He's not the man for us. Time to spin the wheel again or accept our midtable future.

 

[Anders Agnalt]

 

[GBBQ]

Not a manager in the workd would change United in one year. Its like taking Hull to PL gold in 2 seasons!

Why is this an argument for keeping Ole? I would imagine that most people who want Ole out realise that to get back to title challenging ways is going to take a few seasons considering how well Liverpool and City have been doing recently.

But even still, to think there is no room for improvement in the short term is also ridiculous. Look at Leicester and the impact Rodgers has had on them in less than a year.

We're too quick to defend Ole because he is a club legend or because we want to blame everything on Woodward and the Glazers but the truth is we have Wolves, Burnley and Sheffield United ahead of us; teams that would kill to have our players at their disposal. Teams with managers who set up to play to their strengths, with a tactical identity and a team spirit.

 

[devilish]

That third goal was bad defending by multiple players, but their first and second was feck ups from midfield.

Ole got it wrong starting with a back 3, but considering we had to play Jones, Pereira and Fred in midfield, getting some extra bodies in there to counter their high press seemed like a decent enough idea before kick off imo. Having Pogba out for so long is bad enough, but when Scott is injured to we simply dont have a midfield. Fred has been alright the last couple of games, but he has to show a lot more, Pereira is just overall poor and not suited as a CM and Jones is Jones

First half was probably a seasonal worst, but that was not only down to tactics, we were simply not up for it and players not able to string more than two passes together is not only down to tactics. We simply could not handle their high press and could not hold onto the ball for more than 30 seconds, which in turn invited massive pressure on our back line

Still, the fact that we managed to get back from 0-2 down away from home gives me hope. Compared to the abject shite we saw vs Everton away last season or even West Ham and Newcastle this season thats a step in the right direction.

Well let's agree to disagree then. I think we've been tactically outclassed by Sheffield and only got the result because Ole became desperate and went gung-ho. This is not the first time the so called manager got outclassed by an average manager with a worse side then ours.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

I just don’t get some of the fans on here. For clarity I’m ‘Ole in’ for the time being although I believe my vote is currently on “Sack”. I get people on the ‘Ole out’ brigade but all of it seems to be so hypocritical:

• We wanted rid of the likes of Sanchez, Matic, and other deadwood - Ole is doing this. First thing was selling Fellaini, then got rid of Sanchez, Lukaku, Darmian, Valencia. Granted Herrera went but that was out of his hands and we all agreed Andre was not worth 300+kpw.
• Matic is nowhere to be seen which most have been crying out for and looks like could be going in January
• Ashley Young looks to be starting to be fazed out and with his contract out this summer I’d expect him to leave.
• Youngsters have been given a chance - Williams is a break-out star so far, Axel was given a chance til he got hurt, Greenwood is getting more chances. We all know Gomes should be getting more mins but there has to be BTS stuff going on with that.
• You can’t argue McT is far more of an influence on the team than when Jose had him purely as a shackled DM.
• His signings have made a difference (those looking only at today’s performance, look who they had in front of them, absolutely zero protection)

The issue that has derailed all of this is injuries. No, we weren’t playing great before there started but for a big chunk of the season so far we have been missing:

• Our most creative player by far
• Our most natural finisher
• Our 1st choice LB
• Now we’re missing McT for a few weeks

The spine of a team consists of 6 players; GK, CBs, CMs, and ST and for the majority of this season we’ve had two of those 6 missing. Now this would be difficult for most teams but with a thread-bare squad as it is it has only exacerbated the situation. I mean c’mon, who would get a coherent tune out of Fred and Pereira as starting CMs?

We add a couple on loan til the summer (unless true targets become available) add 3-5 players in the summer (last year concentrated on defence, this summer midfield & RW - I would say we need a DM to replace Matic, a CM to add depth and a #10 to ease the burden from (or replace if worst case) Pogba.

We do this, next season will be better - or we can just get Poch and hit the reset button again.

Spot on, the lunacy of wanting to start again is staggering to me. At least give a manager a full season you fickle fecks!

 

[JSW Devil]

Spot on, the lunacy of wanting to start again is staggering to me. At least give a manager a full season you fickle fecks!

If your driving down a dead end road you need to go all the way to the end to make sure do you?

 

[Judas]

Spot on, the lunacy of wanting to start again is staggering to me. At least give a manager a full season you fickle fecks!

Don't complain when our talented players want out, look disinterested, and we're having to shop in the bargain bin the transfer windows.

 

[Zhadow]

Spot on, the lunacy of wanting to start again is staggering to me. At least give a manager a full season you fickle fecks!

Start again from what? We don't even play in a regular system to build on. Lunacy is to continue this path even if we all can see that it isn't working. Hoping that it will klick in a year or two isn't how a top club works. A top club rebuilds and fights for trophies at the same time. Ole isn't the biggest problem at Man Utd, but he is one. And sadly for him it is the easiest problem to fix. I don't even want Poch in right now. I want a caretaker till summer and then the best possible manager to take over. If it is Poch, great. If it is another coach, also good. But Ole is clearly done and not good enough for us. And nothing will change that.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

Don't complain when our talented players want out, look disinterested, and we're having to shop in the bargain bin the transfer windows.

Any player that wants out should be shown where the door is asap and players that want to play for the club, the manager and the fans either promoted or recruited.

 

[Judas]

It's the illogical view to back someone so clearly out of his depth that I don't get. I'm all for giving a manager time, but you have to be seeing something, you can't just back someone for backing someones sake.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

Start again from what? We don't even play in a regular system to build on. Lunacy is to continue this path even if we all can see that it isn't working. Hoping that it will klick in a year or two isn't how a top club works. A top club rebuilds and fights for trophies at the same time. Ole isn't the biggest problem at Man Utd, but he is one. And sadly for him it is the easiest problem to fix. I don't even want Poch in right now. I want a caretaker till summer and then the best possible manager to take over. If it is Poch, great. If it is another coach, also good. But Ole is clearly done and not good enough for us. And nothing will change that.

Did you read any of @Jericholyte2 post and not agree with any of it or are you just set in your opinion and not willing to see any of the good things that have clearly been done?

 

[fergiesarmy1]

If your driving down a dead end road you need to go all the way to the end to make sure do you?

There is no sign so you only know it’s a dead end if in your analogy we have been there before. You want to fire Ole and probably end up on the same path again.

 

[Bilbo]

It's the illogical view to back someone so clearly out of his depth that I don't get. I'm all for giving a manager time, but you have to be seeing something, you can't just back someone for backing someones sake.

Maybe people are seeing something that you are not - does that thought ever occur to you?

 

[Judas]

Maybe people are seeing something that you are not - does that thought ever occur to you?

What you seeing then buddy? Because all I see is people saying he needs more time, he needs the season, we can't keep changing managers. Or they'll speak about the signings. The signings mean bugger all when the performances and results continue to be rancid. What's the point of good signings, if you can't manage players anyway.

 

[Rista]

Getting a competent manager to replace someone who is out of his depth is not a "reset" button. It's a ridiculous argument that has no basis in reality.

If 'Ole in' people were honest with themselves and considered for a second if they would still think he's the man for the job if he wasn't a club legend, they would see they are wrong and that we're getting nowhere with OGS in charge. No neutral fan thinks he is good enough, I wonder why.

 

[Bobcat]

Top 4 is impossible with Ole in charge and top six is unlikely. This will be our worst ever Premier League season and there’s no valid reason for it just excuses.

The Klopp and Pep comparisons are irrelevant not just because Ole is nowhere near as good but in their first full seasons, same as Ole is in now they finished in top 4. It’s time to move on to the next comparison/excuse now.

Moyes got 7th and both LvG and Jose got 5th in one of their seasons in charge, considering we are 2 points off 5th, thats not a crisis is it? The difference is that Ole is putting out very young starting XI's and is the first one since Fergie who actually seems to think about the future and just not the here and now.

The last 7 games we have won 5 and drawn 2, one against the reigning European Champions and now after being 0-2 down away from home. That's progress, and that is with our best player injured the entire time and yet another CM out yesterday. No matter who is in charge, the fact is this squad is paper thin and is always just one or two injuries away from a massive drop in quality.

We were in the position that we needed to get rid of a lot of players (5-7 at least), but also needed to get in new ones and that cant be done in one window. Considering we lost two CM's and a CF and have yet to replace them cant only be blamed on Ole. The squad is in dire need of investment and any PL team and any manager would struggle if they had to play Jones, Pereria and Fred in midfield. Pereira and Jones are getting scores of 1-3/10 in most papers today and rightly so. They are fecking terrible and the fact that we have to resort to players like these says a lot about the state of our squad

Results have been bad yes, but i am more concerned about what is happening long term and here Ole is doing fine. His transfers have been very good, hes giving chances to the likes of Williams and Greenwood and has frozen out dinosaurs like Mata and Matic. If the board puts their money where their mouth is and gives him funds to get a CM and and maybe Haaland in January then we might finish the season a lot stronger than we have started it. Everyone was moaning when Jose kept putting out old first XI's and kept going for short term fixes in the market. People wanted youth and they wanted us to buy for the future. Ole is doing that and still people are moaning because we've had some rough results.

Despite the shite results the players still back him. If we sack him now, how would they respond? If we get say Poch and the players dont warm up to him straight away, things might actually get worse and then he gets sacked as well and we repeat this ad infinitum.

 

[Judge Red]

Williams, Greenwood and Rashford on the score sheet gives Ole some credit. We knew what needed to be done this season and we knew it might not be pretty.

But even if we stick with Ole and things improve, it’s all too apparent that the ceiling isn’t very high. The very best we can hope for under him next season is a top four finish. And the season after that.

 

[Mainoldo]

Well, United was an average team last time they met. Tottenham was a top 4 team. Who came out on top?
Liverpool was a number one team last they met, United was on lower half who came out on top?
People sitting on their sofa ain't better managers, but they think they know better then everyone else!

Give Klopp, Pep, Poch and OGS the same average team and OGS would win that game 9/10 times. Building a team that agressive needs time, only problem is half the United supporters wants quick patches, not building for the years to come!

I really hope the board gives this project time! Not a manager in the workd would change United in one year. Its like taking Hull to PL gold in 2 seasons!

What game was this? Not the game where we had a team that finished second and they had a team that finished 4th?

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

Imagine if we swap situations with Liverpool. We have a world class coach and we're are topping the table while Liverpool has Gerard who has shown no tactical ability and they are in 9th place. Ole in people would be among the people laughing their asses off at the Liverpool fans that says they should keep Gerrard because he has got three signings right and understands the club.

I'm getting sick of hearing Ole has got three signings right and he understands the club. Mate this is what a DOF can do. Ole's main job as a coach is to be tactically sound and show a style of play even if he is coaching a bunch of average players. That's how you know a good coach. I'm not talking about the results. I'm talking about our game play. For a team that is rebuilding we should overlook results and focus more on our style of play and It has been dogshit. And that's on the coach.

If we're so paranoid that sacking Ole means we would be disrupting our long term rebuild then what we need is a proper DOF and a coach that's tactically sound to give us an identity. I'd feel much more confident that our club is in the right hands if we get a DOF - Luis Campos and a coach that's tactically sound like Pochettino rather than having just Ole to guide the club back to glory days. We don't just need a new coach. We need a decking DOF and people are forgetting that and focusing on just sacking Ole

 

[dwd]

Seen a few people saying we are 9th when we are actually 10th. Sorry to break the bad news.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

4 defeats in 19 competitive games this season while going through a transition and the team superstar holidaying for most of it.

Been a great run since the Liverpool game also and we remain the only team to have stopped them this season yet everyone still wanting change .

 

[Massive Spanner]

4 defeats in 19 competitive games this season while going through a transition and the team superstar holidaying for most of it.

Been a great run since the Liverpool game also and we remain the only team to have stopped them this season yet everyone still wanting change .

You're the one who said we were going to go on a 10 game winning streak and since you said it we've lost to Bournemouth and drawn yesterday

Also if it's PL only it's 4 defeats, 5 draws and 4 wins in 13 games which is absolutely terrible no matter what way you try sugar coat it by including the Europa and League Cup.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

You're the one who said we were going to go on a 10 game winning streak and since you said it we've lost to Bournemouth and drawn yesterday

Also if it's PL only it's 4 defeats, 5 draws and 4 wins in 13 games which is absolutely terrible no matter what way you try sugar coat it by including the Europa and League Cup.

It’s coming

 

[Massive Spanner]

It’s coming

Yeah keep telling yourself that.

Meanwhile those in the real world will be hoping we can actually go hire a competent manager.

 

[bsCallout]

That just isn’t true though is it. Had Mourinho got a CB and we got a better CM than Fred (which Jose said wasn’t his signing) things would have been a lot better. He was proved right as we just spent £80m on a target he wanted for £70m.

That doesn't change the team that OIe took over though does it? And you're talking if, buts and maybes.

 

[Mark Pawelek]

It doesn't look like Ole can sort out the squad problems. United have an unbalanced squad. With too many squad players who aren't good enough, must step up their performance, or magically get fit and stop suffering perennial injuries. To begin with: Matic, Jones, Rojo, Mata, Pereiera, Lingard, Bailly. This January will be Ole's 2nd chance. Will he sort the squad weaknesses out or go for the shiny, expensive, status signings?

Ole is moving too slowly. His plan seems to be to bring in stars but keep weak or permanently injured squad members. That's senseless. He needs a clear out. A one-off reset. It should've been last summer. Instead we get half a clear out. 7 left but only 4 arrived. Now the squad is missing a:

• striker - alternative to Martial
• proper defensive midfielder
• creative midfielder who starts.

Spending £80m on Maguire last summer was a mistake. He should've kept Smalling. Used the £80m to bring in the 3 players he needed to. More low-key left-field signings like James. I don't think Ole has the strength of will to say no to fans and United influencers who told us Maguire was the only choice, and an essential buy last summer. The fans who are obsessed with getting the biggest, shiniest, new thing to show off to their mates. Pochettino yes. But only if he's give freedom to clear all deadwood out, sign the replacements he wants.

 

[Rooney24]

Its 25 Points in 22 league games since the famous PSG result.

Thats enough on its own. But even without the stark statistic I see Zero sign of improvement, Zero style of play, Zero tactical nous.

People happy and making a case for Ole cos we came from 2 down against Sheff United just shows how far our standards have dropped. We shouldnt be 2 down against them ffs.

 

[Judas]

4 defeats in 19 competitive games this season while going through a transition and the team superstar holidaying for most of it.

Been a great run since the Liverpool game also and we remain the only team to have stopped them this season yet everyone still wanting change .

Fecking get in there! I'm absolutely buzzing. It's coming home. Ole for king.

The overly blind positive stuff is just as bad as the people who refuse to see any positives. You have to be balanced.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

Yeah keep telling yourself that.

Meanwhile those in the real world will be hoping we can actually go hire a competent manager.

Didn’t I say it after the Liverpool draw and it’s now been 5-1-1 - absolutely sackable figures those.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

I get Ole in. He is the first manager and only manager for us so far to have a long term vision and rebuild for the club. But let's not mistake being the first in doing something to being the best at that thing. Sure he gets the club... Sure he has probably had the most impactful signings so far since Ferguson. But that's not his Job or rather it isn't his main job. This is the job of a DOF - long term planning and identifying good transfer targets that fit the plan which is why some have suggested Ole should be a DOF.

However his main job which is to coach a team and see the impact through the style of play on the field, this is what he is failing at. And this is why people want him out. Assuming he succeed in this, not much people will complain. A lot of people have said that since this is a long term rebuild, performance in the field should be rated more than results. But when both performances especially and results are bad this is the coach's fault

So in a nutshell the people that want to keep Ole are only saying this because he has succeeded in what seems like the job of a good DOF - long term planning and identifying players to fit into this long term plan. But he is failing at the major part of his job - implementing a style of play that is visible to us....which is why people want him out.

Isn't it the logical thing to get a coach that's is tactically good with a definite style of play and get a DOF that has a long term vision for the club???? Wasn't this the plan at the beginning when Ole was interim. I think we should go back to that plan

 

[fergiesarmy1]

Fecking get in there! I'm absolutely buzzing. It's coming home. Ole for king.

The overly blind positive stuff is just as bad as the people who refuse to see any positives. You have to be balanced.

It’s certainly better than losing to them which the all conquering legend of Jose and Poch seemed to with regularity.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Didn’t I say it after the Liverpool draw and it’s now been 5-1-1 - absolutely sackable figures those.

Again, here you go talking about the mighty league cup and Europa league group stages against titans such as Partizan. Chelsea was a good result though.

In the league we've 2 wins, a loss, and a draw in that period. The 2 wins were Norwich and Brighton! We looked every bit as rubbish against Bournemouth and Sheffield as we have during any point this season so it's not like we're showing signs of being a better side than we were, either. Just how low can your standards possibly be that you think this constitutes as some wonderful improvement that means Ole is now transforming the team?

Your winning streak and amazing run of form after Pool hasn't happened, your next winning streak probably won't happen either, but keep dreaming about Ole being our savior and not actually being a terrible manager at this level.

 

[DWelbz19]

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[tenpoless]

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But Ole is one of us so We are more inclined to give him the benefit of the doubts.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

Again, here you go talking about the mighty league cup and Europa league group stages against titans such as Partizan. Chelsea was a good result though.

In the league we've 2 wins, a loss, and a draw in that period. The 2 wins were Norwich and Brighton! We looked every bit as rubbish against Bournemouth and Sheffield as we have during any point this season so it's not like we're showing signs of being a better side than we were, either. Just how low can your standards possibly be that you think this constitutes as some wonderful improvement that means Ole is now transforming the team?

Your winning streak and amazing run of form after Pool hasn't happened, your next winning streak probably won't happen either, but keep dreaming about Ole being our savior and not actually being a terrible manager at this level.

I said next 10, if we had won yesterday which should have happened once they got to 3-2 up in injury time it would be 6-0-1, that looks decent in anyone’s view while our “superstar” is playing basketball in Miami

 

[bsCallout]

My concern with Ole out is that I think that the alternative could cause a lot of problems and set us back further.

Until we get a DOF or equivalent I don't want a change in manager as otherwise the whole vision and project changes, again.

DOF then get maybe the Ajax or Redbull Manager.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

But Ole is one of us so We are more inclined to give him the benefit of the doubts.

And ole took over a shitshow while moyes took over the reigning champions....

 

[Bilbo]

What you seeing then buddy? Because all I see is people saying he needs more time, he needs the season, we can't keep changing managers. Or they'll speak about the signings. The signings mean bugger all when the performances and results continue to be rancid. What's the point of good signings, if you can't manage players anyway.

Theres a bigger picture at play here. The squad needed to be rebuilt - it was full of mercenaries, players of insufficient quality, bloated in certain positions and criminally ignored in others. It wasn't a quick fix. People losing their rag game to game are IMO not seeing the picture, and lack patience. We have a young team here. They are going to have good games and bad, but they will get better, and for the first time since Ferguson the club seem to have learnt their lessons and chosen a project for the future. We need this team to peak in 2 seasons time when we will be able to challenge the likes of City & Liverpool without spending £400m in one window - which we are clearly not in a position to do.

This is a long term project to rebuild the squad. I'm willing to let Ole have a chance to plug the gaps in the squad and actually have a chance of success here.

 

[DoomSlayer]

I'm "Ole in", but I have to say, if we don't win against Villa and lose to both City and Spurs, the pressure would be enormous and deservedly so. Even a win against Villa and then 2 losses would be pretty bad.

A win against Tottenham would be a big lift though and a good way to rub it in Mourinho's face, but he would be extremely motivated to feck us over, I'm sure of that. He will use every bit of dirty methods and mind games possible to beat us.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

This is a long term project to rebuild the squad. I'm willing to let Ole have a chance to plug the gaps in the squad and actually have a chance of success here.

But surely you can rebuild whilst showing signs of good coaching?

Or can a manager only be judged after 3 years when a rebuild is complete? Did Klopp not win a Europa League whilst rebuilding and did his side not look miles better at football and coached within a few months?