Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

Sack or Keep OLE?

  • Sack Ole & appoint new coach ASAP

  • Keep Ole & back him to finish rebuild


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Steve 007

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As much as I’m really unhappy with what I’m seeing, I like everything Ole has done off the pitch. I want more in the next window.

His 3 signings are excellent.

He has cleared out a lot of those players who don’t have the ability or desire or both.

Unfortunately we are incredibly short now, but at least we now for the first time in years have a decent defence.

If he did the same to the attack and midfield over the next two windows and moved on Young and Pogba I’d be very happy.

Yes I know we can’t replace Pogba but the guy is everything that is wrong at Man Utd massive ego, high wages and below par inconsistent performances combined with a desire to be elsewhere.

I’m not sure if anyone could fix it in the short term so I’m happy to wait until after the Jan window at least.

My main concern is the banker at the top.
 
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Rafaeldagold

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Has to be keep , we would be stupid to sack him now, OK so the results are not going our way and yes we are a shit team but FFS we have to give him more time that this.
but....why? I really don’t get this view point. I mean it’s nonsensical.

Time for times sake- He needs to go now so we can salvage the season
 

Bobcat

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SAF didn't work with Woodward, who I'm convinced is the main problem. The Glazers won't be an issue if the long-term footballing decisions are made by someone with even a modicum of sense. Just look at our spending to see that we aren't being held back because we don't have money. We definitely have money available, but our idiot CEO is throwing it away at every turn and shifting the blame onto the manager, which has left us with an astronomical net spend and the worst squad we've had in 40 to 50 years.

Firstly, Woodward has hired wildly different managers with wildly differing footballing philosophies. This has left us with a completely mis-matched squad of players suited to completely different styles of football. Moyes to van Gaal to Mourinho to Solskjær is such a scattergun approach to managerial appointments that it's hard to comprehend what the idea is behind it, other than just hiring based on name and reputation (or in Ole's case, feelgood factor) and not at all considering which manager is best suited to get the most out of the squad we have. This has also lead us to spend enormous amounts of money on a host of new players just to get the squad even remotely close to fitting the new manager's vision. Both LvG and Mourinho went mental with spending during their first transfer window. Most of those players have been sold at a loss because they didn't have a place in the next manager's team, weren't good enough or didn't want to be here in the first place.

Secondly, two things are obvious about Woodward: One, he fancies himself some kind of Billy Big Bollocks football scout and will make or veto signings against the manager's wishes, and two, he's clearly absolutely fecking inept at player recruitment, as evidenced by the following:

  • We've spent months chasing big players every summer without moves ever materializing, which has meant that we've ended up panic buying the scraps other teams don't want at an inflated cost at the end of the window. Examples are Thiago, Fabregas, Perisic, Kroos, Sergio Ramos, Alderweireld, Bale, Griezmann, Willian and probably a whole host of others that I've forgotten or suppressed. Some of those sagas went on for the entire summer, and ended up with absolutely nothing in the end. We also messed up at the end of this summer's window by not finding someone to fill the massive hole left by Lukaku.
  • We signed Fellaini at a higher cost than necessary because we waited too long to pull the trigger.
  • We signed Maguire for a record fee this summer after Mourinho was denied the same player (and others) at a lower cost last summer.
  • Woodward signed Fred for a mind-numbing sum of money despite the player clearly not being wanted by Mourinho and never featuring in his plans, which is understandable now considering he'll obviously never be close to the level required of a United player.
  • I'm fairly confident the signings of Di Maria and Sanchez were done because Woodward wanted to do a bit of dick-swinging in the transfer market and not because the managers actually needed or wanted the players, based on how they were utilized after they were signed.
These are just some examples of the footballing side of things being badly run, and they're 100% on Woodward. If we're chasing a player at the start of a window it's because someone at the club has identified the need for that player. Woodward's job is to secure the deal as quickly as possible or move on if it can't be done. That's how well-run clubs do it. If we dry-hump for two months and end up without options that has nothing to do with the manager and everything to do with the guy responsible for closing the deal. If a manager comes in and the squad we have is woefully incompatible with that manager's style it isn't the manager's fault for succeeding a different type of manager. If that manager doesn't get the players he wants and needs to play according to his philosophies and ideas it isn't the manager's fault.

I agree that Ole seems incredibly out of his depth here, but no manager is ever going to succeed here because our club is run in a way that actively prevents even the very best managers from performing. Mourinho said finishing runner-up in the league with us was his greatest achievement. I know he has a tendency to exaggerate, but there's definitely truth to those words, and it's becoming increasingly obvious what he meant by that. At this level of football it's impossible to be the best without everyone pulling in the same direction, and Woodward doesn't have a clue which direction he's supposed to pull.
Great post. If Ole is sacked, Woodward has to go with him. If he survives yet another manager, then we are fecked because we are going nowhere with him as a CEO
 

JK-27

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yes same players but not a shite manager anymore
It's confusing though. When Ole first joined, the results were fantastic. Was that his good management, or the players finally playing to their capability?

When Ole was made permanent manager (and the players wanted this), results turned to shite. Did he suddenly become a poor manager, or did the players stop performing?

What is clear is that all our players have been under performing for several seasons, despite who the manager is. Will a new manager change that?
 

JPRouve

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It's confusing though. When Ole first joined, the results were fantastic. Was that his good management, or the players finally playing to their capability?

When Ole was made permanent manager (and the players wanted this), results turned to shite. Did he suddenly become a poor manager, or did the players stop performing?

What is clear is that all our players have been under performing for several seasons, despite who the manager is. Will a new manager change that?
It's not confusing, the players are different and the tactical set up too. During that run the first XI played a lot at a high intensity, we lost several players to injuries, some were most likely tired because never rested and Ole changed the tactical approach.
 

Caesar2290

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dont agree , who ever we get will have the same players , makes no sense, but we all have a diferant view of things
Are we talking about the same players who less than 12 months ago accumulated more points than City and pool? Or was it the manager then?
 

Mainoldo

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Seriously now, why won't it make a difference. This is aimed at a lot of the forum rather than you.

We'd most likely not find anybody as good as Klopp but which of these did he need the "best owners/CEO in the world " to do for him?
  • Signing a well known player in Mane.
  • Signing Robertson who was again well known across England
  • Signing Firmino who was established in Germany as a quality footballer
  • Signing Chamberlain and Lallana
  • Signing VVD from the same league
  • Coaching the players he does have excellently, developing them and building a collective that plays as per his ideas/vision.
Sure we should replace Ed Woodward with somebody who doesn't make three poor managerial appointments. But we have to face the other inconvenient facts too - that the manager DOES matter and great management would improve us greatly.
Just look at the poll results. A lot of people on the CAF won’t understand this. Had this debate enough times. Solskjaer has had the same summer to Klopp’s first summer.. but it won’t end the same and it’s not a board thing it’s an Ole thing.
 

Strelok

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Before the last match it was like 40 % sack and 60 % keep.

At this rate I can see if Sunday we don't get a good result or at least a good performance the ratio would be reversed quickly :lol:
 
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amolbhatia50k

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Just look at the poll results. A lot of people on the CAF won’t understand this. Had this debate enough times. Solskjaer has had the same summer to Klopp’s first summer.. but it won’t end the same and it’s not a board thing it’s an Ole thing.
To be fair, I hadnt voted because I was a "sack in two months", but I've just voted sack because my view is a near equivalent of sack. Although I'd give him a few months more, I don't see doing enough to changeion by then so I may as well vote.

Thing is, most voting for Ole aren't even doing so because they believe in him but rather because he should be given more time. It's more principal than faith. And that's sad. I'm desparate to see Ole as a good coach but I just dont see it.

If he had performed this season (and carries out throughout the season) as Lampard has started as a coach at Chelsea, I'd 100% be behind him. Out of the two, Lampard is showing more potential. I'd gladly back a manaher who gets us playing good attacking football developing young players regardless of whether we finish 4th of 5th (and that would be giving leeway). But unlike Lampard, whose imprint as visible regardless of results, Ole's are not.
 

Mainoldo

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To be fair, I hadnt voted because I was a "sack in two months", but I've just voted sack because my view is a near equivalent of sack. Although I'd give him a few months more, I don't see doing enough to changeion by then so I may as well vote.

Thing is, most voting for Ole aren't even doing so because they believe in him but rather because he should be given more time. It's more principal than faith. And that's sad. I'm desparate to see Ole as a good coach but I just dont see it.

If he had performed this season (and carries out throughout the season) as Lampard has started as a coach at Chelsea, I'd 100% be behind him. Out of the two, Lampard is showing more potential. I'd gladly back a manaher who gets us playing good attacking football developing young players regardless of whether we finish 4th of 5th (and that would be giving leeway). But unlike Lampard, whose imprint as visible regardless of results, Ole's are not.
Well this is it. It’s not personal and I’m not a fan asking for titles at this stage... but he’s showing me nothing that I believe time can fix. More transfers etc, it’s not going to make a difference. Just like the Moyes appointment. We are hoping on things that can’t be fixed by him.
 

C'est Moi Cantona

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To be fair, I hadnt voted because I was a "sack in two months", but I've just voted sack because my view is a near equivalent of sack. Although I'd give him a few months more, I don't see doing enough to changeion by then so I may as well vote.

Thing is, most voting for Ole aren't even doing so because they believe in him but rather because he should be given more time.
It's more principal than faith. And that's sad. I'm desparate to see Ole as a good coach but I just dont see it.

If he had performed this season (and carries out throughout the season) as Lampard has started as a coach at Chelsea, I'd 100% be behind him. Out of the two, Lampard is showing more potential. I'd gladly back a manaher who gets us playing good attacking football developing young players regardless of whether we finish 4th of 5th (and that would be giving leeway). But unlike Lampard, whose imprint as visible regardless of results, Ole's are not.
This is true, or like me would rather see Ole take us to new depths of despair if it somehow means we finally kick Woodward into touch, and at last get a credible setup in place at the club.
 

Enigma_87

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This is true, or like me would rather see Ole take us to new depths of despair if it somehow means we finally kick Woodward into touch, and at last get a credible setup in place at the club.
Mate, Woodward isn't going anywhere. He's the CEO and judged on the financials. Financially we're doing ok.

We can be in Championship and he will still be our CEO.
 

MrSingh2002

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Well this is it. It’s not personal and I’m not a fan asking for titles at this stage... but he’s showing me nothing that I believe time can fix. More transfers etc, it’s not going to make a difference. Just like the Moyes appointment. We are hoping on things that can’t be fixed by him.
Spot on. No amount of signings and money could have us playing at a world class level under Ole. Tactically he's nowhere near who he is competing with like Pep, Poch and Klopp.

I'm just glad he's stopped talking about "his philosophy" that was outright cringey.
 

C'est Moi Cantona

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Mate, Woodward isn't going anywhere. He's the CEO and judged on the financials. Financially we're doing ok.

We can be in Championship and he will still be our CEO.
I know, and that's why we're fecked, so Ole might as well just stay and do his thing.

It seems so simple what we need to do, yet so far away.
 

Louis Van Gonads

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Mate, Woodward isn't going anywhere. He's the CEO and judged on the financials. Financially we're doing ok.

We can be in Championship and he will still be our CEO.
I don’t agree with this. Well, I agree we are doing ‘okay’ financially but Woodward has spunked a load of money on poor signings and managerial appointments. We are also set for a sponsorship revenue penalty from Adidas if we don’t qualify for CL. (very likely)

It wouldn’t surprise me if he was replaced but I think it’s more likely he would be removed from footballing decisions.
 

momo83

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To be fair, I hadnt voted because I was a "sack in two months", but I've just voted sack because my view is a near equivalent of sack. Although I'd give him a few months more, I don't see doing enough to changeion by then so I may as well vote.

Thing is, most voting for Ole aren't even doing so because they believe in him but rather because he should be given more time. It's more principal than faith. And that's sad. I'm desparate to see Ole as a good coach but I just dont see it.

If he had performed this season (and carries out throughout the season) as Lampard has started as a coach at Chelsea, I'd 100% be behind him. Out of the two, Lampard is showing more potential. I'd gladly back a manaher who gets us playing good attacking football developing young players regardless of whether we finish 4th of 5th (and that would be giving leeway). But unlike Lampard, whose imprint as visible regardless of results, Ole's are not.
Agree with you fully. Also Lampard been there only a few months, spent £0, lost Hazard, but his coaching and development is apparent. Ole been at OT 10 months and nothing.
 

Leftback99

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Seriously now, why won't it make a difference. This is aimed at a lot of the forum rather than you.

We'd most likely not find anybody as good as Klopp but which of these did he need the "best owners/CEO in the world " to do for him?
  • Signing a well known player in Mane.
  • Signing Robertson who was again well known across England
  • Signing Firmino who was established in Germany as a quality footballer
  • Signing Chamberlain and Lallana
  • Signing VVD from the same league
  • Coaching the players he does have excellently, developing them and building a collective that plays as per his ideas/vision.
Sure we should replace Ed Woodward with somebody who doesn't make three poor managerial appointments. But we have to face the other inconvenient facts too - that the manager DOES matter and great management would improve us greatly.
You're assuming Klopp singlehandedly picked out and scouted all those players. He didn't, Liverpool by many reports have one of the best recruitment/analytics departments in football. There were also stories he didn't even want Salah.
 

vidic blood & sand

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This is the biggest reason Manutd fail. Sentiment.
To be successful we cannot have this sentiment of he was a great player so give him time. No if he is not doing well, get rid.
Sure. While we are at it, lets put all our legends in line for their "deserved" year and see if they can get us beating the likes of Rochdale and AZ.
It's this sort of romanticism that will kill this club. Our transition to 90s Liverpool will be well and truly complete. Has beens holding onto any remnant of past glory to rub in the face of the current successful teams.
You're all heart. Offering a club legend a three year contract and sacking him two months into it?
Bit drastic don't you think? Give him the rest of the season.

Ferguson's first season Utd finished 11th, second season 2nd, third season 11th, fourth season 13th.

In that 89 / 90 season I was chanting for Ferguson to be sacked like everyone else here. Things currently don't look great, but there are no quick fixes. Ole deserves at least a full season.
 

Sir Scott McToMinay

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You're all heart. Offering a club legend a three year contract and sacking him two months into it?
Bit drastic don't you think? Give him the rest of the season.

Ferguson's first season Utd finished 11th, second season 2nd, third season 11th, fourth season 13th.

In that 89 / 90 season I was chanting for Ferguson to be sacked like everyone else here. Things currently don't look great, but there are no quick fixes. Ole deserves at least a full season.
You are right, Ole is the next Ferguson, all he needs is time, as a matter of fact every manager is the next SAF, if he is given time.
All there is to becoming a giant of manager is time, piece of cake, maybe I could become the next SAF if someone gives me time too, there’s nothing more to it.
 

Buchan

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Our next game after Newcastle is against the Vermin. If we don’t get anything on Sunday, I’d sack Solskjaer and get somebody in to prepare us correctly for the Scouse. The Vermin will throttle us if we have another insipid performance there.
 

vidic blood & sand

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You are right, Ole is the next Ferguson, all he needs is time, as a matter of fact every manager is the next SAF, if he is given time.
All there is to becoming a giant of manager is time, piece of cake, maybe I could become the next SAF if someone gives me time too, there’s nothing more to it.
Something to consider is that Ole inherited his backroom staff. Apart from Phelan he is affectively using Mourinho's coaching team, and our playing style is similar to last year.
 

Nikelesh Reddy

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Please give us another option-Sack at the end of the season.I want him out at the end of the season but it doesn’t make much sense to sack him right now....But the way things are going he could be gone by the end of December....Mike Phelan will probably then become our caretaker manager until the end of the season...
 

Lennon7

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No reason to sack him. He's charismatic and intelligent and I can't think of anyone else
 

Andycoleno9

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How Carrick is still there I have no idea.
I said that couple of times. Jose lost control when Faria left and Carrick became as.manager.
As.manager must be tough and Carrick is not that. Against AZ in late minutes of the game there is a situation where he casualy talks with Gomes with hands in his pockets. Wtf, man? It is 0-0, euro game and you are casualy chatting with young player instead yelling, giving advices or something like that.
 

Mainoldo

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You're assuming Klopp singlehandedly picked out and scouted all those players. He didn't, Liverpool by many reports have one of the best recruitment/analytics departments in football. There were also stories he didn't even want Salah.
Yeah they picked Rodgers players too. But not the same results. Why was that?

He probably didn’t want Salah I can believe that. He probably didn’t want Aubamayang too. But he still knows how to coach them.
 

MrSingh2002

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I said that couple of times. Jose lost control when Faria left and Carrick became as.manager.
As.manager must be tough and Carrick is not that. Against AZ in late minutes of the game there is a situation where he casualy talks with Gomes with hands in his pockets. Wtf, man? It is 0-0, euro game and you are casualy chatting with young player instead yelling, giving advices or something like that.
I saw the same thing. Carrick should be pulled up for that. As if we were 5 nil up. No backbone in the current management.
 

Leftback99

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Yeah they picked Rodgers players too. But not the same results. Why was that?

He probably didn’t want Salah I can believe that. He probably didn’t want Aubamayang too. But he still knows how to coach them.
Learning from mistakes. Making changes behind the scenes before and during Klopp's appointment. Michael Edwards their sporting director was promoted just before Klopp arrived. We've got Woodward controlling everything.
 

amolbhatia50k

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You're assuming Klopp singlehandedly picked out and scouted all those players. He didn't, Liverpool by many reports have one of the best recruitment/analytics departments in football. There were also stories he didn't even want Salah.
Klopp's signings were excellent at Dortmund and the same continued at Liverpool. They fit perfectly with his phisilophy, and we're all well known. It's funny. When we want to, we give credit to the manager. I imagine if summer 2019's three signings do veryvery , it'll be all due to our excellent structure?
 

Leftback99

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Klopp's signings were excellent at Dortmund and the same continued at Liverpool. They fit perfectly with his phisilophy, and we're all well known. It's funny. When we want to, we give credit to the manager. I imagine if summer 2019's three signings do veryvery , it'll be all due to our excellent structure?
They've continued to make excellent signings since he left.
 

Amerifan

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Started the week at 60% keep. Now it’s down to 55%. If we lose today it’ll probably flip. Can’t believe a month into the season we’re seriously entertaining sacking a manager.
 

momo83

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Please give us another option-Sack at the end of the season.I want him out at the end of the season but it doesn’t make much sense to sack him right now....But the way things are going he could be gone by the end of December....Mike Phelan will probably then become our caretaker manager until the end of the season...
let’s just hope there is a great turn around but this time fans don’t carried away with #MakeMikePermanentManager
 

Mainoldo

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Learning from mistakes. Making changes behind the scenes before and during Klopp's appointment. Michael Edwards their sporting director was promoted just before Klopp arrived. We've got Woodward controlling everything.
Sounds like convenient excuses. When we get a Klopp type manager you can tell me Ethan Levitt got promoted because of Nicky Butt’s appointment.
 

Leftback99

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Sounds like convenient excuses. When we get a Klopp type manager you can tell me Ethan Levitt got promoted because of Nicky Butt’s appointment.
Fair enough, you keep believing that just bringing Poch in will make everything great again, or maybe a real top manager like Mourinho.
 

ash_86

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Learning from mistakes. Making changes behind the scenes before and during Klopp's appointment. Michael Edwards their sporting director was promoted just before Klopp arrived. We've got Woodward controlling everything.
Absolutely right. People who think Livepool are in a great position just because of Klopp are so far from truth. They revamped their entire structure before that. All these put together is why they are where they are.
 

mango_goal

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With just a decent and average nr9, we would be third in the league right now. So blaming ole for not buying a striker, playing Radford when martial is out, and complaining for us not scoring goals amazes me..
 
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