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In that case you're complimenting him on not being just a poacher. That hardly seems praiseworthy given the vast majority of strikers now do more than goal hang.No, it would mean he's a poacher who doesn't add anything significant to our game apart from goals, just like Chicharito did.
Instead, he's our highest scorer and is greatly involved in the link up play, playing with his back to the goal and bringing the wide men/midfielders in.
If he didn't operate just in the oppo's half (which isn't entirely true though, plenty of times when we switch to 4231 you can see him behind behind the #10 every now and then), people would be complaining that he's dropping too deep like they did when Rooney played #9 and he was constantly in midfield, nowhere to be seen near the box. Unless he possess bilocation abilities, you can't have it all, even more so when speed is, indeed, not one of Ibra's traits.In that case you're complimenting him on not being just a poacher. That hardly seems praiseworthy given the vast majority of strikers now do more than goal hang.
I don't think that's true though anyway. Put Hernandez or whoever up front. They'll get involved in the attacking play (they might not be any good at it) just because of the position they play. Being involved wasn't enough last night.
The problem I have with Zlatan is that he only operates in one half of the pitch. I don't know if anybody else has noticed this but he pretty much only plays on the left hand side of the pitch. I get strikers having a preference but he can go 45mins and never link up with the right hand side. It just makes the attack quite predictable.
I just don't think him being involved or him being our top scorer should be highlighted as a bonus. That's what a lone centre forward should be doing. That's the very least we should expect.If he didn't operate just in the oppo's half (which isn't entirely true though, plenty of times when we switch to 4231 you can see him behind behind the #10 every now and then), people would be complaining that he's dropping too deep like they did when Rooney played #9 and he was constantly in midfield, nowhere to be seen near the box. Unless he possess bilocation abilities, you can't have it all, even more so when speed is, indeed, not one of Ibra's traits.
You say that being involved yesterday wasn't enough but the perception would've changed had we won. The chance he created for Pogba was exactly the type of involvement I'm talking about and not many strikers would pull out, it was down to Pogba's ineptitude that Ibra didn't have an assist there.
As for the left side, you're right, but at the same time you probably can agree that the left side is more flexible/capable of pulling out some combination play due to Pogba playing there, even when Mkhi's playing on the right wing you'll see him drift inwards towards the #10 position when Ibra is either in the box or drifts to the left. Valencia then has all the place on the right, and he needs it if we're to get the most out of him as an attacking fullback.
howProbably definitely most likely another Van Nistelrooy.
I assume it's a reference to the later stages of Nistelrooys career, where he'd score goals but the team as a whole wasn't performing good enough and we looked miles better with a more mobile striker like Saha
i think the whole theory is flawed and anyways Van Nistelrooy was nowhere near as static as Ibra.I assume it's a reference to the later stages of Nistelrooys career, where he'd score goals but the team as a whole wasn't performing good enough and we looked miles better with a more mobile striker like Saha
Similar goal tally. RVP played well in bigger games though and he was younger.Well, he's no Robin Van Persie, that's for sure.
Yeah I agree with this.I assume it's a reference to the later stages of Nistelrooys career, where he'd score goals but the team as a whole wasn't performing good enough and we looked miles better with a more mobile striker like Saha
I get your point about a more fluid attack but I think you're overestimating the ability of Rashford/Martial/Mikhi here. That trio or any other combination of attacking players currently playing for us is nowhere near the level of Ronaldo/Tevez/Rooney. Our attackig players(bar Zlatan) just aren't good enough, any different setup will never change that. They have the talent but in this kind of enviroment, only intsant results matter.Yeah I agree with this.
Zlatan's still a quality striker but, just like RVN in his later years, his lack of pace and mobility slows the team down and restricts the scoring opportunities for other players.
There are clear parallels. Like Zlatan, RVN was a brilliant goalscorer but we fell away as a team during his latter years. Although there were other reasons for that (failure to replace Stam properly, decline of Keane) his static play was surely a factor. It's the same with Zlatan now.
People can say Zlatan is scoring lots of goals, but how many would Martial have scored had he started up front every game? Maybe not as many as Zlatan has got, but surely he'd have been in double figures right now.
Then you've got to factor in the added benefit we'd have as a team. We'd be able to play the fluid attacking game we played with Ronaldo-Rooney-Tevez, pulling defenders all over the place, and oppo defenders would have to drop deeper, creating more space for the likes of Pogba and making it more difficult for teams to press us.
As a centre-half at the level of Maguire/Shawcross/Michael Keane, surely your most desired opponent is a big target man who you can battle with all day. Nippy players constantly moving around are much harder to handle.
None of this is to say Zlatan was a bad signing - he'd be a brilliant option against certain teams. I would just rather Martial was starting ahead of him.
This:
And this:I assume it's a reference to the later stages of Nistelrooys career, where he'd score goals but the team as a whole wasn't performing good enough and we looked miles better with a more mobile striker like Saha
But, unfortunately, also this:Yeah I agree with this.
Zlatan's still a quality striker but, just like RVN in his later years, his lack of pace and mobility slows the team down and restricts the scoring opportunities for other players.
There are clear parallels. Like Zlatan, RVN was a brilliant goalscorer but we fell away as a team during his latter years. Although there were other reasons for that (failure to replace Stam properly, decline of Keane) his static play was surely a factor. It's the same with Zlatan now.
People can say Zlatan is scoring lots of goals, but how many would Martial have scored had he started up front every game? Maybe not as many as Zlatan has got, but surely he'd have been in double figures right now.
Then you've got to factor in the added benefit we'd have as a team. We'd be able to play the fluid attacking game we played with Ronaldo-Rooney-Tevez, pulling defenders all over the place, and oppo defenders would have to drop deeper, creating more space for the likes of Pogba and making it more difficult for teams to press us.
As a centre-half at the level of Maguire/Shawcross/Michael Keane, surely your most desired opponent is a big target man who you can battle with all day. Nippy players constantly moving around are much harder to handle.
None of this is to say Zlatan was a bad signing - he'd be a brilliant option against certain teams. I would just rather Martial was starting ahead of him.
We simply don't have anyone near the level of Young Rooney and Young Ronaldo who we can supplement with a Saha or a Tevez to elevate our team to a whole other level. The team that emerged post Ruud was probably the best United team I ever witnessed though, so it's a hard ask to try and replicate that.I get your point about a more fluid attack but I think you're overestimating the ability of Rashford/Martial/Mikhi here. That trio or any other combination of attacking players currently playing for us is nowhere near the level of Ronaldo/Tevez/Rooney. Our attackig players(bar Zlatan) just aren't good enough, any different setup will never change that. They have the talent but in this kind of enviroment, only intsant results matter.
You can speculate all you want about how many Martial would have scored as a CF, and I see many are fantasizing about this scenario where he turnes into a world beater, leading our attack. But the reality is that he's simply not cutting it, not on LW or let alone CF. In a more realistic scenario he will likely be out in the summer if he doesn't improve.
If this fluid/pacey attacking trio we have available would even be an option, surely Mourinho would have discovered it already.
I'm not so sure about that tbh. Mourinho has played this way his whole career, first with Drogba up front, then Milito, then Benzema, then Drogba/Costa and finally Ibrahimovic. The only 'odd one out' there is Benzema and he's still probably closer to a target man than a drifting, creative striker.I get your point about a more fluid attack but I think you're overestimating the ability of Rashford/Martial/Mikhi here. That trio or any other combination of attacking players currently playing for us is nowhere near the level of Ronaldo/Tevez/Rooney. Our attackig players(bar Zlatan) just aren't good enough, any different setup will never change that. They have the talent but in this kind of enviroment, only intsant results matter.
You can speculate all you want about how many Martial would have scored as a CF, and I see many are fantasizing about this scenario where he turnes into a world beater, leading our attack. But the reality is that he's simply not cutting it, not on LW or let alone CF. In a more realistic scenario he will likely be out in the summer if he doesn't improve.
If this fluid/pacey attacking trio we have available would even be an option, surely Mourinho would have discovered it already.
Yeah, I agree. That's why I see no problem in accommodating Ibrahimovic. Mourinho will replace him with someone in his mold anyway after he leaves, so he will not have to change the system. That's if he's still here by then of course.I'm not so sure about that tbh. Mourinho has played this way his whole career, first with Drogba up front, then Milito, then Benzema, then Drogba/Costa and finally Ibrahimovic. The only 'odd one out' there is Benzema and he's still probably closer to a target man than a drifting, creative striker.
Don't think Mourinho really trusts that fluid attacking system, or has the skill/imagination to coach it.
Personally if I was Mourinho I'd think about bringing Muelensteen back. He was the skills coach when we had that great Ronaldo/Rooney team and he'd surely improve our attacking play.
Yeah. Superb stuff in the first half.Been very good today, winning headers and now got himself a goal.
Eh? His first thirty five minutes were as bad any centre forward play you'll see all season long.Been very good today, winning headers and now got himself a goal.
Watching a different game you.Eh? His first thirty five minutes were as bad any centre forward play you'll see all season long.
Lazy, disinterested, giving it away incessantly.
Agreed. Not sure where he was supposed to have been very good in that first half other than the goal. Dropped deep twice and lost the ball twice.Eh? His first thirty five minutes were as bad any centre forward play you'll see all season long.
Lazy, disinterested, giving it away incessantly. Then he scores... which kind of sums him up.
Certainly not. First thirty were pathetic.Watching a different game you.
I have to agree, but maybe it is a bit harsh. But the difference is we had a chance where our wide player actually made it into the box to square it on a plate for him in the area. We should be making that chance every 4 or 5 attacks with the amount of space we are gifted on the flanks. Nice to see him get a tap in. We need more of those clear cut chances for him.Eh? His first thirty five minutes were as bad any centre forward play you'll see all season long.
Lazy, disinterested, giving it away incessantly. Then he scores... which kind of sums him up.
Obviously.Can't help but feel if we replaced him with Costa or Suarez or Aguero and still had Mkhitaryan and Martial on the wings, we'd be a lot better for it. Sorry, just can't shake that feeling.
The team was slow in the first period of the game, and we struggled badly as a team, he was part of those issues.Certainly not. First thirty were pathetic.
What did you expect?Eh? His first thirty five minutes were as bad any centre forward play you'll see all season long.
Lazy, disinterested, giving it away incessantly. Then he scores... which kind of sums him up.
The formation hasn't really got anything to do with giving the ball away cheaply.What did you expect?
Shockingly Zlatan is a better player when he's supported, gets given the ball, and has plays around him. To criticise him, or Rashford for that matter, for their performance before we changed formation is massively missing the point.
Honestly I think the fact people care about this is ridiculous.The formation hasn't really got anything to do with giving the ball away cheaply.
You're spot on. He's doing a Rooney or a Ruud.. he's our saviour yet a problem in equal measure. Scoring goals but he definitely is an issue for our build up play. He shouldn't be a starter next year if we want to go for the title.Certainly not. First thirty were pathetic.
Not true he was giving the ball away when he was trying to hit simple wall passes. He's actually more better when he takes risks and is proactive with the ball.Honestly I think the fact people care about this is ridiculous.
We've had two seasons of players not taking risks and playing the simple pass simply to keep possession then Zlatan gets criticised for giving the ball away despite the fact that he's almost always trying to make something happen.
Pick which one you want. I know which I prefer.
If we're gonna go for a title we'll need miles better wingers than Rashford & Mata, and once Zlatan has that, he'll be miles better himself.You're spot on. He's doing a Rooney or a Ruud.. he's our saviour yet a problem in equal measure. Scoring goals but he definitely is an issue for our build up play. He shouldn't be a starter next year if we want to go for the title.
